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View Full Version : Making lifts more wind resistant at Sugarbush



Oakridge
07-27-2009, 05:03 PM
Well we all know we had alot of wind holds this past season. Sugarloaf (yes the other mountain with the similar name) has indicated that, among other improvements they are making for the upcoming season, they are doing the following:
"Sugarloaf will also work to reduce the effects of wind on its lifts, with new wind fencing at the top of the #3 T-Bar and Double Runner Lift, as well as new sheave train configurations on the SuperQuad."

So my question is what are new sheave train configurations on a super quad?, and maybe if that works, can we implement them at Sugarbush on some of the quads here?

Win??

win
07-27-2009, 06:52 PM
I do know a little about this but will look further into what they are doing. There aren't really simple cost effective answers to wind at the top of mountains in the East. I don't know Sugarloaf well enough to know these lifts and how they are affected. Thanks for the notice!

Hawk
07-28-2009, 06:38 AM
I have got the worst record at that mountain bar none. I have been there about a couple dozen times and have been shut out by wind probably half the time. The Carabasette Valley is like a big funnel for the wind. I would say that Cannon and Wildcat are a close second. The problem with that mountain is that all the lifts have pretty much the same aspect. So when the wind blows up the valley it hits the mountain at about a 45 degree angle and affects all the lifts. At least at SB the lifts are spread out over all different aspects so total shutdown rarely happens.

John Walden
07-28-2009, 07:24 AM
What we have here at Sugarbush is a variety of lifts that have different exposures. When one is on windhold, another lift can be running. That is a plus. When North is on windhold, generally there will be lifts running at South.

I haven't been up to our place since April but have heard that the rain has been relentless. Maybe that means lots of snow this winter or not?

Brew Ski
07-31-2009, 08:11 AM
From my memory of working at K-mart in lift opts many many moons ago, the sheaves are the wheels that the lift lines (ropes) are supported by. At certain towers one can extend the number of sheaves to better support the line(rope) and therefore keep it more stable. Sometimes adding a compression tower (The towers that have sheaves both above and below the lift line) can stabilize the chairs from rocking in a particularly windy spot like the intersection of trails, or where the slope rapidly increases and the tower is above the trees tops.

Basically, longer sheaves at upper towers keeps the chairs from rocking as much, so less impact from wind. This, plus adding large wood slated wind shields running parallel to the lift line near the top can significantly block wind shear, again, by keeping the chairs from rocking. Sugarloaf has several of these near the tops of the mountain for this reason. They do not distract too much from the beauty of a snowy peak, and you can really feel their affect as you pass by. If one of these wind shields was built at the top of Heavens' gate on the skiers right between the liftline and the trees just below the lift shack, two observations would be clear. Less wind scour of the snow on the trail in the open bowl, and less wind holds for the lift.

summitchallenger
07-31-2009, 01:56 PM
If one of these wind shields was built at the top of Heavens' gate on the skiers right between the liftline and the trees just below the lift shack, two observations would be clear. Less wind scour of the snow on the trail in the open bowl, and less wind holds for the lift.

We can't do that.

That would impact the black bear that lives on LP, might kill some birds who get blown into it, and to be honest, someone would consider it offensive to look at. :roll:

:lol:

:wink:

Lostone
07-31-2009, 03:44 PM
If you're talking about a wood fence as high as Heaven's Gate, I'd certainly object to it! That would be real tall, and either very ugly, very expensive, or both. It would probably need large supports extending onto both the trail and wood side.

Also, when was the last time you were on that lift and felt the wind from the left? I think it comes up the hill (as seen by the piles behind the snow fences on Ripcord when they set them up) and from the right. (skiers' left)

And for how many days of wind hold would you be building this? I don't think there are that many days of Heaven's Gate wind hold.

Brew Ski
08-03-2009, 06:35 AM
I was just giving an example of what the wind barriers are and how they work at other resorts from Oakridge's post.

These "wind barriers" are more like billboards. You plant a couple big poles in the ground (Telephone pole size), and run lumber planks (like 2 x 12) across them. You leave a little slated space of a few inches to allow some air movement. The top of the wind barrier is usually ~ 5 ft above the top of the lift line. The point made is correct though, they are kind of big and ugly, but could be painted, say "sky blue" to blend in a bit. The wood and labor isn't very expensive, which is why some resorts choose this method over others.

An alternative method is what Pico did many years ago, which was to blast away part of the peak, and set the towers low to the ground to protect the chairs from the wind, by being closer to the tree line at the top most towers. Visitors are not supposed to ski right under the lift line for the first 100 yards or so, since they could get hit by skis hanging from the lift. This is obviously a very expensive route and really who wants to LOWER the altitude of our Peaks?

Also LostOne is correct, that the wind at Heaven's gate tends to run Up the lift line. Not shear across the peak. Although when there is wind shear, it doesn't really matter what side the wind barrier is on, it works from both directions.

Tin Woodsman
08-04-2009, 08:24 PM
If you're talking about a wood fence as high as Heaven's Gate, I'd certainly object to it! That would be real tall, and either very ugly, very expensive, or both. It would probably need large supports extending onto both the trail and wood side.

Also, when was the last time you were on that lift and felt the wind from the left? I think it comes up the hill (as seen by the piles behind the snow fences on Ripcord when they set them up) and from the right. (skiers' left)

And for how many days of wind hold would you be building this? I don't think there are that many days of Heaven's Gate wind hold.

I'm not sure I follow. Outside of the occasional Nor'easter or Hudson Valley runner, the strongest winds at SB tend to come from the NW. Those are the winds that put lifts on wind holds the day after a storm as it pulls away and either the arctic blast comes in behind it or the storm winds up to a monster in the maritimes. That the wind comes from that vector should be incontrovertible. That's why the snow fences on Ripcord are set up where they are - so they can retain some snow on the upper portion of the trail as opposed to it getting blown into the woods or down the trail by winds screaming over the ridge line.

One solution is too simply lower the last 3-4 towers before the summit where the worst problems are. A snow fence should also be considered, as it would have a secondary benefit of capturing a lot of drifting snow near the top for resurfacing the top of Ripcord. As it would likely be visible from much of Warren, that needs to be examined closely.

shadyjay
08-04-2009, 11:10 PM
Also LostOne is correct, that the wind at Heaven's gate tends to run Up the lift line. Not shear across the peak. Although when there is wind shear, it doesn't really matter what side the wind barrier is on, it works from both directions.

Definetely goes down the HG lift line... seen it. Had to always keep an eye on the chairs down the line, which on a clear day you can easily see the base. Some days, the chairs coming into the top would not be swaying, but they would be halfway down. Same goes for pretty much every lift I ran... wind holds can be caused by conditions not just at the top, but anywhere on the line. And based what I've seen.... no lifts are immune to wind holds... unless you count the "Lincoln Limo".