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Last Tracks
10-15-2008, 08:51 AM
From the Times argus today...

Pretty funny, so has sugarbush really been flooded with calls?


"The controversy sparked over Burton's new line of "Love" snowboards has reached a boiling point as outraged parents have flooded company and ski resort phone lines. Many callers are admonishing the images of partially nude Playboy models from the 1970s on the boards.

Hollie Kretzer of Rutland said she wouldn't let her kids have one of the rides after getting one glance of brunette model Love's partially clad chest and legs on a snowboard base.

"No way," Kretzer said. "It's inappropriate for children, and I think they (Burton) are adding to a culture of violence and disrespect.

"The consumer has to send a message to the company that that's not what we want for our kids," she said. "It makes a parent's job that much more difficult."

According to Burton representative Mia Troy-Vowell, the 1,000 Burton Playboy limited edition boards, which cost more than $400 each, were created at the request of two of Burton's professional snowboarders, Mikkel Bang and Keegan Valaika, and were founded on "principles of individual freedom."

The collaboration between the winter gear company and Playboy "has resulted in boards that reflect this attitude. The imagery on the boards is tastefully done, and we believe that they will be collector's items. The snowboards will be fully wrapped with an 18+ age disclaimer to purchase," according to an e-mail sent by Troy-Vowell.

At Darkside Snowboards in Killington, a photo of brunette model "Love" is featured on the base of one of the boards, posing in a sexually suggestive position, her tiny white shirt hanging off her shoulder.

On the board's top deck is a shot of the model's naked buttocks.

Darkside is selling the boards with the age-appropriate disclaimer and displaying them wrapped in black covers, according to shop owner Bill Langlands.

Other area Burton retailers have decided not to carry them.

Ski resorts are on their own, left to decide if the boards are appropriate for use on their slopes.

Killington is not prohibiting use of the board, but is asking visitors to "exercise proper judgment," said communications manager Tom Horrocks.

Brandon Stevens, marketing and sales manager for Ascutney Mountain, said he expects he will have to "police" the issue.

"I'm sure we will have to address it because of the children that come to our mountain," Stevens said.

Although the mountain doesn't have a dress code or gear policy, the resort will handle all complaints on a case-by-case basis, he said.

The Vermont Ski Areas Association is not taking a position on the boards.

Although the association acknowledged the "personal" concern it has received from parents, "no unified decisions and comments" have been made, said Jen Butson, the association's director of public affairs.

According to Karen Tronsgard-Scott, director of the 16-member advocacy group Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence, the public display of the images and the descriptions on the board warrant public concern.

"Unlike Playboy magazine, which are more private, the boards are within the public domain," Tronsgard-Scott said.

"The images on the boards are from the 1970s and the descriptions below the boards are very sexual," she said. "It's as if the boards are talking in a seductive manner, and the concern I have is the direct link between the objectification of women and girls and violence against them."

Tronsgard-Scott has asked Burton to meet with her, but the company did not return calls, she said.

She said she wants to have a dialogue with Burton, a company she said had a "record of creating opportunities within their company for women and girls."

But Yale Cousino of Lincoln, a Burton-sponsored snowboarder, said he wouldn't mind having one.

Cousino said the boards were designed by 17- and 18-year-old kids with a love for getting back to the rebellious skateboarding roots that snowboarding grew out of.

"It's not complete nudity and it's nothing you wouldn't see every single day on everyday TV," Cousino said.

Joe Davis, 37, of West Rutland, said he wouldn't mind owning one either.

"I think it's pretty cool," Davis said.

"Parents should be more worried about other things, like a person getting killed and the person who did it getting nothing more than a misdemeanor.""

summitchallenger
10-15-2008, 10:37 AM
Funny how the media has been handling this. WCAX ran a story on it two weeks ago or so...VPR last week as did Rut Herald...and now the Argus.

Yard Sale
10-15-2008, 10:55 AM
Funny how the media has been handling this. WCAX ran a story on it two weeks ago or so...VPR last week as did Rut Herald...and now the Argus.

It's probably the persistant calls. . . . . from Burton.

If these boards are inappropriate for resort use/viewing, ban 'em: That way everyone get's what they want: Burton gets to perpetuate the niche it manufactures, the outlaw streetcred seeking counter-culture. Boarders that feel inclined to rail, get to rail against the Man for being oppressive. The Man get's to opress a misunderstood culture. Burton gets free pub and $400,000.

WWF-VT
10-15-2008, 11:52 AM
I saw a few of these boards at Darkside Snowboards in Stowe that were not on display wrapped in black covers.

summitchallenger
10-15-2008, 03:39 PM
Win heard you...from Win's Word:



On a separate note, I was surprised to learn about Burton's new "Love Board." Personally, I am surprised that Burton would come out with a board like this in this day and age. Our country values freedom of speech, and I would never endorse censorship. However, as a father of two daughters (and even one granddaughter), I personally find the board and the language contained in its advertising demeaning to women and not the message we want to impress on our children. I would have expected better judgment from a company of Burton's stature. We can't ban use of the Love Board here, but we can make sure our employees are not riding them, and our retail areas are not selling them.

Hawk
10-16-2008, 07:15 AM
Last I checked, public nudity was legal in VT Right? :roll:

Those boards aren't that bad. I think that in this internet age kids can and do look at all the nidity they want regardless of what parents say simply because they are told not to. There is nothing new with rebellious kids and they are everywhere. I know, I know...."not my kids"!

If you compare the graphics with what kids see on MTV and other generaly approved viewing outlets, what is the difference?

I just don't think its worth the amount of publicity it's getting....

Wait I have an idea. Ban snowboards all together. That'ill fix it! :wink:

Plowboy
10-16-2008, 07:37 AM
Maybe, Burton and Ben & Jerry's can come up with a winter flavor and board combo, "Thanks for the Mammaries" or "Ride the Tetons".

ski_resort_observer
10-16-2008, 08:00 AM
Pretty funny, so has sugarbush really been flooded with calls?

No.

For a company that wants to get all resorts to accept snowboarders they have a funny way of achieving this. I do know of one resort, Mt Ascutney, who has said they will not allow them. Kmart says they will act if they get complaints.

summitchallenger
10-16-2008, 09:54 AM
Pretty funny, so has sugarbush really been flooded with calls?

No.

For a company that wants to get all resorts to accept snowboarders they have a funny way of achieving this. I do know of one resort, Mt Ascutney, who has said they will not allow them. Kmart says they will act if they get complaints.

Really? Ascutney seems to suggest that they will "police" the issue:


Brandon Stevens, marketing and sales manager for Ascutney Mountain, said he expects he will have to "police" the issue.

castlerock
10-16-2008, 12:17 PM
This isn't a "nudity" issue. It is erotic imagery. If they need to be wrapped in black in the ski store, they have no place in liftlines.

I'm a big personal responsibility and personal freedom guy, UNTIL it interferes with the rights of others. I don't want my 6 year old girl or my 10 and 12 year old boys to be exposed to sexual images while skiing, period.

I think that Win's comment that he can't ban the boards at Sugarbush is not correct. He sure can, and I believe that he probably will have to revisit the thought if the family pass holders (like me) come complaining.

Tin Woodsman
10-16-2008, 12:30 PM
This isn't a "nudity" issue. It is erotic imagery. If they need to be wrapped in black in the ski store, they have no place in liftlines.

I'm a big personal responsibility and personal freedom guy, UNTIL it interferes with the rights of others. I don't want my 6 year old girl or my 10 and 12 year old boys to be exposed to sexual images while skiing, period.

I think that Win's comment that he can't ban the boards at Sugarbush is not correct. He sure can, and I believe that he probably will have to revisit the thought if the family pass holders (like me) come complaining.
+1

This has nothing to do with free speech or "a misunderstood culture". It has everything to do with a large corporation whipping up a faux controversy so they can appear to be more "core". Like their poaching campaign last year, it's pathetic and cynical.

notorious
10-16-2008, 12:41 PM
with all that's going on in the U.S. today, is this subject worth so much attention? I'm sure the controversy (such as it is) won't hurt sales. On the other hand I'm all for a massive board burning.

summitchallenger
10-16-2008, 12:49 PM
MRG won't have to worry about this issue....

walks
10-16-2008, 12:55 PM
I for one like seeing nude chicks in the lift line, as long as they are of playboy quality.

castlerock
10-16-2008, 01:06 PM
I for one like seeing nude chicks in the lift line, as long as they are of playboy quality.
On a powder day?

walks
10-16-2008, 01:10 PM
Any day but a powder day would make me feel warm and fuzzy.

djd66
10-16-2008, 01:12 PM
This isn't a "nudity" issue. It is erotic imagery. If they need to be wrapped in black in the ski store, they have no place in liftlines.

I'm a big personal responsibility and personal freedom guy, UNTIL it interferes with the rights of others. I don't want my 6 year old girl or my 10 and 12 year old boys to be exposed to sexual images while skiing, period.

I think that Win's comment that he can't ban the boards at Sugarbush is not correct. He sure can, and I believe that he probably will have to revisit the thought if the family pass holders (like me) come complaining.
+1

This has nothing to do with free speech or "a misunderstood culture". It has everything to do with a large corporation whipping up a faux controversy so they can appear to be more "core". Like their poaching campaign last year, it's pathetic and cynical.

Totally agree with Tin and CR. Just imagine what it would be like riding up a gondola, some boarder gets in with his board "nudie board" I am sitting there with my 2 kids (both very young) Free speach? Please tell me, what is the message you are trying to get across? I want to explain it to my 4 year old daughter.

shadyjay
10-16-2008, 01:26 PM
Ya know, maybe I'll go out and buy one and ride it this year.
:D
Its a freakin board, people! I don't see the big deal. This country's got some serious problems with "free speach" if stuff like this gets banned at a particular resort.

castlerock
10-16-2008, 01:31 PM
Ya know, maybe I'll go out and buy one and ride it this year.
:D
Its a freakin board, people! I don't see the big deal. This country's got some serious problems with "free speach" if stuff like this gets banned at a particular resort.


Call me after your first child turns 4...

notorious
10-16-2008, 01:42 PM
Ya know, maybe I'll go out and buy one and ride it this year.
:D
Its a freakin board, people! I don't see the big deal. This country's got some serious problems with "free speach" if stuff like this gets banned at a particular resort.


Call me after your first child turns 4...

that a nude skiing day would be a problem for you. Too bad. It would sure help the Bush viral marketing campaign.

labwab198
10-16-2008, 01:45 PM
I agree with CR and Tin. I think Win's problem is probably First Amendment issues since the resort is on National Forest Land. That being said though I wonder if you could limit where the boards are seen. Perhaps you could argue that since Burton thinks the boards are so graphic that they should be sold in black wrappers that no Nudie Board could be left in any public area (like a ski rack) without being covered up. And then you enforce it by having staff bring those unattended boards to the Guest Services desk. You might not be able to ban them but you might be able to make it very inconvenient for someone to use one.

Unfortunately Burton has put the resort operators in a very bad positon. Through no fault of their own the operators are going to bear the brunt of peeople's displeasure with these boards. Perhaps everyones anger should be directed at Burton in a way that hurts their bottom line. Thats the only kind of message they will understand.

Last Tracks
10-16-2008, 02:08 PM
Burton should sell leather or vinyl covers that responsible boarders could use to cover up the rude parts. They could attach to the board with small strings.

shadyjay
10-16-2008, 02:13 PM
I'm officially bowing out of this thread .... before I go on a rant.

See y'all at the mountain soon... with my plain old Rome board.

win
10-16-2008, 02:14 PM
Operataing on USFS land does create a different set of circumstances than if one is operating on private land. That said, we can and will control inappropriate behavior. So far I think we are the only resort that has commented on this subject. Maybe others will too!

madhavok
10-16-2008, 02:50 PM
Operataing on USFS land does create a different set of circumstances than if one is operating on private land. That said, we can and will control inappropriate behavior. So far I think we are the only resort that has commented on this subject. Maybe others will too!

Well said!

djd66
10-16-2008, 02:57 PM
How do you know when it pornography? You know it when you see it.

Here a link I found showing the boards: http://www.tactics.com/burton/coalition-love-snowboard?src=gglb

Again - if this is free speach, what is the message? i want to be able to expalain the message to my 4 yo daughter.

HowieT2
10-16-2008, 03:13 PM
Does the fact that some land is leased from the government afford additional speech protections? I'm asking because I don't know the answer. Even assuming it does, I doubt that this would fall under the category of political speech and therefore even if the government was involved, banning or limiting the display would be permissible. Perhaps VT has constitutional protections which are more extensive than the US, but I think the resort would be well within it's right to ban or limit the public display.

That being said, could someone post a picture of what the boards look like. The government (as opposed to a private entity) would be able to ban it if it is considered "obscene" which one can only judge by seeing it.

Yard Sale
10-16-2008, 03:15 PM
How do you know when it pornography? You know it when you see it.

Here a link I found showing the boards: http://www.tactics.com/burton/coalition-love-snowboard?src=gglb

Again - if this is free speach, what is the message? i want to be able to expalain the message to my 4 yo daughter.

Well, as I think of my 4 daughters, I think the message might be that person standing on that board over there is an idiot desperate for attention, deserves a dope slap and should have his ticket pulled. (Pardon my free speech.)

castlerock
10-16-2008, 03:17 PM
Seriously, I can't wait for this confrontation. I'll line up every blazer parent, and make the board owner run the gauntlet.

Skiing is a public sport, and participants must adhere to public decency mores. You can't make billboard like that, you can't put that on public broadcast TV. You can't sell that uncovered in a magazine. What makes Burton think you can display it at a ski area. I don't get it

HowieT2
10-16-2008, 03:28 PM
Seriously, I can't wait for this confrontation. I'll line up every blazer parent, and make the board owner run the gauntlet.

Skiing is a public sport, and participants must adhere to public decency mores. You can't make billboard like that, you can't put that on public broadcast TV. You can't sell that uncovered in a magazine. What makes Burton think you can display it at a ski area. I don't get it

I'm a blazer parent and I agree that it is inappropriate and shouldn't be allowed at the mountain. However, I don't know that the govt. would be able to censor it. I don't think it would be considered obscene. They definitely cut it close but I think we see similar things on TV now.

What don't you get? this is great marketing for Burton. They're not looking to score points with the likes of us (parents, older folk).

Lostone
10-16-2008, 03:40 PM
The way I see this is Burton has gotten a ton of free publicity from this, with no negative side. The people who object wouldn't be buying boards, anyway. Banning the boards will make them more popular. I don't see a downside, for Burton unless shops/areas decide to boycott all of their boards. More, I expect to see other manufacturers making more "expressive" boards, because of the free publicity Burton got.

As to the free speech issue, a friend once gave me a great line. "After "but" comes the truth." "I like free speech, but..." "I'm not a racist, but..." Following that but, comes the reason the speaker doesn't like free speech / is a racist.

Art is always a subjective thing. Which art should be allowed? Where should it be allowed? There are reasons these things keep coming up. No art is good to all people. Where do we draw the line? That question has been fought for centuries, and will for centuries more.

Interesting topic. 8)

summitchallenger
10-16-2008, 03:43 PM
I think Win's problem is probably First Amendment issues since the resort is on National Forest Land.

Possibly....the legal analysis would get pretty complicated and long....

BushMogulMaster
10-16-2008, 03:53 PM
You could ban them at Mt. Ellen, since the only way (aside from Long Trail) to access the USFS land at ME is through private property.

Hawk
10-16-2008, 04:13 PM
Now that the images are posted for everybody we can talk. I don't know about you but I have seen similar images on TV. If the FCC allows this then it can't be obscene. Right? I'm sure you would disagree.

My point is that you are going to take your conservative view, make a huge scene in the lift line and ruin the vibe at a place that is fun. There going to be this kid standing there being lambasted and not understanding what is going on. Over what, some almost obsene graphics. Sounds harsh.

I don't know, it's been my experience that kids brought up to think that the human body is beautiful usually come out ok and well adjusted.

This is just getting out of hand over nothing.

Hawk out!

Tin Woodsman
10-16-2008, 04:15 PM
I'm a blazer parent and I agree that it is inappropriate and shouldn't be allowed at the mountain. However, I don't know that the govt. would be able to censor it. I don't think it would be considered obscene. They definitely cut it close but I think we see similar things on TV now.
Maybe, but the difference is I can always change the channel, turn off the TV, or tell my kid to get out of the room so Mommy and Daddy can "have some quiet time". What do I do if some jamoke is in front of me and my kid in the liftline with this thing on?


What don't you get? this is great marketing for Burton. They're not looking to score points with the likes of us (parents, older folk).
Obviously. It's a cynical ploy designed solely to generate publicity.

HowieT2
10-16-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm a blazer parent and I agree that it is inappropriate and shouldn't be allowed at the mountain. However, I don't know that the govt. would be able to censor it. I don't think it would be considered obscene. They definitely cut it close but I think we see similar things on TV now.
Maybe, but the difference is I can always change the channel, turn off the TV, or tell my kid to get out of the room so Mommy and Daddy can "have some quiet time". What do I do if some jamoke is in front of me and my kid in the liftline with this thing on?


What don't you get? this is great marketing for Burton. They're not looking to score points with the likes of us (parents, older folk).
Obviously. It's a cynical ploy designed solely to generate publicity.

LOL- what's a "jamoke"

I was only using television as an example of a medium where the government censors content within the US constitutions freedom of speech. As previously indicated, I don't think SB operates under the same restrictions as the government.
While you do have the choice of turning the tv off etc., you could also choose not to patronize SB.

smootharc
10-16-2008, 04:25 PM
....on the censorship and "what is & what isn't prurient/appropriate issue". No easy answers.

I'm a parent. Where do the lines get drawn in the sand ? If I had a nickel for every f-bomb I've heard dropped by a gaggle of 14 year olds in Gatehouse at lunch time....then I'd be taking 8 hour privates with Egan Brutha.....daily !

What does having one of those boards visible in the window of an SUV driving down the road consist of ? How about some of the bumper stickers I've seen (blatantly obscene ones) ? Where's highway patrol when you need 'em ?

How to protect your kid vs. allowing them to be "exposed" to the world around us and then inviting them to think and decide things on their own terms ? And at what age ? Tough for parents. And tough spot for resort management to be in when the first angry parent shows up at the service desk. We're at the pizza parlor the other night and the news playing has car bombings, a hijack attempt, and some dude arrested in a sting for.....you can imagine.

I don't have any answers here. And since I always need to end on a flip and funny note....personally I think they ain't half-bad looking boards....from a purely artistic/aesthetic standpoint. But I guess their bikinis must have fallen off....because they don't appear to have clothes on ! :wink: Ah....my formative years.....they've left me warped !

castlerock
10-16-2008, 04:31 PM
Now that the images are posted for everybody we can talk. I don't know about you but I have seen similar images on TV. If the FCC allows this then it can't be obscene. Right? I'm sure you would disagree.

No it isn't obscene, not even close. However, it is not appropriate in an "all-ages" public setting. It never has been. You can't display the cover of Playboy in a store.


My point is that you are going to take your conservative view, make a huge scene in the lift line and ruin the vibe at a place that is fun. There going to be this kid standing there being lambasted and not understanding what is going on. Over what, some almost obsene graphics. Sounds harsh.

Sorry, I'm far from a conservative, I'm called a flaming Liberal by all who know me, and as a true liberal, I'm actually for family values, fostering family and community (as opposed to faking it). The culprit ruining the vibe would be the ignorant owner of the board, who is trying to make a "look at me" statement, at the expense of my kids.


I don't know, it's been my experience that kids brought up to think that the human body is beautiful usually come out ok and well adjusted.

You are definitely correct about that, and I am bringing my kids up that way. The problem is that the presentation in this case is not one of beauty, it is of "sexy", and the sub 13 year-olds it is presented to have no context to understand the difference.

Look, I never put any real thought into these things, until I had the responsibility of bringing up children.

ski_resort_observer
10-16-2008, 05:36 PM
More news
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=9187142&nav=4QcS

aejkb
10-16-2008, 06:53 PM
They arent that bad. Neverthless, I doubt very much that you will see one of these at Sugarbush--maybe out west, but not staid New England. The guy who is stupid enough to buy one of these is not going to like the attention he's going to get. I would be much more worried about my teenage daughter riding on the lift with a burned out boarder dude that she thinks is cute.

gone.skiing
10-17-2008, 07:45 AM
I would not worry about having to explain too much to your 11 year olds. It is all being covered in schools by sex ed programs. If you think your kids are not exposed to this stuff, think again.

I am assuming everyone has traveled here. Are you not going to take your kids to the museums or will you cover their eyes if you come across nude picture? Are you not going to take them to the beach in Europe? Are you really policing them that closely? No video games with accurate graphics of brain matter flying around? No Hannah Montana or whatever the hell it is? It is just an image. Just like hundreds of images in fashion magazines. Unless you make a big deal out of it, I doubt your kids will notice it and if they do all that will come out of it is a chuckle.

Now, whoever brought f-bombs flying around, I would fully back up. Try riding through terrain park or stopping next to the group of teenagers with your kids.

castlerock
10-17-2008, 08:00 AM
I would not worry about having to explain too much to your 11 year olds. It is all being covered in schools by sex ed programs. If you think your kids are not exposed to this stuff, think again.

I am assuming everyone has traveled here. Are you not going to take your kids to the museums or will you cover their eyes if you come across nude picture? Are you not going to take them to the beach in Europe? Are you really policing them that closely?

I think the subtlety of the point has gone missing. My 6 year old daughter doesn't imagine herself in the style of a Reubens painting. She does look at the icons of the "older" kids, and projects herself into that. I don't want her imagining herself as a "ho".

Nudity is fine, sexual imagery (notice I didn't say obscene) is not, in a public place. You can be nude on the beaches of the Mediterranean, you can't have sex on them. If you do you cross the cultural line. Those images cross the cultural line here, again in the public (as opposed to adult environment

gone.skiing
10-17-2008, 09:02 AM
I did not see anyone having sex in board pictures. There is nothing on them that you won't see in SI swimsuit issue which is not in the same category as Playboy. Is it pushing it? Absolutely. Should Win and Co make lifties and Patrol pull tickets for these boards? That would be sad.

Yard Sale
10-17-2008, 09:18 AM
I would not worry about having to explain too much to your 11 year olds. It is all being covered in schools by sex ed programs. If you think your kids are not exposed to this stuff, think again.

I am assuming everyone has traveled here. Are you not going to take your kids to the museums or will you cover their eyes if you come across nude picture? Are you not going to take them to the beach in Europe? Are you really policing them that closely? No video games with accurate graphics of brain matter flying around? No Hannah Montana or whatever the hell it is? It is just an image. Just like hundreds of images in fashion magazines. Unless you make a big deal out of it, I doubt your kids will notice it and if they do all that will come out of it is a chuckle.

Now, whoever brought f-bombs flying around, I would fully back up. Try riding through terrain park or stopping next to the group of teenagers with your kids.

For reasons that are obviuos to most, it's a more than a little bit presumptuous to say to someone don't worry about how to explain it to their kids. And comparing sexually erotic pictures to the cultural differences between beach attire in Europe or the US, or to artistic masterpieces is frankly, pretty ridiculous. Thes chicks are posing for a skin mag. And I have no problem with Playboy per se. It's fine if that is how you want to spend your time money, consenting adults etc. Just don't insist that my kids participate and enjoy it with you.

Sure there are plenty of things in this world that are far more important to discuss with your kids, but that doesn't mean that this is O.K. So why then should we be compelled to address these foolish boards when we're trying to enjoy the mountains and maybe learn a more valuable lesson. Ideally a family should not be confronted by something that is so unnecessary and so very demeaning to females at a family resort. It deminishes our experience and the riders of these boards do not have the right IMHO to do that.

But, if by some chance, we encouter one or more of these boards while at the 'Bush, we'll have a learning experience about what may or may not be appropriate behavior and attire for a family resort and a wonderful example of what a complete and total pathetic loser looks like, so be it. Yes, our society continues to become more and more exploitive, and that is something we just need to deal with, but that doesn't mean we have to like it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action to avoid or prevent it. It doesn't mean as paying customers that we shouldn't request some assistance from management.

To try to preserve and revel in your children's innocence for as long as reasonably possible, doesn't mean you're conservative or liberal it means you're normal and you love your childeren. So, to think that by simply identifying that policing the the content of the increasing on slaught of media on childeren is a parents responsibilty somehow means that we shouldn't worry about it and lighten up is short sighted Bu11 Sh1t! (Notice how I edited that "BS" word because swearing happens every where, but that doesn't mena that it is apropriate her at SkiMRV. Get it?)

I wonder why Burton does't do a Maplethorp board? Maplethorp's an artist.

summitchallenger
10-17-2008, 09:27 AM
Looks like ski season can't get here soon enough!!!!!!

HowieT2
10-17-2008, 09:32 AM
Here's to having so much powder we never see the the artwork on any ski/board. Bring on the snow. Cures all wrongs.

chuck
10-17-2008, 10:19 AM
LOL - I draw the line at the Maplethorpe boards!!!

Does anyone remember the "Ladies of Lange" poster promotion, from many years ago?

comments.....

Tin Woodsman
10-17-2008, 11:24 AM
LOL - I draw the line at the Maplethorpe boards!!!

Does anyone remember the "Ladies of Lange" poster promotion, from many years ago?

comments.....
I loved it, but it's not hanging up in my daughter's room. That sort of gets to the heart of the difference here.

Last Tracks
10-17-2008, 11:45 AM
Well its a gorgeous sunny day in Vermont and there is a chill in the air.

Looks like the global financial system isn't going to collapse today, so I am going to step out and go for a hike in the beautiful Mad River Valley.

After all, you can't buy your life back.

I sure hope I don't see any naked women on the mountain today!

Lostone
10-17-2008, 01:33 PM
I hope I do. (Just so I can take pix of them, you understand. :wink: ) And I hope that they're not just pictures on snowboards. :)

summitchallenger
10-17-2008, 02:25 PM
I hope I do. (Just so I can take pix of them, you understand. :wink: ) And I hope that they're not just pictures on snowboards. :)

x 2!!!!!

vonski
10-17-2008, 02:45 PM
I am a parent as well and new to this site but have been lurking for about a year now. I finally decided to register as this topic has gotten crazy. I saw in the original post for this topic that these boards are a limited addition of 1,000 boards. So, are they really going to show up at Sugarbush. I would guess that maybe one or two are going to show up at the mountain this year. And I have to agree that they are sexy, but it certainly is not going to garner anything more than a chuckle from my 10 year old if he sees them. I personally find the self mutilating boards to be more offensive as that can truely be a far more dangerous problem for todays youth. Not seeing some girls buttocks! Is there any shop selling them in the valley?

castlerock
10-18-2008, 08:13 AM
I personally find the self mutilating boards to be more offensive as that can truely be a far more dangerous problem for todays youth.

The self mutilation issue is definitely disturbing

ski_resort_observer
10-18-2008, 10:04 AM
I personally find the self mutilating boards to be more offensive as that can truely be a far more dangerous problem for todays youth.

The self mutilation issue is definitely disturbing

I'm with you guys on this but I'm curious if maybe the self mutilation issue is just a tattoo or is it really something extreme along the line of a Maplethorpe photo? I haven't seen the boards in person.

castlerock
10-18-2008, 10:50 AM
I saw one image of a hand, with several fingers cut off and blood dripping from the stumps. that is disturbing.

random_ski_guy
10-18-2008, 01:30 PM
This isn't a "nudity" issue. It is erotic imagery. If they need to be wrapped in black in the ski store, they have no place in liftlines.

I'm a big personal responsibility and personal freedom guy, UNTIL it interferes with the rights of others. I don't want my 6 year old girl or my 10 and 12 year old boys to be exposed to sexual images while skiing, period.

I think that Win's comment that he can't ban the boards at Sugarbush is not correct. He sure can, and I believe that he probably will have to revisit the thought if the family pass holders (like me) come complaining.
+1

This has nothing to do with free speech or "a misunderstood culture". It has everything to do with a large corporation whipping up a faux controversy so they can appear to be more "core". Like their poaching campaign last year, it's pathetic and cynical.

Agreed!

random_ski_guy
10-18-2008, 01:43 PM
I would not worry about having to explain too much to your 11 year olds. It is all being covered in schools by sex ed programs. If you think your kids are not exposed to this stuff, think again.

I am assuming everyone has traveled here. Are you not going to take your kids to the museums or will you cover their eyes if you come across nude picture? Are you not going to take them to the beach in Europe? Are you really policing them that closely? No video games with accurate graphics of brain matter flying around? No Hannah Montana or whatever the hell it is? It is just an image. Just like hundreds of images in fashion magazines. Unless you make a big deal out of it, I doubt your kids will notice it and if they do all that will come out of it is a chuckle.

Now, whoever brought f-bombs flying around, I would fully back up. Try riding through terrain park or stopping next to the group of teenagers with your kids.

For reasons that are obviuos to most, it's a more than a little bit presumptuous to say to someone don't worry about how to explain it to their kids. And comparing sexually erotic pictures to the cultural differences between beach attire in Europe or the US, or to artistic masterpieces is frankly, pretty ridiculous. Thes chicks are posing for a skin mag. And I have no problem with Playboy per se. It's fine if that is how you want to spend your time money, consenting adults etc. Just don't insist that my kids participate and enjoy it with you.

Sure there are plenty of things in this world that are far more important to discuss with your kids, but that doesn't mean that this is O.K. So why then should we be compelled to address these foolish boards when we're trying to enjoy the mountains and maybe learn a more valuable lesson. Ideally a family should not be confronted by something that is so unnecessary and so very demeaning to females at a family resort. It deminishes our experience and the riders of these boards do not have the right IMHO to do that.

But, if by some chance, we encouter one or more of these boards while at the 'Bush, we'll have a learning experience about what may or may not be appropriate behavior and attire for a family resort and a wonderful example of what a complete and total pathetic loser looks like, so be it. Yes, our society continues to become more and more exploitive, and that is something we just need to deal with, but that doesn't mean we have to like it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take action to avoid or prevent it. It doesn't mean as paying customers that we shouldn't request some assistance from management.

To try to preserve and revel in your children's innocence for as long as reasonably possible, doesn't mean you're conservative or liberal it means you're normal and you love your childeren. So, to think that by simply identifying that policing the the content of the increasing on slaught of media on childeren is a parents responsibilty somehow means that we shouldn't worry about it and lighten up is short sighted Bu11 Sh1t! (Notice how I edited that "BS" word because swearing happens every where, but that doesn't mena that it is apropriate her at SkiMRV. Get it?)

I wonder why Burton does't do a Maplethorp board? Maplethorp's an artist.

I am not sure eveyone is familiar with Maplethorp. Let me help you. I think we can expect these images to hit snowboards in another couple seasons. http://www.mapplethorpe.org/malenudes.html

notorious
10-20-2008, 08:12 PM
are we so wonky about the human body? What is more common? We all have one. Chill, my brethren and sistren.

barkbiter
10-20-2008, 09:01 PM
I'm a blazer parent and I agree that it is inappropriate and shouldn't be allowed at the mountain. However, I don't know that the govt. would be able to censor it. I don't think it would be considered obscene. They definitely cut it close but I think we see similar things on TV now.
Maybe, but the difference is I can always change the channel, turn off the TV, or tell my kid to get out of the room so Mommy and Daddy can "have some quiet time". What do I do if some jamoke is in front of me and my kid in the liftline with this thing on?


What don't you get? this is great marketing for Burton. They're not looking to score points with the likes of us (parents, older folk).
Obviously. It's a cynical ploy designed solely to generate publicity.

Please, where is the moderator team..................jamoke is not an appropriate term to use in a family message board situation.
D.Nozzle

Nozzletown

Lostone
10-20-2008, 09:18 PM
Jamoke, meaning "a stupid or inconsequential fellow," is used mainly in informal speech or slang and only rarely appears in print.

Jamoke is thought to have originated about a century ago as jamocha in the argot of sailors or gangsters (or perhaps both). Jamocha was probably a blend of Java and Mocha, names of two locations famous for their coffee beans. What does coffee have to do with a stupid fellow? Nothing. In its original incarnation, jamocha was jargon for a cup of coffee, used much in the same way we use cup of java today. As recently as the Prohibition era, a writer used the "coffee" sense, observing, "There ain't nothin' stronger in the booze line than pure alky mixed with jamocha."

We're not sure how jamocha made the jump from coffee to cretins, but the extension of meaning seems to have occurred during the 1920s. It was then that members of the U.S. military began referring to each other first as jamochas (perhaps to identify someone who wasn't any brighter or more important than a cup of coffee) and then as jamochs. The word seems to have settled into its jamoke spelling during the 1940s.


PS... I'm here. :wink:

castlerock
10-20-2008, 09:19 PM
Please, where is the moderator team..................jamoke is not an appropriate term to use in a family message board situation.


jamoke

In general, a blue-collar male of a specific physical or cultural profile, typically of an East Coast derivation, burly and boisterous. As a term of affection, similar to "big lug". As an epithet, rarely rises above the level of exasperation.

????

boze
10-20-2008, 11:01 PM
Please, where is the moderator team..................jamoke is not an appropriate term to use in a family message board situation.


jamoke

In general, a blue-collar male of a specific physical or cultural profile, typically of an East Coast derivation, burly and boisterous. As a term of affection, similar to "big lug". As an epithet, rarely rises above the level of exasperation.

????

consider the source of the complaint... :roll:

not to mention your 'freedom of expression'

//JaMaicanMeLaugh//

notorious
10-21-2008, 09:00 AM
[
Please, where is the moderator team..................jamoke is not an appropriate term to use in a family message board situation.
D.Nozzle

Nozzletown[/quote]

Explaining the elusive barkbiter humor to the uninitiated is risky, but, I do believe the point he's making is that there is a parallel between getting hot and bothered over a teasing playmate graphic on a snowboard and calling those who use these snowboards the epithet "jamokes". Both are mildly offensive, but neither is worth all the attention being devoted to the subject. If you are so sensitive that a little cheescake on a snowboard offends, don't be using derogatory characterizations of others because they might be similarly offended.

Boze, I think, got the point. Others missed it.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with the barkbiter.

Skiable snow on the peaks tomorrow?

ski_resort_observer
10-24-2008, 04:57 PM
more news
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081024/NEWS01/810240370/1002/NEWS01

chuck
10-30-2008, 02:18 PM
I found this article today.

http://news.aol.com/article/racy-snowboards-banned-from-slopes/231728

Tin Woodsman
10-30-2008, 05:32 PM
Explaining the elusive barkbiter humor to the uninitiated is risky, but, I do believe the point he's making is that there is a parallel between getting hot and bothered over a teasing playmate graphic on a snowboard and calling those who use these snowboards the epithet "jamokes". Both are mildly offensive, but neither is worth all the attention being devoted to the subject. If you are so sensitive that a little cheescake on a snowboard offends, don't be using derogatory characterizations of others because they might be similarly offended.

Boze, I think, got the point. Others missed it.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with the barkbiter.



Zzzzzzzzz....

Wake me when the irrelevancy ends.

notorious
10-31-2008, 07:42 AM
Explaining the elusive barkbiter humor to the uninitiated is risky, but, I do believe the point he's making is that there is a parallel between getting hot and bothered over a teasing playmate graphic on a snowboard and calling those who use these snowboards the epithet "jamokes". Both are mildly offensive, but neither is worth all the attention being devoted to the subject. If you are so sensitive that a little cheescake on a snowboard offends, don't be using derogatory characterizations of others because they might be similarly offended.

Boze, I think, got the point. Others missed it.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with the barkbiter.



Zzzzzzzzz....


Tin, it is so over, but thanks for being such an attentive moderator.

Wake me when the irrelevancy ends.