RFID info

[Stumpy]

I can have an RFID server ready in my office for $150 and 4 hrs of work. My antenna on the roof reaches gatehouse and super B.

For about $270 these can be had:

http://www.intermec.com/products/ip30a/index.aspx

How much easer can it be?

[HowieT2]

I can have an RFID server ready in my office for $150 and 4 hrs of work. My antenna on the roof reaches gatehouse and super B.

For about $270 these can be had:

http://www.intermec.com/products/ip30a/index.aspx

How much easer can it be?

Cool. I'm going to get one to keep track of my kids :roll:

[Dawn Patrol]

Are you going to pay for the added cost, not to mention environmental waste of rfid tags on every single lift ticket??

[Stumpy]

Of course!

[Strat]

Can anyone clarify exactly what RFID is? Is it just a proximity reader rather than a barcode scanner?

[Stumpy]

done...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

[Strat]

Well of course I checked Wikipedia, but I was confused as to why a proximity scanning technology would need a handheld scanner like the one in the original post...

[Lostone]

My guess is you would need a low sensitivity device so that if 11 people showed up with 10 sensors, you'd know who didn't have one, and be able to stop them from getting thru.

[Hardbooter]

I think Win or someone mentioned that the computer system that Sugarbush uses is the same one that some ski areas use that allow RFID scanners built into turnstiles to do the scanning. Personally, I love that system since you just stick your pass in the pocket that faces one side of the turnstile and you're good to go. It's pretty common in europe. You can find it out west in a few areas too (like Big Sky.) Also, the turnstile does a pretty good job of line management.
I think the company sells the ski area the entire point of sale/computer system package and lets them customize it for their ski area. I think sugarbush opted to go with the bar code scanner system since the infrastructure was cheaper (no RFID badges and turnstiles) I suspect the cost of the RFID system has gone down by now so maybe they'll reconsider. Apparently it's a pretty powerful and flexible computer system. Does anyone know what company makes the system?

[teleo]

... you just stick your pass in the pocket that faces one side of the turnstile and you're good to go. ..
I think a certain mountain to the south tried a setup like that a number of years back and although it was really convenient, it essentially made passes transferable. They quickly went back to having attendants look at passes and then ripped out the corrals with the scanners shortly thereafter.

I'm all for more efficient technology. My pass doesn't seem to scan well at all this year. In theory RFID should be much more efficient.
But I think they would have to have attendants look at passes to protect themselves from the abuse some might try.

[Yard Sale]

Just got back from Vail. They have RFID passes scanned by hand held scanners and verified by carbon based life forms known as humans. Works great! Pass in pocket no worries. Technology is a good thing, but the human interface at the lift (especially ones with silly name tags) cannot be replaced.

[Lostone]

But if the pass is in the pocket, how do they verify it is your pass? What is to keep 30 people from skiing on one pass?

[Hawk]

I agree that the whole transferable pass thing is the big problem. Until they can come up with a system that can verify the pass with the individual and also be cost effective we will be stuck with this system. Maybe a computer chip implant. :wink:

If they could just fix the scanners to work properly I think most of the issue would go away. Does anybody know the reason why the scanners don't read the bar code? Is it just old and poorly maintained equipment?

[HowieT2]

I agree that the whole transferable pass thing is the big problem. Until they can come up with a system that can verify the pass with the individual and also be cost effective we will be stuck with this system. Maybe a computer chip implant. :wink:

If they could just fix the scanners to work properly I think most of the issue would go away. Does anybody know the reason why the scanners don't read the bar code? Is it just old and poorly maintained equipment?

Did you guys get new pass cards last year or this year?? I'm curious because I got a new card at the end of last season and have been surprised by how little trouble I have had with it. I think I've only had an issue once this season.

[teleo]

I had a new pass last year, that I'm using again this year. Seemed to scan much better last year. May be a downside of using the same pass.

[MntMan4Bush]

We keep saying things like "If they ever come up with the technology......"

Two examples out west.

Alta uses RFID. They have turn- style gates that only open if you have a pass on you. No pass and it doesn't open. This controls the flow of people on the lift as only one group form that section of line at a time can scan. It also saves quite a bit on employee expenses since one person can monitor the entire line in case there's an issue. From skiing Alta (and Solitude that also uses something similar) I can say it was quick and effective. Never an issue for me.

Snowbird uses bar codes still (which is why Alta's pass also has a barcode for the Snowbird/Alta lift pass), but they have scanners that can hit your pass from 10 feet away as you ski up. They don't even need to grab your pass. If they can see it they can scan it. I've never had an issue there with a pass not scanning.

So technology that works effectively is out there. We just don't have it yet. Maybe when all the scanners finally die out we'll switch from Fischerprice to another manufacturer. I'm assuming these options aren't cheap so the mountain will need to decide if it's a worthwhile investment.

[Hawk]

We understand the proximity type readers are out there. I have friends at Alta that say the system is pretty slick. The issue with that particular system is that you can borrow someone's pass and boom you on the hill. Unless there is someone at the turnstile checking the picture on the pass. This is the problem that the Bush is trying to avoid. Now when they come up with a pass that can only be used by one individual exclusively let me know.

[Yard Sale]

At vail with the Peaks Card (which is like the Sugar Card) and season passes, the hand held scanners have a screen where the users picture appears of verification.

[Hawk]

At vail with the Peaks Card (which is like the Sugar Card) and season passes, the hand held scanners have a screen where the users picture appears of verification.

Now that is what I am talking about but I bet it cost a bundle for the system.

[chuck]

this all sounds excellent - but do the ticket checkers really look at the picture to verify? Do we really need or want people taking off hats/helmets goggles, face masks in long lift lines to confirm identity? I would be curious to know the approximate dollars of fraud at SB..Does SB really attract this type of personality?
If i am off track or missed the point with this, my apologies, I'm too pumped watching the snow puke outside to think straight...

[madhavok]

this all sounds excellent - but do the ticket checkers really look at the picture to verify? Do we really need or want people taking off hats/helmets goggles, face masks in long lift lines to confirm identity? I would be curious to know the approximate dollars of fraud at SB..Does SB really attract this type of personality?
If i am off track or missed the point with this, my apologies, I'm too pumped watching the snow puke outside to think straight...

Good point sir. The the whole checking ID argument is pretty weak when people are skiing with a helmet, goggles & a neck warmer. I don't know how much fraud there is but I don't think it would be that much. I know if I had a season pass I wouldn't be sharing it with anyone, I'd be using it. Also on a typical weekend I wonder what percentage of guests are pass holders verse ticket buyers. If there were many more ticket buyers than season pass holders (only a guess) why let the tail wag the dog so to speak.

However the fact that the current scanners don't work, or don't work well should be enough reason to try an alternative, and if thats RFID I say go for it.

[HowieT2]

this all sounds excellent - but do the ticket checkers really look at the picture to verify? Do we really need or want people taking off hats/helmets goggles, face masks in long lift lines to confirm identity? I would be curious to know the approximate dollars of fraud at SB..Does SB really attract this type of personality?
If i am off track or missed the point with this, my apologies, I'm too pumped watching the snow puke outside to think straight...

Good point sir. The the whole checking ID argument is pretty weak when people are skiing with a helmet, goggles & a neck warmer. I don't know how much fraud there is but I don't think it would be that much. I know if I had a season pass I wouldn't be sharing it with anyone, I'd be using it. Also on a typical weekend I wonder what percentage of guests are pass holders verse ticket buyers. If there were many more ticket buyers than season pass holders (only a guess) why let the tail wag the dog so to speak.

However the fact that the current scanners don't work, or don't work well should be enough reason to try an alternative, and if thats RFID I say go for it.

With regard to the cost of RFID, I don't think the issue is the season passes but the lift tickets

As for fraud, I think you would be surprised how much there would be if it was known that no one was checking. Personally, I've had two friends who asked to use my pass and I'm not talking about kids or people without means either It was quite uncomfortable telling them they could not.

[Hawk]

I don't think they would make you take off your stuff. I will say that more than once last week the lifties took a good look at my pass picture. Maybe I'm just photogenic. :wink:

[boze]

Other than the value of the skier traffic data they collect, the current scanners are likely less efficient than the good "old fashioned" tickets that used large printed dates or color codes to denote their validity. Rarely had the need to 'scan' those tickets more than once.

[djd66]

I think the excuse of fraud is not good enough to say no to RFID. What is stopping the same fraudsters from sharing a pass now? Unfortunatly this goes on and is factored into the cost of a pass.

You could have ticket checkers spot checking actual passes or I am sure you could reasily view the person on a small screen as they pass through a gate. No system is fool proof. RFID would be much better than the system we are currently using.

[007]

We understand the proximity type readers are out there. I have friends at Alta that say the system is pretty slick. The issue with that particular system is that you can borrow someone's pass and boom you on the hill. Unless there is someone at the turnstile checking the picture on the pass. This is the problem that the Bush is trying to avoid. Now when they come up with a pass that can only be used by one individual exclusively let me know.

SIMPLY schedule an appointment for your implant! Add a Credit Card number to it, and also conveniently walk through the turnstile at the cafeteria or CRP to pay your tab. Welcome to the 21st century, although some people may not desire a body piercing....... Hmmm, now just WHERE on the body would it placed?......


[i][size=9]Radio-frequency identification (RFID) is an automatic identification method, relying on storing and remotely retrieving data using devices called RFID tags or transponders. The technology requires some extent of cooperation of an RFID reader and an RFID tag.
An RFID tag is an object that can be applied to or incorporated into a product, animal, or person for the purpose of identification and tracking using radio waves. Some tags can be read from several meters away and beyond the line of sight of the reader.
[size=9]Most RFID tags contain at least two parts. One is an integrated circuit for storing and processing information, modulating and demodulating a radio-frequency (RF) signal, and other specialized functions. The second is an antenna for receiving and transmitting the signal.
There are generally two types of RFID tags: active RFID tags, which contain a battery, and passive RFID tags, which have no battery.
Today, RFID is used in enterprise supply chain management to improve the efficiency of inventory tracking and management.

[mattlucas]

I'm at the vail resorts where they are using the RFID tags in passes. A few times lifities have asked me my name as a check before telling me to enjoy my day. Another time, they called my brother an incorrect name to see if it would trip him up as a sort of test i suppose. They do look at our pictures on the lower mountain lifts.

their economic model is pretty interesting though. A $600 pass for all the resorts? They probably sold a couple million this year to smarter skiers, the cheap, and others that would have bought passes anyway. Plenty of people still buying $100 day tickets anyway (which have bar codes), but it gives them a great idea of their operating revenue for the year.

Maybe MRG can chip in a few $$$ to get this technology off the ground......

[John Walden]

Alta has the best system I have ever witness with RFID card . It works very smooth and you don't need a lot of lift attendants to monitor it. I skiied Canyons on Sunday and it was a zoo with their 17 lifts and all those attendants.

[HowieT2]

Alta has the best system I have ever witness with RFID card . It works very smooth and you don't need a lot of lift attendants to monitor it. I skiied Canyons on Sunday and it was a zoo with their 17 lifts and all those attendants.

agreed.