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MntMan4Bush
02-09-2009, 09:28 AM
So ummmmm anyone else notice something on Saturday???

I have no problems with lifts being closed for windhold/safety reasons. That's out of the mountains control, but what was up with North Lynx and Valley House? A dozen or so yellow jackets up in the top with wrenches flying seems less like wind issues. Why do we have so many maintenance issues with the lifts? Instead of dropping coin on a cat to bring people up for dinners, adding more lodging, anti-PITA day care, etc how about spending some time/money on the lifts. I'm certain that's an unfair statement and money and time is being spent, but what is the dollar amount associated with getting them running a couple weekends in a row without issues and where's the hat being passed around to support it. I say put all other planning on hold and get the lifts running consistently. The lines this weekend were crazy and only exasperated by the fact that lifts were down for mechanical issues.

As an attempt to deter the normal posted comments that would follow a post like this:

- No the lifts were not down for just 5 minutes and yes it did effect the overall wait times. Especially when you hear rumors/statements that lifts are back up, you run over to them to ride up and they're down again.

- On a normally crowded day my lift management plan is to head over to North however I definitely wasn't expecting such a big crowd with Prez weekend next weekend so I started at South and when I wanted to get over to North the SBX was down (surprise) and the North Lynx was down so I couldn't scoot through the trees to get there. No way I was standing on the bus to get over. My friend did de-boot and drive over and said the lines were better, but come on. If all the lifts that could have been running given conditions were running then silly work arounds like that wouldn't be necessary.

- To be honest I'm starting to doubt some Wind Holds. Sure Saturday was windy and I believe everything was on wind hold legit, but I've seen North Ridge go on "Wind hold" and saw people toting parts down on a snow mobile from it. It's creating a Boy Who Cried Wolf effect for me.

There. It's been said. Sorry, but it's what was on my mind and many others. To take a hockey term I'd say this Saturday was Bush League. Apologists have at me.

summitchallenger
02-09-2009, 09:47 AM
So ummmmm anyone else notice something on Saturday???

I have no problems with lifts being closed for windhold/safety reasons. That's out of the mountains control, but what was up with North Lynx and Valley House? A dozen or so yellow jackets up in the top with wrenches flying seems less like wind issues. Why do we have so many maintenance issues with the lifts? Instead of dropping coin on a cat to bring people up for dinners, adding more lodging, anti-PITA day care, etc how about spending some time/money on the lifts. I'm certain that's an unfair statement and money and time is being spent, but what is the dollar amount associated with getting them running a couple weekends in a row without issues and where's the hat being passed around to support it. I say put all other planning on hold and get the lifts running consistently. The lines this weekend were crazy and only exasperated by the fact that lifts were down for mechanical issues.

As an attempt to deter the normal posted comments that would follow a post like this:

- No the lifts were not down for just 5 minutes and yes it did effect the overall wait times. Especially when you hear rumors/statements that lifts are back up, you run over to them to ride up and they're down again.

- On a normally crowded day my lift management plan is to head over to North however I definitely wasn't expecting such a big crowd with Prez weekend next weekend so I started at South and when I wanted to get over to North the SBX was down (surprise) and the North Lynx was down so I couldn't scoot through the trees to get there. No way I was standing on the bus to get over. My friend did de-boot and drive over and said the lines were better, but come on. If all the lifts that could have been running given conditions were running then silly work arounds like that wouldn't be necessary.

- To be honest I'm starting to doubt some Wind Holds. Sure Saturday was windy and I believe everything was on wind hold legit, but I've seen North Ridge go on "Wind hold" and saw people toting parts down on a snow mobile from it. It's creating a Boy Who Cried Wolf effect for me.

There. It's been said. Sorry, but it's what was on my mind and many others. To take a hockey term I'd say this Saturday was Bush League. Apologists have at me.

I was stuck on North Lynx two times Saturday afternoon at about 1:15 and 1:30 pm. Both times, I assume, was due to the wind, which was really, really bad at the summit. I was not aware of any other issues. I will say that when I check the snow reports, I am seeing "mechanical hold" become more and more of a catchphrase. One thing to consider is that the last new lift to be installed was GMX, and that was in 2002. Before that, we had:

*Castlerock in 2001.
*Bravo, Slidebrook, GH, and North Lynx/NRX Retrofits 1995 (?)
*Original GMX installed in 1991, along with Inverness, Summit Quads.
*Original Bravo and Heaven's Gate, installed in 1984.
*Valley House, Sunny D, and Village--197* or 196*???

My point: the lifts are getting older.....and any replacement/work will be costly.

MntMan4Bush
02-09-2009, 09:53 AM
I think that's my point too so my question is how is this being addressed and when can we expect focus on them. I see a lot of emails about future plans for buildings and programs, but without lifts those seem pointless and superfluous.

madhavok
02-09-2009, 10:53 AM
Add some money to the "stimulus" (aka pork bill) for some new chair lifts!

vonski
02-09-2009, 10:58 AM
Add some money to the "stimulus" (aka pork bill) for some new chair lifts!

I agree, it would be infrastructure development on National Forest!!!

sgottmann
02-09-2009, 11:23 AM
I think that's my point too so my question is how is this being addressed and when can we expect focus on them. I see a lot of emails about future plans for buildings and programs, but without lifts those seem pointless and superfluous.

I agree that working and reliable lifts should come first. All mafor lifts need to run at SB there is not top to bottom lift (not feasible). The "pod" skiing system breaks down when HG (or North Lynx) is down due to wind or otherwise. The winds this year have been tough and hopefully that's all it is.

How about a Chondola on SBX? Every third chair as a gondola?

freeheel_skier
02-09-2009, 12:18 PM
So ummmmm anyone else notice something on Saturday???

I have no problems with lifts being closed for windhold/safety reasons. That's out of the mountains control, but what was up with North Lynx and Valley House? A dozen or so yellow jackets up in the top with wrenches flying seems less like wind issues. Why do we have so many maintenance issues with the lifts? Instead of dropping coin on a cat to bring people up for dinners, adding more lodging, anti-PITA day care, etc how about spending some time/money on the lifts. I'm certain that's an unfair statement and money and time is being spent, but what is the dollar amount associated with getting them running a couple weekends in a row without issues and where's the hat being passed around to support it. I say put all other planning on hold and get the lifts running consistently. The lines this weekend were crazy and only exasperated by the fact that lifts were down for mechanical issues.

As an attempt to deter the normal posted comments that would follow a post like this:

- No the lifts were not down for just 5 minutes and yes it did effect the overall wait times. Especially when you hear rumors/statements that lifts are back up, you run over to them to ride up and they're down again.

- On a normally crowded day my lift management plan is to head over to North however I definitely wasn't expecting such a big crowd with Prez weekend next weekend so I started at South and when I wanted to get over to North the SBX was down (surprise) and the North Lynx was down so I couldn't scoot through the trees to get there. No way I was standing on the bus to get over. My friend did de-boot and drive over and said the lines were better, but come on. If all the lifts that could have been running given conditions were running then silly work arounds like that wouldn't be necessary.

- To be honest I'm starting to doubt some Wind Holds. Sure Saturday was windy and I believe everything was on wind hold legit, but I've seen North Ridge go on "Wind hold" and saw people toting parts down on a snow mobile from it. It's creating a Boy Who Cried Wolf effect for me.

There. It's been said. Sorry, but it's what was on my mind and many others. To take a hockey term I'd say this Saturday was Bush League. Apologists have at me.

VH was running in the am or was it my imagination(not being sarcastic)? I didn't do much skiing at all on Sat. Mostly shuttling kids from lessons to daycare etc. Otherwise I would have been with the rest of my peeps @ ME. So my observations are skewed.

As for winholds it was blowing pretty good on Sat and only got worse. I believe the winds were out of the SE and will affect Lincoln Peak more than ME.

Was the issue with the NRE wind or mechanical?

vonski
02-09-2009, 12:26 PM
Was the issue with the NRE wind or mechanical?

There was an electrical problem in morning delayed opening by about 1/2 hour, then went on windhold around 2 or so in the afternoon. So Both!!!

MntMan4Bush
02-09-2009, 12:33 PM
Valley House was running in the AM. It went down in the afternoon though and the lines were still stacked even at the end of the day. People apparently didn't get the memo on Saturday that they should go in for lunch at lunch time and finish skiing at about 2 so the rest of us can have our mountain back....... :lol: It was a testament to the nice spring like conditions that day on natural snow trails. By nice I mean it was fun to ski, but sad to see teh snow go.

The VH went down as a result of mechanical. I was a couple people back when it did and it didn't come back up after. I can't think of a more protected chair from the wind. NL went down for mechanical as well. There was a crew of 10 or so guys in the loft when I skated off of GH. The guy said it was down for Mechanical, but that Heaven's Gate just opened back up so we raced down, sat in SB line for a good time and over to HG to have it sitting idle. now HG I believe was on wind hold and understand that. Same with SBX (Even though it's already Feb and that lift has only been open 1 day this season).

So in summary I have no issue with wind hold, provided it's a real wind hold and not an excuse to cover mechanical (read: NR chair early season). Safety comes first and it's Mountain Ops call to shut down for wind. Arguing their judgment is like trying to pose an argument against Ski Patrol being able to cut in line or trying to pull a Philly Cheese steak out of Rosie O'Donnell's hands. Fruitless. The issue is with all the mechanical problems this season.

Yard Sale
02-09-2009, 12:57 PM
MM4B-

Your observations on this matter seem pretty spot on. I was stuck on the CR chair for about 10 minutes. I presume it was a mechanical issue.

Lostone
02-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Quick answer is that things break.

They do maintenance inspections during the off-season. I have seen them working on each of the lifts at South, at various times. That won't catch everything. When things break, they jump.

Whether you believe it or not, most lifts run almost all of the time they are supposed to. On days like Saturday, then there are peak crowds and peak winds (and people don't get the lunchtime and early closing memos?) every stop becomes more apparent. Not much can be done about that, except to point out that they are moving on it as soon as they can.



As for North Lynx, early season, the problem was snow. That was the last pod to get snowmaking, and some areas had to be redone, due to weather. They ran it once, before the snow was made, but they quickly ran out of snow. It seemed like there was enough, but one warm day and both outside trails were mostly brown.

MntMan4Bush
02-09-2009, 04:50 PM
Fair enough that things break, but it is a huge hit to the mountain that they happen to break at the worst times. It seems to me that the number of outages this season has been higher then normal and I would attribute that to maintenance. I don't mean to knock the team doing it as I'm sure they're working hard, but has the mountain budgeted in for the right repairs and upgrades to make it work? When something breaks it's an indication that it needs to be fixed because either it was a rare accident or result of lack of long term maintenance. If it's the former there's little that can be done. If it's the later then there's an issue.

"Most lifts run all of the time they are supposed to". I choose to not believe it. Or actually to put it more accurately that if you are measuring time in minutes and out of maybe 3k minutes in a given week that a lift is supposed to be running it is then I'd believe you. The percentage would be in your favor. However if you measure in a span of how many days does the mountain go without a lift being down I'd have to argue. If you were to limit that to weekends only when we see most of the volume and it is more evident and likely matters the most then it would be hard to not agree with me.

Lunch time and leaving early memos was a joke. By that I mean sometimes the best times to ski are when everyone goes in for lunch and the lines shrink and after 2 PM when people are getting their early drink on. This Saturday people evidently didn't follow Standard Operating Procedure.

North Lynx early season I think was actually North Ridge early season. NR was definitely mechanical issues early season. NL I'll buy that it was coverage issues with the exception of the weekend before it opened up. There was a ton of snow up there, plus they were blowing. My friends and I hiked up to do the Brook and snow depth was not an issue. You could have lost a midget with a top hat on in that stuff. .

Strat
02-09-2009, 05:12 PM
They are looking for a new lift mechanic (http://www.sugarbush.com/aboutus/job.asp?id=428)... maybe they're understaffed right now? Hard to know if that would translate to whatever situation we may or may not have without knowing the real inner workings of maintenance though...

castlerock
02-09-2009, 05:45 PM
This thread is just another example of how this board is becoming useless....
It was blowing 50....I have never seen wind at the top of Bravo like on Saturday. They ran the damn lift at 3/4, just so they could keep it open. Do you think they wanted the wind holds? Do you you think they wanted the joeys asking for their money back because they were too lazy to go to North (and they were exhausted after skiing an hour and intimidated by the big scary wind). Stop the madness. Just shut up

skierdon
02-09-2009, 06:26 PM
I agree that Sugarbush did a tremendous job keeping the lifts open on Saturday given the incredible winds. Mechanical problems are quit common and if you spend enough time at a given resort you will notice that. I spent a season at Big Sky and we had one lift down for a few months because it caught fire, the base gondola was broken on and off half the season, and one of the other main base lifts was down the second half of the seasons. Could they spend more $ and have some silly Chondola? Sure. Do you want to pay $10 more a day for it?

After the Castlerock line got long we scooted over to North (took 5 minutes) and had a great day with no lines and good conditions. I'm sorry you were not picked up by a magical carpet and taken over there, but some things in life take initiative. I guess attitudes like that keep the lines shorter for the rest of us.

shadyjay
02-09-2009, 06:49 PM
I feel everyone's pain in regards to the lift situation over the weekend. Both lifts I was working at went down. NL's issue on Sat was mechanical, and around 3:15 or so, we went on wind hold. On Sunday, we had more mechanical issues with Gate House, which led to its early closing. Our lift mechanics are great and they get the job done... I know of one who came in during the evening hours after going home to solve a lift issue. That's commitment... something we all have to have. If we don't act, then you won't get up the hill and have fun. Talking with the dispatcher from the weekend this morning, she had quite a predicament on her hands, with multiple lift issues, wind and mechanical. Few lifts operated flawlessly the whole weekend (carpet?). I assure you, the winds on Saturday and Sunday were brutal. On Sunday, the sky turned dark in the morning hours and we got hit with a heavy snow squall at top of Gate House. It helped to make our ramps look a little nicer. But with it came the wind... during which we monitor the chairs moving up the hill and observe any swaying. Bases of most lifts also have wind speed/direction units (forgot the official name). Direction plays a big part... for North Lynx, if the wind is coming down the line, its generally ok. If after observing the chairs sway, we call for a wind check. If that person declares its too windy, they clear the line and put the lift on a wind hold, monitoring the situation every so often to reopen as soon as it is safe to.

Especially on a busy day like on Saturday, us "upper mountain" lift ops don't always know the status of every lift on the mountain. On a good day, we can call dispatch and get the word, but with only one dispatcher on duty dealing with phone calls, radio, paperwork, etc, an operator calling to find out the status of a lift is not always possible. Therefore we resort to either the "visual" (I can see Heaven's Gate from here, its moving, and there's people on it), or the hearsay method. Both are subject to change. Only our supervisors carry radios with them so we rely on what we hear from them. However if HG is on windhold or mechanical delay, a North Lynx operator isn't going to know right away, vs a Super Bravo operator which would know and post it on his/her whiteboard. When in doubt, guest services would know what is going on.

I hope this explains things a little more. There's A LOT that goes on behind the scenes that you're not going to know while riding the lift, waiting in line, etc. Rest assured that each and every one of us has a goal and that's to get you up the mountain as safely and as quick as possible. We regret any inconveniences and delays.

Lostone
02-09-2009, 07:37 PM
Or actually to put it more accurately that if you are measuring time in minutes and out of maybe 3k minutes in a given week that a lift is supposed to be running it is then I'd believe you.

That would be how you would determine if something was working most of the time.


However if you measure in a span of how many days does the mountain go without a lift being down I'd have to argue.

With the amount of lifts and an 8 hour day, I'd find that hard to argue against. My point would be that would not be considered odd in the least, in any resort/ski area.


If you were to limit that to weekends only when we see most of the volume and it is more evident and likely matters the most then it would be hard to not agree with me.

If you only monitor it for 5 minutes, and it was down for one of those minutes it would be down for 20% of the time. In my engineering life, we'd have called that very selective monitoring of the data. We would say that was bad data.

It is one of the axioms of Murphy's law that shoe laces only break when you are going somewhere. You're right. It was a terrible time for the lifts to go down. They jumped to try to get them back on line. Now, had it been a weekday... They would have jumped to try to get them back on line.


has the mountain budgeted in for the right repairs and upgrades to make it work? When something breaks it's an indication that it needs to be fixed because either it was a rare accident or result of lack of long term maintenance. If it's the former there's little that can be done. If it's the later then there's an issue.

I would agree. I have stated that I have seen maintenance done in the off season. I believe the problem to be the former situation. Is there some data that you have, that there was an insufficient budget for maintenance?

And I recognized the lunchtime vacancies was a joke, as was my response.

Lostone
02-09-2009, 07:45 PM
This thread is just another example of how this board is becoming useless....

I disagree.

These points are debated everywhere, (Like in the liftline, when the lift goes down? ;shock: ) and I think it is good to get both (all?) sides aired. It is on of the purposes of the board(s).

Will it solve anything?

How can it? :roll: :wink:

djd66
02-09-2009, 07:49 PM
This thread is just another example of how this board is becoming useless....
It was blowing 50....I have never seen wind at the top of Bravo like on Saturday. They ran the damn lift at 3/4, just so they could keep it open. Do you think they wanted the wind holds? Do you you think they wanted the joeys asking for their money back because they were too lazy to go to North (and they were exhausted after skiing an hour and intimidated by the big scary wind). Stop the madness. Just shut up

CR - Look, I was on the SB lift on Saturday too, I agree the wind was something! I had to pull my 4 y/o daughter off of the lift like she was stcuk on velco b/c the wind was so strong,... BUT I have to say I agree with a lot of what Mtman says. I went over to NL right after we rode SB. The lift shut off for what seemed like 5-10 minutes 3 time when i was on it. Then it shut down and there were a bunch of guys working on it.

It does seem to me that there are a lot of lift break downs at SB. In my 35 years of skiing many areas - I think the Bush has more lift stoppage B/C of breakdown than any other area I ski. This is not based on anything but my experience.

As far as "Joey's asking for money back, I guess I don't blame someone asking for money or a voucher - when there are only 2 lift going and I paid $70+ for a ticket - and some of the lifts are shut down for mechanical reasons.

As far as your comment "too lazy" to go to North, let me ask you - DO YOU HAVE KIDS????? Even if you don't have kids, Did you drive 3.5 -7 hrs already to get to the Bush (depending on where you came from) Is that Lazy if spent say $300+ on tickets and you don't want to get back in your car again?

Lastly, I don't think this board is useless at all. I get a lot of good information and appreciate the fact that the owner of the mountain reads the posts.

MntMan4Bush
02-09-2009, 09:18 PM
CastleRock your insight and attitude are most helpful. Please keep it up. If you can answer me a question though, Is it lonely up there on your pedestal? Stow the theatrics and high and mighty attitude. Lift closings suck. Lifts that go down for wind I have no issue with as I have stated throughout my posts. Nothing can be done about that and it's a reality we have to deal with. I stayed the full day and skied to the end. I wasn't a one and done because I wanted to ski and get in s many turns despite the line conditions. Know your audience.

What is pointless is telling someone to shut up on a thread who's purpose is for information sharing and gathering.

5 minutes to North? What the hell are you driving? F1 McClaren? Do you find it hard to push in the clutch with ski boots on? I'll bet it handles corners like Foxworthy handles grammar.

MntMan4Bush
02-09-2009, 09:29 PM
Lostone - I guess my point was that if a lift goes down on a weekend with a limited crowd then the effects aren't as dramatic. Crowd maintenance isn't as bad of an issue and no one walks away feeling they had a bad day (Well I guess you can't please all so the majority don't feel that way). However the weekends are when new people come to the mountain to scope things out and spend some coin. If they show up and the lifts go down their impression is going to be less then favorable. It's these days that fall under the microscope most and are what the mountain needs to be prepared for. Murphy's Law or not it seems that the lifts have been down on weekends quite a bit this year for MECHANICAL (please read this CastleRock I wouldn't want you to misconstrue) reasons. I don't know what the cause is, but I would think that perhaps more money spent for maintenance, parts, whatever it takes to get a lift running and keep it running would be required. As I see the Powder Cat or whatever it's called sitting nice and pretty on the side I can't help but wonder if instead of spending money on things like this and focusing on building development, what if the money was spent on lifts to support the skiers who pay for the tickets and lodging?

This is the impression I have as a frequent Sugarbush skier and season pass holder. I'm not just a one or two weekends a year skier, but spend quite a bit of time and money here. I'm curious what's going on and when/how it will be resolved.

To all others please bash away. It amuses me.

Lostone
02-09-2009, 09:49 PM
How many times were the lifts down for mechanical reasons this season?

Last season? (This same subject was discussed last season.)

The year before?

My point is that you might perceive it as more, but was it really? I don't have the numbers. Do you? Do you have any evidence that the money spent for the cabin cat was gathered by deferring maintenance? Do you have any evidence that maintenance was deferred?

It does the resort no good to allow the lifts not to run. There is no profit in letting people go away saying things don't work well. You're statements say you don't believe the management doesn't realize this. Can you really believe this is true?

A couple years ago, Guest Services was being hammered by people complaining of 2 hour lift lines. The person in charge sent an ambassador to each running lift to time the line by checking the time into the line to onto the lift. I had the longest time. It was Castlerock. It was 37 minutes. That was on a Saturday Powder day, with Heaven's Gate on windhold.

My point is that sometimes the perception is wrong.

That may not be the case. here, but it might. I'd need to see the data.

MntMan4Bush
02-09-2009, 10:01 PM
I don't have access to that and how would I? Everything is about perception and as a paying customer it's my perception that matters along with all the other paying customers. So someone please dispute my perception with facts. As someone who comes up every weekend (and if not me my housemate only misses one weekend a year) I think we have a decent knowledge base to go off of for lift closings. I'd love to hear the mountain's factual numbers. However if they try and say that a lift like NR wasn't down due to mechanical for most of the early season I'm calling BS right away.

As for how money is spent again how would I know? I see other things in the works though and lifts down. So I'll assume that more money cold have been spent on maintenance. I'm not saying anyone shorted a fund or the current resources didn't do their job, but if you know the lifts are an issue (and most everyone here agrees that some are bad/old lifts) then how about upping the funds that go into them. That's all I'm saying here.

I guess CR is right about one thing. My post will result in nothing, so just file this under "complaint". I'll still be up next weekend. It just sucks and I'd like to see it fixed.

freeheel_skier
02-09-2009, 10:40 PM
5 minutes to North? What the hell are you driving? F1 McClaren? Do you find it hard to push in the clutch with ski boots on? I'll bet it handles corners like Foxworthy handles grammar.

^^^^^^^^

Classic! Hall of Fame quote! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for making me laugh!

As for the lazy comment regarding driving over to North....I have a ME Plus pass. I had one child in lessons and the other in a 1/2 day of daycare Saturday. Against my better judgement (Saturday being a busy day and SE winds) my wife and I decided exercise our "Plus" option because we were feeling "lazy". I actually dropped the wife off to check said children into daycare and lessons. I had to drive back to ME to pick up some gear I left in my locker....doh!!!! It aint 5min...more like 5miles! Do the fugggn' math!

BTW, I am not complaining. Both kids had a great time. Wifey and myself actually made some turns together. Good Times. 8)

HowieT2
02-10-2009, 08:00 AM
There is 'nothing more frustrating then lifts down for mechanical reasons. Since I ski the vast majority of my days at SB I can't compare whether SB has more issues with this than other mountains. However, saturday was the first "bad" lift day I can recall this season and I think last year was worse. I guess someone can check the archives for the threads from last season.
Obviously there isn't anything that can be done about windholds. But I wish they would do a better job of communicating lift status with signs.
Days like saturday make me yearn for a spanking new high speed triple VH lift.

win
02-10-2009, 08:30 AM
When we say windhold, it is that. As I had said in the past several times, windholds are the sole discretion of lift maintenance, and their number one concern is everyone's safety. Frankly, they did an amazing job of keeping the lifts running on Saturday with only having to put Heaven's Gate on windhold. One primary reason that the lift lines got to be 15 minutes at one point was that the lifts were slowed down in order to keep them open.

We you are on a lift and there is a mechanical, it seems like the lifts are down all the time. That is understandable. The fact is that our lifts run with the same reliability as the industry. We track this carefully. Even brand new lifts will have mechanical and electrical issues. Imagaines machines running with heavy loads ( all chairs filled) and with inclement weather on many days. The reason why all resorts have mechanics stationed around all day is to deal with problems when they arise and to fix them quickly.

Yard Sale
02-10-2009, 09:05 AM
I wish they would do a better job of communicating lift status with signs.


I know other resorts (Vail) have boards with green yellow red lights indicating operating status including wait times. A system like this would enhance visitor's enjoyment as well as help distribute traffic burdens through out the resort.

chuck
02-10-2009, 09:31 AM
It's all shadyjay's fault.....

John Walden
02-10-2009, 09:54 AM
To Win:

I think the mountain did a great job keeping lifts running this past weekend. We did start at LP, but left for ME as I know the wind direction wouldn't be a hinderance at North. We didn't make it to North in 10 minutes as Castlerock stated. Skiing was greatl; did lower FIS three times. Skiied LP on Sunday; top of the mountain was in great shape , but lower down was pretty scratchy.

sgottmann
02-10-2009, 09:54 AM
It's all shadyjay's fault.....

That must be how he got the name "shady" :D

castlerock
02-10-2009, 09:57 AM
We didn't make it to North in 10 minutes as Castlerock stated.

I didn't say anything about anyone getting to North in 10 minutes.

freeheel_skier
02-10-2009, 10:31 AM
^^^^^^^


After the Castlerock line got long we scooted over to North (took 5 minutes) and had a great day with no lines and good conditions. I'm sorry you were not picked up by a magical carpet and taken over there, but some things in life take initiative. I guess attitudes like that keep the lines shorter for the rest of us.

No CR you didn't, skierdon did.....I thought that was who mtnman4bush was referring to :? I think Walden was confused.

shadyjay
02-10-2009, 10:32 AM
It's all shadyjay's fault.....

I'm home sick today, so I'm pretty sure the lifts won't have any problems.
(and you can bet I'm hearing that quote from my coworkers)

chuck
02-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Shady - sorry to hear you are sick, feel better and get well soon.

HowieT2
02-10-2009, 11:02 AM
Shady - sorry to hear you are sick, feel better and get well soon.

We're all sick. Have u seen the weather forecast for the next few days !@#$%^&*(

chuck
02-10-2009, 11:21 AM
where is the optimism! My double secret weather site is calling for 1-4" thursday into Friday, with a sunny weekend in the mid to upper 20's! I'm leaving Jersey Thursday night....

John Walden
02-10-2009, 02:55 PM
Yeh, I am confused as always. It was Skierdon who stated that he went to North in 5 minutes from CR. I think he must of been thinking about North Lynx.
Someone told me that the mountain was done with snowmaking. Is that true?

Lostone
02-10-2009, 03:49 PM
They made snow the last two nights, in a few places.

skierdon
02-10-2009, 04:47 PM
Wow..... ok people, it is 4 miles from parking lot to parking lot, so 5 minutes averages 45 mph which is reasonable once you are on German Flats Rd. If you follow the speed limit it is 10 minutes, or so says Google, so maybe we can settle more on 7-8 minutes? I'm so very sorry for this extreme exaggeration....... if someone would like to start a separate post I would be happy to participate :shock:

RedneckMutha
02-10-2009, 07:11 PM
YOU KNOW DUDE IT'S KIND OF LIKE DOWN IN THE COW BARN - STUFF HAPPENS!

YOU JUST HAVE TO LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT.............Redneck Mutha

castlerock
02-11-2009, 12:52 AM
Wow..... ok people, it is 4 miles from parking lot to parking lot, so 5 minutes averages 45 mph which is reasonable once you are on German Flats Rd. If you follow the speed limit it is 10 minutes, or so says Google, so maybe we can settle more on 7-8 minutes? I'm so very sorry for this extreme exaggeration....... if someone would like to start a separate post I would be happy to participate :shock:

No arguments from me. Hell the bus schedules the trip in 15 with loading and unloading. I didn't make any comments at all from my extremely crowded Ivory tower.

ski_resort_observer
02-11-2009, 07:45 AM
:wink: :D

http://forums.skimrv.com/albums/album33/cubicle_man.jpg

MntMan4Bush
02-12-2009, 01:20 PM
Well apparently people are unable to read or remember anything other then the most recent weekend. For the record I'll say it one more time. i don't care about wind holds. What's that? Wind holds??? Don't care about them. I'm talking mechanical here so everyone who wants to discuss wind holds and the issues with them please start a new thread. So is this clear now or do people need further clarification? One more?? OK. Talking about wind holds on this thread is like talking about salad to Tom Arnold. Unless it's covered with a giant slab of honey coated ham and 3 slices of chocolate cake no one cares..........

Now back to the subject. Win I have to disagree with your statement:

"When we say windhold, it is that. As I had said in the past several times, windholds are the sole discretion of lift maintenance, and their number one concern is everyone's safety. Frankly, they did an amazing job of keeping the lifts running on Saturday with only having to put Heaven's Gate on windhold. One primary reason that the lift lines got to be 15 minutes at one point was that the lifts were slowed down in order to keep them open."

Again taking wind holds out and allowing that operations makes the best decisions based on safety (not arguing this) you make it seem like only HG was down on Saturday which was not the case. You also make it seem like wind was the only reason for lifts going down that day or there being a line. The lines got to 15 minutes at one point because VD, NL were down in addition to the wind holds. (not arguing the wind holds again so everyone is clear)

Mechanical issues seem to be a bigger problem this year then I remember from last. Or maybe they're only happening on weekends this year. As an example the SBX chair has only been open one day and that was over a week ago. So in other words the SBX chair did not start spinning until Feb. This is only my observation and no one has thrown up any numbers to refute it (nor to support it as well. Just an observation) The NR chair has suffered repeated down times and if I'm not mistaken GH was down the weekend before for a bit. I don't really keep a journal of down times so it's based off of what I remember.

In any event to my buddy who complains to me every chair lift up about how snow making is lacking at the Bush and the lifts are always down blah blah blah. Consider me on board with the SkiMRV attitude from this point forward. I see nothing but rosy skies and toe the line. Everything's great. Thanks for sticking up for me and voicing your opinion on the boards instead of just bitching to me about it. Expect to have your ski boots graveled every morning for the rest of the season. That's right. I've got a whole bag of gravel and bit by bit you'll find them.

Lastly, come on. Minor exaggeration? 5 minutes vs 15? For those of you in remedial math that's 3 times as much. That's just drive time. Not considering the fact that you have to de-boot (PITA), get to your car, get to the other mountain and re-boot. Perhaps boarders have it a bit easier. All in all I'll bet you're looking at a 20-30 minute excursion to get to North depending on the parking spot you get and that's without kids. But next time you make it to North in 5 minutes make sure you don't get the crack pipe you're driving above 60 MPH. I hear they splinter.

vonski
02-12-2009, 03:52 PM
Lastly, come on. Minor exaggeration? 5 minutes vs 15? For those of you in remedial math that's 3 times as much. That's just drive time. Not considering the fact that you have to de-boot (PITA), get to your car, get to the other mountain and re-boot. Perhaps boarders have it a bit easier. All in all I'll bet you're looking at a 20-30 minute excursion to get to North depending on the parking spot you get and that's without kids. But next time you make it to North in 5 minutes make sure you don't get the crack pipe you're driving above 60 MPH. I hear they splinter.

I take the shuttle and can drive my automatic with ski boots on, i use both feet. I won't drive if roads are slick but have done so on dry roads or I just take off the right boot. So negate the boot taking off. The shuttle does take just 15 minutes if you time it right. If you take SBX then one must first get cut by the CB cutters at gatehouse and ride GH so 5-10 minutes for that, then 10- 12 minute ride on SBX ( not sure of actual time but that seems reasonable.) So, I see it as break even. Yes SBX does dump you right at NRE so that is a plus, but the shuttles have never been a problem for me.

I do agree that NRE has had issues this year. It is down right now for scheduled maintenance. Maybe the plastic part finally came in to replace the one that was fabricated in house recently when it broke big time. ( thankfully the mechanics were able to do that!) I am more concerned with that lift as it does have issues. and it needs to be running at North to make that area work.

Also SBX got slammed in a storm. Major damage to a tower and then need for State Reinspection. Then lack of snow is what I recall being the issue with SBX. Rather than basic maintenance issues this year. So mother nature has had some influence on that lift this year.

So I agree, but disagree!!!!

skierdon
02-12-2009, 04:07 PM
Lastly, come on. Minor exaggeration? 5 minutes vs 15? For those of you in remedial math that's 3 times as much. That's just drive time. Not considering the fact that you have to de-boot (PITA), get to your car, get to the other mountain and re-boot. Perhaps boarders have it a bit easier. All in all I'll bet you're looking at a 20-30 minute excursion to get to North depending on the parking spot you get and that's without kids. But next time you make it to North in 5 minutes make sure you don't get the crack pipe you're driving above 60 MPH. I hear they splinter.

Thanks buddy. Why don't you go relax, play some video games, and have your mom cook you up something nice for dinner.

win
02-12-2009, 04:15 PM
MM4Bush,

I will respond briefly, but if you want, I will sit with you and go over everything in greater detail. SBX was damaged by a storm and had to be fixed. Once fixed we need an annual rope inspection and then a State inspection That was the primary reason why is opened later than normal, but we also have to have enough ground cover to get evaluation machinery into Slidebrook. The bottom line is that there wasn't anything fundamentally mechanically problematical with its opening. This, however, is a very challenging lift to operate given its two mile length and the terrain it crosses. It is exposed to wind from every direction and is probably the most affected by weather. Also, I should point out that it there is an RPD tower fault which needs a manual fix it takes a long time to get into the affected tower - much longer than it would on a tower on Bravo and Gate House. Personally, I would not have put in SB and given up the ability to use the Slidebrook area more. But that is history.

North Ridge did have some early mechanical and electrical issues, but they were corrected.

Overall, I do not believe that we have had more mechanical or electrical issues that prior years, but as I said, if you are on the lift when they occur, it doesn't appear to be so.

Finally, I would add that very cold weather and winds do affect lift operation. Exposed wire can be ripped off for instance.

We hired a really good Lift Maintenance Manger from Keystone this past summer, and I have full confidence in his abilities.

Northridge is down today because we are doing some minor upgrades to the controls. We picked today because of the weather.

MntMan4Bush
02-12-2009, 04:15 PM
Just because you live in your moms basement and drool over pictures of Sinead O'Connor while listening to the Tupoc doesn't mean we all do. Some of us are busy slacking off at work here. Now why don't you go make a quick run out to the 7-11 for some turkey jerky. Be back in 5.

Hawk
02-12-2009, 04:27 PM
OK. So is this what you want.....

"Our lifts are really old and suck so get used to it. After all we need to spend all our money on the new construciton and Claybrook and not the aging infrastructure. You need to buck up little camper....." :lol:

Honestly, and I am not just trying to be positive toword the mountain, it wasn't all that bad this weekend. I got a call from my friends at another resort east of the happy valley and they had no major lifts running on Sunday. I am unlike most on this board and I do venture out and ski other hills to get some variety. It has been my experience that SB is averge when it comes to mechanical issues. It happens at every resort.

I also drive to North with my ski boots on.... :wink:

MntMan4Bush
02-12-2009, 04:46 PM
"Our lifts are really old and suck so get used to it. After all we need to spend all our money on the new construciton and Claybrook and not the aging infrastructure. You need to buck up little camper....." Laughing

Fair enough Hawk. I guess I'm not sure what I'm looking for and that pretty much sums it up. Well played. I guess with SB as my only skiing outlet I don't see what other mountains suffer as well. These were my observations only and now stated I'll sit back and hope for snow this weekend.

Plowboy
02-12-2009, 07:59 PM
Why was the Sunny D closed yesterday :?: :cry: Valley schools out at noon, nice day and kids looking to hit the Park. :?

shadyjay
02-12-2009, 09:18 PM
Why was the Sunny D closed yesterday :?: :cry: Valley schools out at noon, nice day and kids looking to hit the Park. :?

Think the park was closed yesterday for rebuilding. So that just leaves Sugar Run and Lower CJ.

Why would schools be out at noon on a Wednesday? Wx didn't look like a factor.

Plowboy
02-12-2009, 09:48 PM
Why was the Sunny D closed yesterday :?: :cry: Valley schools out at noon, nice day and kids looking to hit the Park. :?

Think the park was closed yesterday for rebuilding. So that just leaves Sugar Run and Lower CJ.

Why would schools be out at noon on a Wednesday? Wx didn't look like a factor.

Cool, they were concerned the lift was broken.

They have one early dismissal day a month. The next one is Mardh 25th. :wink:

beelze
02-13-2009, 01:02 PM
A bit late to the thread but I've been on NL quite a few times the past month and had many stoppages that
were not wind related - after the last one I left the lift rather than try a few more runs and risk getting stuck for
more than 5 minutes at a pop. I've managed so far this season to catch NR on good days but I did get a later
start than usual. Someone else pointed out their perception, after being at SB a long time and elsewhere, that
SB tends to have more mechanical breakdowns and I think I'll second that. Perhaps some of the money being
spent on frills would be better off in the capital budget to replace aging parts/lifts?


How many times were the lifts down for mechanical reasons this season?

It does the resort no good to allow the lifts not to run. There is no profit in letting people go away saying things don't work well. You're statements say you don't believe the management doesn't realize this. Can you really believe this is true?



Lostone the problem with that statement is that management has never seemed interested in maximizing profit, or
even coming remotely close. If they were, they would lower weekday prices, certainly in the afternoon. The place,
especially Mt. Ellen, is a ghost town and Win is still paying people to run those lifts, empty, full or in between.

win
02-13-2009, 01:48 PM
Have you seen the 2 for $50 fiftieth special? That's a low price!

Weekday is a challenge for the entire industry. For some strange reason people want to ski and ride on weekends and holidays.

jwt
02-13-2009, 03:03 PM
Strange behavior? Maybe, ( I'm peerty sure you jest here!) and weekdays are a ghost town EVERYWHERE, except maybe those local to the large schools or cities ( Wachussett in central MA for instance), and while everyone wants to be where the powder and few people are during the week, there is just something about busy and crowds that people like.

The vibe on weekends is something most of us enjoy, as long as we aren't standing in lines too long or sking like a pinball to miss crowds on the slopes.
Most of my friends either can't or don't WANT to do too many midweeks because of work and once again, missing that vibe.
If you like the city for entertainment, imagine going in to NYC on a Wed night and no one was around? Or worse, a Sat night and there's 20 other people at the club that holds 600. People like people. Even though we hate them sometimes.
The fire pit is raging, the pub is bustling, and if you want silence on Sat - head to SB or your favorite un-named woods stash.
You won't find a busload at the Jerusalem Store anytime during the week. . . . or lucky us - NORTH!

It's the 50 year old Sugarbush Vibe, and it's a pretty good one. We can complain all we want about crowds until we go to Mt Snow on any given w/e.
Most of us know we got something here very few others have. Many of us ( pass or not) understand this when we venture out to ski other mountains. Even the PEOPLE are different at other places - you know you're not home, good as it may be.

shadyjay
02-13-2009, 07:26 PM
Castlerock and North Lynx were down for maintenance for a portion of the day... CR reopening around lunchtime (1:15) and NL opened at around 3:15. It was a challenge for us lift ops today as our ramps and decks were sheets of ice. I had a team of 3 assisting me with my ramp, and the wind didn't help matters as it swept the fresh covering, revealing some ugliness by day's end. Its going to be taken care of tonight and I'll fix it up nice tomorrow..... I hope! HG was on windhold and was officially closed for the day around 1. No way around the wind unfortunetely. It was quite gusty at top of GH - and apparently was last night, with a 61mph wind gust recorded.

One more final thought... when exiting from a detach, as comfortable as the seat may be... standing up at the first set of cones will give you better chances of not ending up in the pit. I had dozens and dozens of "late risers" who stood up as the chair was starting to turn in the terminal. If you stand up too late, the chair will catch you and you won't have enough time to get out of the way before you're sent for a ride down. Standing up at the first set of cones and unloading there will give you more time than at the last minute. I know you all know how to get on/off lifts but much of the $14 crowd today it seemed needed a lesson. Just my $.02.

Have a great weekend and hope to see some (most?) of you out on the slopes!

(giddy-up 409 - my 409th post.... wow!)

win
02-13-2009, 07:32 PM
Yogi Berra said it best. "No one goes there anymore. It's too crowded." I guess he didn't like the vibe.

I grew up watching Yogi's Yankees. I think this was the line-up.

!B - Moose Skowron
2nd - Bobby Richardson
SS - Tony Kubeck
3rd - Clete Boyer
RF- Roger Maris
CF - Mickey Mantle
LF - Help me out here
P- Whitey Ford
C- Yogi Berra

I have now dated myself, so maybe no one on this blog will be able to identify with this!

HowieT2
02-13-2009, 07:48 PM
Yogi Berra said it best. "No one goes there anymore. It's too crowded." I guess he didn't like the vibe.

I grew up watching Yogi's Yankees. I think this was the line-up.

!B - Moose Skowron
2nd - Bobby Richardson
SS - Tony Kubeck
3rd - Clete Boyer
RF- Roger Maris
CF - Mickey Mantle
LF - Help me out here
P- Whitey Ford
C- Yogi Berra

I have now dated myself, so maybe no one on this blog will be able to identify with this!

Before my time, but didn't Berra move to left with Elston Howard catching??

Strat
02-13-2009, 07:48 PM
Yogi Berra said it best. "No one goes there anymore. It's too crowded." I guess he didn't like the vibe.

I grew up watching Yogi's Yankees. I think this was the line-up.

!B - Moose Skowron
2nd - Bobby Richardson
SS - Tony Kubeck
3rd - Clete Boyer
RF- Roger Maris
CF - Mickey Mantle
LF - Help me out here
P- Whitey Ford
C- Yogi Berra

I have now dated myself, so maybe no one on this blog will be able to identify with this!
Might this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_New_York_Yankees_season#Starting_Lineup) be of use, Win?

Lostone
02-13-2009, 08:33 PM
Strat, that lineup has Yogi in the outfield.

In looking thru a bunch of years, I find most of those people in a few years, but not that lineup. :(

Names I find for LF would be Tom Tresh and Hector Lopez. Even then, I never paid much attention to the professional sports, although I was playing something all the time. I found my lists off this site, (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/roster.php?y=1960&t=NYA) although it is poorly organized, such that I seemed to have to go back to my search bar and switch the year. :roll:


But back in the OT,

Lostone the problem with that statement is that management has never seemed interested in maximizing profit, or
even coming remotely close. If they were, they would lower weekday prices, certainly in the afternoon. The place,
especially Mt. Ellen, is a ghost town and Win is still paying people to run those lifts, empty, full or in between.

As the reason most people ski weekends is that job thing, are you sure lowering the price would make more money? Would enough people come at the lower price to make up for the loss of the higher cost tickets? And how would that affect the number of people coming to Lincoln Peak?

Would the lower cost bring in enough people to pay for the cannibalization of people that would already be paying?

And if they got in a consulting firm to do a study, how many extra tickets would they have to sell to pay for the consultants?


In fact, most ski areas are very light in traffic on weekdays. That has to do with that aforementioned job thing. :?

Strat
02-13-2009, 08:39 PM
Strat, that lineup has Yogi in the outfield.
Well I realize that, but it's the closest thing I could find to his description...
8)

shadyjay
02-13-2009, 09:33 PM
Lostone wrote:
>As the reason most people ski weekends is that job thing, are you sure lowering the price would make more money? Would enough people come at the lower price to make up >for the loss of the higher cost tickets? And how would that affect the number of people coming to Lincoln Peak?
>Would the lower cost bring in enough people to pay for the cannibalization of people that would already be paying?
>And if they got in a consulting firm to do a study, how many extra tickets would they have to sell to pay for the consultants?


Lower the price and they will come... regardless of conditions.
Today, despite being $14 day, I didn't think it'd be too busy, given the rain yesterday, freezing last night, dicey roads in the AM, the wind, etc.... but they came!
Okay, perhaps it being a Friday before the big week starts had a lot to do with it and many probably started their vacation a day early.

But I am reminded of the $14 day when it was on a Wednesday back in '07.... that day had the absolute most perfect conditions ever... in the middle of the V-Day storm...
and the place was a ghost town.

$5.50 day on 12/23 a few years ago also brought out the masses (literally). Also a weekday. But then again, also the day before the start of the other big week.

So what we need to determine is if a cheap day in the middle of the week, with ideal weather conditions would yield the same results.

mattlucas
02-13-2009, 11:25 PM
i never looked up the stats of the entire 61 yanks but it's obviously a famous year.
Mantle just destroyed pitching staffs across the year and some nobody broke the home run record.

i sure wish the comish did something to keep the books pure back then.
maybe he could have included one of these? :wink:

-

As far as our lifts are concerned, i sure hope they're spinning till about mid-may. Love those late-late season turns.

HowieT2
02-14-2009, 07:24 AM
Strat, that lineup has Yogi in the outfield.
Well I realize that, but it's the closest thing I could find to his description...
8)

I heard Yogi interviewed last week and he talked about playing left with Mantle in center. Also, I know he was in left when Mazerowski hit the home run to win the WS in '60.

Plowboy
02-27-2009, 07:37 AM
Why was the Sunny D closed yesterday :?: :cry: Valley schools out at noon, nice day and kids looking to hit the Park. :?

I will ask this :?: again. Why was the Sunny D closed yesterday(2/27) :?: :cry: :cry: :cry: Valley schools on vacation, VERY NICE SUNNY DAY and kids looking to hit the park.

Lostone
02-27-2009, 07:39 AM
Yesterday's snow report said that it was closed for the day, mechanical repairs.

Plowboy
02-27-2009, 07:45 AM
Yesterday's snow report said that it was closed for the day, mechanical repairs.

It say's it's closed today too. Where does it say mechanical repairs?

Plowboy
02-27-2009, 08:22 AM
It has been updated. Now the Sunny D is the only lift open at ME(windholds). :lol:

Lostone
02-27-2009, 06:31 PM
Where does it say mechanical repairs?

It was on the snow report sent out on email. That would be the first morning snow report.

ski_resort_observer
02-27-2009, 11:18 PM
It has been updated. Now the Sunny D is the only lift open at ME(windholds). :lol:

Yup, Sunny D was the only lift spinning today until the plug was pulled at about 2PM. Remember, the lifts don't start spinning until 9AM. Changes prior to the 9AM opening during wind issues as a result of discussions and decisions regarding the lifts is not unusual. The wind at the base was not too bad but one had to only stand outside and you could hear the wind howling up on the mountain.

BTW...the boy came in a couple of weeks to show me his new boots.......sweet! :D