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ski_it
09-05-2008, 08:47 AM
from firsttracksonline.com: Vermont Ski and Snowboard Resorts Roll Out Improvements for 2008-09 (http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4848)


Cat skiing? In New England? With the purchase a new Pisten Bully cat cab, Sugarbush will be the only resort in the East to have cat skiing. Traditionally, the resort closes its Mt. Ellen first in late March. When that happens, Sugarbush's highest peak will become the domain of the 12-passenger cat.

April cat skiing at Mt. Ellen?

I'm also interested to hear more about the plans to drive passengers into Slidebrook. I'm personally not very excited about the prospect of that, but I'm happy to see the investment and think it will be great that they will be able to get people up to Allyn's Lodge for events there.

castlerock
09-06-2008, 08:24 AM
I doubt they will be catting into slidebrook. But I could see them selling a pre-lift opening ride up to the top of North Lynx for first track access with the guides.

ski_it
09-06-2008, 11:09 AM
from the marketing email from Sugarbush dated August 27th:



We are also going to offer an evening dinner package at Allyn's Lodge on certain weekend and holiday evenings (great for birthday and anniversary celebrations) serviced by our newly–acquired 12–person snow cat (there will also be hiking and skiing options). The cat will also be available on certain days for first tracks into Slide Brook and afternoon and evening adventure tours (kids love snow cat rides!).

summitchallenger
09-06-2008, 11:21 AM
I second Cat Skiing on Mt. Ellen late season. Limited services...Glen House only...maybe run the Summit Quad or something.

castlerock
09-06-2008, 11:23 AM
from the marketing email from Sugarbush dated August 27th:



We are also going to offer an evening dinner package at Allyn's Lodge on certain weekend and holiday evenings (great for birthday and anniversary celebrations) serviced by our newly–acquired 12–person snow cat (there will also be hiking and skiing options). The cat will also be available on certain days for first tracks into Slide Brook and afternoon and evening adventure tours (kids love snow cat rides!).


Just as I said, First tracks in slidebrook doesn't mean the cat will go there. It would be a waste. The cat will go up to the top of North Lynx, drop off the customers, then they will do the traverse and go ski the main lines.

The rest of us will track out the steeper and deeper main mountain woods first and then later head off to places in Slide brook, and still get first tracks.

HowieT2
09-06-2008, 12:45 PM
from the marketing email from Sugarbush dated August 27th:



We are also going to offer an evening dinner package at Allyn's Lodge on certain weekend and holiday evenings (great for birthday and anniversary celebrations) serviced by our newly–acquired 12–person snow cat (there will also be hiking and skiing options). The cat will also be available on certain days for first tracks into Slide Brook and afternoon and evening adventure tours (kids love snow cat rides!).


Just as I said, First tracks in slidebrook doesn't mean the cat will go there. It would be a waste. The cat will go up to the top of North Lynx, drop off the customers, then they will do the traverse and go ski the main lines.

The rest of us will track out the steeper and deeper main mountain woods first and then later head off to places in Slide brook, and still get first tracks.

Either way it's cool and I'd like to know what the cost is going to be.

Yard Sale
09-06-2008, 01:56 PM
My guess is that due to limited capacity alone and then considering costs, the cat is going to be a little pricey. As far as late season Ellen skiing, I would think that the Glen House won't be open as, again limited capacity, it wouldn,t make sense to open food and beverage services. So I suspect picnic style fare may be available and/or pack your own lunch.

Yard Sale
09-11-2008, 03:39 PM
A photo of the new cat would go nicely on sb.com and would go towards creating some pre launch buzz for the '08-'09 season.

win
09-15-2008, 10:24 PM
Come to Community Day and hear more!

Plowboy
09-16-2008, 09:44 AM
A photo of the new cat would go nicely on sb.com and would go towards creating some pre launch buzz for the '08-'09 season.

I think the cab is in the shop at ME being repainted and or refurbished.

Treeskier
10-06-2008, 08:45 AM
Sneak Preview:

http://www.clubxtaski.com/080906_Farm_Aid_web/photos/052.jpg

http://www.clubxtaski.com/080906_Farm_Aid_web/photos/053.jpg

win
10-06-2008, 09:21 AM
I should have know that Treeskier would be sneaking around with his camera and spoiling my Community Day surprise! (Just kidding, Gregg. Hope to see everyone this weekend. It should be a great week and weekend, so plan to be here!) You can invite some Killington refugees as well!

Lostone
10-06-2008, 09:48 AM
How do cats ski, anyway? :?

Do they have 2 skis, or 4, one for each leg?

Does Surefoot have kitty boots? Who checks the bindings? That just has to be a light release! What kind of tool do they use to check it? All these questions and more, come to mind.

A guy went into the Adventure Gear Center yesterday. He had a dog with im and he wrapped the leash around the bindings of one of the demo skis, outside.

I asked the guys if those bindings had been checked for a dog release. They looked at me like I was... crazy. :shock: Can you imagine that? :? Makes me a little hesitant to ask them about the kitty skis. :roll:

smootharc
10-06-2008, 12:28 PM
....that's a shiny red intergalactic powder pod ! Get some logos on that thing and rent it by the night !

smootharc
10-06-2008, 12:39 PM
....the possibilities of the above Inverness pod enter into the discussion....with Mr. Snowcat at the "Cat-alyst". Interesting, anyways....

http://forums.alpinezone.com/36829-has-sugarbush-hired-killingtons-page-ranking-dept-16.html

Above Inverness seems about as drool inducing a terrain possibility as anything in the East. Seemingly and realistically "possible" and "doable", instead of just "hopeful" and "dreamable"....

Treeskier
10-06-2008, 03:30 PM
Thanks Win, Hope it is a great weekend...I am doing my good turn for the weekend and will not be up. Hope everyone has a great time! I head there where tracks last Friday at our neighbor's hill. Fall foliage is spectacular!

quadburn
10-06-2008, 03:35 PM
I'll never forget skiing down that long lost lift line above Inverness back in 1974. Me and my pals bought a one-ride ticket up the single chair at Mad River, hiked a quarter mile south along the Long Trail. paused to take in the extraordinary view of Mt. Ellen accross the bowl, and then dropped in.

Tin Woodsman
10-06-2008, 03:39 PM
I'll never forget skiing down that long lost lift line above Inverness back in 1974. Me and my pals bought a one-ride ticket up the single chair at Mad River, hiked a quarter mile south along the Long Trail. paused to take in the extraordinary view of Mt. Ellen accross the bowl, and then dropped in.
Would be a difficult trick to repeat now with 35 years worth of growth blocking your path these days. I understand it's intensely shwacky, at least on the old liftline itself.

If they want to run a cat up there, as Win claimed today on AZ, then they are going to have to do quite a bit of work on the under story.

Hawk
10-06-2008, 03:54 PM
Tin, what make you think somebody already hasn't............Oh never mind. :wink:

win
10-06-2008, 07:02 PM
work is what requires permitting!

Tin Woodsman
10-06-2008, 08:39 PM
Tin, what make you think somebody already hasn't............Oh never mind. :wink:

Yoooooouuu!

I was talking about the old liftline itself, rather than the environs. At least as of March 2001, it was a brutal shwack fest in that deepest of winters.

Tin Woodsman
10-06-2008, 08:43 PM
work is what requires permitting!

I need a tissue.

Hardbooter
10-07-2008, 04:39 PM
The stuff above Inverness where that lift line used to be is super flat. I don't think it would be worth the hike or a drive up in a cat. The stuff between there and exterm is hikable though and I bet it's good. I'm not sure how anyone would get a cat anywhere near that terrain without cutting a road. My guess is that the cat skiing will be in-bounds but during off hours or something. Come to think of it, it's not clear to me what they might use it for other than a sleepover at Alan's Lodge.

I can't make it to community weekend so I'd love it if someone would post the answers to these questions during the weekend. Thanks.

BushMogulMaster
10-07-2008, 05:38 PM
The stuff above Inverness where that lift line used to be is super flat. I don't think it would be worth the hike or a drive up in a cat.

??? Not quite!

The area in red was the general area where the original expansion was planned >30 years ago. It's a nice mix of Intermediate, Upper Intermediate, and Advanced pitch terrain.

http://www.mogulskiing.net/images/ipeak.JPG

Treeskier
10-07-2008, 06:20 PM
Having skied it twice. It has good pitch up top and then mellows out. It would make a great sunny bowl at North for intermediates, much the way North Lynx aspires intermediates at South. Both times I skied it, was when our snow depths where at our highest and it was still very very thwacky and over grown. The sunny bowl fosters lots of growth!

bill-now
10-07-2008, 06:34 PM
I find it interesting that the lift that was proposed for above Inverness is shown on the 1971 USGS map.

See: http://sugarbushhistory.com/ellen.png

BushMogulMaster
10-07-2008, 06:37 PM
I find it interesting that the proposed lift above Inverness is shown on the 1971 USGS map.

See: http://sugarbushhistory.com/ellen.png

Probably because the line was cut, and there were plans to install the lift at the time of the survey.

Strat
10-07-2008, 06:38 PM
I find it interesting that the proposed lift above Inverness is shown on the 1971 USGS map.

See: http://sugarbushhistory.com/ellen.png

Probably because the line was cut, and there were plans to install the lift at the time of the survey.

Ahh, sugarbushhistory.com! Haven't thought about that in a while, eh BMM?
8)

BushMogulMaster
10-07-2008, 06:41 PM
I find it interesting that the proposed lift above Inverness is shown on the 1971 USGS map.

See: http://sugarbushhistory.com/ellen.png

Probably because the line was cut, and there were plans to install the lift at the time of the survey.

Ahh, sugarbushhistory.com! Haven't thought about that in a while, eh BMM?
8)

Funny, I was just about to mention that it's due for a MAJOR overhaul and update! I wrote a 12 page research paper on the history of Sugarbush and analyzing different ownership practices for my Intro to Ski Area Ops class last year, and I need to implement that somewhere into the site. Definitely need to get a new photo gallery going, and maybe get some vid up. Also time to update the SVNE page.

Maybe I'll find the time later this month. I'm still trying to catch up on www.mogulskiing.net -- my primary focus at the moment.

Strat
10-07-2008, 06:48 PM
I find it interesting that the proposed lift above Inverness is shown on the 1971 USGS map.

See: http://sugarbushhistory.com/ellen.png

Probably because the line was cut, and there were plans to install the lift at the time of the survey.

Ahh, sugarbushhistory.com! Haven't thought about that in a while, eh BMM?
8)

Funny, I was just about to mention that it's due for a MAJOR overhaul and update! I wrote a 12 page research paper on the history of Sugarbush and analyzing different ownership practices for my Intro to Ski Area Ops class last year, and I need to implement that somewhere into the site. Definitely need to get a new photo gallery going, and maybe get some vid up. Also time to update the SVNE page.

Maybe I'll find the time later this month. I'm still trying to catch up on www.mogulskiing.net -- my primary focus at the moment.

I definitely want to check out that paper - did you do additional research, or just work off of the materials we had already? The site definitely needs some work, but it's tough being at college and working on the side interests as well, a fact which I am now quite aware of, haha...

BushMogulMaster
10-07-2008, 06:49 PM
I find it interesting that the proposed lift above Inverness is shown on the 1971 USGS map.

See: http://sugarbushhistory.com/ellen.png

Probably because the line was cut, and there were plans to install the lift at the time of the survey.

Ahh, sugarbushhistory.com! Haven't thought about that in a while, eh BMM?
8)

Funny, I was just about to mention that it's due for a MAJOR overhaul and update! I wrote a 12 page research paper on the history of Sugarbush and analyzing different ownership practices for my Intro to Ski Area Ops class last year, and I need to implement that somewhere into the site. Definitely need to get a new photo gallery going, and maybe get some vid up. Also time to update the SVNE page.

Maybe I'll find the time later this month. I'm still trying to catch up on www.mogulskiing.net -- my primary focus at the moment.

I definitely want to check out that paper - did you do additional research, or just work off of the materials we had already? The site definitely needs some work, but it's tough being at college and working on the side interests as well, a fact which I am now quite aware of, haha...

For sure!

I just emailed you the paper in PDF form (to sugarbushhistory(at)gmail(dot)com). I referenced tons of interesting sources beyond what we had before, including an interview with Win.

Hardbooter
10-08-2008, 07:18 AM
That old life line is still visible on many recent aerial and satellite photos. You can follow the line up from that corner of brambles up to the summit.

That would be a great place to put a surface lift that could run when it's windy as long as we have a way to exit if we ski on skiers left of the stream. That terrain looks like fun but it dumps us over behind fiddlehead condos and that snowmaking stuff (or whatever that is back there.) Sugarbush would need to build a bridge or something to get people back onto inverness. I'm pretty sure sugarbush owns all that land so I think it's a little more likely to be able to be skied than stuff that is national forest land.

No one has yet answered how you might get a snowcat into any of that stuff. I think the snowcat is unlikely to be used for out of bounds skiing but that's just my guess.

BushMogulMaster
10-08-2008, 11:09 AM
That old life line is still visible on many recent aerial and satellite photos. You can follow the line up from that corner of brambles up to the summit.

That would be a great place to put a surface lift that could run when it's windy as long as we have a way to exit if we ski on skiers left of the stream. That terrain looks like fun but it dumps us over behind fiddlehead condos and that snowmaking stuff (or whatever that is back there.) Sugarbush would need to build a bridge or something to get people back onto inverness. I'm pretty sure sugarbush owns all that land so I think it's a little more likely to be able to be skied than stuff that is national forest land.

No one has yet answered how you might get a snowcat into any of that stuff. I think the snowcat is unlikely to be used for out of bounds skiing but that's just my guess.

Quote from Win at AlpineZone:


Could be some great Cat skiing terrain! Needs some permitting, so can't do this winter but hopefully next year!

Hardbooter
10-08-2008, 11:28 AM
Yes, it needs permitting and a road and a whole lot of thwack removal. I'm enthusiastic but I'm not going to hold my breath. I think it's a few years off if it happens at all. Since a lot of the existing out of bounds skiing is getting crowded, I think it's great that people are thinking about new terrain even if it's seems a bit theoretical.

Tin Woodsman
10-08-2008, 11:59 AM
That old life line is still visible on many recent aerial and satellite photos. You can follow the line up from that corner of brambles up to the summit.

That would be a great place to put a surface lift that could run when it's windy as long as we have a way to exit if we ski on skiers left of the stream. That terrain looks like fun but it dumps us over behind fiddlehead condos and that snowmaking stuff (or whatever that is back there.) Sugarbush would need to build a bridge or something to get people back onto inverness. I'm pretty sure sugarbush owns all that land so I think it's a little more likely to be able to be skied than stuff that is national forest land.

No one has yet answered how you might get a snowcat into any of that stuff. I think the snowcat is unlikely to be used for out of bounds skiing but that's just my guess.
The property maps I have indicate that the stream you are talking about is actually the property line. They could go more far afield on the top 600 vertical feet or so, but once you get further down to where the stream is depicted on the topo, you are on someone else's land (not sure if it's private [Betsy Pratt?] or USFS).

That pod, if ever built, would be a real game changer from so many perspectives. North would become a far more attractive option for a lot of people with a pod of 1200' vertical cruising runs that receive a lot of sun. Sort of like North Lynx but taller and with more skiing options. My guess is that they would have to convert the Inverness quad to a HSQ (ala Gate House) and would probably move the current lift up the hill to the new pod. You'd probably also have to move the location of the Inverness lift to the far skiers' left of Inverness trail b/c you'd have people coming down Brambles and whatever else to its left and you'd want the GMVS racing stuff to be on far skiers' right where the poma is now so there's no interference.

Then you consider the LT hiking options betweer Upper I and NRX, not to mention MRG (upper upper 20th anyone?), and it makes things extremely interesting. It would reduce the crowds on Cruiser, Which Way and Northstar and really spread out the action on the currently tall and skinny ME. That said, I suspect that real estate and, to a lesser extent, snowmaking upgrades are far higher on the priority list. You would need snowmaking on those trails due to their exposure (ESE) and the types of skiers you hope to attract (the groomer crowd). So when you consider the costs of the new HSQ, the trail work, re-locating the I lift, and the addition of snowmaking (if that's even possible - I read that ME is capped right now), you're looking at an investment of at least $6-7MM.

If cat skiing up there is a prelude to the full monty, that's exciting, though I agree with Hardbooter that it will likely be a few years before we see anything tangible on that front even if permitting is in place.

smootharc
10-08-2008, 01:59 PM
Is the aspect that different from Castlerock pod (I dub thee....cPod) ? I thought it would be similar, but I thought North was up because the maps in school had Canada on top, Mexico on the bottom.

Thought they could leave it natural snow, minimally groomed. Just my .02.

ski_resort_observer
10-08-2008, 02:05 PM
None of Mt Ellen is in the GMNF, it's all privately owned although the ridgeline is managed by the Long Trail folks with some government oversight due to the discovery of a little bird in the mid-90's.

Smooth - you have a call from a lawyer from Apple regarding the ipod thing.... :wink: :lol: See ya this weekend!

BMM - hope your not skipping classes to keep up with your new site and updating the Sugarbush history site. :wink:

Hardbooter
10-08-2008, 02:23 PM
I'm not interested in snowmaking or even trails. We already have tons of trails. That area is very sunny so the snow conditions would be crappy thin and scraped out in the open (like north lynx.) I'd like to see exterm woods extended with a few traverses coming from the other side, a large gladed area and an access road for a snow cat or hiking. Maybe later SB could add a surface lift. It's cheap and easy and people would come from all over the east coast to ski it.

Keep in mind that I'm a snowboarder advocating for a surface lift. They are cheap and windproof and they only suck for the first 50 times that you ride them. From then on they rock. BTW, if you've never tried a detachable high speed poma, it's a trip. It will literally yank you off your feet when the pole grabs the wire. It usually takes a few face plants (for skiers and boarders) before you get the hang of it. It also moves you up the mountain at about the same clip that you are used to going down the mountain.

The only weakness with this plan is that the wind could shut down inverness and GMX and then you couldn't get to the poma above it (without hiking). Well, I guess the other weakness might be that various owners have been talking about developing that terrain since the seventies and no one has ever pulled it off. I suspect that there are a lot of obstacles beyond the basic permitting but I've got my fingers crossed.

Tin Woodsman
10-08-2008, 02:40 PM
Is the aspect that different from Castlerock pod (I dub thee....cPod) ? I thought it would be similar, but I thought North was up because the maps in school had Canada on top, Mexico on the bottom.

Thought they could leave it natural snow, minimally groomed. Just my .02.

While that would be ideal from my perspective, I don't think it would work if SB ever got around to it. For one thing, the Upper I-pod wouldn't face ESE as I had originally posted, but almost directly SE. This is more consistent with the aspect of North Lynx than it is with CR. More importantly from a business perspective, it's hard to imagine that SB would make such a significant investment solely to cater to a relatively small portion of the skiing demographic. The unfortunate reality is that most of the destination skiers who buy lift tickets at full price, drop $20/person on lunch at the lodge and buy real estate are your typical blue square cruisers. To the extent you are making a major investment in lift and terrain expansion, it would seem unwise to design the new terrain such that 80% of skiers can't handle it, or even if they could (it's not as steep as CR), it wouldn't be open that often b/c of no snowmaking. Just the trails and the lift alone would run you about $5MM, so to add snowmaking (another $1-2MM?) seems like a no-brainer.

Given Win's track record, I suspect you would end up with a best of both worlds approach. IOW, there would be 2-3 wider runs with snowmaking and a bit of character, but there would be complemented by another 2-4 runs and glades that are consistent with the SB heritage. There's quite a bit of room up there, and I'm sure they could include enough terrain to make everyone happy w/o making it look like the front face of Mt. Snow (i.e. all trail, no tree).

Hardbooter
10-08-2008, 03:14 PM
More importantly from a business perspective, it's hard to imagine that SB would make such a significant investment solely to cater to a relatively small portion of the skiing demographic. The unfortunate reality is that most of the destination skiers who buy lift tickets at full price, drop $20/person on lunch at the lodge and buy real estate are your typical blue square cruisers. To the extent you are making a major investment in lift and terrain expansion, it would seem unwise to design the new terrain such that 80% of skiers can't handle it, or even if they could (it's not as steep as CR), it wouldn't be open that often b/c of no snowmaking. Just the trails and the lift alone would run you about $5MM, so to add snowmaking (another $1-2MM?) seems like a no-brainer.

I basically agree with you except that it's extremely unlikely that SB could ever spend X millions on new terrain any time soon. There are a lot of obstacles to cutting new ski trails in the east. That's why there has been very very little expansion of any ski areas in the east (not to mention issues with the current economic environment.) However sugarbush has been successful at adding glades.

Keep in mind that Eden is extremely popular. It's gladed, has no snowmaking and skies well almost the whole season even though it's very low on the mountain. I think that if sugarbush was to cut a couple of Eden style glades as well as some more difficult glades it would work very well and it's super cheap. Also tree skiing is the fastest growing part of the sport and Sugarbush is becoming recognized as the best tree skiing in the east. Sugarbush is marketing itself as an adventure destination and this fits that mold. Maybe in 10-20 years we could turn some of the glades into trails but I'd can't see it happening any time soon.

BTW, does anyone remember what was the last non-gladed trail that sugarbush added? It must have been in the 70's or did ASC add some?

Tin Woodsman
10-08-2008, 03:37 PM
More importantly from a business perspective, it's hard to imagine that SB would make such a significant investment solely to cater to a relatively small portion of the skiing demographic. The unfortunate reality is that most of the destination skiers who buy lift tickets at full price, drop $20/person on lunch at the lodge and buy real estate are your typical blue square cruisers. To the extent you are making a major investment in lift and terrain expansion, it would seem unwise to design the new terrain such that 80% of skiers can't handle it, or even if they could (it's not as steep as CR), it wouldn't be open that often b/c of no snowmaking. Just the trails and the lift alone would run you about $5MM, so to add snowmaking (another $1-2MM?) seems like a no-brainer.

I basically agree with you except that it's extremely unlikely that SB could ever spend X millions on new terrain any time soon. There are a lot of obstacles to cutting new ski trails in the east. That's why there has been very very little expansion of any ski areas in the east (not to mention issues with the current economic environment.) However sugarbush has been successful at adding glades.
I think I mentioned initially that it's extremely unlikely that they would do this, at least in the short to medium term. Full build-out of the LP Village, an extensive rehab of the snowmaking system (i.e. ripping out the lousy ASC pipe, connecting North and South, improving efficiency) and then a makeover for SHARC are probably far higher on the agenda. So all of this is just a bunch of idle daydreaming for 5-10 years, and that's w/o considering the state of the economy.



Keep in mind that Eden is extremely popular. It's gladed, has no snowmaking and skies well almost the whole season even though it's very low on the mountain. I think that if sugarbush was to cut a couple of Eden style glades as well as some more difficult glades it would work very well and it's super cheap. Also tree skiing is the fastest growing part of the sport and Sugarbush is becoming recognized as the best tree skiing in the east. Sugarbush is marketing itself as an adventure destination and this fits that mold. Maybe in 10-20 years we could turn some of the glades into trails but I'd can't see it happening any time soon.
Tree skiing may be growing very fast, but from a very small base. It is certainly an attraction, but I'd be surprised if there was a major expansion catering solely to that demographic in a world in which SB already has a tremendous amount of gladed terrain. That sort of thing worked (to the extent it was really implemented) with recent terrain expansions at Bretton Woods and Okemo b/c they needed a harder edge to complement the meh terrain elsewhere. As I mentioned, I think a balanced approach with a little for each group would be the likeliest result.

As for Eden, it's low on the mountain but also faces due north and gets some blow in from the snowmaking on either side of it. Also, FWIW, I don't think that Eden is necessarily a model for responsible glade run management from a pure forestry perspective. It's super clean and doesn't have much in the way of tree islands featuring younger growth. In the absence of a policy change by SB mgmt, it's going to be a wide open slope in 20-30 years when those trees get older and die at the same time. Any runs in Upper iPod would face SE and would hopefully be cut with a mind towards future generations (i.e. not as wide open).



BTW, does anyone remember what was the last non-gladed trail that sugarbush added? It must have been in the 70's or did ASC add some?

If you're talking about the last trail that was actually cut and not just added to the map, my guess would be Ripcord and Birdland/Lower Birdland when they took the ganjala out.

Plowboy
10-08-2008, 03:47 PM
BTW, does anyone remember what was the last non-gladed trail that sugarbush added? It must have been in the 70's or did ASC add some?

My guess is upper and lower birdland about 83' or 84', but lower birdland was not open as a trail untill sometime later. Or, the trail under the North Lynx chair.


Tin, Ripcord was cut when the Gondoobie was still in. Birdland and lower birdland were cut the year after and the Bravo and Heaven's Gate chairs were put in.

Hardbooter
10-08-2008, 03:53 PM
I guess ASC also added Bravo and Encore at north when they reworked the chairs there. Of course the ASC marketing department cut new trails every fall but I'm interested in stuff that I can actually ski.

Plowboy
10-08-2008, 03:58 PM
I guess ASC also added Bravo and Encore at north when they reworked the chairs there. Of course the ASC marketing department cut new trails every fall but I'm interested in stuff that I can actually ski.

No, Bravo and Encore were cut in 80' or 81' for the Northridge Triple.

Tin Woodsman
10-08-2008, 04:02 PM
BTW, does anyone remember what was the last non-gladed trail that sugarbush added? It must have been in the 70's or did ASC add some?

My guess is upper and lower birdland about 83' or 84', but lower birdland was not open as a trail untill sometime later. Or, the trail under the North Lynx chair.
was
Tin, Ripcord was cut when the Gondoobie was still in. Birdland and lower birdland were cut the year after and the Bravo and Heaven's Gate chairs were put in.

Good stuff. You learn something new every day.

Now that I think about it (again), the last actual trail to be added that increased skiable terrain must have been Morning Star when they converted NL from a poma to the old Bravo triple in 96(?). Not sure if they cut any trees to do so.

flakeydog
10-08-2008, 04:36 PM
I guess ASC also added Bravo and Encore at north when they reworked the chairs there. Of course the ASC marketing department cut new trails every fall but I'm interested in stuff that I can actually ski.


And who can forget classics like Zip, Spread Eagle, Panorama and Coffee Run!

I won't even start on the trees that were cut out of the transitions on tumbler.....

Lostone
10-08-2008, 04:36 PM
Northridge was never a triple. It was an old, slow yellow chair double. And Encore and Bravo were both open, under it.

Plowboy
10-08-2008, 06:12 PM
Northridge was never a triple. It was an old, slow yellow chair double. And Encore and Bravo were both open, under it.

My bad, it was a double, slow but not that old(1980 or 81).

ski_resort_observer
10-08-2008, 06:14 PM
Zip is no more, RIP little Zip....:lol: More than cutting new trails ASC did the upper,lower and other versions of the same trail name game. We went to sleep with 77 trails and woke up with 112. It is a very environmental way to add trails, not a single tree was harmed...:lol:

Ever since then I have always respected Stowe cause they did not do this. I guess the Stowe marketing couldn't stand it any longer and did the same thing last year or the year before. They went went from a listed 47 trails to well over 100.

Strat
10-08-2008, 10:14 PM
Why don't you check SugarbushHistory.com for trail changes? 8)

Birdland is the answer... Sugar Bravo, as it was called, went in for the 84-85 season, a year after the North Ridge with Encore and Bravo, which happened in the summer of 83 (at least according to our trail map set).

Plowboy
10-09-2008, 07:04 AM
Why don't you check SugarbushHistory.com for trail changes? 8)

Birdland is the answer... Sugar Bravo, as it was called, went in for the 84-85 season, a year after the North Ridge with Encore and Bravo, which happened in the summer of 83 (at least according to our trail map set).

:?: Where did the name Sugar Bravo come from?

summitchallenger
10-09-2008, 07:19 AM
... an extensive rehab of the snowmaking system (i.e. ripping out the lousy ASC pipe, connecting North and South, improving efficiency)


So the pipe WAS laid between North and South? For some reason I thought that it was not....

Strat
10-09-2008, 08:06 AM
Why don't you check SugarbushHistory.com for trail changes? 8)

Birdland is the answer... Sugar Bravo, as it was called, went in for the 84-85 season, a year after the North Ridge with Encore and Bravo, which happened in the summer of 83 (at least according to our trail map set).

:?: Where did the name Sugar Bravo come from?

Hard to say really, it is a bit of an odd name... out of context it sounds no more ridiculous than Super Bravo though...

BushMogulMaster
10-09-2008, 10:40 AM
... an extensive rehab of the snowmaking system (i.e. ripping out the lousy ASC pipe, connecting North and South, improving efficiency)


So the pipe WAS laid between North and South? For some reason I thought that it was not....

No, Tin was saying that the connection is something that needs to be done.

Lostone
10-09-2008, 10:44 AM
Super Bravo is the high speed detachable replacement for the Sugar Bravo triple. (Now North Lynx)

Sugar...? Sugarbush.

Bravo? "Bravo! We don't have to stand in the gondola line anymore!"? 8)

Plowboy
10-09-2008, 01:45 PM
... an extensive rehab of the snowmaking system (i.e. ripping out the lousy ASC pipe, connecting North and South, improving efficiency)


So the pipe WAS laid between North and South? For some reason I thought that it was not....

No, Tin was saying that the connection is something that needs to be done.

I think the pipe was going to be an air line, as their permit for the pond off the Mad River would not allow the water to be pumped over to ME.

Plowboy
10-09-2008, 01:47 PM
Super Bravo is the high speed detachable replacement for the Sugar Bravo triple. (Now North Lynx)

Sugar...? Sugarbush.

Bravo? "Bravo! We don't have to stand in the gondola line anymore!"? 8)


Sugar Bravo was the name of Roy Cohen's race horse. Why they named the horse Sugar Bravo, I don't know.

Strat
10-09-2008, 09:04 PM
Super Bravo is the high speed detachable replacement for the Sugar Bravo triple. (Now North Lynx)

Sugar...? Sugarbush.

Bravo? "Bravo! We don't have to stand in the gondola line anymore!"? 8)


Sugar Bravo was the name of Roy Cohen's race horse. Why they named the horse Sugar Bravo, I don't know.

That's a good piece of info! What else do you know (a bit of a broad question, haha)... you could be a very helpful resource to the new update of SugarbushHistory.com

ski_resort_observer
10-09-2008, 09:36 PM
Super Bravo is the high speed detachable replacement for the Sugar Bravo triple. (Now North Lynx)

Sugar...? Sugarbush.

Bravo? "Bravo! We don't have to stand in the gondola line anymore!"? 8)


Sugar Bravo was the name of Roy Cohen's race horse. Why they named the horse Sugar Bravo, I don't know.

That's a good piece of info! What else do you know (a bit of a broad question, haha)... you could be a very helpful resource to the new update of SugarbushHistory.com

Yeah Plow - let's stick some wires in ya and see what they can upload :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tin Woodsman
10-09-2008, 10:46 PM
... an extensive rehab of the snowmaking system (i.e. ripping out the lousy ASC pipe, connecting North and South, improving efficiency)


So the pipe WAS laid between North and South? For some reason I thought that it was not....

Wellll, it does get pretty quiet out there if you're off the beaten path, so I'm sure that some pipe has been laid between North and South. Just not any for air or water. :twisted: :twisted:

BMM has it right. What I originally wrote was short hand for ripping out the lousy ASC pipe (and who knows whatever else behind the scenes) within the existing system and then building a new compressed air pipe from South to North. If what Plowboy said re: water restrictions is true, I wonder if there can be a material increase in snowmaking capacity at North beyond tweaking the current footprint.

Hawk
10-10-2008, 07:53 AM
What makes the pipe that ASC installed lousy? The 1/4" steel pipe that ASC installed is the same 1/4" steel pipe they use now. I think the issues that we are faced with now are related to the aging system in general.

Also I think that this talk about connecting the two mountains with piping was discussed by ASC and then SV and deemed not cost effective. The amount of cubic air you would have to generate or water that you would have to pump to fill the pipes going between the areas is enormous.

It was my understanding that 2 separate systems were and are the only real option. What we need are upgrades! Bigger pumps, more compressors, larger retaining ponds and increased water rights. The first three are just cash outlays. The last one is government and that is always the big problem.

Tin Woodsman
10-10-2008, 03:35 PM
What makes the pipe that ASC installed lousy? The 1/4" steel pipe that ASC installed is the same 1/4" steel pipe they use now. I think the issues that we are faced with now are related to the aging system in general.
That's akin to asking what the difference is between a Ferrari and a minivan since they're both vehicles you use to get from Point A to Point B. Not all steel piping for snowmaking, and the installation therein, is the same. Since most of the money went in during the mid-90s, we're not really talking about an aging system as these things go.



Also I think that this talk about connecting the two mountains with piping was discussed by ASC and then SV and deemed not cost effective. The amount of cubic air you would have to generate or water that you would have to pump to fill the pipes going between the areas is enormous.

It was my understanding that 2 separate systems were and are the only real option.
I hadn't heard/seen this. Last I saw was something from either Win or maybe BMM that talked about the limitations in place at North and that connecting the systems may be necessary to remedy it. But tht was a while ago and I coul dbe "misremembering". If it's off the table, then upgrades are certainly needed.

BushMogulMaster
10-10-2008, 03:56 PM
What makes the pipe that ASC installed lousy? The 1/4" steel pipe that ASC installed is the same 1/4" steel pipe they use now. I think the issues that we are faced with now are related to the aging system in general.
That's akin to asking what the difference is between a Ferrari and a minivan since they're both vehicles you use to get from Point A to Point B. Not all steel piping for snowmaking, and the installation therein, is the same. Since most of the money went in during the mid-90s, we're not really talking about an aging system as these things go.



Also I think that this talk about connecting the two mountains with piping was discussed by ASC and then SV and deemed not cost effective. The amount of cubic air you would have to generate or water that you would have to pump to fill the pipes going between the areas is enormous.

It was my understanding that 2 separate systems were and are the only real option.
I hadn't heard/seen this. Last I saw was something from either Win or maybe BMM that talked about the limitations in place at North and that connecting the systems may be necessary to remedy it. But tht was a while ago and I coul dbe "misremembering". If it's off the table, then upgrades are certainly needed.

Mt. Ellen has a decent capacity by itself. In fact, prior to ASC's enhancements, ME's snowmaking system was quite a bit better than LP's. However, the feed lines to ME's pumps are in fact aging, and will need some TLC if the system were to be expanded in the future. ME can pump enough out of its retention pond alone to run a trail without issue, and most of that infrastructure is okay.

Consider, also, that ME is opening later and closing earlier. Therefore, the snowmaking demand is substantially less than in the past. In a good snow year, very very little snow would have to be made. Only main thoroughfares and high-wear areas would need snowmaking. In a bad snow year, you still only have to make enough snow to last for the 3 1/2 month season.

If Win ever decides to make a significant investment in snowmaking in the future, it would be illogical not to consider ductile iron piping. More up-front investment, but lasts more than 400% long and is 10000000000X easier to install. No electrolysis, and nice easy couplings (no welding) mean better pipe, easier maintenance, longer lifespan. It's a no-brainer if you can come up with the initial capital.

Tin Woodsman
10-10-2008, 04:41 PM
Mt. Ellen has a decent capacity by itself. In fact, prior to ASC's enhancements, ME's snowmaking system was quite a bit better than LP's. However, the feed lines to ME's pumps are in fact aging, and will need some TLC if the system were to be expanded in the future. ME can pump enough out of its retention pond alone to run a trail without issue, and most of that infrastructure is okay.
Consider, also, that ME is opening later and closing earlier. Therefore, the snowmaking demand is substantially less than in the past. In a good snow year, very very little snow would have to be made. Only main thoroughfares and high-wear areas would need snowmaking. In a bad snow year, you still only have to make enough snow to last for the 3 1/2 month season.

If Win ever decides to make a significant investment in snowmaking in the future, it would be illogical not to consider ductile iron piping. More up-front investment, but lasts more than 400% long and is 10000000000X easier to install. No electrolysis, and nice easy couplings (no welding) mean better pipe, easier maintenance, longer lifespan. It's a no-brainer if you can come up with the initial capital.
Interesting stuff. With respect to the portion I bolded above, can you elaborate? What you've written doesn't sound impressive to me. I'm mainly thinking about the ability to recover from thaw/freeze cycles where you need to be able to light it up en masse when the front comes through and temps turn favorable. This is an area where SB seems lacking. If LP is going to be the early/late season hill, then a robust system to build base depths and rapidly increase trail counts is what's needed. Is that what's there? Anecdotally, SB seems to open terrain noticeably more slowly than their key competitors. What are the bottlenecks, aside from money?

BushMogulMaster
10-10-2008, 05:41 PM
Interesting stuff. With respect to the portion I bolded above, can you elaborate? What you've written doesn't sound impressive to me. I'm mainly thinking about the ability to recover from thaw/freeze cycles where you need to be able to light it up en masse when the front comes through and temps turn favorable. This is an area where SB seems lacking. If LP is going to be the early/late season hill, then a robust system to build base depths and rapidly increase trail counts is what's needed. Is that what's there? Anecdotally, SB seems to open terrain noticeably more slowly than their key competitors. What are the bottlenecks, aside from money?

Not sure exactly what you're looking for. Pumping capacity is limited by water flow and availability. What I said with respect to ME is that one pump station at the retention pond is probably capable of outputting enough water to run 15-20 guns, depending on temps and flow at the hydrants (I'm not sure of exact numbers, but that is based on flow into the pond and my best assumption of the output of that pumping station). There is additional infrastructure and pumping capacity, but it is pumping from a different source off the mountain. I guess I was just pointing out that, even with no other help, we can blow a trail or two just out of the retention pond. ME also has substantial control and air infrastructure. It's a decent system.

SB has a fair amount of snowmaking capacity as it sits, the system could just use some tweaking. Snowmaking can be a great asset, but it can also be a huge waste of money if managed improperly. I think the mountain has done a decent job of balancing it. There is plenty of snow where we need it, but we don't go and blow hundred dollar bills out the nozzles when it is unnecessary.

ski_resort_observer
10-10-2008, 08:59 PM
Well, the new cat is parked just behind the the granite statue guy for all to see. It sure looks purty and hope you guys are up this weekend so you can check it out and kick the tires...I mean tread. Should be on the website soon if you can't make it. Lostone said he took like 500 pictures of it but........ :wink:

Lostone
10-10-2008, 09:13 PM
Knock knock the door shall be opened.
Ask ask and ye shall receive.

http://forums.skimrv.com/albums/Assorted_Pix/tIMG_2403.jpg


http://forums.skimrv.com/albums/Assorted_Pix/tIMG_2406c_a.jpg


http://forums.skimrv.com/albums/Assorted_Pix/tIMG_2402c_a.jpg


Funny... I don't remember saying I got 500 pix of them tho... :wink:

Sail or Ski
10-11-2008, 07:57 PM
Look at the teeth on that tread.............Nice .....

For a lostone you sure do get around.

Lostone
10-11-2008, 09:19 PM
I get around because . . . I'm lost? :roll: :wink:

ski_resort_observer
10-20-2008, 11:35 AM
I think the inside of the Bush's new "Cabin Cat" is just as amazing as the outside. For those who haven't been up yet to check it out here is a pic of the inside. It's Sandy's shot and he gave me permission to post it in here, sorry for the crappy scan.

http://forums.skimrv.com/albums/album33/cabincat.jpg

madhavok
10-20-2008, 01:18 PM
I think the inside of the Bush's new "Cabin Cat" is just as amazing as the outside. For those who haven't been up yet to check it out here is a pic of the inside. It's Sandy's shot and he gave me permission to post it in here, sorry for the crappy scan.

http://forums.skimrv.com/albums/album33/cabincat.jpg

Better version of the picture right on Sugarbush.com

http://www.sugarbush.com/vermont-skiing-snowboarding/groomer-rides

ahm
10-20-2008, 01:53 PM
Wonder how many dawn patrol poachers will hit the terrain before the kitty every gets to the top............only time will tell.

ski_resort_observer
10-20-2008, 02:07 PM
I think the inside of the Bush's new "Cabin Cat" is just as amazing as the outside. For those who haven't been up yet to check it out here is a pic of the inside. It's Sandy's shot and he gave me permission to post it in here, sorry for the crappy scan.

http://forums.skimrv.com/albums/album33/cabincat.jpg

Better version of the picture right on Sugarbush.com

http://www.sugarbush.com/vermont-skiing-snowboarding/groomer-rides

Thanks...much better version....wasn't on the site yesterday when I checked or I missed it.

gone.skiing
10-21-2008, 01:49 PM
Is there a one way option for $15?

bullwheel12
10-22-2008, 11:20 AM
i'm tired of sugarbush being turned into an elite retirement community. Yeah, lets clear some trees and make the woods easier to ski...oh and lets make easy accessible side country even more easily accessible...(if you have money that is)!!! If you can't get into slidebrook using your own two feet then you shouldn't be there. It's that simple.

Hawk
10-22-2008, 11:53 AM
If you can't get into slidebrook using your own two feet then you shouldn't be there. It's that simple.

Yup, that about sums it up. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it, the mountain has a vested interest in "adventure skiing". I'm sorry dude but the Joeys are here to stay. :wink:

Lostone
10-22-2008, 12:51 PM
Yeah, lets clear some trees and make the woods easier to ski...

For the record, I think most of the tree cutting is, and has always been done by other than "retirement community", people. :?





If you can't get into slidebrook using your own two feet then you shouldn't be there. It's that simple.

So you're not using that lift thing, then? :roll:


Not saying that there is no validity in what you are saying, but pointing out that we all cut some corners, now and then. And some who cut some of those corners . . . are not those who you think they are.

bullwheel12
10-22-2008, 02:15 PM
Yo dude with the fanny pack: duh most of us use lifts to get up there. But when it comes to pursuing more difficult terrain such as Slidebrook, a little extra effort is all that is required. No 2.000 vertical ft. climb necessary. All I'm saying is why put in two lifts to get to the top of the same place. Oh and I have the same feeling about "sugar sherpas" and grooming runs on Castlerock... if you can't carry your own gear and you can't get down cr...

gone.skiing
10-22-2008, 02:15 PM
Cat is cool, but I am waiting for the helicopter rides. We could buzz bullwheel on the way up.

Bullwheel, if you are going to be hardcore, pick something other than a patch of woods that 6 year old kids are skiing.

bullwheel12
10-22-2008, 02:20 PM
not trying to be hardcore...there is a reason why there is no cat skiing in the east. Cuz its the east.

gone.skiing
10-22-2008, 02:21 PM
Yo dude with the fanny pack: duh most of us use lifts to get up there. But when it comes to pursuing more difficult terrain such as Slidebrook, a little extra effort is all that is required. No 2.000 vertical ft. climb necessary. All I'm saying is why put in two lifts to get to the top of the same place. Oh and I have the same feeling about "sugar sherpas" and grooming runs on Castlerock... if you can't carry your own gear and you can't get down cr...

Quite complaining, it is a nice gesture to let people who would not normally ski CR get up there and check it out. Rumble and Lift Line are never groomed. Stick to those, just be careful not to get run over by a bunch of blazers.

bullwheel12
10-22-2008, 02:27 PM
i just love this "sugarbush-suck-up" forum. Yah lets just groom the whole mountain and hold everyones hand as the descend.

HowieT2
10-22-2008, 02:52 PM
i just love this "sugarbush-suck-up" forum. Yah lets just groom the whole mountain and hold everyones hand as the descend.

Forgive me but I'm a little confused. You are complaining that SB is offering a cat to access terrain that is lift accessed because those who are taking the cat aren't earning their turns???? Do you not know how to take a lift into slidebrook and so you hike it? Doesn't make much sense to me but what do I know.

and as for your comment about the sugar sherpas- while I don't personally avail myself of their help, I do appreciate them helping my wife when she is shlepping her stuff and the kids stuff up or down the stairs

Hawk
10-22-2008, 03:14 PM
Wow, this deteriorated fast... From what win was saying and from other sources the slidebrook tour will not be the main use. I also doubt that most people will want to or ever have a chance to ride in this thing. The Claybrookers and the inner circle people will get first dibs and it will be costly. All I know is that when the passes went up $ 100, the majority of people on this board lost it. How much extra do you think they will pay for a cat ride? You do notice that no costs have been mentioned. If this were an open thing they would have posted how to book and prices by now, don't you think?

Tin Woodsman
10-22-2008, 03:39 PM
i just love this "sugarbush-suck-up" forum. Yah lets just groom the whole mountain and hold everyones hand as the descend.

Glad you're here to keep us straight. Lord knows that notorious suck ups like me never complain about anything. Thanks for catching on to the undercurrent here that all trails must be groomed. I'm glad you had the courage to come out and fight against that trend, b/c it's clearly been a goal everyone is angling towards.

Hardbooter
10-22-2008, 03:47 PM
I think of this thing as income redistribution. Very rich people can pay stupid amounts of money to get a ride up with Egan in a snow cat. That is great. That will help win keep the pass prices low enough for the rest of us. The sherpas are great too. I don't need them but it keeps people happy. Those happy customers keep Sugarbush in business so I can go ski powder stashes. Those people don't ski where I ski and they don't get in my way and they keep the mountain in business.

Yard Sale
10-22-2008, 03:48 PM
i just love this "sugarbush-suck-up" forum. Yah lets just groom the whole mountain and hold everyones hand as the descend.

I'm parking on 100 from now on. Driving up the access road is for old ladies.

gone.skiing
10-22-2008, 04:10 PM
i just love this "sugarbush-suck-up" forum. Yah lets just groom the whole mountain and hold everyones hand as the descend.

Bwwaaahaaaa!!! Time to graduate from Middle Earth to Lift line and Rumble. I am sure Egan will be happy to hold your hand on the descend, you may have to think about it though.

ski_resort_observer
10-22-2008, 05:13 PM
I'm parking on 100 from now on. Driving up the access road is for old ladies.



:lol: :lol: wicked funny YS

Fourwide
10-23-2008, 08:00 AM
"I'm parking on 100 from now on. Driving up the access road is for old ladies."

Yes, that was pretty funny--best line of the '08-'09 season, to date!

win
10-23-2008, 07:07 PM
5512 views. What more could I ask for!

If all these views brought 7 friends this winter , I would buy all of you a beer!

Snow next week!

boze
10-23-2008, 11:49 PM
Win I doubt any here need further incentive to bring true friends to the 'bush. You & your team have done great things.
But if you'd like to procure a libation, my palette is more attuned these days to a dusky Malbec or some gnarly old Shiraz.
Still, a Long Trail always seems to taste really great. Can't wait to enjoy a glass of anything by the fire pit irrespective or who's buying.

smootharc
10-24-2008, 08:22 AM
not trying to be hardcore...there is a reason why there is no cat skiing in the east. Cuz its the east.

....watching the Meathead's films....

http://www.catskiing.net/

I know it's Canada, but it's East and it's Cat...

skituner8
11-17-2008, 10:55 AM
whats wrong with offering a different option to skiers and riders? moving up always!!

Dawn Patrol
11-17-2008, 11:32 AM
How much will cat skiing cost on opening day?? :P :lol:

SKIQUATTRO
11-20-2008, 12:15 PM
any info on the cat/dinner package?? heading up in Feb with the wife...

win
11-20-2008, 03:37 PM
The first public dinner is December 27th and the cost per person will be $125. We are starting to take reservations! Dinner will be on Saturdays and many Holiday nights. We are also doing private parties upon request. We will have info up on the web soon.

I am doing a first trial run on December 19th in honor of Sigi Grottendorfer and have invited a few to dine with him.

mattlucas
11-21-2008, 11:10 AM
I agree with what everyone has said here, it's not something I personally will use but I'm excited to know that there will be secret cabal dinners happening up on the mountain from time to time. Is the exec chef of Allan's going to be whoever is running Timbers with a similar menu?

The real question about the Cat is, can we get this thing to take us up HG when it's on wind hold?

SKIQUATTRO
11-21-2008, 01:29 PM
Thanks Win,,,,my wife and I will be up Feb 6/7/8 and I'd love to do that Sat night the 7th......I'll keep an eye on the website...thanks again!

win
11-21-2008, 03:02 PM
We will also use it for windhold when possible.

Yard Sale
11-21-2008, 03:09 PM
Out west we've gone to dinner up high via a similar passenger cat, but also in an open sled towed behind a cat. The sled held a dozen or 20 people and every one was covered under heavy blankets. This may be a cheaper alternative to increase capacity, if demand for this cat thing (dining/windhold etc.) should warrant.

Dawn Patrol
11-21-2008, 03:09 PM
We will also use it for windhold when possible.

Are you going to charge extra to get up to terrain on windhold? Or will a lift ticket get you on the cat?

Hawk
11-21-2008, 03:52 PM
Are you kidding. Of course it's going to cost you. But the real question is will it be open to the public or just the chosen few?

Tin Woodsman
11-21-2008, 06:34 PM
We will also use it for windhold when possible.

I can see it now. Taking full advantage of supply/demand dynamics on a typical windy day after a big storm, Win will be standing astride the bulging liftline of Bravo, auctioning off seats for a single ride on the cat up to HG. You'd pay for that sucker with two trips. Make sure you bring one of those wireless credit card swiper thingies! :twisted: :twisted:

smootharc
12-15-2008, 02:32 PM
I think it was announced Saturday night, but I was busy listening to disco and having flashbacks.

And is there a place on the SB website providing all the latest cat programs / pricing ?

summitchallenger
12-15-2008, 03:02 PM
I've heard that it is called the Powder Cat, but some locals are calling it the "Powder P*ssy."

How much is it for a cat ride and dinner at Allyn's? Are they doing it for this weekend?

Tin Woodsman
12-15-2008, 03:51 PM
I've heard that it is called the Powder Cat, but some locals are calling it the "Powder P*ssy."

How much is it for a cat ride and dinner at Allyn's? Are they doing it for this weekend?

$125 pre fixe/person for the cat ride and dinner at Allyn's. Cat leaves at 6:15 or so and returns around 8:30. I might be a little off on the timing.

smootharc
12-18-2008, 01:55 PM
http://www.sugarbush.com/vermont-skiing-snowboarding/groomer-rides#april