Expanded woods and new glades?

[Brew Ski]

I just recieved my weekly Sugarbush e-mail. In it is says..."Crews are busy working in the woods expanding our gladed terrain as well as adding new wooded areas to the tune of 70 new acres."

Can anyone elaborate on this?
Specifically which woods are expanding (does "adding new wooded areas" mean planting trees?)?

Where are these magical 70 acrea of pristine new glades?

If there is a prize for "First to discover", I'm up for the challenge. Kinda like the Chinese downhill from the movie Hot Dog. First chair of the season, everyone jockey's for position in line. First person to grab the trophy hidden in the new glades wins. (Maybe we win free lincoln limo rides?)

[Hawk]

I just recieved my weekly Sugarbush e-mail. In it is says..."Crews are busy working in the woods expanding our gladed terrain as well as adding new wooded areas to the tune of 70 new acres."

Can anyone elaborate on this?
Specifically which woods are expanding (does "adding new wooded areas" mean planting trees?)?

Where are these magical 70 acrea of pristine new glades?

If there is a prize for "First to discover", I'm up for the challenge. Kinda like the Chinese downhill from the movie Hot Dog. First chair of the season, everyone jockey's for position in line. First person to grab the trophy hidden in the new glades wins. (Maybe we win free lincoln limo rides?)

Forget it Brew your already to late. :wink:

[HowieT2]

I just recieved my weekly Sugarbush e-mail. In it is says..."Crews are busy working in the woods expanding our gladed terrain as well as adding new wooded areas to the tune of 70 new acres."

Can anyone elaborate on this?
Specifically which woods are expanding (does "adding new wooded areas" mean planting trees?)?

Where are these magical 70 acrea of pristine new glades?

If there is a prize for "First to discover", I'm up for the challenge. Kinda like the Chinese downhill from the movie Hot Dog. First chair of the season, everyone jockey's for position in line. First person to grab the trophy hidden in the new glades wins. (Maybe we win free lincoln limo rides?)

somehow I don't think I'll be heading for any glades off the first chair of the season

[Lostone]

Yeah... I was wondering about that. Don't often head into the woods for the first week, or so. Or maybe the plan is to have that much snow to start? :D

[John Walden]

Okay; where is the new 40 acres of glades?

[Strat]

Okay; where is the new 40 acres of glades?

70!

I asked Win (http://forums.skimrv.com/viewtopic.php?t=1986) about it back in June, and he said he'd let us know as soon as he could.

[summitchallenger]

We'll let you know next June. :wink:

[Yard Sale]

I'm wondering where he's been hiding this 40 acre stash. His garage must be huge.

[Treeskier]

A mountain beaver whispered into my ear............

Looks like 11 new areas with a total of 13 new bands across both MTs.

Unfortunately some already have a history. But the others should be a great addition.

What will be interesting is to see if they put them on the map or just leave them to be discovered or shown by ski school guide/lessons. (that is what Mad River is doing now) I feel a much better solution.

I hear work starts Monday.

[Hawk]

Tree, as usual you are very positive and supportive. I got a sinking feeling when I heard what was in store. I will leave my comments to myself as everybody knows how I feel about opening up (dumbing down) the woods. :(

[win]

When we get final Forest Service and Act 250 approval I will let all know the details and the whereabouts. You have all been skiing these I am sure but they will be maintained by us and marked like the other 11 existing wooded areas and shown on the map. There will be more at both LP and ME.

[vonski]

I guess the search for the unknown will get more adventerous this year. If the new areas although old will be marked it will take all the guessing out of it. It certainly may make the adage of just go off any trail true!!! I guess some venturing into area above Inverness may only be the unmarked areas left. Also trips off the back side may be in store for true fresh tracks. Lets hope the shuttle does not run to the parking lot on the backside!! But then again, this should only go to help to get skier visits up and that is the ultimate goal in order to keep up the improvements on the hill. So, with progress comes concessions and improvements. Lets just hope the woods have plenty of dumpage this year to keep us all smiling!!

[Hawk]

When we get final Forest Service and Act 250 approval I will let all know the details and the whereabouts. You have all been skiing these I am sure but they will be maintained by us and marked like the other 11 existing wooded areas and shown on the map. There will be more at both LP and ME.

:shock: ......Doah. :wink:

[mattlucas]

Win, what is the upside of adding so many bands so fast in a single year? Is SB the new Lollapalooza?

It seems like it would be tough to cut new lines to the standard that intermediates expect something like Eden or Gatehouse woods to ski.
I can't complain if my stashes get eaten because it technically isn't my mountain (or any of ours, no matter what we think), but I can't figure out what the marketing benefit is at X +15 instead of X +5. Hope you guys did your homework, and that some of these are just more beginner type areas like Walt's, because I think the thrill of discovery of a new unmarked glade on your own is worth ten times even the cost of losing a private stash.

Time will definitely tell, this is a bold move.

[skiladi]

When we get final Forest Service and Act 250 approval I will let all know the details and the whereabouts. You have all been skiing these I am sure but they will be maintained by us and marked like the other 11 existing wooded areas and shown on the map. There will be more at both LP and ME.

Wasn't it just a few years ago that the woods were not part of the trail count and it was open boundary to boundary? I haven't looked at a trail map recently. Are they still marked on it? I guess I will troll on over to the website and check it out. ; }

[HowieT2]

Win, what is the upside of adding so many bands so fast in a single year? Is SB the new Lollapalooza?

It seems like it would be tough to cut new lines to the standard that intermediates expect something like Eden or Gatehouse woods to ski.
I can't complain if my stashes get eaten because it technically isn't my mountain (or any of ours, no matter what we think), but I can't figure out what the marketing benefit is at X +15 instead of X +5. Hope you guys did your homework, and that some of these are just more beginner type areas like Walt's, because I think the thrill of discovery of a new unmarked glade on your own is worth ten times even the cost of losing a private stash.

Time will definitely tell, this is a bold move.

Why do you think the new woods trails will be cut "to the standard that intermediates expect"??? there are existing on map woods that aren't.
But I agree with your point about giving too much all at once.

[win]

Skiladi is not correct. It has never been sanctioned boundary to boundary. One-half of the land we ski on is leased from the National Forest under a special use permit. All the land we ski on is under the jurisdiction of ACT 250. The USFS does not want skiing everywhere on their mountain. They will permit us to have authorized bands of wooded areas that we thin under a foresting plan and can thus show on the trail map for all to see and use. We had our first bands approved a few years ago and added some more three years ago, as I remember. We have been working with the USFS since doing a number of habitat studies to get our landlord comfortable with more sanctioned tree skiing in certain areas. Once we have their approval we next need an Act 250 permit. Assuming we get approval from both, we plan to expand this year for very simple reason. We can and our guests want more marked wooded areas. Not all are as knowledgeable as the bloggers on SKIMRV, so having marked areas is important to them. The areas we will be thinning will add both more beginner/intermediate terrain as well as added to some more challenging terrain. Notice I said thinning, so imagine what Deeper Sleeper, Eden's Woods, Exterminator Woods, etc are like. All in all the new sections marked on the map will add approximately 70 more acres of wooded skiing and riding. Not a lot given the 4,000 total acres at LP, Slidebrook and ME. While most of ME is not USFS with the exception of the higher elevations, we are still subject to Act 250 before we can do anything.

To summarize. Assuming we have USFS approval and Act 250 permits we will begin thinning these new areas and hope to have most if not all ready to this coming season.

[vonski]

Win, How are the new areas going to be named?

[Strat]

One would assume creative plays on the trails they are between (like Deeper Sleeper) or tributes to important Sugarbush figures (Sigi's Stash, Sandy's Woods, Atkinson's Alley...)

[Tin Woodsman]

The areas we will be thinning will add both more beginner/intermediate terrain as well as added to some more challenging terrain.

Only so many places for this sort of terrain at LP. Prepare for the end of powder turns in some nice, low-angle woods.

[Hawk]

The areas we will be thinning will add both more beginner/intermediate terrain as well as added to some more challenging terrain.

Only so many places for this sort of terrain at LP. Prepare for the end of powder turns in some nice, low-angle woods.

I agree with Tin to some extent but I also totally understand where Win is coming from. The avid Tree Nut like some of us on the board and many of the long time skiers, dare I say it, are the minority. I can imagine that the majority of people that talk to Win about this subject constantly lobby for more tree runs. This also will attract people from other locations like Jay and Stowe looking for new adventure. I am sure the press will do wonders for new skier visits.

The down side is that it will certainly do two things. One, open up and officially acknowledge areas that were previously not as traveled. Two, put more people, skilled and not so skilled in the woods. The result is that untracked will become more of a premium. My reaction will be to head for my favorite locations first thing on a powder day instead of skiing the untracked trails first. Then I will hit the very obscure later in the day.

This is very good for the mountain but I can't help being a little selfish. After all the reason I came here and abandoned all my friends at Sunday River years ago was the endless untracked. It was mind boggling how much there was that no one skied. Now with the new direction the mountain has taken over the last few years the commodity has certainly shrank. This is just my perspective which is shared by all that I ski with.

As for naming the trails, I would think that some consideration for the "original" names would be the way to go. They have become part of the Sugarbush culture and have some serious history.

Things are a changin boy and girls....... :wink:

[vonski]

Mt. Ellen will be the place to be on POW days. Still less crowded and no matter how much is marked there still will be fresh. Maybe we can get ahold of the map printers and pay them to cut the map in half before shipping it.. LOLOLOL!!!
Also no matter what there are many out there that simply have no desire to ski in the woods. Shhhh!!! cause they don't know what they are missing. I think my new comment on the chair lift might be WOODS SUCK!!! Stay on the trails. This white stuff all over me is from a snowball fight. :wink:

[skiladi]

Skiladi is not correct. It has never been sanctioned boundary to boundary. One-half of the land we ski on is leased from the National Forest under a special use permit. All the land we ski on is under the jurisdiction of ACT 250. The USFS does not want skiing everywhere on their mountain. They will permit us to have authorized bands of wooded areas that we thin under a foresting plan and can thus show on the trail map for all to see and use. We had our first bands approved a few years ago and added some more three years ago, as I remember. We have been working with the USFS since doing a number of habitat studies to get our landlord comfortable with more sanctioned tree skiing in certain areas. Once we have their approval we next need an Act 250 permit. Assuming we get approval from both, we plan to expand this year for very simple reason. We can and our guests want more marked wooded areas. Not all are as knowledgeable as the bloggers on SKIMRV, so having marked areas is important to them. The areas we will be thinning will add both more beginner/intermediate terrain as well as added to some more challenging terrain. Notice I said thinning, so imagine what Deeper Sleeper, Eden's Woods, Exterminator Woods, etc are like. All in all the new sections marked on the map will add approximately 70 more acres of wooded skiing and riding. Not a lot given the 4,000 total acres at LP, Slidebrook and ME. While most of ME is not USFS with the exception of the higher elevations, we are still subject to Act 250 before we can do anything.

To summarize. Assuming we have USFS approval and Act 250 permits we will begin thinning these new areas and hope to have most if not all ready to this coming season.

Sometimes being wrong helps to get more information out there. Suddenly I feel like going Salmon fishing. Thanks for the clarification,Win.

[HowieT2]

The areas we will be thinning will add both more beginner/intermediate terrain as well as added to some more challenging terrain.

Only so many places for this sort of terrain at LP. Prepare for the end of powder turns in some nice, low-angle woods.

Sucks to have to share such a precious commodity, but I think we would all concede that the mtn/area needs to increase skier visits. There may come a point in the future when capacity is reached (See, Kmart) but it's not there yet. I was lamenting the same thing at Yankee stadium the other day. Back in the late 80's early 90's when the team stunk, you could walk up 5 minutes before the game and get great seats for 'nothing. No lines for food, no crowds etc. Gotta take the good with the bad.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for SB to be a private mtn a la Yellowstone just for the diehard faithful, but it ain't happening and it wouldn't be right.
At any rate, early bird catches the worm.

[mattlucas]

The areas we will be thinning will add both more beginner/intermediate terrain as well as added to some more challenging terrain. Notice I said thinning, so imagine what Deeper Sleeper, Eden's Woods, Exterminator Woods, etc are like.

My problem isn't about sharing stashes, Deeper sleeper and Eden's ski like wide open trails to me. I'm not boasting, it just isn't tree skiing. It's more akin to the original idea of gladed skiing like in The Glades and Sleeper from decades ago. Look at any photograph from that time and it is difficult to figure out where the trail is at all, and now it's quite obvious. And Paradise has what, 7 trees left on it?

When edges and traffic and weather thin out the younger supporting trees, there isn't going to be anything left in the future unless protective measures are put in place to close sections to traffic in the near future.

Obviously, this is being done with USFS consent in 2009 and not 1959, so I'm sure everyone there and at SB has a better idea of what sustainability is,
but I would want the mountain to tout it's conservation efforts and not just 15 NEW TREE TRAILS. I think there is a subjective difference, and broadcasting "new terrain" when it was always there and skiable doesn't teach anyone about the forest and helps to create situations like what happened at Jay (only a slight stretch).

[win]

Matt, excellent point. I guess we should speak more about our environmental concern and that we do a lot of things. I am going to have a section on the web speak more about what we do. Part of the thinking of the Forest Service is their agreeing with us that some thinning of the forest in certain areas that can then be skied is good forest management.

As far as the trail names, I will decide with the input of some of my teammates like Egan, Hammond etc who know the mountain and the history well. I suspect we will use some of the "traditional" names as well as some like XXXX Woods.

[Go Figure]

It was quite amusing to watch, between storms last winter, the clowns skiing Eden, Egans and others to the dirt and leaves, while skiing snow covered trails. Anytime maps are marked, the zone will get hammered into oblivion. At some point more people who love the current "vibe"will leave, not to be replced by new {begging for on map direction} skiers. The overall "vibe in the valley has changed {not for the better} over the last 30 years and the nitch as a "core" mountain with nothing to do after skiing mountain is what it is and should be taken into account when change is made.

The bottom line is when the list of off season improvements for Vermont ski areas debuts, you need to show something was added.

I'll second the "fluffy" snow desire, no matter what anyone tries to say the new guns BLOW, as in crappy wet snow. Please stop killing off the trailside trees with ice from the guns.
On another note We got back from Utah last week and although still wet in places the golf course is playing well.

[win]

What?

[groomer]

What? I'm trying to figure out what he's talking about also. I started making snow in 1984, back then the idea was to keep all the snow you made ON THE TRAIL, not in the woods, so you made the snow wet enough to stay on the trail. That was efficiency back in the day. Nowadays, you see a good portion of the snow from the guns flying up in the air, this is because the snow is made so dry you can pretty much ski on it immediately! 13 years ago we would let a pile of snow "Drain out" for a day or two before we would push it around with the groomers. Now, for the most part, you can usually push MOST of a pile out 4-6 hours after it is blown without too much of a problem. Although trees do get iced up now and then, and mishaps do happen (We're dealing with mother nature, machines break, and snowmakers are human!) the snow produced today is Head over heals a much finer product than 25 years ago!

[othripper]

There was a warning for the act 250 permit in this weeks paper. If you go to this link:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/detail.cfm?ID=24811

and scroll to the bottom, you can download a pdf file of the proposed glades. Looks like the mountain has picked some great terrain to open, but more importantly, my favorite lines aren't there!

Let's hope there is enough snow this winter to really ski the woods, unlike last year.

Mike

[Lostone]

That was a good find! Thanx. :D

Couple of these I have... known friends who know friends, who ski. One, I found last year, but too late, as there wasn't enough snow for safe exploration. :?

Missed some of my main ones, tho there are many who... haven't missed them. :cry:

[vonski]

There was a warning for the act 250 permit in this weeks paper. If you go to this link:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/detail.cfm?ID=24811

and scroll to the bottom, you can download a pdf file of the proposed glades. Looks like the mountain has picked some great terrain to open, but more importantly, my favorite lines aren't there!

Let's hope there is enough snow this winter to really ski the woods, unlike last year.

Mike

nice find Mike. It looks to me like there is nothing new there. I can say I have skiied through all those areas except maybe the racers line below snowball. I just hope that the lines off exterminator get cut by a skier not a snow boarder, cause Ex. woods are just a bump run now in the woods. Way to wide open. just my two cents. I personally prefer to take a branch across the face once in a while to get the POW. Bushwacking!!!!

[ahm]

So many are discussing the "loss" of old stashes due to the new "thinning" efforts, adding those areas to the trail map and a reduction in fresh untracked lines. What surprises me most is that there is so much terrain that a bit of looking around, combined with some homework in the off season, can find and even more when you pop on a pair of skins. Fresh snow and the feeling it provides is actually so much better when a "bit" of "work" goes into it, yet so few seem to want to put in much more effort than getting a close parking spot and jumping on the lift. I love lift served skiing and it provides a bunch of runs and a lot of fun. But once, within reason a lift goes in, the snow quality in terms of adequate fresh and uncrowded lines is reduced. Unless of course there is only one lift, but then the lines can get long depending on how big the hill is. That is simply a fact of the lift and the "business" that is a ski resort.

When I want more pristine, less traveled lines I simply dig deeper or pop on some touring gear and do some great exploring. That exploring can be in the form of tracking a storm and going to where it hits. Be that a ski area or some other shot. Last year in March there was a southern tracking storm that missed most areas, but not MA's Mt Greylock. I live a few solid hours from Greylock, but found myself there on a Tuesday morning to nail a great set of untracked lines with about an hour skin. Not too much work. A trip my friends and I did to BC last year had pretty low snow at the ski areas (Revy & KH), so we ditched the lift served plan, skied every day in Rogers Pass and every run was nice powder with some great new areas found. Again, a bit of effort provided nice soft untracked lines and a huge feeling of stoke at the end of the day. Did we ski less than we had hoped. Absolutely. Did we miss some signature KH hike to lines that we wanted to hit and I have posted here. Sure, but the snow rocked and the trip was great.

So as we look to 09-10 season, let's not so much berate the mountain for "opening up areas" that were not listed before, but use it as an opportunity to further explore the mountains endless stashes and maybe decide to venture away from the lift a bit more. The feeling you'll get when you pop out to some incredible natural stash will be well worth that extra effort. When it is all said and done, the bush provides super terrain for all and really more than enough woods lines for those willing to work just a bit more for it. And if you just have to have your favorite stash on a powder day....................well nothing beats a dawn patrol.....................

So who's been doing there homework as we move towards fall..............

[Strat]

Nice find!

Maybe of even more interest to the community here is the Vegetation Management Plan from last year also included in the permit documents.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/5W1045-31/2008_Sugarbush_Vegetation%20Management%20Plan_With _Figures.pdf

Page 47 of the PDF (Figure 3 of the report) is what's most catching my attention. Can you say Future Mountain Explansion (sic)?

(The rest of the Figures are related and also interesting).

[Go Figure]

Nice find!

Maybe of even more interest to the community here is the Vegetation Management Plan from last year also included in the permit documents.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/5W1045-31/2008_Sugarbush_Vegetation%20Management%20Plan_With _Figures.pdf

Page 47 of the PDF (Figure 3 of the report) is what's most catching my attention. Can you say Future Mountain Explansion (sic)?

(The rest of the Figures are related and also interesting).

Not really anything "new" on that map that has not been proposed before. Its a virtual carbon copy of an early ASC [remember Les] map. It was printed in the VR on September 26, 1996.

[Hawk]

Now that takes all the guess work out of it Strat. :wink:

Lots of interesting stuff on those maps like the multiple new lines in Slidebrook and the new lift right down past my place. :shock:

Maybe this developement thing is not so bad after all. :wink:

and.......I agree with AHM's post and do a fair amount of discovery myself. I have only one observation. I don't have the ability or finances to ski all those mid week days and all across the world like AHM so I think his perception is very much different than mine. :wink: No wonder he gets so much untracked.......

[ahm]

The key to all that untracked is my cheap living expenses. I just live out of my tent. It's a bit chilly in the winter, but once you know where the switch is you can always turn the heater on in the CR shelter and get the freshies before they ever fire up the lift.

From the pdf, I think all should rest at ease. The "new" lines have been there before and most of you all ski them already. Yes they get a bit more bumped up, but really bumped woods are a lot of fun and provide some nice air shots. Although some feel exterm woods is too open, I caught a super run in there during last year's Dec storms that was just super. Caught the entire area untracked as people dove for Bravo and it was just so nice and deep. Plus as they open em up, you can ski em fast.

I also liked the new lines in slidebrook that were posted on the pdf and even the addition of the faux cliff on roller coaster. Just like going to a rock gym. And before the snow flies, I'll redo the fixed rope on the upper part of Mt Abe for those who liked it last year. Lots of fun using some of those lines.

As Hawk says, do some fall homework and you'll be amazed what you find. Just keep the tape in your pocket....................

[Tin Woodsman]

There was a warning for the act 250 permit in this weeks paper. If you go to this link:

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/site/cfm/act250/detail.cfm?ID=24811

and scroll to the bottom, you can download a pdf file of the proposed glades. Looks like the mountain has picked some great terrain to open, but more importantly, my favorite lines aren't there!

Let's hope there is enough snow this winter to really ski the woods, unlike last year.

Mike

nice find Mike. It looks to me like there is nothing new there. I can say I have skiied through all those areas except maybe the racers line below snowball.

A few real nice lines there, but all are pretty well known. Not a huge "loss".

The big news is what Strat found. They certainly don't shrink from thinking big. Wow.

[atkinson]

http://forums.alpinezone.com/gallery/data/515/medium/IMG_6308.jpg

Work has commenced. We have been focusing on removing mainly dead stuff, striped maple, hobblebush and a few select hardwoods to leave uneven aged stands, plenty of windbreaks and thicker "islands" to better sustain these tree lines in a healthly forest. I've been out helping with brush removal, really it is more like brush placement as we fill holes, pad rocks and smooth the surface.

Winter never ends at Sugarbush!

John

[summitchallenger]

So I take it that the Act 250 permit was granted then?

[Brew Ski]

"Winter never ends at Sugarbush! "
- JA.

Your quote made my week. I just received my SKI mag buyers guide and have read it twice. Lamenting the hot weather, I'm ready for some turns.

Thank you for the effort in the woods clean up and the pix, John.

Those glades will ski better with the knee grabbers and binding biters removed. I guess it also means we can get in there earlier with a little less snow pack than last year with the snow snakes removed or covered in holes.

Dare I dream about early season Glade skiing????

Think snow!

[Tin Woodsman]

http://forums.alpinezone.com/gallery/data/515/medium/IMG_6308.jpg

Work has commenced. We have been focusing on removing mainly dead stuff, striped maple, hobblebush and a few select hardwoods to leave uneven aged stands, plenty of windbreaks and thicker "islands" to better sustain these tree lines in a healthly forest. I've been out helping with brush removal, really it is more like brush placement as we fill holes, pad rocks and smooth the surface.

Winter never ends at Sugarbush!

John

Looks very much like the shot(s) between Twist and Mall with those Birches. What was the name of that?

[teleo]

removing mainly dead stuffLooks very much like the shot(s) between Twist and Mall
Needed some snow snakes removed from there. Thanks John & crew.
But can you forget to put the trail signs up and not redo the maps :wink:

[win]

Yes, 250 was received!

[summitchallenger]

Yes, 250 was received!

Nice!

[atkinson]

A couple more ...

http://forums.alpinezone.com/gallery/data/515/atkinson_bike_August_2009_0090.JPG
Pad and fill, pad and fill.

http://forums.alpinezone.com/gallery/data/515/medium/atkinson_bike_August_2009_0047.JPG
Here are some of the real workers, Andrea and Doug, who you may recognize from the winter lift crew. I've just been running up for a few hours each day between bike clinics.

My brain is officially in split-personality mode, part of me can't stop building bike trails and part of me can't resist helping in the glades.

I agree about the maps and trail signs Teleo. And not for selfish reasons. By making them quieter, it maintains a bigger sense of adventure and mystique. Tearing off all the clothes leaves nothing to the imagination. But that's just my opinion.

John

p.s. The name is different for different people. Only certain lines have truly recognizable and agreed upon names. Everything else is better referenced by parallel routes or official landmarks. It's a game we play with the Adventure groups ... where are we? Left of? Right of? Above? Below? Quickest exit? Easiest route?

Anyway, this is commonly known as Surewood Forest, west of Eden. ;) It's definitely not notnottingham, kitty's hand, too brothers, celestial womb or divorce road.

[Hawk]

It's new name should be "Trampled" or "Overrun". :wink:

[Hawk]

....by the way. The ACT 250 link has viraled to other ski sites. :shock:
I think we are going to see some new people poking around the woods this year.

Good for business I guess. :(

[vonski]

Nice lines being developed. But being a bushwacker not to concerned as I will probably be 50 to 100 feet to either side of the line wacking my way through the fresh. And I agree keep them off the map at least the first year!!!

[Treeskier]

Looks a lot like Gangster Grotto to me.

[HowieT2]

Looks a lot like Gangster Grotto to me.

Now that these places are on map I assume it is OK to speak of them and their names in public?????

[Tin Woodsman]

EpStein's

[Brew Ski]

The open cathedral of the Aspen grove in JA's pix is a clear give away. There is only one tree run on the mountain that has that.
I dare not mention the name!

I hope that the "entrance" comes in far below that magical powder line. In fact I hope that particular entrance remains "secret".

Looks like the work crew is turning all the branches to lay down hill. That helps keep the snow in place and removes snow snakes, and leg breakers. Great job! We did a lot of that in the Slidebrook clean out.

Glades should ski fast and fun this year.

Let it snow!

[Strat]

Looks a lot like Gangster Grotto to me.

Now that these places are on map I assume it is OK to speak of them and their names in public?????

Didn't we have this debate a few months ago, regarding the same locale?

[Yard Sale]

I've noticed fresh blue blazes of paint in the woods. Is this an indication of areas being worked on?

[Treeskier]

So has anyone gone and seen what they have done?

[Chewbarka]

There is going to be a lot of unhappiness out there. From what I have seen, they are turning Sugarbush into the next Jay Peak. There are going to be lots of moguls between the few trees that are left in some of my favorite areas.

[shadyjay]

Just got back from the Big E and picked up the "Sugarbush Magazine". In the back is the new trail map. Brace yourselves...
Race Course Woods, Sap Line, Gangsta's Grotto, Stein's Woods (all LP) and Ellen's Woods and Moose Run Woods (ME) appear to be the new areas. Outside of that, nothing else appears new with the map.

For those that don't know, the Sugarbush Magazine appears to be this year's "brochure" and has some ads for Valley/Resort businesses, some articles, and such.

[Brew Ski]

A trail named Gangsta's Grotto?

Hmmm, that ought to please a particular tree skier! :wink:

Well, with the "cat out of the bag" so to speak, I guess the only thing left, is to...

Let it snow! Let it snow! Let it snow!!!!

[shadyjay]

There's another too... Christmas Trees or somethin.


And to clarify about the "cat outta da bag"... I only divulged this information since it is now in the public domain.... and a magazine being handed out at New England's largest fair complete with published trail map doesn't get any more p.d. than that. I have been out of the loop since April so I had no insight to share on that. Hope I didn't disappoint anyone with the knowledge that their "stashes" are now public. But think of it this way.... you'll have new terrain to discover this season.

[HowieT2]

How can we get this mag with the trail map or can someone who has it, scan it and post it?
The maps on the website are not updated.

[vonski]

Shadyjay, if u have a scanner put it to work. Or someone at the mountain look for the new advert material..and post the map. Please!!

[Lostone]

It is called Sugarbush Magazine, and I expect it will be found In most ski shops, ect.

Believe it or not, I won't post it in an open forum, as it is copyrighted. (I also don't have a scanner.)

But let's make it simple.

Look at the mountain from the base. Pretty much everything from Murphy's to the Snowcreek condos, is open.

[teleo]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot I saw one of these over the weekend. As Lostone said, everything from Murphy's over to Eden is now officially on the map :cry: Trying to stay positive, maybe Egans won't get trashed as quickly. And there are still no tree runs off the upper lifts :wink:

Sorry I left the mag at the condo, and there might be something to Lostone's copyright thing.

[gone.skiing]

and the drama continues... Can't wait to check the new stuff out, I am sure they did a nice job with it.

There is a sweet drop in Epstein's about 2/3 of the way down. I wonder if they cleaned up take off and landing.

[HowieT2]

can't imagine there would be any objection to posting the map, copyrighted or not, since it's given away for free. Win?

I don't know about you folk, but I'm starting to get pumped.

[shadyjay]

I'm guessing since I got it from the Vermont Tourism booth in the Vermont building, that you can also obtain it at any rest area in Vermont .... that is still open that is!

No scanner! I could take a picture of it though.

And its more like everything from Murphy's down past Eden to [almost] Upper Snowcreek. Don't forget Race Course Woods.

At Ellen, the Moose Track is a line from Tubler to Lower FIS, running parallel to the Slide Brook liftline. Ellen's woods is a large area between Lower FIS's flats (as shown on the map) and the top of Sunny D, running looker's left of Graduation.

[teleo]

I actually saw one in Gate House at the information desk. I gotta imagine they are around or will be soon. Somewhat surprised they don't have it on the website yet. Maybe they want to do a community day splash?

A photo of it might work, but it's a little small in the mag for that. Win - where's the electronic version?

I completely forgot about the new glades and did a hike by Bravo on Sat. duh, I shoulda hiked on the other side. oh well I'll have a plan for the next hike.

BTW - I guess it didn't snow given no stoke for us flatlanders this AM?

[HowieT2]

I'm guessing since I got it from the Vermont Tourism booth in the Vermont building, that you can also obtain it at any rest area in Vermont .... that is still open that is!

No scanner! I could take a picture of it though.

And its more like everything from Murphy's down past Eden to [almost] Upper Snowcreek. Don't forget Race Course Woods.

At Ellen, the Moose Track is a line from Tubler to Lower FIS, running parallel to the Slide Brook liftline. Ellen's woods is a large area between Lower FIS's flats (as shown on the map) and the top of Sunny D, running looker's left of Graduation.

from these descriptions, not having seen a map, I'm relieved. Seems like a reasonable balancing of interests (marketing v. maintaining stashes).

[Hawk]

can't imagine there would be any objection to posting the map, copyrighted or not, since it's given away for free. Win?

I don't know about you folk, but I'm starting to get pumped.

You don't need a map Howie. You already ski these places. :wink:

[HowieT2]

can't imagine there would be any objection to posting the map, copyrighted or not, since it's given away for free. Win?

I don't know about you folk, but I'm starting to get pumped.

You don't need a map Howie. You already ski these places. :wink:

I got another month plus to wait and need something to look at. ski porn.

[Lostone]

The copyright is for the company that put out the magazine, not Sugarbush. I doubt there would be real opposition, but it is possible to have had it be an exclusive release. But like Hawk said, you know these places.

I had thought the ones at North were already on the map, but looking again, Moos Run Woods goes from Tumbler Woods, out to Lower FIS and Ellen's Woods is to the skiers' right of Graduation. (I thought that was on the map, but only Graduation woods, was.

In any case, you'll see it before you can ski it.

And teleo, no snow. They're saying possible tonight, but they're just saying a few wet flakes.

[vonski]

Shadyjay, although no scanner the better description was great. Was in Southern Vt today. I cut off 91 at greenfield to Dover then up to Springfield. Unfortunately no rest areas heading south on 91. and missed the one on the way up by going through Colraine to Mt.Snow area. The colors are coming in nice especially up on the mountains. Intense Reds!!!

Also, not to much new at Ellen and that is a good thing. And I guess I really don't need a map as I have already been through all those areas.

[win]

There is new stuff at ME too! Some is on the map and some is not! At LP because we are on USFS we have to put all the official wooded areas on the map. Our new trail maps will be out shortly and we will have the map on the web shortly too.

[vonski]

Okay then the good thing is that all is not on the map for Ellen.

[castlerock]

The copyright is for the company that put out the magazine, not Sugarbush.
Whaaaat...? That "magazine" was bought and paid for by da Bush....

[Lostone]

Right hand side of page 3. :wink:

And I think it is at least largely paid for by advertising for many local businesses. But I've seen no numbers and heard nothing. :wink:

[barkbiter]

and the drama continues... Can't wait to check the new stuff out, I am sure they did a nice job with it.

There is a sweet drop in Epstein's about 2/3 of the way down. I wonder if they cleaned up take off and landing.

That's a nice drop into Epsteins, almost as nice as the tomahawk entrance into Huey.

[slaw]

huey's? where is that? 8)

[007]

and the drama continues... Can't wait to check the new stuff out, I am sure they did a nice job with it.

There is a sweet drop in Epstein's about 2/3 of the way down. I wonder if they cleaned up take off and landing.

That's a nice drop into Epsteins, almost as nice as the tomahawk entrance into Huey.

, or the safety meeting shack entrance next to "The Ballroom"..... (grinning)

[TreeBandit]

I know I ski alot of these areas, but one day I am going to have to buy someone a beer so that they can match the names to the areas the I ski. This way I can meet people in the right trails/lines.

I am not asking anyone to tell me their secret stashes, I just want to know the names of the lines that I have already found. :D

[HowieT2]

I know I ski alot of these areas, but one day I am going to have to buy someone a beer so that they can match the names to the areas the I ski. This way I can meet people in the right trails/lines.

I am not asking anyone to tell me their secret stashes, I just want to know the names of the lines that I have already found. :D

Ditto. I just ski and have no idea what half these things are called.

[summitchallenger]

I know I ski alot of these areas, but one day I am going to have to buy someone a beer so that they can match the names to the areas the I ski. This way I can meet people in the right trails/lines.

I am not asking anyone to tell me their secret stashes, I just want to know the names of the lines that I have already found. :D

+ 1.

[Treeskier]

Been known to drink beer..

[vonski]

+2

[gone.skiing]

Been known to drink beer..

Got a t-shirt to prove it...

[Brew Ski]

Been known to drink beer..

Got a t-shirt to prove it...


Ditto!

FYI, buy him wine in a dive bar while watching a great blues band and you might find out who named all those trails! 8)

[barkbiter]

Been known to drink beer..

Got a t-shirt to prove it...

and a skirt to match......................

[gone.skiing]

biter is doing his best skiing as usual on the internet.......................................... ...................

[barkbiter]

biter is doing his best skiing as usual on the internet........................................ .....................

c'mon now..........you know I do my best in the woods.

oh that's right you never see that !

Let's all hang around the Slidebrook bus stop and pontificate on the names of the runsssssssszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[gone.skiing]

It is not runszzzzz, it is secret stashes. Get your lingo straight.

[boze]

Pretty simple: see a line, ski it
Call it whatever you want

And in the final analysis it is better off for there to be some 'name confusion' - it not only adds to the mystique but much more importantly it works to keep things less easy to id / compare / inventory :wink:

[HowieT2]

Pretty simple: see a line, ski it
Call it whatever you want

And in the final analysis it is better off for there to be some 'name confusion' - it not only adds to the mystique but much more importantly it works to keep things less easy to id / compare / inventory :wink:


:shock:
or in your case; see no line, ski into a tree.

can't wait to hunt some pow with you, bro. Phi phi in your eye. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[007]

Poked around Christmas Tree and slipped into Grotto yesterday, both are looking fine. Nice trim job........

[summitchallenger]

I went to Community Day and snagged some new Trail Maps and that Sugarbush Magazine. The latter is not produced by the mountain, but was done by a PR firm that holds the copyright. For those who are wondering, if you have seen the "magazines" that are put out for Okemo or Sunapee, this is the same thing. Not much substantive stuff in it...unlike my oversized 1994 "Sugarbush" Magazine I have in my archives somewhere. I would have preferred an inhouse magazine like Jay Peak puts out, profiling some of their skiers and riders and exhibiting some fine photography, as well as explaining the mountain and its culture. This is pretty much advertising and the stories are meant to target certain people, rather than conveying information IMHO. It is what it is, and if I had a choice between more snowmaking and a glitzy mountain magazine, I will choose the former.

As to the Trail Maps--they did a nice job. I like the "Mount Ellen Only" map, which blows up the detail and really does the place justice. One side of the map says "Mt. Ellen" and has a pic of a teenage snowboarder dropping into Upper FIS on a powder day with the ridgeline behind him. The other flap says "Sugarbush 2009-2010 Trail Map" and has a skier hitting some sick trees on a powder day.

As for the tree areas on the map, no real surprises. I have skied the LP areas. As said, what is important was what was not put on the maps. The new designated areas is a win-win in that the mountain can say, "look what we did," and folks are directed to certain areas to woods ski, rather than getting in over their heads.

I did catch the end of Win's speech. Nothing too earth shattering. They've repainted the Valley House Double base terminal and the Gatehouse Express lift.

I know people complain, but honestly I can say that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where most of the unmarked glades are. You only need to be attentive and look for the appropriate entrances. Sometimes you can see people entering and exiting woods areas. And with folks doing "unofficial" pruning, it really isn't hard at all.

[TreeBandit]

On the way up north this weekend we stop at the rest stop near the VT/MA line and the one on RT89. I was disipointed to find no information for Sugarbush at either location. I was able to find alot of Okemo. Jay and Smug, and Stowe.

I gues I will just have to wait to see the new map....

[barkbiter]

Poked around Christmas Tree and slipped into Grotto yesterday, both are looking fine. Nice trim job........

007 I've warned you before...............stop poking around, slipping into, and commenting on trim jobs !!!

[ski_resort_observer]

On the way up north this weekend we stop at the rest stop near the VT/MA line and the one on RT89. I was disipointed to find no information for Sugarbush at either location. I was able to find alot of Okemo. Jay and Smug, and Stowe.

I gues I will just have to wait to see the new map....

PM me your mailing address I'll grab a couple of maps and the magazine and shoot them down to you

[Brew Ski]

A group of us hiked up through some of the "new" glades this past weekend. As 007 mentioned they Mountain Ops did a nice job cleaning out lines. Just a little, not too much.

There is still some significant blow down in the woods. The burst that lay flat a large area in Egan's woods, skiers right just before the exit onto Birdland is still there. In Christmas tree woods about 2/3 the way down skiers left has some massive blow down. Looks like about 50 yards or so of some big trees all down. Stumps turned up in lot of places.

By the look of the blue paint on the saplings near the bottom, it looks like there is still some more work to be done. Hopefully Mountain Ops will have time and resources to addres some of the blow down issues as well.

There appears to be some re-generation going on in the upper section of Gangsters Grotto. Nice to see that happening and hopefully there will be some more in other parts of the mountian.

My only "Bark" that "bites" is my dissapproval of the cut entrance into Grotto. Double fall line that will get slip slide and turned into an scraped off ice sheet after the first group of intermediates try to explore it. This entrance should be closed off and become a new re-gen site. I applaud the effort but the straight run cutting diagnol across the fall line is going to create a mess IMHO.

Of course most of the people in this forum have their own entrance, so it won't bother us, but still, it is there.

[bill-now]

http://www.sugarbush.com/images/skiandride/trailmap0910large.jpg

[007]

Poked around Christmas Tree and slipped into Grotto yesterday, both are looking fine. Nice trim job........

007 I've warned you before...............stop poking around, slipping into, and commenting on trim jobs !!!

Barky, I missed that memo, but would you approve of me hiking up with the girlz and showing them the 6-8 inches of fresh at the top....?

[Yard Sale]

Did "Race Course Woods" push the out of bounds boundary a little further out?

This name of all the "new" woods names IMHO in most need of changing. To me there is an incompatability of terms: "Race Course" and "Woods". And yes, I have a sugestion: "Cat and Mouse Woods". That's what we call it in my house. In fact that's how we get to my house.

1. I think this location pertains more to Cat's Meow than Racer's Edge or Snowball.

2. I think this captures the way the lines jump back and forth, or at least did.

Just my .02. Feel free to file under whatever? Anyone have any other goofy names for this or other mapped locations?

[Strat]

http://www.sugarbush.com/images/skiandride/trailmap0910large.jpg
Looks nice. I wonder what happens when they start putting woods on the map in areas that the painting doesn't render well spatially...

[vonski]

There definitely are moose over by Moose Run Woods at Ellen. That is where I found the one late last March. So, Howie now u know where to start looking!!!

[Yard Sale]

There definitely are moose over by Moose Run Woods at Ellen. That is where I found the one late last March. So, Howie now u know where to start looking!!!

Please no disclosure of secret Moose staches on an open forum.

[Strat]

There definitely are moose over by Moose Run Woods at Ellen. That is where I found the one late last March. So, Howie now u know where to start looking!!!

Please no disclosure of secret Moose staches on an open forum.

Good thing this one is public:

http://images-3.redbubble.net/img/clothing/backgroundcolor:fafafa/bodycolor:gold/size:large/style:womens/view:preview/3646272-1-moose-stache.jpg

[Tin Woodsman]

http://www.sugarbush.com/images/skiandride/trailmap0910large.jpg
Looks nice. I wonder what happens when they start putting woods on the map in areas that the painting doesn't render well spatially...
I'd argue that's already the case with Stein's Woods, Egan's Woods and Lew's Line. Not really accurate representations of their location relative to adjacent runs.

[HowieT2]

There definitely are moose over by Moose Run Woods at Ellen. That is where I found the one late last March. So, Howie now u know where to start looking!!!

I'm getting video gear and a tent ready but I still contend it's a myth.

Good to see the map. Let them eat cake.

[shadyjay]

Sugarbush Magazine now available online for viewing, or get your own copy:

http://www.sugarbush.com/content/cm.asp?pid=25&id=1156

[castlerock]

Sugarbush Magazine now available online for viewing, or get your own copy:

http://www.sugarbush.com/content/cm.asp?pid=25&id=1156


But of course it isn't affiliated with the mountain in any way.....Give me a break

[Lostone]

I didn't say it wasn't affiliated with the mountain in any way, but that it was produced by and the copyright was held by a company in NH.

It says so on the right hand side of page 3. I believe that Win said, at the Community Day presentation, that they were going to use it to replace the brochure they normally have.

[shadyjay]

New Trail Map Posted!!!

For those who haven't seen it...
http://www.sugarbush.com/images/skiandride/trailmap0910large.jpg

[mattlucas]

As to the Trail Maps--they did a nice job. I like the "Mount Ellen Only" map, which blows up the detail and really does the place justice. One side of the map says "Mt. Ellen" and has a pic of a teenage snowboarder dropping into Upper FIS on a powder day with the ridgeline behind him. The other flap says "Sugarbush 2009-2010 Trail Map" and has a skier hitting some sick trees on a powder day.


Ok - Let me clarify this a bit. I got a new map and the ellen only side is enlarged about 25 percent over the standard map.

This has to be the most useless thing I could ever imagine. Not only is Ellen smaller than LP, it is also less skied and less deserving of an enlarged map. Yes, the pic of the teenager is nice, as is the woods shot, but do you really need two map covers?

When I first read this, I thought that ellen and lp would have separate maps, which would have been pretty cool.
instead, you have ellen on both sides, at various degrees of magnification.


Who designed this map? I am not ready to drag them into them woods and put them down because the design and pics are cool, but this has to be the biggest waste of space ever.

I would have preferred the mountain making some money on corporate sponsors, useless coupons for the bullwheel, waffle house, and other stuff i never use in the base area, skier tips, tours, a map of the adirondack and white mountain peaks that you can see from the summits, safety info, a crossword puzzle or soduku for when i get stuck riding the North Ridge when it goes on windhold, basically pretty much anything but as it is it's a waste of paper because it gives up a good opportunity to add an experience or knowledge, or a story or anything that would make people more psyched about the bush.

Oh I guess that I am ready to drag them into the woods, and preferably some of the remaining ones that aren't yet marked.



Also, I walked all the new valley house tree areas from left to right. Nothing particularly new. I'm sad cats meow is on the map so i can't blast it days after a storm, but that might have happened last year. Ultimately, the thinning seems relatively careful with the easier woods losing more trees and the harder woods retaining more. That makes sense.

One thing I am shocked about is that a number of the bridges seem to be in poor shape over the various streams. I'd rather those got rebuilt than any more stashes get added to the map. Sometimes, infrastructure is more important than glitz, all the new timeshares in the world included.

[summitchallenger]

I like the slightly larger Ellen only map. I think they are trying to steer the 75% of skiers who don't go there to try it out. I prefer that they stay at LP, but I understand that it is a business and there need to be bodies on the hill.

And Ellen has more vert. It has 2,600 versus 2,400. There is less acreage but there are less folks.

At the end of the day, you can't make everyone happy.

[Treeskier]

I suspect the bigger North map is due the fact that they have sold a lot of North only passes. A LOT. So to those skiers a North Only map makes sense.

[TreeBandit]

I would go with the fact that if the area to be shown on a map is smaller is scale then you would draw it bigger to fill a standard page, good marketing.

Also, I like the idea because Ellen has its own mtn passes. Again good marketing, if I pay for a ticket I should have a map to match what I paid to ski.

I myself tend to ski one day at LP and one day at Ellen on the weekends. I like Ellen because it does not have the crowds and they have some great wood skiing that does not get skiied out as fast. I do wish that the food service was better but it still beats a cold P&J on a chair.

[shadyjay]

I think the Mt Ellen only map on the reverse is pretty cool.... though I do wish they'd revert back to the alternate painting of Mt Ellen which shows the correct configuration of trails connecting the GMX terminal with Inverness. If you haven't seen it, its here: http://sugarbushhistory.com/1994-1995.jpg I'd also wished there was more useful information in the "lift information" section at the top of the map... remember when ride times and verticals were posted?

Still I think the new design is pretty good overall. We just gotta remember to position the maps at LP so that the LP side is showing in the racks, not the Mt Ellen side. That might confuse some. I can already predict the #1 question asked this season... do you have any Lincoln Peak maps?

[WWF-VT]

This has to be the most useless thing I could ever imagine. Not only is Ellen smaller than LP, it is also less skied and less deserving of an enlarged map. Yes, the pic of the teenager is nice, as is the woods shot, but do you really need two map covers?

When I first read this, I thought that ellen and lp would have separate maps, which would have been pretty cool.
instead, you have ellen on both sides, at various degrees of magnification.


Who designed this map? I am not ready to drag them into them woods and put them down because the design and pics are cool, but this has to be the biggest waste of space ever.

I would have preferred the mountain making some money on corporate sponsors, useless coupons for the bullwheel, waffle house, and other stuff i never use in the base area, skier tips, tours, a map of the adirondack and white mountain peaks that you can see from the summits, safety info, a crossword puzzle or soduku for when i get stuck riding the North Ridge when it goes on windhold, basically pretty much anything but as it is it's a waste of paper because it gives up a good opportunity to add an experience or knowledge, or a story or anything that would make people more psyched about the bush.

Oh I guess that I am ready to drag them into the woods, and preferably some of the remaining ones that aren't yet marked.




Further proof that we're overdue to get out and ski - when people get this worked up about the trail map

[mattlucas]

Further proof that we're overdue to get out and ski - when people get this worked up about the trail map

Actually what I think gets me worked up is paid employees of the mountain ringing the company bell.

If they did a statistical analysis that said putting the north map on both sides will result in significantly more skier visits, great, let's keep jedi mind tricking them. If the mountain sees it as a reward for the amount of North Plus passes sold, then why not seize an opportunity to print them their own map. Make it retro, cool, poster sized. Whatever. I just look at things like that as missed opportunities and not brilliance as posters here are always much quicker to suggest.

[win]

My decision on the map, so I love it! Time ski & ride.

ps: I am open to some investors and will allow any investor to help design next year's map! (IUBTIWSUTBB!)

[shadyjay]

ps: I am open to some investors and will allow any investor to help design next year's map! (IUBTIWSUTBB!)

I think Win just gave me a project to kill my time for the next few weeks before I return... design a new map AND decipher the IUBTIWSUTBB at the end of the message.

Don't tell me... I'll figure it out!

[HowieT2]

ps: I am open to some investors and will allow any investor to help design next year's map! (IUBTIWSUTBB!)

I think Win just gave me a project to kill my time for the next few weeks before I return... design a new map AND decipher the IUBTIWSUTBB at the end of the message.

Don't tell me... I'll figure it out!

If
You
By
That
I
Will
Sell
You
To
Bark
Biter

[007]

ps: I am open to some investors and will allow any investor to help design next year's map! (IUBTIWSUTBB!)

I think Win just gave me a project to kill my time for the next few weeks before I return... design a new map AND decipher the IUBTIWSUTBB at the end of the message.

Don't tell me... I'll figure it out!

If
You
By
That
I
Will
Sell
You
To
Bark
Biter

Imaginative segue from Brooklyn-Bridge to Bark-Buster...

[shadyjay]

nevermind... way too confused now :?:

[vonski]

if
you
by
that
I
will
sell
you
the
Brooklyn
Bridge!

Less confused now ShadyJay! :D :lol:

[shadyjay]

sweet... I've always wanted the Brooklyn Bridge! It'll look great next to the.... oh nevermind.


Just bought some new gloves.... ready....set.... let it snow!
(I think we're all ready for some snow now)

[win]

You guys are quick!

[gone.skiing]

I think Win just gave me a project to kill my time for the next few weeks before I return... design a new map AND...

Don't forget the investor bit...

[007]

sweet... I've always wanted the Brooklyn Bridge!


Billy Mays here:
"You get THE Map Design......, THE Bridge........, AND your OWN reserved parking space in the FRONT ROW........., but WAIT..., there's MORRRRRE...., call before midnight tonight and get not only ONE, but TWO parking spaces, that's TWO PARKING SPACES, AND a private locker in the executive boot room. CALL NOW!"
offer expires in the next 34 seconds. not responsible for black toe, thumb jambs, or shin splints. offer only good in southeastern chilean mountains on a weekday that doesn't end in y, during the rainy season.

[shadyjay]

Billy Mays here:
"You get THE Map Design......, THE Bridge........, AND your OWN reserved parking space in the FRONT ROW........., but WAIT..., there's MORRRRRE...., call before midnight tonight and get not only ONE, but TWO parking spaces, that's TWO PARKING SPACES, AND a private locker in the executive boot room. CALL NOW!"
offer expires in the next 34 seconds. not responsible for black toe, thumb jambs, or shin splints. offer only good in southeastern chilean mountains on a weekday that doesn't end in y, during the rainy season.


Wow - 2 PARKING SPACES! Now that's a deal.... but if I get caught in the front row.... :wink: Doesn't matter... I'll be hoofin it.

All for how much? Just 2 easy payments of $29.95! Rush Delivery Available!!! Is that freedom rock? Well, TURN IT UP, MANNNNN!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtYdDK1uTDI

[007]

Billy Mays here:
"You get THE Map Design......, THE Bridge........, AND your OWN reserved parking space in the FRONT ROW........., but WAIT..., there's MORRRRRE...., call before midnight tonight and get not only ONE, but TWO parking spaces, that's TWO PARKING SPACES, AND a private locker in the executive boot room. CALL NOW!"
offer expires in the next 34 seconds. not responsible for black toe, thumb jambs, or shin splints. offer only good in southeastern chilean mountains on a weekday that doesn't end in y, during the rainy season.


Wow - 2 PARKING SPACES! Now that's a deal.... but if I get caught in the front row.... :wink: Doesn't matter... I'll be hoofin it.

All for how much? Just 2 easy payments of $29.95! Rush Delivery Available!!! Is that freedom rock? Well, TURN IT UP, MANNNNN!!!

You may need to move that decimal place six or seven places to gain investor status, but remember, ownership does have its privileges.

[vonski]

Screw the parking spaces, I want cut priviledges on all the lift lines. (sorry could not resist that can of worms) :shock: :D :lol:

[Hardbooter]

(IUBTIWSUTBB!)
You guys are assuming that this was off topic. I think Win is still talking about the woods. I think it's a special 'insiders' message about the way the new woods were cut.

"If upper birdland trees includes willows, some Ukrainian's taste birch bark!"

So, what about the hardwoods? Will the new woods trimming just effect Ukrainian's or other eastern european's as well? Hmm, I've never really noticed any willows on the mountain, but then again I'm not Ukrainian.