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Mt St Pipier
03-25-2008, 01:12 PM
Taking from the Gatehouse thread, it seems likely GSL won't go forward without some more sales at Claybrook. Is there anything we can do to help move those last remaining units? I know Sugarbush is limited in what they can say about occupancy rates, as they are not an investment advisor. Is there anywhere to post to ask owners what their own experience has been?

I've been thinking about taking down a unit and rent it out in order to get the 'perks'. My spreadsheets indicate it's certainly a money loser in the early years. As Win has said, the property taxes are brutal, but I'm not holding my breath for those to go down. The fees are very high too, which makes sense considering you've got a lot of staff, heated pools, etc. I'd be interested to see what the existing owners think of the membership at the Health Club. Probably not cheap, and hardly used. If so, a discounted daily fee arrangement would make more sense.

Anyway, if the annual loss is something that I can view as a cost to get valet parking for the wife, ski and boot storage for the kids, etc, maybe it's worth my while. Kind of like joining a members club (which I would certainly do if one was built). But I have no way to get comfortable that my assumptions are valid. Perhaps if there was an information exchange by owners who rent out their units, it would help people like me pull the trigger, which helps Win start the next phase, which helps free up some space at CastleRock pub, which means I get to drink more beer. :mrgreen:

jwt
03-26-2008, 08:21 AM
MSP,

Generally a break-even point on these projects are 50-60% sold, and as others have alluded, real money in the last 15-20%.
While the market seems to have slowed down overall, and the sentiment is low for forward price appreciation in the short term, I think it can be a good investment if it pays most or all of the operating costs back with rental program. Outside of the 20-30% you'll now need, it can most likely be break-even rented 15-20 weeks - peak ones of course.

It has a few things going for it. It is small -assuming more renters interested than units available. Location, and it's brandy new.

It is not a Four Seaons experience, and neither is the price. I don't think folks come here for that - they go to Stowe or Strap-on for that. And skiing is not the #1 reason for a lot of them. It is for those of us in Mad River.
I have a brother-in-law in the tennis business, who owned at Top-Notch, stopped skiing about 3-4 years ago, purchased a place pre-construct for $500K, sold in '04 for $700K. He just bought a place for rental at the new Spruce Peak lodge. . . .those are presold and second phase is under consideration. After intitial costs, he won't need to lay out cash flow even with 30-50% rental fees. . . . . $500-$1000 per night

Unless you are a serious skier, and even more importantly, your whole family is - if you got money - you go to those others.

I think SV understands their market well, did not go nuts with the fancy-schmancy, and have a different market than those others.

Tha fact is those who buy at those highest end places are under much less pressure and are not affected by short term markets as the rest of the world. I have never seen so many cranes at Vail or so much construction at Breckenridge in the 20 odd years I have been going out West. Lots of Europeans getting great buys for their Euro is my guess. Might have some of that at Stowe too? When American RE is cheap ( relative) foreigners buy.
Here at da 'Bush , we are more concerned with the skiing experience, the lack of traffic, lights, and socializing with families/friends. And hey, you can always drive 25 miles north if you want all that other stuff. . . .and that's one reason they sell more in Stowe, regardless of the economy. That experience has a price.

Win referred to the fact that RE in the valley has not fallen as far as other areas, and a part of that is the ambience and part is the lack of housing.

We just have to have more people exposed to the place. Word of mouth is the most reliable marketing tool and also the slowest.

I have invited a bunch of folks to the place since '82 and a lot of them stayed here. Serious skiers all. Need more of them- we got the room.

gdriscoll
04-12-2008, 09:43 AM
Went to SB for a week every year growing up. Third season back with my own family. Have skied everywhere East and West and keep coming back to SB.

Jumped on the CB band wagon during pre-construction, unfortunately, full or fractional ownership, for me, is difficult to cost justify. Considering work and school age children, I don't have enough time (13 weeks per year). Plus I am not convinced that the rental program will defray the maintenance fees and RE taxes. Some hard numbers re rental income should be available now that CB has been up and running for over a year. I do think (and hope) that CB economics are in SBs favor, as that will allow SB to be successful in the long run. Passing the construction cost on to others via fractional or full ownership is a great idea. (congrats to Win and crew)

I would however be very interested in a weekly time share option. Hopefully they will offer this option in phase 2 or with a portion of their unsold units at CB.