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freeheel_skier
01-07-2008, 09:07 PM
NICE! :P Where is the cell phone tower powered by a wind turbine?

shadyjay
01-07-2008, 09:27 PM
NICE! :P Where is the cell phone tower powered by a wind turbine?

It's not likely to see a new "obvious" cell phone tower built on the mountain, or anywhere in any natural state of Vermont. I've been trying to get Verizon to get some antennaes built somewhere on an existing installation on the mountain (top of L/P or top of North Ridge), but to no avail so far. Priorities right now are Rt 9 corridor in southern VT. But that's another story.

freeheel_skier
01-07-2008, 09:32 PM
NICE! :P Where is the cell phone tower powered by a wind turbine?

It's not likely to see a new "obvious" cell phone tower built on the mountain, or anywhere in any natural state of Vermont. I've been trying to get Verizon to get some antennaes built somewhere on an existing installation on the mountain (top of L/P or top of North Ridge), but to no avail so far. Priorities right now are Rt 9 corridor in southern VT. But that's another story.

I was being facetious :wink:

Go Figure
01-07-2008, 09:35 PM
[

It's not likely to see a new "obvious" cell phone tower built on the mountain, or anywhere in any natural state of Vermont. I've been trying to get Verizon to get some antennaes built somewhere on an existing installation on the mountain (top of L/P or top of North Ridge), but to no avail so far. Priorities right now are Rt 9 corridor in southern VT. But that's another story.[/quote]

You must be doing a hell of a job as there is a cell array on the top of Northridge. :lol:

ski_resort_observer
01-07-2008, 10:08 PM
Sugarbush already has a Unicel cell tower, assumably the not so obvious one FS mentions, so if your phone doesn't work it's cause you have the wrong carrier. It's so tall most don't even know it exits. :wink: A few years ago a company from Maine proposed putting in several cell towers along the ridges along I89 but as you can imagine they didn't get to far with that idea.

I think cell phones should be confiscated at the borders as I know it will make folks much less stressful when they come Vermont to supposably chill out. The increase in family walkie talkies are starting to get very annoying as well. Your kids will be fine without parents knowing what they are doing every second of the day. :wink:

HowieT2
01-07-2008, 10:18 PM
Sugarbush already has a Unicel cell tower so if your phone doesn't work it's cause you have the wrong carrier. It's so tall most don't even know it exits. :wink:

Having great cell service on mtn is really helpful when you have multiple little kids to track. Can't wait till I can get a chip implanted in them. :lol:

freeheel_skier
01-07-2008, 11:09 PM
Sugarbush already has a Unicel cell tower, assumably the not so obvious one FS mentions, so if your phone doesn't work it's cause you have the wrong carrier. It's so tall most don't even know it exits. :wink: A few years ago a company from Maine proposed putting in several cell towers along the ridges along I89 but as you can imagine they didn't get to far with that idea.

I think cell phones should be confiscated at the borders as I know it will make folks much less stressful when they come Vermont to supposably chill out. The increase in family walkie talkies are starting to get very annoying as well. Your kids will be fine without parents knowing what they are doing every second of the day. :wink:

I agree with the walkie talkies.....how did my brothers(3) and I find my parents with out one???? Oh yeh, We waited at the bottom of the hill.....when/where they told us to be there 8)

HowieT2
01-08-2008, 07:54 AM
Sugarbush already has a Unicel cell tower, assumably the not so obvious one FS mentions, so if your phone doesn't work it's cause you have the wrong carrier. It's so tall most don't even know it exits. :wink: A few years ago a company from Maine proposed putting in several cell towers along the ridges along I89 but as you can imagine they didn't get to far with that idea.

I think cell phones should be confiscated at the borders as I know it will make folks much less stressful when they come Vermont to supposably chill out. The increase in family walkie talkies are starting to get very annoying as well. Your kids will be fine without parents knowing what they are doing every second of the day. :wink:

I agree with the walkie talkies.....how did my brothers(3) and I find my parents with out one???? Oh yeh, We waited at the bottom of the hill.....when/where they told us to be there 8)

I've done the walkie talkie/meet at the bottom thing, but it is not as efficient or reliable in transmitting information as text messaging on the cell phone. Could we live without it, certainly. But I would be more stressed without the cell service than with it. I have a wife and two kids and keeping everyone coordinated is essential. Also, I have been lucky enough to be able to ski in VT instead of being in my office in NY in large part because I can be reached by cell phone/e-mail. If that wasn't available I don't know that I would be able to spend as much time on the mtn.

freeheel_skier
01-08-2008, 10:06 AM
Sugarbush already has a Unicel cell tower, assumably the not so obvious one FS mentions, so if your phone doesn't work it's cause you have the wrong carrier. It's so tall most don't even know it exits. :wink: A few years ago a company from Maine proposed putting in several cell towers along the ridges along I89 but as you can imagine they didn't get to far with that idea.

I think cell phones should be confiscated at the borders as I know it will make folks much less stressful when they come Vermont to supposably chill out. The increase in family walkie talkies are starting to get very annoying as well. Your kids will be fine without parents knowing what they are doing every second of the day. :wink:

I agree with the walkie talkies.....how did my brothers(3) and I find my parents with out one???? Oh yeh, We waited at the bottom of the hill.....when/where they told us to be there 8)

I've done the walkie talkie/meet at the bottom thing, but it is not as efficient or reliable in transmitting information as text messaging on the cell phone. Could we live without it, certainly. But I would be more stressed without the cell service than with it. I have a wife and two kids and keeping everyone coordinated is essential. Also, I have been lucky enough to be able to ski in VT instead of being in my office in NY in large part because I can be reached by cell phone/e-mail. If that wasn't available I don't know that I would be able to spend as much time on the mtn.


Howie,
I have a wife and 2 kids as well. I want to keep tabs on them while on the mountain and I agree txt works best. I usually do the meet and greet thing (works for me maybe not others).
I jsut have no patients for people who think that I am interested in their phone conversation while sharing a chairlift ride with them(not you per se). Thank goodness this doesn't happen often. I contemplated jumping off the chairlift once. :shock: The guy was a really "loud talker". It also bothers me when the walkie talkies are alerting/beeping. Half the time it is for someone other than the person I happen to be riding the lift with because 19 other people are sharing the same channel! I say keep the volume down and put the phone on vibrate.

I have a job in sales and play hooky often :shock: When on the mtn I keep my crackberry usage to a minimum and in/outside the lodge. However, I do send really convining emails to my customers that I am looking out for their best interests while sipping hot tea in front of the fireplace @ Allyn's :lol:

Now when skiing or mtn biking with friends we have a no cellphone protocol. Whoever breaks protocol buys post ride/apres beers! :P
:wink:

djd66
01-08-2008, 10:52 AM
I am also in sales and need to be conected when I'm up at the Bush. An easy solution that has worked for me was to buy a "pay as you go" Unicel phone that I only use when I am in Vermont. The phone was $50 + $10/month + .10/min and no long term contract. When I get to exit 5 on 89, I forward all my Verizon calls to the Unicel phone. (*72) I have excellent coverage and it is seamless for my customers or anyone that is trying to get hold of me. The good news is Verizon bought Unicel last summer, so sometime in the near future I will be able to drop my Unicel phone and just use my Verizon phone in the Valley. I agree about phone usage in public places and make a big effort not to ruin anyones "wilderness experience" while I am on the phone.

ski_resort_observer
01-08-2008, 12:04 PM
I agree about phone usage in public places and make a big effort not to ruin anyones "wilderness experience" while I am on the phone.

It's just as bad in the lodge, cafeteria, the AG shop and even the bathroom...not exactly "wilderness experiences". Bathrooms should be a relaxing expereince, not hearing some guy yelling in his walkie-talkie demanding that his son help his little brother to put his helmet on.............. :wink: :lol:

HowieT2
01-08-2008, 12:26 PM
I agree about phone usage in public places and make a big effort not to ruin anyones "wilderness experience" while I am on the phone.

It's just as bad in the lodge, cafeteria, the AG shop and even the bathroom...not exactly "wilderness experiences". Bathrooms should be a relaxing expereince, not hearing some guy yelling in his walkie-talkie demanding that his son help his little brother to put his helmet on.............. :wink: :lol:

There are rude, loud people with and without cellphones/walkie talkies. I try to keep my conversations to myself and text message whenever possible. I did get a phone call while enjoying first tracks on Paradise before New Years. Annoying to me, but no one else.

Interesting about Verizon buying Unicell. Does that mean that ATT will in the future not be using the unicell network? I had always assumed that the reason that ATT worked on Unicell and Verizon did not, was because of technological incompatibility, ATT being GSM and Verizon CDMA. Is this not the case?

shadyjay
01-08-2008, 09:11 PM
Alright .... the other story:

From what I gathered about the VZW/Unicel merger, some existing towers on Unicel will go to AT&T so that people can use the IPhone. Not all of them are changing hands, though.
VZW and Unicel work on two seperate networks, and changing a tower over to VZW would most likely require completely new equipment, and most likely new antennaes. I know up at the Bush there is Sprint coverage since I used to have full bars when I had Sprint, guessing because they were an ASC sponsor in the late 90s.

I'm for cell service in the Valley, but not in the essence of it to be expoited by parents/children while on the slopes. Every time I go riding, no matter where I am, the phone stays in the truck, and at the Bush - it gets turned off (otherwise battery would go dead).

Remember the days when we all went to school - there were no cell phones. Nowadays, parents demand kids have cell phones in school in case they need to get in touch with their kids. Well here's a thought ... do what my parents did, and call the school! They know where you should be.

There's always the time, however, when you're driving around the Valley and all of a sudden, go off the road into a ditch and need to call for assistance. Me having VZW, I'm s-o-l, unless a friendly Unicel motorist comes up.

There are rude people no matter what, not just on cell phones. How bout those that stop right in the middle of the trail? Or the motorists who drive around in a raging blizzard without headlights on. Or those that.... well........ you get the idea.


Jay

"That's my opinion..... What's Yours"

HowieT2
01-08-2008, 10:20 PM
Alright .... the other story:

From what I gathered about the VZW/Unicel merger, some existing towers on Unicel will go to AT&T so that people can use the IPhone. Not all of them are changing hands, though.
VZW and Unicel work on two seperate networks, and changing a tower over to VZW would most likely require completely new equipment, and most likely new antennaes. I know up at the Bush there is Sprint coverage since I used to have full bars when I had Sprint, guessing because they were an ASC sponsor in the late 90s.

I'm for cell service in the Valley, but not in the essence of it to be expoited by parents/children while on the slopes. Every time I go riding, no matter where I am, the phone stays in the truck, and at the Bush - it gets turned off (otherwise battery would go dead).

Remember the days when we all went to school - there were no cell phones. Nowadays, parents demand kids have cell phones in school in case they need to get in touch with their kids. Well here's a thought ... do what my parents did, and call the school! They know where you should be.

There's always the time, however, when you're driving around the Valley and all of a sudden, go off the road into a ditch and need to call for assistance. Me having VZW, I'm s-o-l, unless a friendly Unicel motorist comes up.

I know t-mobile works and that is GSM also.

As for waxing nostalgic for the days before cell phones, email, message boards, etc. well those days are gone forever. Me, I'm glad I can ski more because I can communicate with my wife and kids.

There are rude people no matter what, not just on cell phones. How bout those that stop right in the middle of the trail? Or the motorists who drive around in a raging blizzard without headlights on. Or those that.... well........ you get the idea.


Jay

"That's my opinion..... What's Yours"

ski_resort_observer
01-08-2008, 11:04 PM
Alright .... the other story:

There's always the time, however, when you're driving around the Valley and all of a sudden, go off the road into a ditch and need to call for assistance. Me having VZW, I'm s-o-l, unless a friendly Unicel motorist comes up.
Jay

"That's my opinion..... What's Yours"

I don't think you would be SOL at all. I bet within a minute of you going off the road into a ditch people would stop to first make sure your okay and then they would try to get your car back on the road or at the very least use their cellphone to call for assistance.

chuck
01-09-2008, 07:47 AM
I'm all for leaving my cell OFF and no walkie talkies for the kiddies. Unfortunately in the world we live in today with school shootings it is most imperative our children have communications. Terrorism, I live 30 mi. outside the city, was en route to lower Manhattan that day. My wife is a school teacher, inner city school, phones are imperative for the faculty. It is my hope we will never need them ever again. As I mentioned, I don't want to be disturbed when I'm ripping rumble, I'm busy, buzz off. I am truly saddened that my children (4,13,19,21) have had the traumatic events in there lives that i never grew up with, school shootings, terrorism and a war where there friends have left never to return. We come to Vermont/Sugarbush to escape all this, so I do agree that there are some folks out there, annoying parents and children alike who need to zip it and meet at the gate house lodge at 1230 for lunch, not have a 5 min conversation about it on the chairlift sitting next to me, it's rude. Phone etiquette people.

ski_resort_observer
01-09-2008, 08:13 AM
I'm all for leaving my cell OFF and no walkie talkies for the kiddies. Unfortunately in the world we live in today with school shootings it is most imperative our children have communications. Terrorism, I live 30 mi. outside the city, was en route to lower Manhattan that day. My wife is a school teacher, inner city school, phones are imperative for the faculty. It is my hope we will never need them ever again. As I mentioned, I don't want to be disturbed when I'm ripping rumble, I'm busy, buzz off. I am truly saddened that my children (4,13,19,21) have had the traumatic events in there lives that i never grew up with, school shootings, terrorism and a war where there friends have left never to return. We come to Vermont/Sugarbush to escape all this, so I do agree that there are some folks out there, annoying parents and children alike who need to zip it and meet at the gate house lodge at 1230 for lunch, not have a 5 min conversation about it on the chairlift sitting next to me, it's rude. Phone etiquette people.

Unfortunately it happens in Vermont as well. About a year ago a kid went into a middle school up in Essex and killed a popular teacher. I have 3 kids but I refuse to allow that stuff to change the way our family operates. I see no logic as to how cell phones or walki-talkies would prevent that stuff from happening. However, as parents, you have to do what makes you comfortable, I think we all understand that.

chuck
01-09-2008, 08:46 AM
unfortunately i do not see it as an issue of prevention, people will do the unexpected. How cellular technology is so important is that immediate conveyance of critical information to authorities paramedics, police or fire so that they can appropriately respond. For instance - i'm driving up rte 100 at 2am and there is a house on fire - and no mobile service. I would much rather have a trained, appropriately outfitted firefighter busting into that house looking for people, then me. So please, install the towers, antennas, and people for gods sake don't be annoying on your phones!! Have a face to face conversation with the person on the other end - it's much more rewarding.

jwt
01-09-2008, 10:05 AM
Read it years ago in a ski rag - guy in gondola at Vail is chatting on cell . . . . finishes. . . ... . .guy sitting across from him says ' hey nice phone, can I see it?' Cell user ' Sure.' 'How much did this cost?' User '$600'

Guy then chucks phone out the window and hands the guy 6 $100 bills and says ' I came here to ski, not to listen to that.'


I use FRS radios. . .we got 10 people we ski with on a regular basis. . . . can't ski with them all, but when I find one or two wanting to get into the woods, I need to find them. Great for my kids too. I do like it when it is cold and they die though.

The quiet experience in the mountains ( sans snowguns) is an awesome sound.

ski_resort_observer
01-09-2008, 12:12 PM
I have a business asociate that has a wind turbine and solar panels that lives entirely off the grid. I think that if more people in this country followed his lead we could decrease our dependency on the great liquid imported comodity and maybe prevent some future conflicts. I guess I am not realy bothered by the sight of these things. There are more important things to worry about. :wink:

As soon as our youngest grads from HS we will be buying another place and that's exactly what we are going to do. I don't know if we will be completely off the grid but I plan on powering the place by ourselves as much as we can....knowing it will probably cost more initially to achieve that. I'm already drawing up plans.

Did this for my place in Wyoming...you really get a great sense of accomplishment just making it thru the day, especially if it's -40F outside.

This is our personal choice, I don't think it serves any usefull purpose to judge others on their personal preferences. Diferent strokes for diferent folks I say. :D

I sense this thread is starting to head to a discussion not intended by the OP. I'm to blame as much as anyone....sorry.

Let's get back to Ads and lift tower signs....... :lol:

Strat
01-10-2008, 05:08 PM
Alright .... the other story:

From what I gathered about the VZW/Unicel merger, some existing towers on Unicel will go to AT&T so that people can use the IPhone. Not all of them are changing hands, though.
VZW and Unicel work on two seperate networks, and changing a tower over to VZW would most likely require completely new equipment, and most likely new antennaes. I know up at the Bush there is Sprint coverage since I used to have full bars when I had Sprint, guessing because they were an ASC sponsor in the late 90s.

I'm for cell service in the Valley, but not in the essence of it to be expoited by parents/children while on the slopes. Every time I go riding, no matter where I am, the phone stays in the truck, and at the Bush - it gets turned off (otherwise battery would go dead).

Remember the days when we all went to school - there were no cell phones. Nowadays, parents demand kids have cell phones in school in case they need to get in touch with their kids. Well here's a thought ... do what my parents did, and call the school! They know where you should be.

There's always the time, however, when you're driving around the Valley and all of a sudden, go off the road into a ditch and need to call for assistance. Me having VZW, I'm s-o-l, unless a friendly Unicel motorist comes up.

There are rude people no matter what, not just on cell phones. How bout those that stop right in the middle of the trail? Or the motorists who drive around in a raging blizzard without headlights on. Or those that.... well........ you get the idea.


Jay

"That's my opinion..... What's Yours"

So, Jay, if the Verizon purchase of Unicel does go through completely, does that mean that the Unicel towers not converted for AT&T usage will be completely put out of commission, and all Unicel customers will have to convert to Verizon service? I hope not...

HowieT2
01-10-2008, 05:30 PM
Rural Cellular (Unicel) utilizes both CDMA and GSM technology separately across its five regional markets. Verizon Wireless plans to deploy CDMA service in Rural Cellular's existing GSM markets and convert the GSM customers to CDMA service. Verizon Wireless, however, anticipates maintaining Rural Cellular's existing GSM networks to continue serving the roaming needs of other GSM carriers' customers.

Strat
01-10-2008, 05:52 PM
Rural Cellular (Unicel) utilizes both CDMA and GSM technology separately across its five regional markets. Verizon Wireless plans to deploy CDMA service in Rural Cellular's existing GSM markets and convert the GSM customers to CDMA service. Verizon Wireless, however, anticipates maintaining Rural Cellular's existing GSM networks to continue serving the roaming needs of other GSM carriers' customers.
If they plan to deploy CDMA, they better do a darn good job to replace the existing Unicel GSM network, which has excellent coverage in many parts of the state.

Go Figure
01-10-2008, 06:01 PM
Correct Me if I am wrong[and I know You will :roll: ].The problem with the sale is We only have 2 carriers,Verizon and Unicel.When the sale happens Verizon would be a monopoly of one. The Fed is requiring Verizon to sell the Vermont service ,parts of Maine and some other areas to the new Singular AT&T to fix this.
:?:

shadyjay
01-10-2008, 07:33 PM
The whole issue is quite confusing to many, myself included, and I'm in the business. The purchase of Unicel by Verizon would definetely create a monopoly in Vermont in regards to cell service, which is why some towers will go to AT&T. It is my guess that this will occur in areas where Verizon and Unicel coverage overlap. We have recently activated many new towers in VT, including the Rt 7 corridor from Bennington up to near Rutland. We have also turned on the Middlesex/Moretown tower, which is the perfect example of a pine tree cell tower - I worked on it, yet have trouble picking it out of the pines when passing by. Our I-91 South towers are underway and will terminate "extended network" contracts with NH Unicel towers. We're also tackling Rt 9 between BBoro and Bennington - a fun 3-hour drive (each way) from Waterbury/Moretown every day. I'm assuming one day soon we'll be doing the Rt 2 and Rt 15 corridors at some point. In theory, a MRV loop could be done by heading over App Gap to avoid going through Granville Gulf, a black hole for any sort of wireless communication (FM radio, cell phone, satellite radio, etc).

Since its an FCC issue and monopoly concerns, I'm not holding my breath over how long this'll all take. No doubt, the next 6 mo to a year will get interesting in the telecommunications industry. Who would'a thought the AT&T name would be back in the US in its present form. They're looking at eating up the national landline business again. History repeats itself.

HowieT2
01-10-2008, 08:16 PM
The whole issue is quite confusing to many, myself included, and I'm in the business. The purchase of Unicel by Verizon would definetely create a monopoly in Vermont in regards to cell service, which is why some towers will go to AT&T. It is my guess that this will occur in areas where Verizon and Unicel coverage overlap. We have recently activated many new towers in VT, including the Rt 7 corridor from Bennington up to near Rutland. We have also turned on the Middlesex/Moretown tower, which is the perfect example of a pine tree cell tower - I worked on it, yet have trouble picking it out of the pines when passing by. Our I-91 South towers are underway and will terminate "extended network" contracts with NH Unicel towers. We're also tackling Rt 9 between BBoro and Bennington - a fun 3-hour drive (each way) from Waterbury/Moretown every day. I'm assuming one day soon we'll be doing the Rt 2 and Rt 15 corridors at some point. In theory, a MRV loop could be done by heading over App Gap to avoid going through Granville Gulf, a black hole for any sort of wireless communication (FM radio, cell phone, satellite radio, etc).

Since its an FCC issue and monopoly concerns, I'm not holding my breath over how long this'll all take. No doubt, the next 6 mo to a year will get interesting in the telecommunications industry. Who would'a thought the AT&T name would be back in the US in its present form. They're looking at eating up the national landline business again. History repeats itself.

Who is "we"?
Could you explain why the carriers don't have equipment on all the same towers? Isn't the difficult part putting up the towers? I would think that once a tower is permitted and up, all the carriers would have their antennas on them, thereby sharing infrastructure costs.

shadyjay
01-10-2008, 09:00 PM
"We" is my company, who is a subcontractor for Verizon. We've done towers from Brattleboro to Newport and all points in between. And I used to do this work for a company in CT as well, where I dealt with towers from the Jersey Shore to the Maine coast.

Yes, the difficult part is definetely getting the towers permitted, between the Act250, various local and state, and of course, adjoining land owners. Since new tower installations are limited due to visual impact, they cannot be over a certain height, usually 10-20' above average tree height. This limits most of our towers to just over 100'. Given the thickness of woods in VT, and the hilly terrain, having a tower at a max height of 100' may not work for every carrier. For instance, since VZW puts up the tower, they get the top spot. Most of these towers are capable of supporting 2-3 additional carriers, but, lets say, AT&T may not be satisfied with the height of 80' on a tower, since that may put the antennaes in the trees, thus limiting the range.

Exceptions are those towers which are granfathered in, such as radio towers, tv towers, and such. Those are not required to "blend in" (ie- be pine trees) and are more likely to have extensions put in which extend the pole, usually by 10-20'. Such a cell company may go lower on the tower, as the tower may be some 200-300' tall. An example is the towers on Mt Mansfield and Ascutney. I was performing the work on Mt Mansfield on one warm 50 deg summit day in October - quite the installation up there. Nice drive up, too.

At these towers, equipment is generally confined to a pre-fab shelter building, which has all necessary equipment for the antennaes to function. Hookup to local phone and electric service is required, though phone line hookup can be replaced by microwaves, in the cases of mtn top towers. There is nothing saying that the carriers can replace their equipment. This has been done in the past, and I used to be a part of it in NJ, as antennaes and equipment were replaced to upgrade equipment, expand coverage, etc.

Within the past year, I have worked at Mt Snow, Stratton, Magic, Bromley, Okemo, Killington (town), and Stowe (base and top), as VZW realizes that a lot of their customers partake in winter sports recreation, whether for day trips, weekends, or weeklong trips. I have tried to get the flow going for service at the 'Bush/MRV but to no avail yet. Slapping up some antennaes/equipment on the Lincoln Peak tower I wouldn't think would be too hard and is a great extra source of income for the mountain. Plus, I'd have no problem strapping my work equipment to my back, with a board under my feet, while heading up Heaven's Gate to enjoy some great weekday pow pow, say, in Feb or Mar. But until the "island" issue is addressed, we're out of luck, as cell companies prefer to have their sites all connected with each other. As I have stated though, they could hop the mtn at AppGap and get back into the Champlain Valley and make a connection there. Who knows what'll happen.

HowieT2
01-10-2008, 09:43 PM
"We" is my company, who is a subcontractor for Verizon. We've done towers from Brattleboro to Newport and all points in between. And I used to do this work for a company in CT as well, where I dealt with towers from the Jersey Shore to the Maine coast.

Yes, the difficult part is definetely getting the towers permitted, between the Act250, various local and state, and of course, adjoining land owners. Since new tower installations are limited due to visual impact, they cannot be over a certain height, usually 10-20' above average tree height. This limits most of our towers to just over 100'. Given the thickness of woods in VT, and the hilly terrain, having a tower at a max height of 100' may not work for every carrier. For instance, since VZW puts up the tower, they get the top spot. Most of these towers are capable of supporting 2-3 additional carriers, but, lets say, AT&T may not be satisfied with the height of 80' on a tower, since that may put the antennaes in the trees, thus limiting the range.

Exceptions are those towers which are granfathered in, such as radio towers, tv towers, and such. Those are not required to "blend in" (ie- be pine trees) and are more likely to have extensions put in which extend the pole, usually by 10-20'. Such a cell company may go lower on the tower, as the tower may be some 200-300' tall. An example is the towers on Mt Mansfield and Ascutney. I was performing the work on Mt Mansfield on one warm 50 deg summit day in October - quite the installation up there. Nice drive up, too.

At these towers, equipment is generally confined to a pre-fab shelter building, which has all necessary equipment for the antennaes to function. Hookup to local phone and electric service is required, though phone line hookup can be replaced by microwaves, in the cases of mtn top towers. There is nothing saying that the carriers can replace their equipment. This has been done in the past, and I used to be a part of it in NJ, as antennaes and equipment were replaced to upgrade equipment, expand coverage, etc.

Within the past year, I have worked at Mt Snow, Stratton, Magic, Bromley, Okemo, Killington (town), and Stowe (base and top), as VZW realizes that a lot of their customers partake in winter sports recreation, whether for day trips, weekends, or weeklong trips. I have tried to get the flow going for service at the 'Bush/MRV but to no avail yet. Slapping up some antennaes/equipment on the Lincoln Peak tower I wouldn't think would be too hard and is a great extra source of income for the mountain. Plus, I'd have no problem strapping my work equipment to my back, with a board under my feet, while heading up Heaven's Gate to enjoy some great weekday pow pow, say, in Feb or Mar. But until the "island" issue is addressed, we're out of luck, as cell companies prefer to have their sites all connected with each other. As I have stated though, they could hop the mtn at AppGap and get back into the Champlain Valley and make a connection there. Who knows what'll happen.

Interesting, Thanks. I love those fake pine "I am not a cell tower" towers. Here in NY they dwarf the surrounding trees and look ridiculous.
Do you know if ATT is building out their "3G" network in VT or is that just ghostware?

Lostone
01-10-2008, 10:06 PM
Split radios and cell phones from Sugarbush ads thread.

Continue cell phone and radio conversation, here.

ski_resort_observer
01-10-2008, 10:41 PM
Split radios and cell phones from Sugarbush ads thread.

Continue cell phone and radio conversation, here.

contolling the flow
http://www.ses.srvusd.k12.ca.us/Images/traffic/traffic_cop_go_right_hr.jpg

sugarboarder
01-10-2008, 11:21 PM
Will someone please call me about this?

:shock:

djd66
01-11-2008, 08:16 AM
"We" is my company, who is a subcontractor for Verizon. We've done towers from Brattleboro to Newport and all points in between. And I used to do this work for a company in CT as well, where I dealt with towers from the Jersey Shore to the Maine coast.

Yes, the difficult part is definetely getting the towers permitted, between the Act250, various local and state, and of course, adjoining land owners. Since new tower installations are limited due to visual impact, they cannot be over a certain height, usually 10-20' above average tree height. This limits most of our towers to just over 100'. Given the thickness of woods in VT, and the hilly terrain, having a tower at a max height of 100' may not work for every carrier. For instance, since VZW puts up the tower, they get the top spot. Most of these towers are capable of supporting 2-3 additional carriers, but, lets say, AT&T may not be satisfied with the height of 80' on a tower, since that may put the antennaes in the trees, thus limiting the range.

Exceptions are those towers which are granfathered in, such as radio towers, tv towers, and such. Those are not required to "blend in" (ie- be pine trees) and are more likely to have extensions put in which extend the pole, usually by 10-20'. Such a cell company may go lower on the tower, as the tower may be some 200-300' tall. An example is the towers on Mt Mansfield and Ascutney. I was performing the work on Mt Mansfield on one warm 50 deg summit day in October - quite the installation up there. Nice drive up, too.

At these towers, equipment is generally confined to a pre-fab shelter building, which has all necessary equipment for the antennaes to function. Hookup to local phone and electric service is required, though phone line hookup can be replaced by microwaves, in the cases of mtn top towers. There is nothing saying that the carriers can replace their equipment. This has been done in the past, and I used to be a part of it in NJ, as antennaes and equipment were replaced to upgrade equipment, expand coverage, etc.

Within the past year, I have worked at Mt Snow, Stratton, Magic, Bromley, Okemo, Killington (town), and Stowe (base and top), as VZW realizes that a lot of their customers partake in winter sports recreation, whether for day trips, weekends, or weeklong trips. I have tried to get the flow going for service at the 'Bush/MRV but to no avail yet. Slapping up some antennaes/equipment on the Lincoln Peak tower I wouldn't think would be too hard and is a great extra source of income for the mountain. Plus, I'd have no problem strapping my work equipment to my back, with a board under my feet, while heading up Heaven's Gate to enjoy some great weekday pow pow, say, in Feb or Mar. But until the "island" issue is addressed, we're out of luck, as cell companies prefer to have their sites all connected with each other. As I have stated though, they could hop the mtn at AppGap and get back into the Champlain Valley and make a connection there. Who knows what'll happen.

Thanks for the information! Now I am totally confused. Bottom line - if Verizon takes over Unicel will I be able to say "I hear you now" on my Verizon cell phone while running my Massachusetts based business from the Chair (lift)???

As far as the monopoly issue - its a non-issue. The rates you pay for service w/ Verizon are competitive with all of the other phone companies (unicel included) I really don't see what the big deal is here.

Lostone
01-11-2008, 09:35 AM
1) As far as monopolies are concerned, when the deal is made, the rates may be comparable. But when you are the only game in town, you don't have to maintain the rates to be comparable. This can be felt in things like roaming charges.

Not saying it is an issue in this case, but history shows it to have happened many times.

B) IMNATHO despite everyone saying that the cell phone is necessary for emergencies and when they need to be in touch, most calls are pure crap, and do little but disturb those around the caller. I rode up with three people last week. In the course of a ride up Bravo, one of them made 4 different cell phone calls.

No kittens were saved by the use of that phone. :?

III) Sugarboarder... I'm dialing your number right now. :lol:

random_ski_guy
01-11-2008, 10:17 AM
1) As far as monopolies are concerned, when the deal is made, the rates may be comparable. But when you are the only game in town, you don't have to maintain the rates to be comparable. This can be felt in things like roaming charges.

Not saying it is an issue in this case, but history shows it to have happened many times.


I would agree you will see a less competitive mobile phone market with the Unicell take over for VT and other northern NE areas served by Unicell. However, is this really a surprise? When you severely limit the installation of towers, you create monopoly opportunities.

I know Lostone, who needs these stinking phones anyway.... well I do, but...

Lostone
01-11-2008, 10:55 AM
However, is this really a surprise? When you severely limit the installation of towers, you create monopoly opportunities.

The point is that this monopoly is being created the old fashioned way... buying the competition. Has nothing to do with limiting towers.

As for my statement about most of the calls being crap, do the test. Every time you use your cell phone, write down who you called and why. See if you really needed to make that call, then. I maintain most of them are... crap. :wink:

In fact, I'll bet that if you had to write down that info about all calls, you wouldn't make more than half of them. :roll:

djd66
01-11-2008, 11:56 AM
However, is this really a surprise? When you severely limit the installation of towers, you create monopoly opportunities.

The point is that this monopoly is being created the old fashioned way... buying the competition. Has nothing to do with limiting towers.

As for my statement about most of the calls being crap, do the test. Every time you use your cell phone, write down who you called and why. See if you really needed to make that call, then. I maintain most of them are... crap. :wink:

In fact, I'll bet that if you had to write down that info about all calls, you wouldn't make more than half of them. :roll:

In terms of there being a monopoly - isn't that what we have in the valley right now. There is only 1 company that owns the towers (Unicel). That is the reason Verizon bought Unicel - for the towers. Unicel does not own nearly as many towers as Verizon (nationwide). That being said if you are currently a Unicel customer and you become a Verizon customer w/ the merger - I would be willing to bet that your roaming costs nationwide would be less.

As far as the BS phone calls - I don't know about you or anyone else but 70% of the calls I take are business related. May sound like BS to someone else, but that is me running my business.

Bottom line, this is the way our society has gone - we are all reachable anytime anywhere. It is good and bad. Good because it means I can come up and get a day of skiing in while still "running" my business. Bad because it means I am always reachable and can never get away.

I am the kind of cell phone person that will leave a building or restaraunt to talk if a call should come. I don't take calls on the chair if i am with a person who I do not know. I try not to offend when my phone rings. If you are offended, sorry. :P

chuck
01-11-2008, 12:31 PM
Since I have caller ID, voice mail, it all goes to voice mail. then when I am not in a public place, i will listen and return calls, in private. No one cares what i want for dinner, nor should I subject anyone to my personal life. I come to sugarbush for the tranquility and peace. Yet having daughters who drive, it's good to have when someone conks out the car or gets stuck. As my daughters say, when all else fails, call dad and i feel better knowing that I may not be able to get to them, but can contact someone who can.

random_ski_guy
01-11-2008, 01:13 PM
[quote]However, is this really a surprise? When you severely limit the installation of towers, you create monopoly opportunities.


Bottomline, a single acquisition of a mobile phone company in much of the US would not cause a monopoly because those communities decided it would be best to have towers and towers allow competition. Most communities resist towers, but they get built in the end after taking some consideration from the local populance. To allow just a few or none at all is really just a self inflicted disservice. Higher costs for service and limited services.

ski_resort_observer
01-11-2008, 04:47 PM
B) IMNATHO despite everyone saying that the cell phone is necessary for emergencies and when they need to be in touch, most calls are pure crap, and do little but disturb those around the caller. I rode up with three people last week. In the course of a ride up Bravo, one of them made 4 different cell phone calls.

No kittens were saved by the use of that phone. :?

Wow...what got the bee in your bonnet...I like it! Yeah!

random_ski_guy
01-11-2008, 05:20 PM
As for my statement about most of the calls being crap, do the test. Every time you use your cell phone, write down who you called and why. See if you really needed to make that call, then. I maintain most of them are... crap. :wink:

In fact, I'll bet that if you had to write down that info about all calls, you wouldn't make more than half of them. :roll:

Well, if you were with me you would see (or hear) that almost all of my calls are business related and very brief. Personally I don't like to talk much on the phone. I prefer either email or face to face. When I ski, I bring my phone for business emergencies and to monitor email. Without such technology I would have to ski even less (yikes). Its difficult to find a good income wrapped into a strict 9-5 job. They really don't exist, they have been moved offshore. Even when on vacation I need to be connected. I need to monitor.

As for ugly cell phone etiquette, I don't care for those people either. When at the mtn I make an effort to be quiet, discreet and try to let others experience the outdoors without spotting a cell phone user. If I use my phone I try to hide unless I'm in the base lodge. Personally I would never take a call on a chair when riding with strangers, it can wait until I get to the top. That said, I don't think the solution is to limit cell phone usage by resisting new towers. The problem is not the phones, its the people using them. In time I have faith that the obtrusive cell phone user will go the way of neon paints and zinc oxide for the nose. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist.

Aside from serving a purpose for emergencies, cell phones are damn efficient and fun. I get more out of my day with the phone. We need to work on the rude people and then all will be fine (better coverage would be good too).

ski_resort_observer
01-11-2008, 06:03 PM
Aside from serving a purpose for emergencies, cell phones are damn efficient and fun. I get more out of my day with the phone. We need to work on the rude people and then all will be fine (better coverage would be good too).

Unfortunately with the poliferation of cell phones I think it will get alot worse before it gets better. Last time I was in Boston, Harvard Square, to be exact we came across a young couple who appeared down and out as they were sitting on a stoop with their caps held out for donations, as I was putting in a dollar the guy got a call on his cell phone... :shock:

In the church in the little town on the Maine coast I have a place they recently put a cell phone tower(?) in the steeple. I think that's a win, win as the church gets $1800 a month for the space used and people get better coverage. Can't we do more things like that?

I have no doubts that as mentioned the fake tree cell towers are improving but every time I am driving south on I89 and you go by that power plant(?) before the New London exit on the left there is one of those fake tree cell towers and it looks rediculous.

I don't have a cell phone, my wife and 3 kids do, the cell towers don't really bother me, fake tree or otherwise, neither do wind turbines. Actually I think wind turbines look cool. Bottom line, you have to adapt to get along in this ever changing world.....living on a quiet dirt road in Vermont does help tho :wink:

shadyjay
01-11-2008, 07:05 PM
The #1 concern we get regarding pine tree-looking towers is that people think of such examples as those in NH, MA, CT, etc and freak out. Those towers aren't designed by far to fit in with the landscape. The branches begin about 50' above the treeline so they look god aweful hideous. NH doesn't have any Act250 like VT does. While that extends the process of progress in VT, it does help to make sure we don't look like NH. NH gets even, however, with all of the towers along 91 south of WRJ that are on NH mountaintops, clearly viewed in VT. Bummer fur sure.

When I go down to visit family in CT, one of things that gets me right off the bat is the blatent display of advertising and cell towers, some cell towers now have a second right next to each other. In some towns in NW CT, we did put antennaes in church steeples. Also I've been noticing more electronic billboards down south, rather than the old kind.

We have done some church steeples up here in VT, and have also done antennaes on silos, sometimes with an extension of the silo - all a definite win-win, and an extra source of $$ for the farmer, espec during bad seasons. And regarding new pine tree monpole installations, believe me, we have extensive regulations we must follow to make sure they blend in as best as can be, such as balloon tests, tree heights, etc. Its a lot of work, but its interesting, and a good workout, espec with snow on the ground.

ski_resort_observer
01-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Thanks for the info...very interesting.

Strat
01-11-2008, 11:13 PM
Just a silly spelling sidenote:
The plural of antenna is "antennae" or "antennas." One is the original Latin plural, the other is the Anglicized form.
Thanks for reading :)

freeheel_skier
01-12-2008, 12:11 AM
Just a silly spelling sidenote:
The plural of antenna is "antennae" or "antennas." One is the original Latin plural, the other is the Anglicized form.
Thanks for reading :)


:shock: :roll:

Windshield Ski Bum
01-14-2008, 08:30 PM
There is a rumor going around that there will be a new antenna on the roof of the Birdcage at MRG.
Is there any truth to this ?? (wishful thinking)
Would that be their way through App Gap?