Apparently Sugarbush has added some new program called "Backcountry's Doorstep" for all those adventure-seeking tourists and whatnot... anyway, I was browsing the site describing the program, and it mentions "unlimited access" to "famous backcountry terrain like Bear Claw, the Church, and Slidebrook..."

Bear Claw? Where the hell is Bear Claw? And why have I never heard of it?



Oh, site URL is http://sugarbush.com/content.aspx?id=197#s10 if anyone is interested...

I think it would be best to take this discussion, as they say "off line".

One thing we should try to avoid doing here is revealing names and locations of BC runs. People spend a lot of time and effort creating these things and it's not fair to reveal their existence and location on a public forum like this. I'd much rather show you in person.

I'm well aware of the situation Tin, I just thought I'd see if it was actually a known location... I've been on forums such as these for quite a long time and heard about quite a few things, but never Bear Claw... I mean, I'm just surprised that if it's universally well known enough to appear on the very public Sugarbush website (didn't exactly reveal anything now did I... ), I think I would've at least seen someone mention it at some point... guess not.

Strat wrote:

I'm well aware of the situation Tin, I just thought I'd see if it was actually a known location... I've been on forums such as these for quite a long time and heard about quite a few things, but never Bear Claw... I mean, I'm just surprised that if it's universally well known enough to appear on the very public Sugarbush website (didn't exactly reveal anything now did I... ), I think I would've at least seen someone mention it at some point... guess not.

No worries. And I didn't think you'd revealed anything, especially given that the Bear Claw name i on their website. I was just trying to dissaude anyone from responding publicly with any level of detail.

I've never heard of it either. Now I'm curious...

Been lurking on this site for a while and decided to post. The one thing I have noticed since lurking so often is that STRAT is very interested in where the BC "stashes" are? Unfortunately, these days ski areas have been pushing "gladed/bc" runs and now many of the so called "stashes" are no more. Tin Woodsman is right! Many people spend time searching out these lift served stashes. Or even better, skinning/hiking to earn turns. Strat, how about stop asking questions on a public forum and go serching for someone "in the know". Maybe they will show you? Or better yet take the "Backcountry Doorstep"!

Abe Froman wrote:

Been lurking on this site for a while and decided to post. The one thing I have noticed since lurking so often is that STRAT is very interested in where the BC "stashes" are? Unfortunately, these days ski areas have been pushing "gladed/bc" runs and now many of the so called "stashes" are no more. Tin Woodsman is right! Many people spend time searching out these lift served stashes. Or even better, skinning/hiking to earn turns. Strat, how about stop asking questions on a public forum and go serching for someone "in the know". Maybe they will show you? Or better yet take the "Backcountry Doorstep"!

The Sausage King of Chicago ?

Yep, that's Me!

I've always found the "secret stash" topic very comical. I love all the posts defending keeping them off sites such as this but now that the mtn is offering them at a $fee, why not disclose? What's the difference between someone reading it here or paying a guide to take them besides the $$$$.

Trust me-I know my abilities and you could draw me a treasure map with a big X marks the spot on the Church, Bear Claw, and every other triple secret location-and I'm not skiing them because I value my health. But if people want to know, wasn't the internet designed to disseminate "free" information.

From now on I'm not responding to questions about good places to eat in the Valley because I don't want those places to get too crowded, or someone to eat food that's too hot and could hurt themselves. If you want to know a good place to eat or hang out you should spend some time talking to locals.

weishuhn53 wrote:

I've always found the "secret stash" topic very comical. I love all the posts defending keeping them off sites such as this but now that the mtn is offering them at a $fee, why not disclose? What's the difference between someone reading it here or paying a guide to take them besides the $$$$. Trust me-I know my abilities and you could draw me a treasure map with a big X marks the spot on the Church, Bear Claw, and every other triple secret location-and I'm not skiing them because I value my health. But if people want to know, wasn't the internet designed to disseminate "free" information. From now on I'm not responding to questions about good places to eat in the Valley because I don't want those places to get too crowded, or someone to eat food that's too hot and could hurt themselves. If you want to know a good place to eat or hang out you should spend some time talking to locals.

There's a big difference between the example you cite and that of "secret stashes". You could go to a great secret restaurant with a group of 3 friends and be pretty much assured of not having to worry about them running out of food or ambience, especially in the MRV. The same doesn't apply for BC runs. They are a depletable resource in that many of these runs can handle only 3-4 skiers before they get tracked out. When you further consider the amount of time people spen creating these lines, it's common courtesy not to disseminate such information in a public forum such as this. Everyone knows the Church. It's quite clear that not everyone knows Bear Claw given the responses in this thread. If you want to find out, either pay the fee for the tour or find someone who will take you there.

I find the discussion of "stashes" hillarious too! Especially when someone uses a restraunt analogy! TW is right they are depleatable. I alluded to that in my post. It is kind of an unspoken rule if you will. Show but don't tell.

I would like to elaborate on Abe's "show don't tell" policy. Since we are using analogies I will too:

I see this kind of debate in mtn. biking too. For example some trails are on and can be accessed by public land. Therefore, there are maps showing what trails go where. Now, when a mtn. bike advocacy group/ club asks private land owners/managers to access some of their land, this can take a while. Once permission and trail building is achieved anybody can ride these trails. Now out of respect for the groups hard work you don't start posting where these areas are. You "show" others who will enjoy and treat these trails with the same respect. You don't want your land privileges revoked?

This is a stretch. But maybe this can happen on the mtn. too? I did say it was a stretch

I'm pretty sure it's a Killington trail, at the bottom of Bear Mtn. Curious why Sugarbush is pushing it.

Abe Froman wrote:

Been lurking on this site for a while and decided to post. The one thing I have noticed since lurking so often is that STRAT is very interested in where the BC "stashes" are? Unfortunately, these days ski areas have been pushing "gladed/bc" runs and now many of the so called "stashes" are no more. Tin Woodsman is right! Many people spend time searching out these lift served stashes. Or even better, skinning/hiking to earn turns. Strat, how about stop asking questions on a public forum and go serching for someone "in the know". Maybe they will show you? Or better yet take the "Backcountry Doorstep"!

I'm just interested Abe. You'll never find me actually riding these stashes/glades/lines/what have you (at least not for quite some time). I don't claim to be a good enough snowboarder to be capable of flying through a tight chute or dropping a 5 or 10 foot cliff. I just think it's really cool that somewhere out there in the forest there is a meticulously-cut path through the trees, in the midst of acres of untouched woodland... and I enjoy looking up at that huge mountain and reveling in the knowledge that someone has skied along a path somewhere way up there, and the fact that I know where it is... I feel more of a connection to the mountain when I consider myself one of the enlightened few who is aware of its secrets... it's a bit of a pride thing I suppose, but if I'm not running around the base area shouting out where these things are, there's no harm done, right?

I don't really recall when I've posted on this forum about "stashes" in the past, but I have been interested in such things since I first heard of the Church on the RSN forums a long ways back... this Bear Claw question was prompted simply because I consider myself somewhat in the know of the more well-known named "stashes" at Sugarbush, and I was just surprised that I'd never heard of it...

I, like Strat, am curious about all of these hidden gems that lie out in the woods beyond my vision. I would love to try to ski some of the runs but am not comfortable venturing off into the woods without an experienced individual leading me. I also respect the work that people put into these runs and the need for a level of privacy about there whereabouts.

I spoke to an instructor a week ago and asked him about the Church, Hughies and the Wedding Trail. He found it somewhat amusing that there was all this chatter about trails he has skied and or cut with friends, for the last 20 years and said he would gladly take me when conditions warrant(Christmas week was definitely not the right time). With the absence of friends "in the know" I probably will have to "pay" to have someone take me to some of these places (ability permitting). Personally I do not think this is "poaching" other peoples private stashes because, Sugarbush is marketing them and the trails are on Gov't lands. But again, I will not broadcast there locale over the internet out of "respect" to those that developed and discovered the runs.