Lostone wrote:

This turned into a giant hijack! Split the operating system comments from the Website thread Please continue comments on the Sugarbush website, here, in the Sugarbush section. Please continue comments on operating systems here. Hopefully, I made the split fairly well, but it drifted, as opposed to switched. Thanx for your support.

Lostone wrote:

Quote: For some fun reading on the issues... That is FUN???? You won't believe how good my life has suddenly appeared, in perspective. I'm also using Firefox. I'm really happy IE has finally caught on to tabbed browsers. Only took them around 7 years? I'm probably unable to upgrade to the latest IE, anyway. I'm running Win98SE. I can't upgrade to the latest browsers as they require me to throw away this perfectly operating (OK... for a Windows machine) computer and buy another. It ain't happening! So I'll have to struggle with Firefox... which helped teach Billy that he needed tabbed browsers... years ago. And for the record, I also see the web page as very distorted with a long blank panel on the left. I don't think it was like that, yesterday.

hehehe, well my wife does always say I am not quite right...she also informs me that reading tech manuals is not the same as 'real' reading.

She is also limping along with an old Dell laptop running Win98 which I just battled with to add a wireless card. Works great but one thing you see right off is that the native resolution is not conducive to reading a lot of newer sites. Something designed to work best at 1024x768 makes you scroll like crazy (but it does work).


jkvt

If she is using the laptop as a traveling tool, she's kinda stuck. But if she is using it in a specific location, you might consider an external monitor.

Before moving up here, I was bringing up my notebook, but I left an LCD monitor, an external keyboard and a mouse, up here. (Kinda like a docking station?) It was so much easier to just use the notebook as a traveling harddrive and CPU, but have the functionality of a desktop. And ability to see the monitor was quite important.

Lostone wrote:

If she is using the laptop as a traveling tool, she's kinda stuck. But if she is using it in a specific location, you might consider an external monitor. Before moving up here, I was bringing up my notebook, but I left an LCD monitor, an external keyboard and a mouse, up here. (Kinda like a docking station?) It was so much easier to just use the notebook as a traveling harddrive and CPU, but have the functionality of a desktop. And ability to see the monitor was quite important.

She uses it mostly for writing and some research, when she wants to really surf she gets on my G5 with the 21in. CRT. Ahhhh I love the real estate it has.

jkvt

noski wrote:

skibum1321 wrote: Does anyone else notice a big gap between the top navigation and the content. I reported that issue myself. I learned that if you upgrade your browser to IE 7 (I had IE 6) it is no longer an issue.... Neither should it be an issue in Mozilla or Firefox.... I like the new IE 7 with the tabbed windows.

It was an issue in Firefox since that was the browser that I'm using. I hate IE 6 (and 7 for that matter)...

jkvt wrote:

My advice, if the criticism is to be constructive, is to let them know which browser and OS you are using and the problems you find. Every browser handles code differently and IE is the biggest culprit of this as the browser is very integrated into many back end products. jkvt

Definitely disagree with you there - this may have been an acceptable approach at the turn of the century, but it is definitely not these days. That is a very amateur approach to dealing with the issues. The best way is to build the site with graceful degradation - the latest browsers get the best experience, but it still works in the older browsers. I'm not saying they need to support IE 5, but at least IE 6 (there are ways to get around almost every CSS issue in IE 6).

Ok, now that we all know that I'm a huge web development dork, back to our regular discussions...

skibum1321 wrote:

jkvt wrote: My advice, if the criticism is to be constructive, is to let them know which browser and OS you are using and the problems you find. Every browser handles code differently and IE is the biggest culprit of this as the browser is very integrated into many back end products. jkvt Definitely disagree with you there - this may have been an acceptable approach at the turn of the century, but it is definitely not these days. That is a very amateur approach to dealing with the issues. The best way is to build the site with graceful degradation - the latest browsers get the best experience, but it still works in the older browsers. I'm not saying they need to support IE 5, but at least IE 6 (there are ways to get around almost every CSS issue in IE 6). Ok, now that we all know that I'm a huge web development dork, back to our regular discussions...

I agree that you should develop and test first- and even if you do not have a variety of browsers to test on there are sites out there which will do it for you. But, knowing if someone is having trouble on Win95 and Netscape 2 is different than someone using Vista and IE7. My comment about constructive criticism was more an attempt to not go down the road of "this sucks" name calling but to help them to get it better. I guess I have seen so many threads (on other lists) get negative and name-cally.

jkvt

skibum1321 wrote:

jkvt wrote: My advice, if the criticism is to be constructive, is to let them know which browser and OS you are using and the problems you find. Every browser handles code differently and IE is the biggest culprit of this as the browser is very integrated into many back end products. jkvt Definitely disagree with you there - this may have been an acceptable approach at the turn of the century, but it is definitely not these days. That is a very amateur approach to dealing with the issues. The best way is to build the site with graceful degradation - the latest browsers get the best experience, but it still works in the older browsers. I'm not saying they need to support IE 5, but at least IE 6 (there are ways to get around almost every CSS issue in IE 6). Ok, now that we all know that I'm a huge web development dork, back to our regular discussions...

How about ignoring IE until Microsoft decides to follow standards?

kcyanks1 wrote:

skibum1321 wrote: jkvt wrote: My advice, if the criticism is to be constructive, is to let them know which browser and OS you are using and the problems you find. Every browser handles code differently and IE is the biggest culprit of this as the browser is very integrated into many back end products. jkvt Definitely disagree with you there - this may have been an acceptable approach at the turn of the century, but it is definitely not these days. That is a very amateur approach to dealing with the issues. The best way is to build the site with graceful degradation - the latest browsers get the best experience, but it still works in the older browsers. I'm not saying they need to support IE 5, but at least IE 6 (there are ways to get around almost every CSS issue in IE 6). Ok, now that we all know that I'm a huge web development dork, back to our regular discussions... How about ignoring IE until Microsoft decides to follow standards?

Amen and Glory Be!

I think that's all I have to say on the issue.

kcyanks1 wrote:

skibum1321 wrote: jkvt wrote: My advice, if the criticism is to be constructive, is to let them know which browser and OS you are using and the problems you find. Every browser handles code differently and IE is the biggest culprit of this as the browser is very integrated into many back end products. jkvt Definitely disagree with you there - this may have been an acceptable approach at the turn of the century, but it is definitely not these days. That is a very amateur approach to dealing with the issues. The best way is to build the site with graceful degradation - the latest browsers get the best experience, but it still works in the older browsers. I'm not saying they need to support IE 5, but at least IE 6 (there are ways to get around almost every CSS issue in IE 6). Ok, now that we all know that I'm a huge web development dork, back to our regular discussions... How about ignoring IE until Microsoft decides to follow standards?

I wish ... Most of the sites that I frequent (tech sites) have a majority of users on Firefox, Safari and Opera, but this certainly isn't the case for most mainstream sites, especially the Bush.

skibum1321 wrote:

kcyanks1 wrote: skibum1321 wrote: jkvt wrote: My advice, if the criticism is to be constructive, is to let them know which browser and OS you are using and the problems you find. Every browser handles code differently and IE is the biggest culprit of this as the browser is very integrated into many back end products. jkvt Definitely disagree with you there - this may have been an acceptable approach at the turn of the century, but it is definitely not these days. That is a very amateur approach to dealing with the issues. The best way is to build the site with graceful degradation - the latest browsers get the best experience, but it still works in the older browsers. I'm not saying they need to support IE 5, but at least IE 6 (there are ways to get around almost every CSS issue in IE 6). Ok, now that we all know that I'm a huge web development dork, back to our regular discussions... How about ignoring IE until Microsoft decides to follow standards? I wish ... Most of the sites that I frequent (tech sites) have a majority of users on Firefox, Safari and Opera, but this certainly isn't the case for most mainstream sites, especially the Bush.

I'd really like to see the web stats. It would be interesting to see the browser breakdown.

BushMogulMaster wrote:

kcyanks1 wrote: How about ignoring IE until Microsoft decides to follow standards? Amen and Glory Be! I think that's all I have to say on the issue.

Oh, come on, we can say more .. How about ignoring Microsoft completely? (I'm a Linux-user at home, unfortunately not one at work.)

kcyanks1 wrote:

BushMogulMaster wrote: kcyanks1 wrote: How about ignoring IE until Microsoft decides to follow standards? Amen and Glory Be! I think that's all I have to say on the issue. Oh, come on, we can say more .. How about ignoring Microsoft completely? (I'm a Linux-user at home, unfortunately not one at work.)

I dual boot, for compatibility reasons. If everything worked in Linux, I'd drop MS entirely. But I spent an entire day in a console editing code and trying to get my wireless card to work. I swear to you, it's impossible. So I keep Windows on here for wireless purposes.

BushMogulMaster wrote:

kcyanks1 wrote: BushMogulMaster wrote: kcyanks1 wrote: How about ignoring IE until Microsoft decides to follow standards? Amen and Glory Be! I think that's all I have to say on the issue. Oh, come on, we can say more .. How about ignoring Microsoft completely? (I'm a Linux-user at home, unfortunately not one at work.) I dual boot, for compatibility reasons. If everything worked in Linux, I'd drop MS entirely. But I spent an entire day in a console editing code and trying to get my wireless card to work. I swear to you, it's impossible. So I keep Windows on here for wireless purposes.

On my previous laptop I never got my wireless card working. I got a new laptop in August '06 with built-in wireless and it worked right away.

kcyanks1 wrote:

BushMogulMaster wrote: kcyanks1 wrote: How about ignoring IE until Microsoft decides to follow standards? Amen and Glory Be! I think that's all I have to say on the issue. Oh, come on, we can say more .. How about ignoring Microsoft completely? (I'm a Linux-user at home, unfortunately not one at work.)

If only it were possible to ignore them completely. They have such a stranglehold on the tech world that it will never happen.
Just an example of Microsoft technology that I use regularly:
Windows (at work and home)
Internet Explorer (to test my websites after developing in Firefox)
.NET framework
Visual Studio
Visio
Office

I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting too... I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but I have to admit that there are certain things that I like. Visual Studio is pretty nice and I really like C# as a language. Then I see their browsers and OSs and it makes me want to gag.

skibum1321 wrote:

If only it were possible to ignore them completely. They have such a stranglehold on the tech world that it will never happen.

You wanna talk strangleholds?
How about wcvt?
When are we going to outlaw monopolies in the Valley?
I think a little competition would do us a world of good.
We have more than one ski area. More than one restaurant(for now). More than one hardware store. More than one grocery store.

????