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Fishwife
01-11-2010, 10:24 AM
Any Blazer parents out there attend the meeting this past Saturday? What was discussed? Was it TOP SECRET?! I have 2 kids in Blazers and knew nothing of this meeting...........

muddy_hollow
01-11-2010, 10:38 AM
The meeting invite went out late Friday afternoon, which for most people who travel Friday evenings is a waste of time unless you're like me and wired in until the badlands of NH and VT without 3G coverage... then it takes that extra couple seconds to download email.... :(

I'm curious about what people thought of the meeting as well. I got my info second hand on Sunday, but from what I can remember it was all about no more hot chocolate for the kids... oh and Egan is the brand.

I suspect there might be more.

For the record, we're very pleased with my daughters Blazer coach this year. Solid instructor.

Mt St Pipier
01-11-2010, 04:54 PM
Attended, with no axe. New to the program. Have two kids in mini-Blazers who are enjoying it and getting better every day. Win started off and spoke a few times in the meeting. He's clearly committed to the programs and to making sure customers are happy. Runs the program at a loss, but knows how important it is to the whole puzzle. Many of the staff were there. In fact, more folks from Sugarbush than parents, if that says anything.

Bill and Mickey talked about the different personnel and programs. Challenge is to combine the Egan-esque experience of old with a PSIA certified program on-piste. Q&A seemed to reveal frustration from some of the parents about communication, some of the curriculum, group sizes or mixing. Some valid concerns, most of which could be addressed using better organizing and communication. Some parental helicoptering, but that's today's world unfortunately.

My take: Win is committed to addressing concerns. Until better lines of communications are established, people should talk to Bill or the kids' coaches / coordinators and reflect concerns / issues. Everyone seems to get that the key is to make sure the kids are having fun.

WWF-VT
01-11-2010, 05:09 PM
Thanks for the information about the meeting. I don't think many parents were aware of the meeting based upon the late time that the invitation was sent on Friday.

HowieT2
01-11-2010, 05:39 PM
I was there for most of it. I got an e-mail about it without the meeting time although I learned later in the day when it was going to be.
there were complaints about communication which has been admittedly weak.
There was a question about the adventure blazers and how it was different than snow blazers. It was my understanding, and that of the questioner, that adventure blazers was for kids who wanted to do more off piste skiing. Evidently, Mickey views adventure blazers as the next step for the more advanced skiers. while I find that troubling, my son's coach this season has been having them ski the woods most of the time, and they have been doing so more than last year.

I think a major problem is that Mickey is filling the very large shoes of general atkinson. That's a tough challenge. No offense to Mickey, who I don't know, but he doesn't seem to have the personality for it.

There was also a suggestion for the creation of a parents group. that would be great because there should be more blazer events outside of ski time, which SB can facilitate but parents should run.

007
01-11-2010, 08:38 PM
I was there for most of it. I got an e-mail about it without the meeting time although I learned later in the day when it was going to be.
there were complaints about communication which has been admittedly weak.
There was a question about the adventure blazers and how it was different than snow blazers. It was my understanding, and that of the questioner, that adventure blazers was for kids who wanted to do more off piste skiing. Evidently, Mickey views adventure blazers as the next step for the more advanced skiers. while I find that troubling, my son's coach this season has been having them ski the woods most of the time, and they have been doing so more than last year.

I think a major problem is that Mickey is filling the very large shoes of general atkinson. That's a tough challenge. No offense to Mickey, who I don't know, but he doesn't seem to have the personality for it.

There was also a suggestion for the creation of a parents group. that would be great because there should be more blazer events outside of ski time, which SB can facilitate but parents should run.

Atkinson's "shoes", knowledge, passion, and skill set are quite unique in the ski industry, and you hit the nail on the head (no offense Mickey) that those shoes are best fitted to the rightful owner.
A Blazer Parent group with regular feedback and open discussion with management is an excellent and practical idea that should be taking place before the season begins as well as throughout; hopefully [they] listened and adopt that routine interaction between parents and management.
The Blazer Coaches at Sugarbush are also HIGHLY skilled, trained extremely well, and are rather unique themselves in the ski industry; their programs are poised to become a significant shift in skier enhancement as well as advanced mountain travel training.
From what I hear it definitely sounds like Win has a much clearer picture of all this; and it's just a matter of time before the organic growth takes off to be something really noteworthy throughout the country and maybe the world.

castlerock
01-11-2010, 09:56 PM
......... Win started off and spoke a few times .....Runs the program at a loss, but......

ROFLMAO! I have no copies of the corporate spreadheets, but...... I do know how rates have exploded over the past four years.......I also know that the benefits for the coaches have gone the other way....

I can't recall a mid season parents meeting like this in the four years my kids were in the program....Something is rotten in Denmark!

muddy_hollow
01-12-2010, 07:06 AM
[quote=HowieT2]

From what I hear it definitely sounds like Win has a much clearer picture of all this; and it's just a matter of time before the organic growth takes off to be something really noteworthy throughout the country and maybe the world.

The blazer team size that my daughter is on seems right and the coach (E.G.) is excellent. But part of the draw into the program was, for lack of a one word sound bit, genuine/authentic, no-frills, back to simpler times for your kid. That whole Vermont thing (real or otherwise) which we all migrate to the Bush and to the valley for every weekend for.

The helicopter parents are itching to get their fingers into the program and stalk their coaches to make sure Johnnie or Susie is working hardest. As soon as they start parents groups and coach help programs.....that will take the spirit right out of the mix and will be the end of my funding of the program. I come to Sugarbush to give my kids some freedom and let her explore being a skier with a coach who is interested in seeing her improve her skills. I don't need some Boston suburb mom quoting some BS health and safety regulation, designing blazer polo shirts, or asking for splenda in the hot chocolate.

Keep it simple, keep it edgy, keep the parents out of the program.

Hawk
01-12-2010, 07:13 AM
What's a "helicopter parent"?

muddy_hollow
01-12-2010, 07:28 AM
What's a "helicopter parent"?

In my experience it's a parent who hover around their kids and every program they're part. Never being happy with the program and always out to save the program for their kid and all the others, whether needed or not!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_Parents

Parent groups and coach help programs....... what's next, bake sales and selling pencils?


Keep it simple, keep it edgy, keep the parents out

007
01-12-2010, 08:14 AM
Parents + management mixing together is good (for the moment), but micromanaging heli-parent + coach mixing would never work. Coaches need independence for an adventure learning program to be successful.

Hawk
01-12-2010, 08:15 AM
Ahhh. I know the very beast you speak of. Only in my experience they were from NYC. :wink:

Hawk
01-12-2010, 08:35 AM
I have an observation for you guys to consider. Keep in mind that you can't make everybody happy all the time. This whole issue is a huge balancing act for the Ski School. I have many friends that work for the Ski School and listening to them is a whole different perspective. I have heard the term "to many cooks" lately. You have the opinions of the senior management, the ski school director, the old guard, the avid woods parents (new school), the PSIA parents (old School) and various others. Something has to give. A little understanding will go a long way. In the end I think the individual groups sort themselves out as the relationship between the individual instructors and the kids develops. I think hard and fast rules just make alot of people unhappy. Flexibility is what made the program in the past. They shouldn't lose sight of this.

gone.skiing
01-12-2010, 08:56 AM
MH, with all due respect I think you are going off a deep end here...

By the same logic, win and his team should blow off this board and neither communicate nor listen to customers on the hill. After all we are all here for VT experience and they know better.

Fishwife
01-12-2010, 09:16 AM
Please don't tell me that the reason the kids do't get Hot Cocoa any more is because of the sugar?! Or maybe because little susuie and Johnny spill it all over their impeccable outfits?! As a mom, I am very familiar with the "heli- parent" , and try my hardest to have nothing to do with that style of parenting. I would have liked to be present at the meeting to stand up for the coaches that my kids have had over the past 4 years in the Blazer program because I think they are definitely not appreciated by the new regime. (Win not included) If the program is at a record level , why are they trying so hard to steer it in a new direction? We enroll our kids in the program not because we don't want to ski with them but because we know that their coach will provide them with a completely unique experience that will hopefully feed their love for the mountains and Vermont that my husband and I have. The stuff that my kids skied last year and so far this year is nothing that other kids at other mountains are skiing as far as I know and their coach always practices more safety than I as a parent does. As a direct effect of the skills and confidence they have learned thru skiing with their coach I am now following them thru the woods not because I have to but because they are killing it!!!! AND loving every minute of it! And Mickey is definitely not Jon Atkinson, but he seems to be a nice guy so let's all give him the benefit of the doubt. (That's the mom in me coming through 8)

gone.skiing
01-12-2010, 09:19 AM
Forget Hot Cocoa, bring in Red Bull...

win
01-12-2010, 08:35 PM
For those that were not there, there will be follow-up communications. Mid-Season meeting was because come parents had raised some concerns and we wanted to hear them and address them. Sorry for the short notice on this meeting. We plan other Blazer parent get togethers. This program has grown and is a vital one for us. Agree that we have great coaches. I also feel very lucky to also have Egan and McGinty and the other leadership team in ski & ride and a pro like John Atkinson who is now will us all year.

HowieT2
01-12-2010, 09:04 PM
[quote=HowieT2]

From what I hear it definitely sounds like Win has a much clearer picture of all this; and it's just a matter of time before the organic growth takes off to be something really noteworthy throughout the country and maybe the world.

The blazer team size that my daughter is on seems right and the coach (E.G.) is excellent. But part of the draw into the program was, for lack of a one word sound bit, genuine/authentic, no-frills, back to simpler times for your kid. That whole Vermont thing (real or otherwise) which we all migrate to the Bush and to the valley for every weekend for.

The helicopter parents are itching to get their fingers into the program and stalk their coaches to make sure Johnnie or Susie is working hardest. As soon as they start parents groups and coach help programs.....that will take the spirit right out of the mix and will be the end of my funding of the program. I come to Sugarbush to give my kids some freedom and let her explore being a skier with a coach who is interested in seeing her improve her skills. I don't need some Boston suburb mom quoting some BS health and safety regulation, designing blazer polo shirts, or asking for splenda in the hot chocolate.

Keep it simple, keep it edgy, keep the parents out of the program.

My thoughts about a parent committee is to make it possible to have some non ski events for blazer kids. Other than the end of season award ceremony, where SB buys some pizzas and the kids watch a slide show, there isn't anything organized for the kids after the lifts close. The Gatehouse sits empty most saturday nights and would be a good venue for a party, movie night or what not. I can see the kids upstairs with some entertainment and the parents down in the CRP. this is not something SB and or the coaches should pay for or be responsible for, but parents could easily take care of. It would further the goal of the strengthening the community aspect of the program and most importantly, be fun. I also think it would be great to have a summer/fall blazer get together at the mtn (another excuse for me to come to the mtn).

As for helicoptor parents, I see no evidence of that and those on this board who know me and my wife, know how far from that we are.

HowieT2
01-12-2010, 09:14 PM
Please don't tell me that the reason the kids do't get Hot Cocoa any more is because of the sugar?! Or maybe because little susuie and Johnny spill it all over their impeccable outfits?! As a mom, I am very familiar with the "heli- parent" , and try my hardest to have nothing to do with that style of parenting. I would have liked to be present at the meeting to stand up for the coaches that my kids have had over the past 4 years in the Blazer program because I think they are definitely not appreciated by the new regime. (Win not included) If the program is at a record level , why are they trying so hard to steer it in a new direction? We enroll our kids in the program not because we don't want to ski with them but because we know that their coach will provide them with a completely unique experience that will hopefully feed their love for the mountains and Vermont that my husband and I have. The stuff that my kids skied last year and so far this year is nothing that other kids at other mountains are skiing as far as I know and their coach always practices more safety than I as a parent does. As a direct effect of the skills and confidence they have learned thru skiing with their coach I am now following them thru the woods not because I have to but because they are killing it!!!! AND loving every minute of it! And Mickey is definitely not Jon Atkinson, but he seems to be a nice guy so let's all give him the benefit of the doubt. (That's the mom in me coming through 8)

I don't know that this had anything to do with the hot cocoa ban, but last year there was an incident in the gatehouse late one afternoon, where a non blazer kid spilled on himself suffering pretty serious burns to his arm. My daughter witnessed the aftermath and saw the kids skin sloughing off his arm. My understanding is that he had second degree burns and was rushed to the hospital.

Strat
01-12-2010, 10:46 PM
Please don't tell me that the reason the kids do't get Hot Cocoa any more is because of the sugar?! Or maybe because little susuie and Johnny spill it all over their impeccable outfits?! As a mom, I am very familiar with the "heli- parent" , and try my hardest to have nothing to do with that style of parenting. I would have liked to be present at the meeting to stand up for the coaches that my kids have had over the past 4 years in the Blazer program because I think they are definitely not appreciated by the new regime. (Win not included) If the program is at a record level , why are they trying so hard to steer it in a new direction? We enroll our kids in the program not because we don't want to ski with them but because we know that their coach will provide them with a completely unique experience that will hopefully feed their love for the mountains and Vermont that my husband and I have. The stuff that my kids skied last year and so far this year is nothing that other kids at other mountains are skiing as far as I know and their coach always practices more safety than I as a parent does. As a direct effect of the skills and confidence they have learned thru skiing with their coach I am now following them thru the woods not because I have to but because they are killing it!!!! AND loving every minute of it! And Mickey is definitely not Jon Atkinson, but he seems to be a nice guy so let's all give him the benefit of the doubt. (That's the mom in me coming through 8)

I don't know that this had anything to do with the hot cocoa ban, but last year there was an incident in the gatehouse late one afternoon, where a non blazer kid spilled on himself suffering pretty serious burns to his arm. My daughter witnessed the aftermath and saw the kids skin sloughing off his arm. My understanding is that he had second degree burns and was rushed to the hospital.
*cringe*
Yeesh Howie, was that graphic description necessary?

HowieT2
01-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Please don't tell me that the reason the kids do't get Hot Cocoa any more is because of the sugar?! Or maybe because little susuie and Johnny spill it all over their impeccable outfits?! As a mom, I am very familiar with the "heli- parent" , and try my hardest to have nothing to do with that style of parenting. I would have liked to be present at the meeting to stand up for the coaches that my kids have had over the past 4 years in the Blazer program because I think they are definitely not appreciated by the new regime. (Win not included) If the program is at a record level , why are they trying so hard to steer it in a new direction? We enroll our kids in the program not because we don't want to ski with them but because we know that their coach will provide them with a completely unique experience that will hopefully feed their love for the mountains and Vermont that my husband and I have. The stuff that my kids skied last year and so far this year is nothing that other kids at other mountains are skiing as far as I know and their coach always practices more safety than I as a parent does. As a direct effect of the skills and confidence they have learned thru skiing with their coach I am now following them thru the woods not because I have to but because they are killing it!!!! AND loving every minute of it! And Mickey is definitely not Jon Atkinson, but he seems to be a nice guy so let's all give him the benefit of the doubt. (That's the mom in me coming through 8)

I don't know that this had anything to do with the hot cocoa ban, but last year there was an incident in the gatehouse late one afternoon, where a non blazer kid spilled on himself suffering pretty serious burns to his arm. My daughter witnessed the aftermath and saw the kids skin sloughing off his arm. My understanding is that he had second degree burns and was rushed to the hospital.
*cringe*
Yeesh Howie, was that graphic description necessary?

Just sayin'

gone.skiing
01-13-2010, 01:02 PM
How hard one really needs to try to make sure somebody like Fishwife is not aware of the meeting? She is only on the hill from open till close... Put a note into event calendar on the website, add it to snow report web page, add it to snow phone message, put it up on the screen in Gate House lodge, make announcement in Gate House lodge, ask coaches to tell parents at drop off/pick up. None of these would have cost anything and got the message across. Somehow I know all the names of helmet lottery winners w/o even trying. Does McGinty not want parents there?

PS: In all seriousness, please leave the hot chocolate alone!!! What else are kids supposed to do when it is -20 outside. If you don't want your kids drinking it, tell them and they can communicate it to the coach.

sgottmann
01-13-2010, 08:16 PM
How hard one really needs to try to make sure somebody like Fishwife is not aware of the meeting? She is only on the hill from open till close... Put a note into event calendar on the website, add it to snow report web page, add it to snow phone message, put it up on the screen in Gate House lodge, make announcement in Gate House lodge, ask coaches to tell parents at drop off/pick up. None of these would have cost anything and got the message across. Somehow I know all the names of helmet lottery winners w/o even trying. Does McGinty not want parents there?

PS: In all seriousness, please leave the hot chocolate alone!!! What else are kids supposed to do when it is -20 outside. If you don't want your kids drinking it, tell them and they can communicate it to the coach.

It looks like efforts to improve communication are already underway. I have two Blazers and got an email from each coach today.

gratefulskier
01-14-2010, 12:00 PM
Many coaches were telling parents about the meeting because there was concern that the message hadn't reached all parents. I mentioned it to parents at both drop-off and pick-up.

Regretfully, we didn't get to every single parent and make them aware of the meeting if they hadn't gotten the e-mail.


GS

muddy_hollow
03-26-2010, 09:36 AM
As we are coming to the close of the 09/10 blazer program what's the verdict here? Did it blow or was it a blow out?

Scoring for me - 3 out of 5. Down from previous years.

HowieT2
03-26-2010, 09:57 AM
As we are coming to the close of the 09/10 blazer program what's the verdict here? Did it blow or was it a blow out?

Scoring for me - 3 out of 5. Down from previous years.

After a somewhat rocky start, I thought the program was good. Both my kids had great coaches, they both enjoyed it a lot and improved their skills along the way. Despite my initial reservations, I thought Mickey did a good job. The blazer party last weekend was much better than last year. The wifey and I are extremely satisfied customers.