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shadyjay
03-15-2008, 03:28 PM
Prices and passes available, best rates are if purchased by 5/1/08... check out the link on sugarbush.com under tickets/passes for "season passes"

Found this mentioned under the Mt Ellen passes....
"Discount tickets available during "blackouts."
I'm assuming this means Lincoln Peak tix at Sugarcard rates... please please don't tell me holidays are blacked out for ME Plus passes....

I'm almost ready to break down and get the all-mtn pass, though I'll probably stick with the ME Plus.

Hawk
03-16-2008, 07:59 AM
What will be the cost of the add on for the Summer Pass for MTB, F-Golf and Z-line? Is there a discount for buying both at the same time?

Tin Woodsman
03-16-2008, 01:48 PM
What will be the cost of the add on for the Summer Pass for MTB, F-Golf and Z-line? Is there a discount for buying both at the same time?

That would be smart - encourage year-round patronage by those who are already comfortable with the region.

Regardless, these prices are too rich for my blood, coming up from NYC.

madhavok
03-16-2008, 04:08 PM
[quote=Hawk]

Regardless, these prices are too rich for my blood, coming up from NYC.

Ditto

HowieT2
03-16-2008, 06:26 PM
What will be the cost of the add on for the Summer Pass for MTB, F-Golf and Z-line? Is there a discount for buying both at the same time?

That would be smart - encourage year-round patronage by those who are already comfortable with the region.

Regardless, these prices are too rich for my blood, coming up from NYC.

I did it for the first time this season and it was great. I've skied about 35 days so the pass sure was worth it. And my wife has gone from a reluctant, "I'll ski a few runs if it's nice out" kind of skier to a real enthusiast. Yesterday I took her for her first runs on middle earth and slidebrook. Having a wife who is psyched to drive up is more than worth the cost of the season pass.

Footnote. SB was really kind to us in purchasing my wife's pass. Without getting into details, they went "above and beyond". They will realize the dividends for years to come, as she is hooked.

FWIW-last year there was no tie in with the MTB passes.

Lostone
03-16-2008, 07:53 PM
I had no interest in the biking, so didn't really pay attention, but there was definitely a discount on the summer pass with an add-on of your winter 07-08 pass.

Hawk
03-17-2008, 06:28 AM
I had no interest in the biking, so didn't really pay attention, but there was definitely a discount on the summer pass with an add-on of your winter 07-08 pass.

You may have not had interest in the biking but I know you wore the heck out of the disk golf part of the pass. Every time I was up biking I saw you. :wink:

summitchallenger
03-17-2008, 07:37 AM
Any word what the College Pass rate will be and if they will be doing the "College Plus One" deal?

Lostone
03-17-2008, 08:08 AM
You may have not had interest in the biking but I know you wore the heck out of the disk golf part of the pass. Every time I was up biking I saw you. :wink:

If you saw me on the upper course, I was most likely hiking and taking pix. (http://forums.skimrv.com/modules.php?set_albumName=Summer_Activities&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=2) :wink:

Almost all my playing was on the lower course. That said, I've had tons of people talking to me about the disc golf. And I've mentioned it to people as part of the "So what do you do, up here, in the summer?" answer, on the lifts. 8)

ski_resort_observer
03-17-2008, 05:13 PM
Any word what the College Pass rate will be and if they will be doing the "College Plus One" deal?

For any questions about season passes you can call 1-800-53-SUGAR(537-8427) and they can answer 95% of any question you might have. They can transfer you to the Season Pass office or you can call direct to the Season Pass/Ticket office in Gatehouse, 802-583-6533.

Hawk
03-17-2008, 06:51 PM
That's so funny. I open up the pics and there I am. :shock: Good work Lostone. Nice shot. :)

madhavok
03-17-2008, 08:14 PM
College pass, and college pass +1 are BS in my opinion. Nice to see its so important for the young punks to get a practically free season passes, meanwhile young workers, couples & families get hung out to dry.

BushMogulMaster
03-17-2008, 08:47 PM
College pass, and college pass +1 are BS in my opinion. Nice to see its so important for the young punks to get a practically free season passes, meanwhile young workers, couples & families get hung out to dry.

You've always got something to complain about, don't you?

As a college student, I'm always quite pleased to see discounted rates for students. I agree that it is very difficult for most folks to afford season passes, but a lot of college students can barely afford to go to school and eat, let alone go skiing.

As for me... I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually paid to go skiing :wink:

Gotta love being in and around the ski business from day one!

Lostone
03-17-2008, 09:06 PM
Hawk, was it on the first page it opened to? That would be funny, as it is the second page of the album. Most on the first page were as they were setting things up.

Glad you liked the shot. I took tons of them, and only posted pounds. :lol:

I was just wandering down, looking for good shots.



madhavok, the theory is you give college students (and for the first year after, in this case) a break on price, when they are living on nothing and when they have the higher level of disposable income, which is why they're going to college. they'll remember the fun they had, and return.

Not that great an idea to you, but I don't know of a ski area that doesn't, have the college pass program. If it is not a good idea, they're all fooled, together. The college +1 idea I haven't heard before, but still sounds like a good idea, too me.

As for families, there are breaks there, too. It plays along the same lines. Give them a break while they're struggling and they might remember it when they're (hopefully) beyond the struggle.

SKItheBOAT
03-17-2008, 09:27 PM
[quote=madhavok]

Gotta love being in and around the ski business from day one!

Good winter...couldn't agree more. Bad winter....couldn't be more stressed.

On to the college pass, why shouldn't they offer discounts?? Ask anyone who has ever been to college and you'll understand that college students are always poor!! They're in college to eventually become wealthy and spend their money with businesses that treated them well in the past....the college +1 is giving Sugarbush a definite edge in this category. Awesome job!

BushMogulMaster
03-17-2008, 11:36 PM
Good winter...couldn't agree more. Bad winter....couldn't be more stressed.

Bad winters are stressful... absolutely. But it's just one more dynamic of the industry, and one more challenge to conquer. I can have lots of fun as both a skier, and an industry professional, even in a bad season.


Lostone... I like your comments re: college passes.

Hawk
03-18-2008, 07:15 AM
Lostone, yes it was on the first page. That was a nice day of down hilling. I can't wait to see what's up their sleeves this year. :shock:

Back on Topic.........Here is a smattering of pass prices at comparable resorts. Forgive me if this was posted somewhere before:
Sunday River - $899 before 4/30/08
Stowe - $ 1,305 - 07 Price (Didn't see '08 )
Killington - $ 999 - 07 Price (Didn't see '08 )
Smuggs - $ 469 - 07 Price (Didn't see '08 )
Jay - $ 634 - 08 Price
Stratton - $ 849 - 08 Price
Okemo - $ 1,029 - 08 Price

I think we are in line taking into consideration what we have to offer. This is skiing after all. At some point you have to face the fact that it is a very expensive sport/obsession.
So Tin and Madhavok were would you go? You could pay less but what would you realy gain? :wink:

smootharc
03-18-2008, 08:58 AM
What will be the cost of the add on for the Summer Pass for MTB, F-Golf and Z-line? Is there a discount for buying both at the same time?

....be very aggressively priced. I think building on the energy of last summer's inaugural year for those activities is all about getting more happy, smiling faces on the hill....who then bring their friends and family.....who then tell their friends.....etc.

A good way to achieve this is enticing your core constituents to try it out. A good way to do that is.....aggressive summer activities pricing.

My .02

madhavok
03-18-2008, 09:04 AM
Yes, I have a gripe with the cost of season passes, and also how college students get the royal treatment. This goes for most ski resorts and I was not suggesting going else where, (unless Jay Peak magically moves closer to NYC).

Some college students are poor but some are not, yet they all are so important that most ski resorts feel the need to practically give away season passes to them. This means whether you like it or not, part of our ticket and season pass cost goes directly to subsidize the cost of their college season passes.

Meanwhile young workers / couples, struggling to pay back school loans & take on mortgages are obviously not important. Most of them don’t get a degree and instantly start making the “mad money”. It isn’t that easy in the real world.

HowieT2
03-18-2008, 11:16 AM
Yes, I have a gripe with the cost of season passes, and also how college students get the royal treatment. This goes for most ski resorts and I was not suggesting going else where, (unless Jay Peak magically moves closer to NYC).

Some college students are poor but some are not, yet they all are so important that most ski resorts feel the need to practically give away season passes to them. This means whether you like it or not, part of our ticket and season pass cost goes directly to subsidize the cost of their college season passes.

Meanwhile young workers / couples, struggling to pay back school loans & take on mortgages are obviously not important. Most of them don’t get a degree and instantly start making the “mad money”. It isn’t that easy in the real world.

Yeah and those damn 80+ year old skiers and their preferred parking spots. If they can ski they should walk from the back of the lot like the rest of us. :wink:

You need to chill

madhavok
03-18-2008, 11:42 AM
Howie -

I wouldn't complain about the 80+ preferred parking. Ever since Claybrook was built and the poor location for the valet parked cars walking up to the lifts at Sugarbush is no joke. Besides I would never get to the mountain early enough for one of those spots anyway.

On the other hand me complaining that part of my costs are subsidizing the college season pass, when I can't afford to do so, is a legitimate gripe.

gone.skiing
03-18-2008, 12:42 PM
Howie -

I wouldn't complain about the 80+ preferred parking. Ever since Claybrook was built and the poor location for the valet parked cars walking up to the lifts at Sugarbush is no joke. Besides I would never get to the mountain early enough for one of those spots anyway.

On the other hand me complaining that part of my costs are subsidizing the college season pass, when I can't afford to do so, is a legitimate gripe.

If you did something productive instead of complaining on the internet, you would have made enough money to cover season pass for the rest of your life. Somehow I do not think that you are sleeping in the parking lot in your 15 year old honda civic on the weekends to afford skiing.

If you are planning to reproduce (oh horror ;-)) your kids will benefit from this policy in a few years.

Sugaree
03-18-2008, 12:59 PM
To say that Sugarbush does not give breaks to young families is ridiculous by the way:

1) 6 and under ski free

2) Buy an adult all mountain pass, and you get a youth pass for free.

Tin Woodsman
03-18-2008, 01:42 PM
I think we are in line taking into consideration what we have to offer. This is skiing after all. At some point you have to face the fact that it is a very expensive sport/obsession.
So Tin and Madhavok were would you go? You could pay less but what would you realy gain? :wink:

There are any number of discount programs available for day tickets. As a result, my break-even on the season pass is somewhere in the 20-25 day range, and that's a tough number to hit coming up from NYC with a young family. And this is for a guy with a house to use at his leisure - can't imagine how the calculation works for those w/o such a great asset at their disposal.

HowieT2
03-18-2008, 01:55 PM
I think we are in line taking into consideration what we have to offer. This is skiing after all. At some point you have to face the fact that it is a very expensive sport/obsession.
So Tin and Madhavok were would you go? You could pay less but what would you realy gain? :wink:

There are any number of discount programs available for day tickets. As a result, my break-even on the season pass is somewhere in the 20-25 day range, and that's a tough number to hit coming up from NYC with a young family. And this is for a guy with a house to use at his leisure - can't imagine how the calculation works for those w/o such a great asset at their disposal.

but that calculation changes when the kids hit 7.

Also, I skied a number of days this year because I had a pass and it didn't cost me anything incrementally.

madhavok
03-18-2008, 02:24 PM
To say that Sugarbush does not give breaks to young families is ridiculous by the way:

1) 6 and under ski free

2) Buy an adult all mountain pass, and you get a youth pass for free.

I guess the only logical thing would be to have a couple of kids so I can take advantage of those discounts!

One curve ball that hit me pretty hard this year was that the Mobil Ski Free (Buy one get one free) coupons were not accepted at Sugarbush on Sundays, as they were last year. Sucked for me big time although one positive was I got to ski Mad River Glen more, (when conditions permitted).

Tin Woodsman
03-18-2008, 02:25 PM
I think we are in line taking into consideration what we have to offer. This is skiing after all. At some point you have to face the fact that it is a very expensive sport/obsession.
So Tin and Madhavok were would you go? You could pay less but what would you realy gain? :wink:

There are any number of discount programs available for day tickets. As a result, my break-even on the season pass is somewhere in the 20-25 day range, and that's a tough number to hit coming up from NYC with a young family. And this is for a guy with a house to use at his leisure - can't imagine how the calculation works for those w/o such a great asset at their disposal.

but that calculation changes when the kids hit 7.

Also, I skied a number of days this year because I had a pass and it didn't cost me anything incrementally.

I've got 6.5 years to go.

On your second point, I skied every day I was up in VT but for one, so it wouldn't change my behavior one bit.

HowieT2
03-18-2008, 02:34 PM
I think we are in line taking into consideration what we have to offer. This is skiing after all. At some point you have to face the fact that it is a very expensive sport/obsession.
So Tin and Madhavok were would you go? You could pay less but what would you realy gain? :wink:

There are any number of discount programs available for day tickets. As a result, my break-even on the season pass is somewhere in the 20-25 day range, and that's a tough number to hit coming up from NYC with a young family. And this is for a guy with a house to use at his leisure - can't imagine how the calculation works for those w/o such a great asset at their disposal.

but that calculation changes when the kids hit 7.

Also, I skied a number of days this year because I had a pass and it didn't cost me anything incrementally.

I've got 6.5 years to go.

On your second point, I skied every day I was up in VT but for one, so it wouldn't change my behavior one bit.

Well in that case, congratulations on the new addition to your family. Kids are great, but at least for me, when they are little it cut into the ski time. No wonder you haven't been around the board as much.

TimKeogh
03-18-2008, 09:41 PM
How does $45 a day for all-mountain, no blackouts sound?

Anyone can join our ski club for a nominal annual fee. The deals are incredible.

http://www.wintersetskiclub.org/AboutUs/Information.htm

summitchallenger
03-19-2008, 07:29 AM
Yes, I have a gripe with the cost of season passes, and also how college students get the royal treatment. This goes for most ski resorts and I was not suggesting going else where, (unless Jay Peak magically moves closer to NYC).

Some college students are poor but some are not, yet they all are so important that most ski resorts feel the need to practically give away season passes to them. This means whether you like it or not, part of our ticket and season pass cost goes directly to subsidize the cost of their college season passes.

Meanwhile young workers / couples, struggling to pay back school loans & take on mortgages are obviously not important. Most of them don’t get a degree and instantly start making the “mad money”. It isn’t that easy in the real world.

FWIW SB offers their college pass to those who just graduated....

Hawk
03-19-2008, 12:46 PM
Back on Topic.........Here is a smattering of pass prices at comparable resorts. Forgive me if this was posted somewhere before:
Sunday River - $899 before 4/30/08
Stowe - $ 1,305 - 07 Price (Didn't see '08 )
Killington - $ 999 - 07 Price (Didn't see '08 )
Smuggs - $ 469 - 07 Price (Didn't see '08 )
Jay - $ 634 - 08 Price
Stratton - $ 849 - 08 Price
Okemo - $ 1,029 - 08 Price


This just in....Kmart raises price to $ 1,049 up $50 bucks....

http://rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080319/NEWS04/803190398/1024/NEWS04

summitchallenger
03-20-2008, 07:49 AM
SB most likely for me...

Lostone
03-20-2008, 11:28 AM
Split car topic into Misc section. 8)

happygirl
03-20-2008, 01:16 PM
How many people out there are 80 and ski?

BushMogulMaster
03-20-2008, 07:21 PM
How many people out there are 80 and ski?

Not that many, but enough that it is important to offer that discount to those who do. It's definitely something to be admired.

I've skied with an old fellow out here in CO who's been skiing for over 70 years. I'm not quite sure how old he is, but he must be about 80. He can still rip up the mountain pretty well.

I also personally know several folks who ski Sugarbush on a regular basis who are 70+, and who will likely still be skiing into their 80's. You don't see many, but they're out there!

happygirl
03-21-2008, 11:23 AM
One time I was at Killington taking a lesson and my instructor looked like he was 90 or something. He was totally awesome on skis, I could not keep up with him. I was in my 20's at the time, I know sometimes they can be the best skiers on the mountain.

ski_resort_observer
03-21-2008, 05:10 PM
Before ASC, folks 70+ skied for free at the Bush. They always like to remind us of that even tho they get a pretty cheap price for season passes.

beelze
03-22-2008, 08:55 AM
it is clear that Sugarbush wants to be in the same league pricewise as Stowe. Stratton cheaper? Wow. There will always be people able to pay those prices but the number will get smaller each time the price is raised. Last I checked the the economy is not looking too good with many people living on borrowed time..er money. Which will go first? The 40+K SUV? The Red Sox tickets? The ski pass? The vacation home/condo they use 2 or 3 weeks a year? And as Win (and others) raise the price they better be prepared to hear more and more complaints as people will not be willing to put up with any management claims of mechanical problems, the 'cost' of making snow or the cost of running lifts after President week (hmm.. Inverness?) when it is 'just' season pass holders.

BushMogulMaster
03-22-2008, 06:00 PM
it is clear that Sugarbush wants to be in the same league pricewise as Stowe. Stratton cheaper? Wow. There will always be people able to pay those prices but the number will get smaller each time the price is raised. Last I checked the the economy is not looking too good with many people living on borrowed time..er money. Which will go first? The 40+K SUV? The Red Sox tickets? The ski pass? The vacation home/condo they use 2 or 3 weeks a year? And as Win (and others) raise the price they better be prepared to hear more and more complaints as people will not be willing to put up with any management claims of mechanical problems, the 'cost' of making snow or the cost of running lifts after President week (hmm.. Inverness?) when it is 'just' season pass holders.

FYI, average profit margin in the ski business is 3%. Even with pass prices this high. Bitch all you want, there's not money going into anyone's pocket at the ski area.

And I don't even want to get into the lifts/snowmaking cost equation right now. Most people have zero idea of what it takes to make that happen, both physically and financially.

What you have to understand is that the poor economy doesn't just affect the guests. It can affect the area as well. You say fewer people will buy the pass each time the price is raised? But it has been raised just about each year in the past, and Win has told us on this forum how much pass sales have been going up in recent years. As much as I agree that skiing is, unfortunately, not very affordable for the average person, it doesn't look like pass prices are causing much of a detriment to sales. On the contrary, sales continue to rise.

My $.02

Fourwide
03-22-2008, 08:58 PM
They travel in big groups, drink lots of beer and eat plenty of nachos, not having to get back to work. They may ski on a discounted basis, but my hunch is that they leave lots of $$ on the mountain!

What's happygirl drinking as the Spring begins? We need to know!

happygirl
03-23-2008, 08:06 AM
They travel in big groups, drink lots of beer and eat plenty of nachos, not having to get back to work. They may ski on a discounted basis, but my hunch is that they leave lots of $$ on the mountain!

What's happygirl drinking as the Spring begins? We need to know!


Right now, I am just drinking water and a shot of Dunkin Donuts coffee! :wink:

Last Tracks
03-23-2008, 08:59 AM
I think the MT Ellen Plus pass is the best deal in Vermont skiing.

You pay $529.00 for the Mt Ellen pass and for $160.00 more you get 5 days at Lincoln Peak which comes out to $32.00 a ticket. This year I used my 5 Lincoln Peak days on holiday weekends when tickets are much more expensive. If I wanted to go to Lincoln Peak during mid week I used a Mobil coupon, ski with the point, or some other deal. You can ski Lincoln Peak when Mt. Ellen is not open yet and after it closes.

And of course you have unlimited days at Mt. Ellen which has the greatest vertical drop of any Vermont ski area, awesome woods, and an "old school" less-crowded feel.

And you can ski the rest of this year too if you don't already have a pass.

Sure skiing is expensive but on it is sooooo fun and worth every penny on a day like yesterday!

shadyjay
03-23-2008, 09:20 AM
I agree fully with "Last Tracks". I had the Mt Ellen pass last season and had the ME Plus pass this season and I have not been disappointed. Its still amazing at how uncrowded ME is, especially on the weekends and during holidays. On most days I'm there, its like my own private playground. The feel and attitude of the mtn is great and I'm definetely gonna renew my ME Plus for next year. As nice as an all-mtn pass would be, I'd have to ride A LOT of days to make it worth the $$$ plus you never know what next season will bring. Plus, I'll be at LP before and after ME opens/closes anyway so I'll get my fill on all of my slopes. And perhaps by next season, I'll brave the only ME trails I haven't done yet to date (FIS, B/D, Bravo, Exterminator).

happygirl
03-23-2008, 12:12 PM
I think the MT Ellen Plus pass is the best deal in Vermont skiing.

You pay $529.00 for the Mt Ellen pass and for $160.00 more you get 5 days at Lincoln Peak which comes out to $32.00 a ticket. This year I used my 5 Lincoln Peak days on holiday weekends when tickets are much more expensive. If I wanted to go to Lincoln Peak during mid week I used a Mobil coupon, ski with the point, or some other deal. You can ski Lincoln Peak when Mt. Ellen is not open yet and after it closes.

And of course you have unlimited days at Mt. Ellen which has the greatest vertical drop of any Vermont ski area, awesome woods, and an "old school" less-crowded feel.

And you can ski the rest of this year too if you don't already have a pass.

Sure skiing is expensive but on it is sooooo fun and worth every penny on a day like yesterday!

That sounds like a deal compared to the other mountains around like Killington etc.

djd66
03-23-2008, 06:33 PM
it is clear that Sugarbush wants to be in the same league pricewise as Stowe. Stratton cheaper? Wow. There will always be people able to pay those prices but the number will get smaller each time the price is raised. Last I checked the the economy is not looking too good with many people living on borrowed time..er money. Which will go first? The 40+K SUV? The Red Sox tickets? The ski pass? The vacation home/condo they use 2 or 3 weeks a year? And as Win (and others) raise the price they better be prepared to hear more and more complaints as people will not be willing to put up with any management claims of mechanical problems, the 'cost' of making snow or the cost of running lifts after President week (hmm.. Inverness?) when it is 'just' season pass holders.

Have you check the cost of energy lately???? I don't know much about running a ski resort but based on how much it costs to fill up my oil tank and gas tank - prices are going up. I have to assume that the biggest expense of a ski area are their enery costs (lifts + snow making) I don't like the idea of lift ticket and season pass prices going up either, but,... based on the cost of energy I think it is justified.

Tin Woodsman
03-24-2008, 02:51 PM
The tax topic is interesting and got moved to the MRV thread. Please continue discussing there.

beelze
03-26-2008, 09:22 AM
FYI, average profit margin in the ski business is 3%. Even with pass prices this high. Bitch all you want, there's not money going into anyone's pocket at the ski area.

And I don't even want to get into the lifts/snowmaking cost equation right now. Most people have zero idea of what it takes to make that happen, both physically and financially.

What you have to understand is that the poor economy doesn't just affect the guests. It can affect the area as well. You say fewer people will buy the pass each time the price is raised? But it has been raised just about each year in the past, and Win has told us on this forum how much pass sales have been going up in recent years. As much as I agree that skiing is, unfortunately, not very affordable for the average person, it doesn't look like pass prices are causing much of a detriment to sales. On the contrary, sales continue to rise.

My $.02

How does Jay Peak manage to keep pass at 50% of the Sugarbush price (non-discounted rates on both)?
Same for Smuggs? Though Suguarbush has a few more 'lifts' (mat/pomas/inverness) Jay has the Cram
to deal with. Skiable acres are similar when one factors in that Mt. Ellen is closed roughly 25% of the
season (so a full pass holder does *not* get the full benefit of the totals that Sugarbush lists.)

As to your point about Win/poor economy - why are so many businesses out of biz or forsale in this
area? Are all these people eating on the mountain? In the roughly 8 years I've been up here a lot have
left (some not voluntarily) but only EasyStreet/Pub came in? Likewise I do recall in 98-01 period
there was actually a cop directing traffic at the bottom of the access road - perhaps it was overkill
but he did seem busy - doing something other than setting up a speed trap.

The bottom line is the best we can hope for is a low rate of increase and continued respect for
passholders who front the money to Sugarbush in May.

Tin Woodsman
03-26-2008, 12:32 PM
How does Jay Peak manage to keep pass at 50% of the Sugarbush price (non-discounted rates on both)?
Same for Smuggs? Though Suguarbush has a few more 'lifts' (mat/pomas/inverness) Jay has the Cram
to deal with. Skiable acres are similar when one factors in that Mt. Ellen is closed roughly 25% of the
season (so a full pass holder does *not* get the full benefit of the totals that Sugarbush lists.)

As to your point about Win/poor economy - why are so many businesses out of biz or forsale in this
area? Are all these people eating on the mountain? In the roughly 8 years I've been up here a lot have
left (some not voluntarily) but only EasyStreet/Pub came in? Likewise I do recall in 98-01 period
there was actually a cop directing traffic at the bottom of the access road - perhaps it was overkill
but he did seem busy - doing something other than setting up a speed trap.

The bottom line is the best we can hope for is a low rate of increase and continued respect for
passholders who front the money to Sugarbush in May.

As I've said above, the price point for SB season passes don't work for me, but the answer to your question is simple. SB charges twice as much b/c it can. Jay may have all the snow in the world, but it's cold, remote, and has little terrain to interest your average intermediate cruiser. If they charged what SB does, they'd have very few takers.

freeheel_skier
03-26-2008, 01:19 PM
How does Jay Peak manage to keep pass at 50% of the Sugarbush price (non-discounted rates on both)?
Same for Smuggs? Though Suguarbush has a few more 'lifts' (mat/pomas/inverness) Jay has the Cram
to deal with. Skiable acres are similar when one factors in that Mt. Ellen is closed roughly 25% of the
season (so a full pass holder does *not* get the full benefit of the totals that Sugarbush lists.)

As to your point about Win/poor economy - why are so many businesses out of biz or forsale in this
area? Are all these people eating on the mountain? In the roughly 8 years I've been up here a lot have
left (some not voluntarily) but only EasyStreet/Pub came in? Likewise I do recall in 98-01 period
there was actually a cop directing traffic at the bottom of the access road - perhaps it was overkill
but he did seem busy - doing something other than setting up a speed trap.

The bottom line is the best we can hope for is a low rate of increase and continued respect for
passholders who front the money to Sugarbush in May.

As I've said above, the price point for SB season passes don't work for me, but the answer to your question is simple. SB charges twice as much b/c it can. Jay may have all the terrain in the world, but it's cold, remote, and has little terrain to interest your average intermediate cruiser. If they charged what SB does, they'd have very few takers.

Once you are done skiing @ Jay there is ZERO to do, esp @ night. However, they do have great mtn biking in the summer :D .

Also, how do you come up with the 25% figure for ME being closed?

beelze
03-27-2008, 11:39 AM
Also, how do you come up with the 25% figure for ME being closed?

Well.. I just ball parked it based on it opening after LP and closing at least 2 weeks before LP.
I've looked back in the forum and seems Mt. Ellen opened around 12/20 this year? If we
put the season Turkey Day - 4/15 thats about 21 full weeks, ME is open 14, so in fact thats only
2/3 of the season. But I think maybe this year was later than most in regards the split open
so lets split the diff and call it 70%? 75% in a 'good' year? So i think my initial guess of it being
closed 25% is to first order a good guess.


Re nothing to do at JP, true enough but they (and Smuggs) still seem able to operate/stay in biz
while charging less but seemingly with more than 50% of the terrain/costs. You are right, SB gets what
it does because it can but that doesn't mean we have to shed tears for Win (or whomever owns it)
because diesel fuel prices go up or 'only passholders ski late season'.

HowieT2
03-27-2008, 01:40 PM
Also, how do you come up with the 25% figure for ME being closed?

Well.. I just ball parked it based on it opening after LP and closing at least 2 weeks before LP.
I've looked back in the forum and seems Mt. Ellen opened around 12/20 this year? If we
put the season Turkey Day - 4/15 thats about 21 full weeks, ME is open 14, so in fact thats only
2/3 of the season. But I think maybe this year was later than most in regards the split open
so lets split the diff and call it 70%? 75% in a 'good' year? So i think my initial guess of it being
closed 25% is to first order a good guess.


Re nothing to do at JP, true enough but they (and Smuggs) still seem able to operate/stay in biz
while charging less but seemingly with more than 50% of the terrain/costs. You are right, SB gets what
it does because it can but that doesn't mean we have to shed tears for Win (or whomever owns it)
because diesel fuel prices go up or 'only passholders ski late season'.

I can't speak to Jay Peak but I have friends who are regulars at Smuggs and from what they tell me the lift situation there is a disaster on weekends/holidays. They don't even go to the main mountain on weekends because the wait at the main lifts are up to an hour.

skibum1321
03-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Also, how do you come up with the 25% figure for ME being closed?

Well.. I just ball parked it based on it opening after LP and closing at least 2 weeks before LP.
I've looked back in the forum and seems Mt. Ellen opened around 12/20 this year? If we
put the season Turkey Day - 4/15 thats about 21 full weeks, ME is open 14, so in fact thats only
2/3 of the season. But I think maybe this year was later than most in regards the split open
so lets split the diff and call it 70%? 75% in a 'good' year? So i think my initial guess of it being
closed 25% is to first order a good guess.


Re nothing to do at JP, true enough but they (and Smuggs) still seem able to operate/stay in biz
while charging less but seemingly with more than 50% of the terrain/costs. You are right, SB gets what
it does because it can but that doesn't mean we have to shed tears for Win (or whomever owns it)
because diesel fuel prices go up or 'only passholders ski late season'.

I can't speak to Jay Peak but I have friends who are regulars at Smuggs and from what they tell me the lift situation there is a disaster on weekends/holidays. They don't even go to the main mountain on weekends because the wait at the main lifts are up to an hour.
I'll vouch for that. I had a pass at Smuggs last season (and for a bunch of others before) and Madonna liftlines are ridiculous. Sterling is bad too, although I would say the longest that I waited there was closer to 30-40 mins. You just need to know where to go to make the most of your runs when you wait that long :).

shadyjay
03-27-2008, 06:05 PM
I went to Smuggs 2 seasons ago and was shocked to find nothing but old slow doubles, some with mid stations. For a resort that prides itself as being the #1 family resort in Vermont (or was it the East?), I was expecting something more in the lifts department. While there are (I'm sure) some who long for the days of no high speed lifts at the Bush, at least on weekends here, the lines are reasonable, especially at North.

I haven't been back to Smuggs since that one frigid Point day in 05/06... a liftee there made fun of my season pass to SB.

Lostone
03-28-2008, 08:30 AM
I've had (I think) 4 passes at Smuggs. I had a full pass there, and a bronze pass at the bush. Smuggs is a great mountain. It is not in real competition with Sugarbush.

As mentioned, they have old, slow doubles. Were they to upgrade them to HSQs, the trails would suck. They have some great terrain, but not enough for significant lift expansion.

They open later and close earlier. But there is some great skiing, there.

They cost less because you get less.

beelze
03-29-2008, 10:21 AM
I've had (I think)
As mentioned, they have old, slow doubles. Were they to upgrade them to HSQs, the trails would suck. They have some great terrain, but not enough for significant lift expansion.

They open later and close earlier. But there is some great skiing, there.

They cost less because you get less.

As to their dates, I just looked at their webpage and got:Friday, November 23, 2007 - Sunday, April 13, 2008. So a
week earlier than SB but they do not intentionally close 50% of their terrain 3 weeks earlier. Agreed on the old
double chairs (not that SB doesnt have its share of slow lifts too) but you seem to be saying if they added capacity
the trails wouldn't be able to handle it - which seems to imply that they are at a price point which creates significant
skiier visits, more than they have the capacity for. If so, it would make more sense for them to *raise* prices to
prevent excess crowding and for Sugarbush to *lower* prices to generate more volume (lets be honest - except for
holidays there really are no lift lines at SB).

I've not seen any comments on Jay other than the lack of night life but if I recall they have 3 or 4 quads and the
cram and a few doubles. Haven't been up there in the past two years though.

shadyjay
03-29-2008, 01:19 PM
Jay is "way up there", is cold and frequently windy, surfaces windblown, and a lot of folk from 'cross the border. The Tram line on weekends is ridiculously long, and if you don't want to deal with that, you can get on the 'Freezer. While they say they get the most snow in the east, I think the majority of that blows in the woods, leaving the trails as skating rinks. For those that have never been there, picture every trail being like Deathspout, or even the very top of Rim Run at ME. Their woods are what makes them famous and popular. As for their other lifts, they have the Bonny Quad, the triple on Stateside, and the former 'Slug' (aka the Metro), plus a double down low. Haven't been there at all this season - its a good mtn, but not my favorite by a long shot. There isn't a lot of "comrodery" (sp?) since hardly anyone there is speaking English.

I'll spend my $$$ at the Bush and plan to get the ME Plus for next season.

djd66
03-31-2008, 01:59 PM
Does anyone know what the price will be for an ALL Mtn. 7 pass after 5/1? I called the season pass office and they didn't know. No info on the web site either. Call me crazy, but how can I decide if it is worth it to shell out $2,000 now if I don't know what the price will be after 5/1.

castlerock
04-01-2008, 01:12 PM
Does anyone know what the price will be for an ALL Mtn. 7 pass after 5/1? I called the season pass office and they didn't know. No info on the web site either. Call me crazy, but how can I decide if it is worth it to shell out $2,000 now if I don't know what the price will be after 5/1.

It will be more expensive than the present cost plus the cost of money. Buy it now, (4/31 actually) unless you are carrying it on a credit card for some length of time.

madhavok
04-01-2008, 01:39 PM
Does anyone know what the price will be for an ALL Mtn. 7 pass after 5/1? I called the season pass office and they didn't know. No info on the web site either. Call me crazy, but how can I decide if it is worth it to shell out $2,000 now if I don't know what the price will be after 5/1.

To answer your question I don't know. However my best guess is the adult season pass is going to cost $1449 if you wait until ski season.

gone.skiing
04-02-2008, 01:35 PM
Last year price jump between 5/1 and next deadline (not sure about the date) was only $50.

barkbiter
04-02-2008, 06:34 PM
Last year price jump between 5/1 and next deadline (not sure about the date) was only $50.

They should have just asked you first Mr. Goneskiin...........

djd66
04-02-2008, 07:03 PM
I assume that the price after 5/1 will be $50 additional (same as last year), it would be nice if someone had this information for sure. If its $50, I think I will hold out, more than that and I would consider shelling the money out now. What would be nice is $50 savings plus I get to use the pass over the summer for Mtn. biking and zip line rides.