Wind Holds Part Deux

[mattlucas]

I've skied at SB my whole life always getting between 10-60 days a year, no mean feat for someone living in NYC. I haven't been able to buy a pass since I was eligible for a Student discount, but on Sunday I was PSYCHED when I called 583-SNOW to hear about 72 trails (especially) castlerock, fresh snow etc. So anyway, I show up, go up the bravo, crash down domino woods to get to castlerock for my real warmup on Middle Earth to see it CLOSED.

Seeing Castlerock closed was weird, because there hadn't been any wind on the bravo ridge which is usually as bad if not worse than the top of CR. (Does anyone remember how cold it used to be on the triple???) Anyway, conditions were awesome but it wasn't for me and my brother who came specifically to ski Castlerock.

I go to Customer Service to ask for a voucher, I had only had that one run up, that I totally understand that they aren't responsible for the wind but I came specifically to ski castlerock and that I'd like a ticket to come back another day since I was bummed and would rather go somewhere else.

They wouldn't give me one because

1 "They aren't in the 'game' of lying about their product anymore. They tell people what to expect and don't fluff up the reports etc"

this was bs because who would ever admit to fluffing up ski reports anyway. they're a business and they are obligated to tell everyone they have the best snow in VT etc.

2 "They had guys in the lot telling people about windholds, and the ticket salesmen also said there were windholds"

Again, not true. I had seen the report which said all lifts and runs open, ticket agent said nothing, no signs posted etc. Also, why is your ticket agent calling me a liar?

3 "You are the only person that has complained. If you would like you can now hike up and ski whatever you want."

First of all, I know I'm not the only person that complained. Someone complained right after me and they told him the same thing.

Hike and ski? that's great, I'm sure the snow is great, but I just paid $70 dollars for the privelage of having a machine get me to the top. If I wanted to hike I would have brought skins and AT stuff and gone to Camels Hump or Mansfield for FREE.

4 I asked if they could start spinning Valley House to spread out the crowd and to end the stupid traversing to ski the mall. Plus if the wind kicks in, the Valley house is nicely shielded from it.

They responded, why would I want to ride that if it takes longer and serves the same terrain. Besides, they're only running it Xmas and Holiday week.

Ok, well I just told you, I like the Valley house because


it's shielded from the wind
i don't have to traverse to get to the trails I want
no waiting in line


For full freight without north etc, I expected a little better. I'll spend my 70 bucks again later in the season, but if stuff like this (not the wind hold, but bad customer service where they make you feel like a jerk) keeps happening you can find me at Mad River, Stowe, Smugglers, or Jay. And although I had a great day of skiing with tons of woods powder etc, I thought my argument was reasonable and that they shouldn't have been so reluctant to give me a ticket for another day in exchange for the one that day. It wasn't a refund, they had my 70 bucks etc.


What do you guys think?


Oh p.s. I hiked to the top of the Gondola and the wind up there was crazy at about 2pm. Unloading chairs would have been totally dangerous, but if you release a report at 8:30 that says All Open you should honor that announcement to some extent.

[mattlucas]

oops, this looks like part 3, return of the windholds.

[ski_resort_observer]

Curious where you saw lifts " all open" at 8:30 when one lift(Super Bravo) spins at 8AM and the rest at 9AM. Are you saying they made up the windhold reason in not spinning Castlerock? I understand all your reasons for wanting the Valley lift running but to reduce cost and energy usage and the fact that the terrain is easily reached from Super Bravo it only runs as needed. Every time a lift is closed due to wind they will reopen it as soon as it is safe.

Today, all the lifts started out on windhold and to be honest I really thought they might not open at all. But by mid-morning the lower lifts were spinning and abit after that all the lifts were spinning again. Kudos to the crew for that! I was told by many the snow was awesome tho the cold was abit challenging and a real test to see if your goggles didn't fog up. Had an unusually high number of people come into the shop today seeking help in keeping their goggles from fogging up.

[mattlucas]

Sure,

I meant I saw all lifts open published on RSN TV and hanging in those faxes that hang in the lodge that get hung up everywhere at stores across the valley each morning. I really don't mean to infer that Sugarbush is responsible at all for acts of god...Just that a lift ticket when advertised that morning that lifts were running to the top should get you there if not that day, some other day.

[Lostone]

All lifts started open, on Sunday. That is when the lift/trail reports are printed.

When Heaven's Gate went on wind hold, we immediately started telling people. Did we tell everyone? Not possible. There was an announcement from the Guest Services desk for both lifts.

I rode up with people who said they got in a run at Castlerock. They wanted more, but understood windhold.

There was plenty of great skiing off Bravo, Gatehouse and North Lynx, Sunday.

You should have run the singles' line on Bravo. I didn't spend 3 minutes in any of the three runs I got off it. They ran it well, and filled every chair. I had only an hour, and got in 3 runs off Bravo. I could have possibly squeezed in a 4th, but that would have cut it too short. That is almost regular, cruising time, off that lift.

Sorry you didn't have a good time. I asked a lot of people, at the end of the day. The majority that had a "great" time was overwhelming.

[HowieT2]

I've skied at SB my whole life always getting between 10-60 days a year, no mean feat for someone living in NYC. I haven't been able to buy a pass since I was eligible for a Student discount, but on Sunday I was PSYCHED when I called 583-SNOW to hear about 72 trails (especially) castlerock, fresh snow etc. So anyway, I show up, go up the bravo, crash down domino woods to get to castlerock for my real warmup on Middle Earth to see it CLOSED.

Seeing Castlerock closed was weird, because there hadn't been any wind on the bravo ridge which is usually as bad if not worse than the top of CR. (Does anyone remember how cold it used to be on the triple???) Anyway, conditions were awesome but it wasn't for me and my brother who came specifically to ski Castlerock.

I go to Customer Service to ask for a voucher, I had only had that one run up, that I totally understand that they aren't responsible for the wind but I came specifically to ski castlerock and that I'd like a ticket to come back another day since I was bummed and would rather go somewhere else.

They wouldn't give me one because

1 "They aren't in the 'game' of lying about their product anymore. They tell people what to expect and don't fluff up the reports etc"

this was bs because who would ever admit to fluffing up ski reports anyway. they're a business and they are obligated to tell everyone they have the best snow in VT etc.

2 "They had guys in the lot telling people about windholds, and the ticket salesmen also said there were windholds"

Again, not true. I had seen the report which said all lifts and runs open, ticket agent said nothing, no signs posted etc. Also, why is your ticket agent calling me a liar?

3 "You are the only person that has complained. If you would like you can now hike up and ski whatever you want."

First of all, I know I'm not the only person that complained. Someone complained right after me and they told him the same thing.

Hike and ski? that's great, I'm sure the snow is great, but I just paid $70 dollars for the privelage of having a machine get me to the top. If I wanted to hike I would have brought skins and AT stuff and gone to Camels Hump or Mansfield for FREE.

4 I asked if they could start spinning Valley House to spread out the crowd and to end the stupid traversing to ski the mall. Plus if the wind kicks in, the Valley house is nicely shielded from it.

They responded, why would I want to ride that if it takes longer and serves the same terrain. Besides, they're only running it Xmas and Holiday week.

Ok, well I just told you, I like the Valley house because


it's shielded from the wind
i don't have to traverse to get to the trails I want
no waiting in line


For full freight without north etc, I expected a little better. I'll spend my 70 bucks again later in the season, but if stuff like this (not the wind hold, but bad customer service where they make you feel like a jerk) keeps happening you can find me at Mad River, Stowe, Smugglers, or Jay. And although I had a great day of skiing with tons of woods powder etc, I thought my argument was reasonable and that they shouldn't have been so reluctant to give me a ticket for another day in exchange for the one that day. It wasn't a refund, they had my 70 bucks etc.


What do you guys think?


Oh p.s. I hiked to the top of the Gondola and the wind up there was crazy at about 2pm. Unloading chairs would have been totally dangerous, but if you release a report at 8:30 that says All Open you should honor that announcement to some extent.

Although windholds are frustrating I don't see the sense in blaming the Mt. Ops people for not giving you a voucher. However, when the HG and CR lifts are on windhold on a weekend or holiday, I don't think it is too much to ask to get the VH running. Not being able to run a lift because it is unsafe due to wind is unavoidable. Standing in a lift line at the Super Bravo while the VH double lies dormant on a weekend/holiday is not right.

[chuck]

One of the great features/benefits at Sugarbush is the active involvement of upper mgt. Win is on the mountain just about every day (thank you Win). I have been there when the crowds are unruly or certain lifts are on wind hold, and he has gotten The ole Valley house chair up and running, very quickly. I do believe this chair has already been inspected, and is waiting for the right moment to fire up.

[boze]

One of the great features/benefits at Sugarbush is the active involvement of upper mgt. Win is on the mountain just about every day (thank you Win). I have been there when the crowds are unruly or certain lifts are on wind hold, and he has gotten The ole Valley house chair up and running, very quickly. I do believe this chair has already been inspected, and is waiting for the right moment to fire up.

With respect, that "right moment" was this past Sunday. Would have helped disperse the skiers, from the lift lines and across the fabulously pimped-out terrain.

[win]

The plan for Valley House is to run it on Saturdays and Holiday weeks when the mountain is the busiest. It is cleared and ready to go every day so that if we have a mechanical issue that can not be fixed quickly or there is windhold on Bravo we can spin it. While Valley House is well protected from the wind down low, the upper two tower are exposed to a Northwest wind and because the chair is light, it can actually be more vulnerable than Bravo by certain winds. This is true also of the Village lifts.

Windholds are solely in the judgment of our lift mechanics and are always for the safety of out guests. No one - including me - second guesses their judgment. We will try to keep any and all lifts open and will run them more slowly at times, but when our lift mechanics feel that conditions are not safe, they call in a windhold. On Sunday, we had all lifts going at the start of the day, but the wind picked up as the day progressed. We do update the web asap and try to keep the snow phone current as well and emails are sent from our dispatch to all our ares on the mountain as well. TV 12 and RSN in no owned by us, so I can not guarantee the accuracy there although they do receive a feed from our website.

I was out all day Sunday and while the top lifts were closed, we did allow hiking and their was superb skiing for all levels of ability that day, and I would not have given out a voucher had I been asked. If Bravo, Gate House were down that would have been a different story.

[boze]

We were 5th group in line at HG chair [CORRECTION: CR chair], 853a and lift ops thee told all of us in line that it was on windhold. Did not see anyone get on.

That being said, the conditions were darn fabulous. Hit a tons of untracked in places I'd not been to in quite some time, since we had to 'make do' with all that powder on the lower 1/2 of the mountain. :wink:


I'm just bummed we did not stick it out with the Monday windholds. Hit MRG after waiting at SB lodge until 9:20a. Conditions at MRG were pretty good (OK pretty great considering it's late Fall), but you really had to hunt for any untracked pow. And much of the exposed terrain had some serious wind packing going on. Finally found some lighter powder in the woods off Partridge & Slalom. Just not as delicious as the kind we had dined on all Sat & Sun at Sugarbush. :cry:

[mattlucas]

Win, apologies for ranting so dramatically last night.

I had a great time, and it would have been my loss had I not skied...But why not give someone a voucher if they're upset and haven't skied on the days ticket? It wasn't like I was asking to ski BOTH days or even for a full refund. A bad interaction with customer service is worth more than the ticket if that person doesn't come back. That won't be me, but I was pretty livid when they told me that Castlerock isn't upper mountain and that I was the ONLY person who said something.

It really felt like they were trying to be argumentative, more than toeing a company line of "Sorry bro, there's just nothing we can do. It isn't our policy to issue vouchers."

And when someone is arguing by saying things that are just false, it makes it that much worse.

[HowieT2]

We were 5th group in line at HG chair, 853a and lift ops thee told all of us in line that it was on windhold. Did not see anyone get on.

That being said, the conditions were darn fabulous. Hit a tons of untracked in places I'd not been to in quite some time, since we had to 'make do' with all that powder on the lower 1/2 of the mountain. :wink:


I'm just bummed we did not stick it out with the Monday windholds. Hit MRG after waiting at SB lodge until 9:20a. Conditions at MRG were pretty good (OK pretty great considering it's late Fall), but you really had to hunt for any untracked pow. And much of the exposed terrain had some serious wind packing going on. Finally found some lighter powder in the woods off Partridge & Slalom. Just not as delicious as the kind we had dined on all Sat & Sun at Sugarbush. :cry:

That was the CR chair, bud.

[summitchallenger]

Did you look at the forecast before coming up to SB? They were forecasting some serious winds....

[madhavok]

Mattlucas - I don't know what the situation was on Sunday, so I can’t say whether or not you should have been given a voucher but at the very least it sounds like the customer service could have handled things in a more polite manner. Even a dedicated Sugarbush skier like myself (20+ years) ran into a few unpleasant situations last year. Not going into great detail but I can recall 3 different events last year where either a parking attendant, valet guy or a ski instructor was just acting ridiculous. And another time a lift op was just creating an unsafe situation (being he was in the lift house flirting with a female lift op, instead of being out cleaning the chairs like he should have been). All things annoyed me, but I just let them go and enjoy my skiing.

My advice to you is just not to let the small crap aggravate you. No matter what you do or where you go you’ll run into these type of things you just need to blow them off. Hey you didn’t get to ski castle rock even though Sugarbush said it was 100% open. You tried to get a voucher and were shot down. Its too bad, but you still got to spend Sunday skiing Sugarbush and even if it was just the lower mountain, it still beats my Sunday.

[othripper]

Dude,

If you didn't have a great time skiing last Sunday, it really is your problem.

Mike

[mattlucas]

i had a great time, so that wasn't my problem. The skiing was great for sure. really, i had an awesome weekend and after a day in brooklyn noise and traffic I miss Vermont already. So it wasn't a big deal and I'll just try to let it roll off me a little easier next time. With any luck we'll have plenty more great powder days and the lifts will spin till 4 (or longer, Win!).

Have good holidays and enjoy the skiing everyone.

[CapeSkiGuy]

Seems like a good opportunity to give props to some unsung heroes at SB...the lift mechanics. I have seen it from behind the scenes for the first time this year, and all of them are fantastic. If these guys say it's a wind hold, it is something I will accept as an article of faith. No questions. I believe they are the best in the business, and here's to 'em. The lift spins when they say so because it keeps us all from needing evac, or worse.

[BushMogulMaster]

Seems like a good opportunity to give props to some unsung heroes at SB...the lift mechanics. I have seen it from behind the scenes for the first time this year, and all of them are fantastic. If these guys say it's a wind hold, it is something I will accept as an article of faith. No questions. I believe they are the best in the business, and here's to 'em. The lift spins when they say so because it keeps us all from needing evac, or worse.

Cheers to that! Kelly runs a good show, methinks. I've witnessed her abilities firsthand on multiple ocassions, and would trust her with anything lift-related! Jason does a heck of a job over at ME as well. Some good folks there in lift maintenance. Definitely don't get the public credit that they deserve.