Can't help you (my Alpine Options store in VT experience)

[gone.skiing]

Date: 3/6/09 10:30 PM
Location: Alpine Options store (at Sugarbush, VT)
Disclaimer: I do not question the fact that business owners should be running their business as they see fit.

Poor planning on my part leaves me in Vermont on Friday night with securely locked roof box while the key to it sits at home in Boston. Roof box contains my sons skis and poles which he will need for Saturday. It is customary to compete in CastleRock Extreme on skis, so I figure we need to come up with a backup plan. Competition is the following day so I do not want to deal with getting skis in the morning. Since Alpine Options is open late I head over there to rent a pair of skis. We have been looking at JR Mantras anyway, so this seems like a good opportunity to check them out. Get to the store and they are somewhat busy, a couple of families are getting rentals. I ask for skis in 125 length, and casually mention that I am looking for something that would work well for the competition. At this point a manager type tells me: "If your kid is doing the competition, I can't help you. Skis are meant to enjoy the snow not tear them up on rocks on Lift Line." He then walks away and young clerk starts working on someone's application. I stand there for a minute, realize that this meeting was over, digest the message and leave the store.

If you are not familiar with the mountain, the comp is held on a natural snow trail with a few boulders and a couple of headwalls where people have to navigate the rocks. Due to recent melt fest rocks are pretty exposed, there is also a couple of grass patches that kids were hucking/skiing over. Obviously the risk to leave some ptex on the hill was there. I would have been Ok with older pair of skis that had been trashed before, damage deposit, paying for full tune if skis got damaged, whatever. However, I was not offered nor did I get a chance to suggest those as potential solution. I am also pretty sure there was a dozen kids in the competition on seasonal rentals from that store.

Moral of the story? Keep your mouth shut and ask for forgiveness not permission...

[Hawk]

That's to bad and a bummer to hear. Joe usually does a good job and is willing to help out. Curious who made that statement. I would think that they would at least rent you some skis with a discalimer that you own the dammage. I will be sure to convey this story to the owner directly and see what he says.....

[noski]

:shock: *gulp* I would be interested in Hawk's findings.

[Fourwide]

That's unfortunate. I've always found everyone at AO to be very helpful and polite. Must have caught someone on a bad evening (but no excuse).

[notorious]

....."ask for forgiveness instead of permission"

.....Never break more than one law at a time.


......There is no limitation on heckling


BTW, I sympathize with your point of view. At this time of year the shops have all kinds of youth demo skis which will be on sale at giveaway prices in a few days, if not already.
Your son's performance in the CRExtreme was outstanding. In another year or two the shops might be looking to sponsor him.

[gone.skiing]

He was very gentle on his skis... There was not reason for the concern.
(Photo by J. Atkinson)

http://forums.alpinezone.com/gallery/data/515/medium/vol53_img105.jpg

[Dawn Patrol]

He was very gentle on his skis... There was not reason for the concern.
(Photo by J. Atkinson)

http://forums.alpinezone.com/gallery/data/515/medium/vol53_img105.jpg

I'm going to guess that when you said they were for the comp that Joe knew pretty much exactly what the skis would go through, and was rightfully insulted. They are HIS skis afterall... Look at the pic, would you want a set of skis that you are looking to sell in the upcoming weeks skiing over that garbage?

Thats like going to a Subaru dealer and telling them you want to test drive a car... But oh by the way, I'm going to go offroad rally racing in it....

[madhavok]

Let’s be realistic here. If your son was skiing castle rock all weekend chances are those skis are definitely being returned with some damage. Returning damaged gear always results in complications and it was probably best for you and the store to not rent the equipment. I’m not saying you wouldn’t step up and pay for the damages but most times people don’t.

That aside I think it would have been fair to offer you the rental if you were willing to purchase the skis in the event they were significantly damaged. Would you have accepted that?

[telepow]

I'm really surprised to hear that, usually those guys are good. Those skis are a drop in the bucket as well, seriously not worth that much. From a business sense those skis have probably been paid for 3 times over. they retail for 200$. He must know how hard your kid rips and knew there would be some granite involved. Next time drop me a line, I'll sponsor him

[gone.skiing]

DP: Great post as usual. Like I said, I completely respect the fact that shop can do whatever they want. However, any shop that rents gear for the season to seasonal kid skier at Sugarbush knows that they will be in the woods and on the rock. That is part of the deal, this is not Okemo. Having a policy (other than we can't help you) for these cases would make sense to me. If I was test driving a car, could I take it on the road or just around the showroom floor?

Madhavok: probably depending on the price. I definitely would have given my credit card as damage deposit. Filling in a couple of scratches is not that expensive. Kids don't gouge them too deep or blow edges like adults. $20 surcharge on top of a punch in the 10 tune card usually returns my adult skis to pristine condition at VT North shop. I can't imagine him doing anything to the skis that $50 won't fix, but that is what rental agreement is for. I am sure it covers all the fine points.

Telepow: thanks man. I will be looking for you. Next time we get snow let's sync up and shoot some pictures.

[Dawn Patrol]

DP: Great post as usual. Like I said, I completely respect the fact that shop can do whatever they want. However, any shop that rents gear for the season to seasonal kid skier at Sugarbush knows that they will be in the woods and on the rock. That is part of the deal, this is not Okemo. Having a policy (other than we can't help you) for these cases would make sense to me. If I was test driving a car, could I take it on the road or just around the showroom floor?

Madhavok: probably depending on the price. I definitely would have given my credit card as damage deposit. Filling in a couple of scratches is not that expensive. Kids don't gouge them too deep or blow edges like adults. $20 surcharge on top of a punch in the 10 tune card usually returns my adult skis to pristine condition at VT North shop. I can't imagine him doing anything to the skis that $50 won't fix, but that is what rental agreement is for. I am sure it covers all the fine points.

Telepow: thanks man. I will be looking for you. Next time we get snow let's sync up and shoot some pictures. Seems to me you went into a place you dont frequent, told the guy you were going to be skiing rocky exposed terrain and he didnt want to rent to you. Now you're complaining about it on the interwebs but maintaining he has every right to not serve you. ps the lg dare SUCKS at the internet..

[Dawn Patrol]

DP: Great post as usual. Like I said, I completely respect the fact that shop can do whatever they want. However, any shop that rents gear for the season to seasonal kid skier at Sugarbush knows that they will be in the woods and on the rock. That is part of the deal, this is not Okemo. Having a policy (other than we can't help you) for these cases would make sense to me. If I was test driving a car, could I take it on the road or just around the showroom floor?

Madhavok: probably depending on the price. I definitely would have given my credit card as damage deposit. Filling in a couple of scratches is not that expensive. Kids don't gouge them too deep or blow edges like adults. $20 surcharge on top of a punch in the 10 tune card usually returns my adult skis to pristine condition at VT North shop. I can't imagine him doing anything to the skis that $50 won't fix, but that is what rental agreement is for. I am sure it covers all the fine points.

Telepow: thanks man. I will be looking for you. Next time we get snow let's sync up and shoot some pictures. You didnt ask for a seasonal rental. you asked for a daily rental on a particular day and trail where ski damage was highly probable... Not to mention you were likely the tenth person looking for skis for the comp that day...

[gone.skiing]

With your signature line you are lecturing me about complaining on the internet....

[Lostone]

I don't know how all shops handle it, but I know at least one that offers insurance. If you don't get it, you pay for any damage.

I really don't understand why he wouldn't be willing to just rent them with that understanding.

I have heard only good about the shop, so am surprised to hear this. Sounds like a bad business decision as it would have been so easy to make you happy and keep himself protected.



On another side, I know Rick, at Ski Sharp used to let you demo his skis with the understanding that it was not an all day demo. You took them for a few runs. He asked that you only skied the snowmaking trails. But he didn't charge you for the demo. I have no idea if he still does this.

[barkbiter]

That shop has a strict NO RUSSIANS ! rule.
No rubles accepted.

[HowieT2]

I can see them not wanting to rent you skis for the comp since they probably assumed you had skis and were just looking for a pair to trash on the rocks. Plus, I'd imagine working the shop late on a friday night can be exhausting.

Is it true Inverness is for sale?

[gone.skiing]

I can see them not wanting to rent you skis for the comp since they probably assumed you had skis and were just looking for a pair to trash on the rocks. Plus, I'd imagine working the shop late on a friday night can be exhausting.

We are talking Junior skis, not adult.

[Dawn Patrol]

I don't know how all shops handle it, but I know at least one that offers insurance. If you don't get it, you pay for any damage.

I really don't understand why he wouldn't be willing to just rent them with that understanding.

I have heard only good about the shop, so am surprised to hear this. Sounds like a bad business decision as it would have been so easy to make you happy and keep himself protected.



On another side, I know Rick, at Ski Sharp used to let you demo his skis with the understanding that it was not an all day demo. You took them for a few runs. He asked that you only skied the snowmaking trails. But he didn't charge you for the demo. I have no idea if he still does this.

The policy at Alpine, for adult demo's anyway, is $40 a day. If you purchase skis from him in the end, he'll subtract your demo costs from the ski. I don't work for Alpine, but having worked at a ski shop I can tell you that the idea of charging people who damage demos works on principle, but not in practice. Realistically, you can't photograph every ski that goes out the door every time. And when a customer brings back a trashed pair of skis (which they do, allllllll the time) you don't have much recourse when they say they got them like that. I'm not saying going.skiing wouldn't pay, but he did roll into a shop he's never really shopped at before and ask to demo skis for his kid (arguably worse than adults when it comes to wrecking skis) and ask to demo them for an extreme ski competition... The shop employee probably had 10 other people make the same request, was working late, and fed up with it. Alpine Options is a wonderful shop with great people. I'm sure if you had a history of making purchases with them, they'd have hooked you up.

[Hawk]

In the end this is not a discussion about the policy of renting skis. I am sure if Gone.skiing pressed the shop they would have rented to him with all the caveats mentioned in this thread. Also I agree that a young boy weighing what 90 lbs??, would not cause much damage.

The point of this thread is the behavior of the sales clerk. If what he said were true and the manor in which he said it, then that is not acceptable. I didn't see Joe on Friday night so I am not sure he was there. What I will say is that customer service is what he pushes. Personally I would have asked for the manager with a response like that.

After some bad experiences at other shops I started bringing all my business to Joe and have spent WAY to much money there. :shock: My treatment has always been courteous and very professional. I hate to see the attitude of one employee influence so many. I am sure he will want to know what happened.

[ahm]

Most stories have two sides to the coin. Doing an incredible amount of business with Alpine Options since they arrived in the valley and knowing, liking and respecting all of the staff at a personal level, I find it hard to believe that their response was as described. Possibly, just maybe, how the request was "presented" may have been a factor in how they responded. Possibly, explaining the situation: ie I have locked my son's boards in the box and the key is at home and I would like to rent some skis for him for the comp. I will cover all damages to the skis including buying them if they are trashed might have started the conversation off on the right foot. Finally, I think AO should have a chance to respond just so we see both sides of the story.

[gone.skiing]

DP: Just so I get it right, to be first class citizen at AO you need to purchase a lot of stuff from them. Is that what you are saying? What is your problem with Claybrook policy then? Also for the 3rd time, just for you... We are talking about kids rental skis not high end adult demos.

ahm, I did not really get a chance to get conversation going because the response was short and sweet. Prior to asking for rental I did ask if they had a master key to open a thule roof box so that was sort of a hint. I honestly did not realize this was an issue I had to dance around and prepare a sales pitch on.

[muddy_hollow]

Did your son eventually ski the challenge?

I agree with your assessment, don't give out to much information. At the end of the day, if your son had rented and skied all day on Castle Rock they'd probably have just as much damage. This time of year, rental skis are bound to come back with some scrapes and scratches. Last time I rented, there was a deposit and if the bottoms were trashed you run the risk having to negotiate with the shop.

Your story reminds me that with kids it's always something; forgotten pants, poles, missing a mask. Moral of the story, get doubles if possible... keep a spare set of dedicated keys in the glove box along with some dramamine for the ride up :)

Hope it all worked out for you.

[Dawn Patrol]

DP: Just so I get it right, to be first class citizen at AO you need to purchase a lot of stuff from them. Is that what you are saying? What is your problem with Claybrook policy then? Also for the 3rd time, just for you... We are talking about kids rental skis not high end adult demos.

ahm, I did not really get a chance to get conversation going because the response was short and sweet. Prior to asking for rental I did ask if they had a master key to open a thule roof box so that was sort of a hint. I honestly did not realize this was an issue I had to dance around and prepare a sales pitch on.

???

I said a history of making purchases. Which, if you really want to compare it to the Claybrook situation fine....

Person has a history of shopping at a ski shop.
Person has been skiing Sugarbush for years.

'new money' comes in in the form of claybrook, they get to cut
'new money' walks into the shop in the form of you, asking for a favor...


Just out of curiousity, where were your skis?

[madhavok]

DP: Just so I get it right, to be first class citizen at AO you need to purchase a lot of stuff from them. Is that what you are saying? What is your problem with Claybrook policy then? Also for the 3rd time, just for you... We are talking about kids rental skis not high end adult demos.

ahm, I did not really get a chance to get conversation going because the response was short and sweet. Prior to asking for rental I did ask if they had a master key to open a thule roof box so that was sort of a hint. I honestly did not realize this was an issue I had to dance around and prepare a sales pitch on.



The problem with Claybrook is that line cutting is not an amenity that has ANYTHING to do owning a condo. You buy a condo you get the property, valet parking, the lounge, pool, etc. These are standard amenities condos all across the world have. What you don’t pay for and shouldn’t get is a first class privilege to ride up a chair lift before other customers who have paid for the same service.

I’m sure AO treated all customers who wanted demos for the Castlerock extreme equally. Not sure why you had to bring up Claybrook. Good job.

[freeheel_skier]

^^^^^

Let's stay on topic.....

[notorious]

Maybe everything useful has been said.

Symptoms of powder deprivation so soon?

I guess my wife is right. We are all whack-jobs.

[HowieT2]

Maybe everything useful has been said.

Symptoms of powder deprivation so soon?

I guess my wife is right. We are all whack-jobs.

Definitely. Every time there is a thaw, things go haywire.

[noski]

I guess my wife is right. We are all whack-jobs.

I never had any doubt ;)

[jwt]

a locksmith might have cost $50? or better yet a screwdriver and replacement lock for $35 with bungie cords wrapped for the ride home?

Use AO a lot, customer service has been great - everyone has a bad day - did your youngin' do well? Please keep the story for him when he wuill really appreciate your efforts - like when he has kids.

second set in glovebox ( or better yet on your keychain)is the best reponse/answer. We always can help people on this list when it is 20/20 hindsight.

Someone famous said ' I spend most of my time skiing, the rest of life is just wasted.'

[Yard Sale]

There are 2 sides to every story/disagreement/miscomunication. I have always liked AO. So, I am surprised to hear of your experience. A screwdriver and duct tape can solve all sorts of problems. I had a similar experience with my box in december and had to pop the lock and tape it up. The photos of the young ripper look great.

[007]

GS, not an attempt to squelch your legit gripe and frustration, but might I suggest stopping by and having a "private" chat with the owner at AO during a slow time, to let him know personally...... He has alway been known as a fair guy and would probably appreciate hearing this from you directly. You just might be suprised at the outcome, and even if you never went back there again at least the air would be clear.....
Just an idea.

PS Not plugging or downgrading AO, and I personally don't go there only because I am taken care of VERY VERY well by another local shop......

[djd66]

a locksmith might have cost $50? or better yet a screwdriver and replacement lock for $35 with bungie cords wrapped for the ride home?'

That was the first thing I thought of - why didn't you just hack the lock open w/ a screw driver? Those locks cost $10 at any home depot

[win]

I agree with 007. Joe is a really good guy and has run a very good busy here for many years. Good owners like Joe always need and want to hear feedback so that they can fix something if it goes wrong.

[RedneckMutha]

The skis belong to Alpine Options! They can rent them out under their own terms of business. Lets face up to the truth that most people who rent stuff don't care if they wreck it cause it ain't their own! You got NO BEEF and no business using this forum as your soapbox in this situation. Can't ya pick a lock? ................RedNeck Mutha

[gone.skiing]

The skis belong to Alpine Options! They can rent them out under their own terms of business. Lets face up to the truth that most people who rent stuff don't care if they wreck it cause it ain't their own! You got NO BEEF and no business using this forum as your soapbox in this situation. Can't ya pick a lock? ................RedNeck Mutha

Looks like we got a barkbiter wanna be. You failed miserably. Work on some new material and try again...

[Lostone]

You got NO BEEF and no business using this forum as your soapbox in this situation.

I disagree. When people get good or bad customer service, this is a legitimate place to report it. Others can see it and act as they see fit. You'll notice that the opposite opinion of their regular service has also been expressed.


The skis belong to Alpine Options! They can rent them out under their own terms of business.

That was expressed in gone.skiing's first paragraph, but that is no reason for bad customer service. They could have explained their policies. They can leave it as they did, should they wish. They have that right.

He has the right to report his feelings about the same.

My $.02.


And gone.skiing, Redneck is a handle (with same posting style) from back in the RSN days. Doubt that he is Barkbiter.

[Strat]

You got NO BEEF and no business using this forum as your soapbox in this situation.

I disagree. When people get good or bad customer service, this is a legitimate place to report it. Others can see it and act as they see fit. You'll notice that the opposite opinion of their regular service has also been expressed.


The skis belong to Alpine Options! They can rent them out under their own terms of business.

That was expressed in gone.skiing's first paragraph, but that is no reason for bad customer service. They could have explained their policies. They can leave it as they did, should they wish. They have that right.

He has the right to report his feelings about the same.

My $.02.


And gone.skiing, Redneck is a handle (with same posting style) from back in the RSN days. Doubt that he is Barkbiter.
Oh the RSN days (not to digress too much)...
That was actually quite a while ago. I remember discussing the collapse of the Lodge at Lincoln Peak project, and the Old Man of the Mountain falling...

[Fourwide]

"Oh the RSN days (not to digress too much)...
That was actually quite a while ago. I remember discussing the collapse of the Lodge at Lincoln Peak project, and the Old Man of the Mountain falling..."

...and the ridiculous (and endless) "Whiteface vs. Sugarbush" debate! (Let's stop talking about this for fear of "Ghost" and others returning to haunt us!)

[MntMan4Bush]

There is always another side to the story. Let's be realistic here. Did the clerk respond and run away so quickly that you couldn't offer to take a pair of older demos as you mentioned you would be willing to on the thread. I mean he would have had to start sprinting, hop the counter and slam the office door faster then Ricky Henderson stealing 3rd. I think maybe you're remembering the experience a little differently because you were so frustrated to begin with that night.

Part of it may have been that you often need to reserve demos ahead of time to get the ski you want in the size you want especially this time of year. My wife and I demo'd this weekend and even though we reserved two pairs for her, one was purchased and they didn't have it in her size any more. No big deal it happens. If you wanted the Mantras specifically and asked for them they might have been all out.

I go to AO specifically for the customer service and will go no where else. Somewhere between your story and the clerks lies what actually happened which was unfortunate. Definitely not the norm at AO.

Lastly TMI. If you knew the skis you wanted just walk in and say "We want to demo the Mantra JRs". Done. A part of you had to know that renting or demo-ing for the comp would raise an eye brow a bit. If they didn't have the Mantras you could have grabbed another. I've seen your kid out there skiing. He could handle what ever they gave him pretty well. No word of the competition needed to be mentioned at all.

[Jester]

This thread has nothing to do with sugarbush. Why is it on this post? In fairness to alpine options it should have been dropped or moved immediately. Seems biased??

[freeheel_skier]

This thread has nothing to do with sugarbush. Why is it on this post? In fairness to alpine options it should have been dropped or moved immediately. Seems biased??

You have a point.

But way to go breathing life back into a dead thread. :wink:

[Lostone]

He was talking the about the shop on the access road, which is closest to Sugarbush than anywhere else and was looking for skis for the Castlerock Extreme.

In my judgment, that makes it close enough for government work. :roll:

As for bias, I have no bias against Alpine Options. I've bought less there than all the other area shops, but that is simply because they've had nothing to interest me, or were too busy with others to show me anything that might, when I was in there. I bear then no ill will.

[Jester]

I think Sugarbush has their own shop so if it doesn't involve that shop leave the other shops out of this thread. So it really isn't the closest to the mountain and i believe there's a shop in the village also. Since it didn't involve the Sugarbush shop it should have been dropped. In these tough times we should support our local shops and drop any negative threads about them. Unless what happened at a local shop was completely out of line. This matter seems like a misunderstanding betweeen two people which happens in any shop from time to time.

A thread about helmet safety was dropped or moved and since saftey is important to all ski resorts it should have stay in this section just to keep people informed that the smallest fall should be taken seriously. I believe that was the important message that should have been taken out of that post.

[madhavok]

If the topic isn't related to Sugarbush resort it should be moved to either the Mad River Valley board or the miscellaneous board. If non Sugarbush related material was posted in the correct boards they'd get read more often. It would be beneficial because this board would be less cluttered with non-Sugarbush material and the other boards would get more action. Clearly the Sugarbush aspect of this thread is just a side note, not the main topic so it would be a great candidate for another board. However I highly doubt this thread was kept in the Sugarbush board because of any kind of bias.

[Jester]

Just wondering why a saftey topic gets flagged and a local shop gets tagged?

[Lostone]

1) the room isn't for the resort, but for the general mountain.

B) I didn't say it was the closest to Sugarbush, but that it was closest to Sugarbush, meaning that it was closer to here than MRG or... Okemo?

III) Which ones I move and which ones I don't is a judgment call. You may agree with my judgment... You may not.

[Jester]

Again a local ski shop doesn't need to be threaded with neg stuff in these hard times. Out of respect for someone just trying to make a living in these hard times it should have not even been posted. Its good to know the you feel it is more important to put down a local shop then keep info up that may safe just one life.

[Lostone]

The post had to do with the honest opinion of one of their customers. I encourage people to report how they are treated. If there are a number of people who feel the opposite, as was the case here, they will say so.

Regardless in his reasons for doing so, I would have to say that were I to be treated the same, I would consider it bad customer service. There were a number of other ways they could have handled it. Many of them were brought out, in this thread.

The adage, "If you like something you'll tell a friend. If you don't, you'll tell 5." is not anything new. In the interweb world, it can be amplified, greatly.

I believe it to be a valid subject. I did not edit any posts.

In fact this thread was almost buried until you brought it back up. So if you are complaining about the visibility of his complaints... :?

[Hawk]

This thread was dead and buried until you started your rant. Joe is aware of this and has addressed it I have been told. Now let it die again please.