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View Full Version : Hate to have to say this but...



notorious
11-18-2008, 08:17 PM
I am once again saddened to learn that our friends, the Bush employees and families of employees, are directed not to ski or ride this opening weekend in deference to the "needs" of the customers. This policy, along with employee blackout days during holiday weeks is not the industry norm, nor is it necessary. On behalf of our friends, I ask for reconsideration.

Having long since paid for my season pass, boycotting this weekend would not cause the MT to notice my absence. However silence would be taken as assent. At least raising a little dust in this forum lets ownership know that we are paying attention. Employees cannot raise dust without possible consequences.

Bush employees, like most ski resort employees, make a conscious decision to accept below market rate wages in order to live and work in one of the Creator's chosen places, the Mad River Valley, but treating them like 19th century mill workers is, I suggest, unenlightened. Management and employees are partners in the success of the resurgent resort. Mutual respect is the fabric on which the social contract is written.

If my information is wrong, I promise to humbly apologize, both in this forum and face-to-face to ownership, but I believe the information to be true.

barkbiter
11-18-2008, 08:37 PM
Good for you notorious ! I was thinking about taking one of those jobs until I heard some mention of blackout days..........

ski_resort_observer
11-18-2008, 09:05 PM
A noble gesture I guess but please do not boycott anything for this employee....no interest in skiing until we get more snow and more terrain open.

Hawk
11-19-2008, 07:45 AM
I agree with Notorious. These people work very hard during the season and deserve the benefit of skiing early when the crowds are not really here. When the season started over at Ellen and we were just skiing Rim Run and Elbow, the lines were long. I understood the reasoning in that situation. But with the opening at LP and most likely top to bottom and 2 lifts, I don't think there will be the same crowding and lift lines.

So I also say let them Ski!

Treeskier
11-19-2008, 08:03 AM
I also agree. Plus god forbid if things went south between now an Thanksgiving weekend they would have gotten their fix and would not be Jone'sing over the holiday. The job comes with a season pass.....a whole season.

mikec13
11-19-2008, 09:17 AM
While I greatly appreciate all of the employees they are all in the service industry and this sounds like one of the sacrifices one makes when they accept these types of jobs. Since this isn't a new policy I am pretty sure they accepted the job knowing that the season pass they receive has some restrictions. While they may be dissappointed I would also think they recognize that they need to offer the best product and service to the customer if they want to continue to be employed. I also think it is difficult to evaluate their treatment while viewing only one portion of their compensation/benefits. Based on what I see the employees seem to be pretty happy with the overall management of the mountain. The situation may not be utopia but what is?

summitchallenger
11-19-2008, 09:22 AM
I did not realize that this policy was in effect....

smootharc
11-19-2008, 09:33 AM
http://forums.skimrv.com/viewtopic.php?t=498

Just fyi.

gone.skiing
11-19-2008, 10:05 AM
Good for you notorious ! I was thinking about taking one of those jobs until I heard some mention of blackout days..........

Are you coming up this weekend?

flakeydog
11-19-2008, 12:26 PM
This issue is so between SB and its employees, truly none of our business. I will say that it is certainly not uncommon in the industry. Having worked at ski shops and other ski/outdoor connected jobs, perks are generally restricted to 2nd tier product or service subject to blackouts and many other restrictions. Not because employees are 2nd class citizens but because there is a business to be run behind all of the fun and games that is this great industry. Perks are just that, perks. They are not entitlements or god given rights. There are plenty of other service jobs you can get without them.

Last Tracks
11-19-2008, 12:49 PM
treating them like 19th century mill workers

Mill workers in the 19th century typically worked 6 and a half days a week. They got Sunday afternoon off to go to church. A typical day was about 14 hours with an hour for lunch. They usually got Christmas and Easter off every year.

Hawk
11-19-2008, 01:29 PM
I think the point is that this policy came from long lift lines and crowding early season at Mt. Ellen. We will not have that Saturday at Lincoln Peak.
We are not talking about employees that are scheduled to work this weekend. We are talking about Ski instructors, patrolers and others that will be sitting home with no work because the mountain is not fully open yet. Some of these people are my freinds and I seldom get a change to ski with them because they are always working. I don't think it's that big a deal to let them ski and yes I am making it my business. :wink:

Lostone
11-19-2008, 01:56 PM
Weighing in...

Those that know me here, know that I am an addict. Would I want to ski the first day we're open...? Of course! And most other days, too.

But I will be able to ski most other days, and many who will be paid guests, won't. So I have little trouble leaving it to them. (I say little, as opposed to none, because... (See the addict statement, above. :wink: ))

And IMNATHO, it isn't a problem with lifts. It is a problem that everyone on the mountain comes down Downspout. It... can get ugly. :shock:

We have limited terrain, and if we have to wait, I'm not going to sit around and cry... although I may continue drooling. Still, thanx to all for their kind thoughts. :wink:

vonski
11-19-2008, 02:11 PM
I was in my local ski shop in CT. and the employees at the ski shop were complaining that K-mart was not allowing the shop employees to have free ski priviledges until after 12-1-08. Although, these are not direct mountain employees other mountains are blocking out workers as well. Just FYI. Also has Sugarbush ever thought of offering a discounted ticket that the workers could purchase those days that are blocked out? They would now be gaining more revenue as well and allowing the diehard workers to ski at a reasonable price.

skierdon
11-19-2008, 04:17 PM
No one is forcing these folks to work for the resort and it is not something they weren't aware of ahead of time. Being a former liftie out west, I feel for mtn. ops, but I'm sure the Sugarbush staff is privy to some skiing opportunities that are not available to the general public (just as I was). Sure, I had to work on some epic pow days and people felt sorry for me, but I also got to spin laps in feet of fresh snow before the mountain opened to the public.

I agree it is none of our business, but I would also assume that management is not doing this just to be a pain in the ass. There is probably a business decision behind it, and these types of business decisions are what keep peoples' jobs in tact, something I hope people can appreciate these days.

barkbiter
11-19-2008, 09:52 PM
Good for you notorious ! I was thinking about taking one of those jobs until I heard some mention of blackout days..........

Are you coming up this weekend?

I boycott the first weekend !! I will also buy my employee friends a ticket any day they they need one ! Both of them !! And their wives !


and puhlease, Mr. goneskiing, do not speak to the barkbiter directly.............how dare you.

win
11-19-2008, 10:32 PM
Well, Notorious, this decision is mine and as of 10:26pm on Wednesday night, I have not made it, but I will tomorrow morning. I will see what we are likely going to have open on Saturday. Our first principle is "the interest of our guests comes first". Whether you like that or not, that is how I am going to operate this business. I also appreciate that our employees are key to making everthing happen, but the guest's interest have to come first. If we have limited terrain as is often the case on opening day in November, I feel it is the right thing to make sure that our paying guests (those people that allow up to meet payroll) have as nice an experience as possible.

If we have only top to bottom skiing on Jester to Downspout to Lower Downspout to Coffee Run, I will allow our paying guests to get the first runs and then allow employees to ski or ride later in the day. If we have more terrain open, I may allow all to get on the first lift.

Sorry if you don't like this, but that is just the way it is going to be so long as we own Sugarbush.

mattlucas
11-20-2008, 12:21 AM
that seems reasonable enough to me...even the most enthusiastic season pass holder might get a bit bored if it's only going to be jester/downspout for the first day or two.

but with temps this cold and the guns blaring, they should be pulling the hoses through the trees to get spillsville open in a few days, right?

WWF-VT
11-20-2008, 08:28 AM
but with temps this cold and the guns blaring, they should be pulling the hoses through the trees to get spillsville open in a few days, right?

Thought that Spillsville never gets snowmaking beyond what Mother Nature delivers

notorious
11-20-2008, 08:34 AM
Well, Notorious, this decision is mine and as of 10:26pm on Wednesday night, I have not made it, but I will tomorrow morning. I will see what we are likely going to have open on Saturday. Our first principle is "the interest of our guests comes first". Whether you like that or not, that is how I am going to operate this business. I also appreciate that our employees are key to making everthing happen, but the guest's interest have to come first. If we have limited terrain as is often the case on opening day in November, I feel it is the right thing to make sure that our paying guests (those people that allow up to meet payroll) have as nice an experience as possible.

If we have only top to bottom skiing on Jester to Downspout to Lower Downspout to Coffee Run, I will allow our paying guests to get the first runs and then allow employees to ski or ride later in the day. If we have more terrain open, I may allow all to get on the first lift.

Sorry if you don't like this, but that is just the way it is going to be so long as we own Sugarbush.

Everyone respects you personally and the fact that decisions like this are not casually made.

Respectfully, I suggest that the interests of customers (like me) and employees are not in conflict. We are all stakeholders---members of a 3-way partnership between owner/management, employees, and customers. For those of us who ski the Bush regularly, the employees have become more than friends---they are family. When we need advice on reliable shops, tradesmen. realtors, local politics, etc, they are the ones to whom we turn---not to mention advice on trail conditions, secret stashes and valley lore. We live with them as full-fledged neighbors in the valley. They visit with us when they come to the flatlands.

The situation strikes me as akin to when our parents allowed us a privilege that they denied to a brother or sister. It kind of took the fun out of the privilege. We still loved and respected our parents as decision makers, but somehow it just didn't feel right.

My feelings on this subject are certainly just that, i.e. feelings, subjective, yes, but real.

I appreciate your expressed intention to openly consider this subject, and yes, I do feel that I owe you an apology. I thought the decision had already been made. The fact that you are planning on at least a partial ski day for employees and perhaps a full day is more than I expected.

I look forward to seeing you on Saturday, and I apologize if I have caused a flap, but as a loyal, paying customer,one who brings dozens of flatland friends to the Bush every season, I feel entitled to express myself. Customer feedback is essential to success. In my business I tell my customers that I want their criticisms, not their silence. How else can I know what issues to address?

Keep the faith, brother Win.

N

win
11-20-2008, 03:47 PM
I am going to ask employees not to ski for the first two hours this Saturday morning for the reasons I mentioned earlier. That way we can ensure that the guests have the best experience on the limited terrain that will be open. I am quite confident that Upper grinder will be open on Sunday so all can get on the lift at 9am. See you Saturday morning. (In fairness of full disclosure, I and Adam will be on the first chairs) so don't anyone try to beat us to Heaven's Gate! This is one of the perks of ownership.

Treeskier
11-20-2008, 05:27 PM
Good compromise! Thank you for thinking of both us as clients and our good friends the employees! See you Saturday morning! Bundled up!

win
11-20-2008, 05:45 PM
Love it when people speak up, Notorious. Silence is deadly!

notorious
11-20-2008, 10:08 PM
Win,
Very nicely done. Sorry to be a pest. I certainly hope it works well for everyone. I believe you made a lot of people happy. What can be better than that?
N

summitchallenger
11-24-2008, 11:01 AM
After skiing Saturday, I will make this observation as a "paying guest." From 9-11, I found the traffic to be brisk, but friendly and not a problem. After 11am I noticed a definite increase in volume...which made it more difficult to enjoy the WROD. I also noticed that after 1pm all the "gaper teeanage bomb down the trail" snowboarders had been unleashed...and that pretty much ended my day.

Tin Woodsman
11-24-2008, 12:46 PM
After skiing Saturday, I will make this observation as a "paying guest." From 9-11, I found the traffic to be brisk, but friendly and not a problem. After 11am I noticed a definite increase in volume...which made it more difficult to enjoy the WROD. I also noticed that after 1pm all the "gaper teeanage bomb down the trail" snowboarders had been unleashed...and that pretty much ended my day.

Doesn't sound much different than any other mid-winter Saturday. Coincidence is not causation.

Of course it all would have been less noticeable with more terrain options to spread people out.

gone.skiing
11-24-2008, 12:58 PM
We skated on the chair all weekend, I do not think crowd was an issue at all. At 11 you got a bunch of people who drove up that morning and took a while to pick up passes (myself included).

summitchallenger
11-24-2008, 01:20 PM
After skiing Saturday, I will make this observation as a "paying guest." From 9-11, I found the traffic to be brisk, but friendly and not a problem. After 11am I noticed a definite increase in volume...which made it more difficult to enjoy the WROD. I also noticed that after 1pm all the "gaper teeanage bomb down the trail" snowboarders had been unleashed...and that pretty much ended my day.

Doesn't sound much different than any other mid-winter Saturday. Coincidence is not causation.

Of course it all would have been less noticeable with more terrain options to spread people out.

Again, do with it what you will, but there was a noticeable uptick in terms of traffic on the Deathspout after 11am.