Grooming... grrr!

[BushMogulMaster]

Groomers hit 27 trails overnight, including a rarely groomed Castlerock Run.

Why??? Why, I say???

That's twice this year for C-Rock run.

Since February, I've noticed quite an increase in grooming of typical bump trails, including (but not limited to) FIS, Lower FIS, Exterminator, Encore, Semi-Tough, Twist, Stein's, Ripcord, etc. What gives? I have a pretty significant knowledge of grooming operations and snow surfaces, and I understand that there have been occasions when grooming a bump run has been necessary. But this year, it's been getting out of hand. FIS, Exterminator, and Encore were all completely ruined the first time they were groomed. FIS never recovered (skiers' right held the only decent line), Exterm took over a month to come back, and Encore was crap since it was groomed. Lower FIS wasn't the same, and Semi-Tough never recovered. In most cases, there was not a valid reason (dangerously icy bumps, a huge dump in the forecast, etc.) to groom these trails. I just don't understand it.

I'm sure some will disagree, but from my experience, grooming a bump run (especially when the snow is frozen-granular) is the best way to ruin it unless a large snowfall is expected (and 12" isn't large... I mean 18+").


Now... I don't just want to be another complaining idiot... the snow is amazing right now, and I can't wait for another powder day Thursday/Friday. I'm very pleased with 95% of this season's skiing experience at the Bush. I'm quite pleased with much of what Win etc. have accomplished. Now it's just the little things that I'm picking apart :wink:

[noski]

Now... I don't just want to be another complaining idiot... What kind of idiot would you rather be? :wink:

[HowieT2]

Groomers hit 27 trails overnight, including a rarely groomed Castlerock Run.

Why??? Why, I say???

That's twice this year for C-Rock run.

Since February, I've noticed quite an increase in grooming of typical bump trails, including (but not limited to) FIS, Lower FIS, Exterminator, Encore, Semi-Tough, Twist, Stein's, Ripcord, etc. What gives? I have a pretty significant knowledge of grooming operations and snow surfaces, and I understand that there have been occasions when grooming a bump run has been necessary. But this year, it's been getting out of hand. FIS, Exterminator, and Encore were all completely ruined the first time they were groomed. FIS never recovered (skiers' right held the only decent line), Exterm took over a month to come back, and Encore was crap since it was groomed. Lower FIS wasn't the same, and Semi-Tough never recovered. In most cases, there was not a valid reason (dangerously icy bumps, a huge dump in the forecast, etc.) to groom these trails. I just don't understand it.

I'm sure some will disagree, but from my experience, grooming a bump run (especially when the snow is frozen-granular) is the best way to ruin it unless a large snowfall is expected (and 12" isn't large... I mean 18+").


Now... I don't just want to be another complaining idiot... the snow is amazing right now, and I can't wait for another powder day Thursday/Friday. I'm very pleased with 95% of this season's skiing experience at the Bush. I'm quite pleased with much of what Win etc. have accomplished. Now it's just the little things that I'm picking apart :wink:


I don't know enough to constructively comment on this issue, but it is apparent that you know what you are talking about (whether you are right is a different issue) and you shouldn't be shy about airing your opinions because of what transpired with the complaining some weeks ago. I will say that Moonshine was groomed recently and it was great to ski it on sunday and Monday.

[gone.skiing]

Since you specifically mention Castlerock... First time it was groomed was also before significant snow storm. Right after that storm it was awesome. I also skied it a bunch since then and did not hear any complaints about it.

Another reason they may have done it could be to give a chance to ski the chair to peeps who otherwise would not go.

[asland]

[quote=www.sugarbush.com]Since February, I've noticed quite an increase in grooming of typical bump trails, including (but not limited to) FIS, Lower FIS, Exterminator, Encore, Semi-Tough, Twist, Stein's, Ripcord, etc. What gives? I have a pretty significant knowledge of grooming operations and snow surfaces, and I understand that there have been occasions when grooming a bump run has been necessary. But this year, it's been getting out of hand.
I'm sure some will disagree, but from my experience, grooming a bump run (especially when the snow is frozen-granular) is the best way to ruin it unless a large snowfall is expected (and 12" isn't large... I mean 18+").

I love skiing a great line of soft corn bumps but...

This past weekend the best skiing was on trails that were relatively flattened out and had a bunch of fresh pow on top (liftline on castlerock and ripcord). You could really let it rip big mountain gs style turns. close to bowl type skiing. Those trails that had bumps on it (paradise, castlerock...) had really hard bumps underneath lots of good snow. Skiiers really had to slow down and pick there way through. With another storm on it's way, even a small storm, I think it's a good strategy to groom.

side benefits -

1. more evenly spread snow, lets say 18" base is has better staying power when it gets warm than a bumped up trail that has 30" at the bumps and only 12" between the bumps. The 12" melts fast and you start getting brown spots.

2. when it's cold at night and in the day (as it's been) those bumps never get soft.

3. rant warning :evil: - plus all those guys and gals skiing the super fat powder skis, because it's trendy, end up sliding into the bumps sideways, squaring them off, and ruining the flow and the line for everyone else. For christ sake get a little shape in your eastern ski for everyone else's sake. That way the mt can avoid having to groom the ruined bump run to start all over.

so, in moderation a good grooming can be a good thing.

asland

[BushMogulMaster]

[quote=www.sugarbush.com]Since February, I've noticed quite an increase in grooming of typical bump trails, including (but not limited to) FIS, Lower FIS, Exterminator, Encore, Semi-Tough, Twist, Stein's, Ripcord, etc. What gives? I have a pretty significant knowledge of grooming operations and snow surfaces, and I understand that there have been occasions when grooming a bump run has been necessary. But this year, it's been getting out of hand.
I'm sure some will disagree, but from my experience, grooming a bump run (especially when the snow is frozen-granular) is the best way to ruin it unless a large snowfall is expected (and 12" isn't large... I mean 18+").

I love skiing a great line of soft corn bumps but...

This past weekend the best skiing was on trails that were relatively flattened out and had a bunch of fresh pow on top (liftline on castlerock and ripcord). You could really let it rip big mountain gs style turns. close to bowl type skiing. Those trails that had bumps on it (paradise, castlerock...) had really hard bumps underneath lots of good snow. Skiiers really had to slow down and pick there way through. With another storm on it's way, even a small storm, I think it's a good strategy to groom.

side benefits -

1. more evenly spread snow, lets say 18" base is has better staying power when it gets warm than a bumped up trail that has 30" at the bumps and only 12" between the bumps. The 12" melts fast and you start getting brown spots.

2. when it's cold at night and in the day (as it's been) those bumps never get soft.

3. rant warning :evil: - plus all those guys and gals skiing the super fat powder skis, because it's trendy, end up sliding into the bumps sideways, squaring them off, and ruining the flow and the line for everyone else. For christ sake get a little shape in your eastern ski for everyone else's sake. That way the mt can avoid having to groom the ruined bump run to start all over.

so, in moderation a good grooming can be a good thing.

asland


I definitely see your point, and understand everything that you've said. However, as I alluded to earlier, I am not only referring to this particular grooming. It just rekindled my frustration with excess grooming. There are definitely times when a good grooming is necessary, but it's been overdone this year.

As far as being able to rip GS turns... that's not my thing anyway. I'll take semi-hard bumps with powder on top any day over GS turns! And, by the way, I ski on bump skis which are practically straight. So your comment about shaped skis is a bit off base :wink:

:D

[Plowboy]

I think it's the very short shaped skis that are ruining the bumps. :P :P :P my .02

[Strat]

I think it's snowboards that are ruining the bumps... that said, it's a fun challenge for me and my single-planker brethren... took Paradise for the first time this weekend... did I unnecessarily smack a few bumps? Mmhmm... but at the same time I was working on my technique and trying to be more fluid...

Damn crazy trail. Woods off to the left are nutso also.

[MntMan4Bush]

Hmm. I've got nice fat powder skis that I absolutely love and I definitely do not flatten bumps. As BMM pointed out good bump skis don't have much shape, but are straighter. Mine just happen to be fatter as well where bump skis are more pinners. Bottom line I'm pretty sure, without bragging too much, that I ski bumps pretty well and do little to destroy them. It's less to do with the skis (although as Plowboy pointed out really short skis do have some effect) and more to do with the skier/boarder. If your technique is to treat bumps like you're in a groomer you're going to do some damage.

As far as opinion about this thread I will say that Exterminator did take a long time to recover after it got chomped and I've avoided Encore since then as well. I don't know if they ever groomed skiers left on Cliffs. If they did then it recovered nicely. If not well then it speaks for itself.

[asland]

I definitely see your point, and understand everything that you've said. However, as I alluded to earlier, I am not only referring to this particular grooming. It just rekindled my frustration with excess grooming. There are definitely times when a good grooming is necessary, but it's been overdone this year.

As far as being able to rip GS turns... that's not my thing anyway. I'll take semi-hard bumps with powder on top any day over GS turns! And, by the way, I ski on bump skis which are practically straight. So your comment about shaped skis is a bit off base :wink:
:D

With the exeption of the lead up to these spring storms I do see your point about overgrooming throughout the year, especially mid winter. When it has been consistently cold and snowing as it has been this winter, after mid january, there's no real reason to groom out stuff mid winter.

My earlier rant about super fats, could easily go for short shaped, and snowboarders as well. I guess what I should rant about is that there seems to be a culture creeping into skiing these days where everyone feels they need to ski the really hard trails. Is it the TGR, Warren Miller, Meathead...Films that glorify this? Not sure, but there seems to be more and more intermediates creeping onto advanced trails.

To each there own ... push yourself...

But once they are there on really wide skis with no shape (or their short skiis with lots of shape, or big fat snow boards that are hard to get up on edge) it's a recipe for disaster. They hack the shit out of the trail by sliding down the entire trail or squaring into bumps. Soon, it starts getting so the bumps are so squared off from people sliding into them or over them. The trail turns into such a disaster Sugarbush then has to groom out what should be a great bump trail with lines that just... tick tock tick tock.

I slightly digress... back to why is that sugarbush is overgrooming...

[AngryJohnny]

Speaking of failed grooming ops...what happend over at Domino? A couple of weeks ago there was a huge trench dug into it and they groomed it into a icy trap of death!
Asland...The health of moguls is dependent on a skiers/boarders ability to ski vertically and to hit the bumps on the frontside quarters and up and not on the type of ski or board.

[gone.skiing]

asland, should not the expert such as yourself be able to stay out of those troughs anyway? Anybody can ski a perfectly manicured bump line.

[asland]

asland, should not the expert such as yourself be able to stay out of those troughs anyway? Anybody can ski a perfectly manicured bump line.

First of all, screw you. Second of all, how much more fun is that perfect line. The perfect trail conditions is what this the underlying theme of this thread has been about.



Asland...The health of moguls is dependent on a skiers/boarders ability to ski vertically and to hit the bumps on the frontside quarters and up and not on the type of ski or board.

Of course ability can overcome but proper equipment for the conditions play a role as well. Ski companies have been selling this concept for as long as skis have been around. Recently, ski companies have just duped a large population into buying equipment that is not the best for eastern conditions most of the time.

[Lostone]

Moderator note: Please refrain from personal attacks. :?

Thanx for your support. 8)

[AngryJohnny]

"Bird dog'em Frank!"

[BushMogulMaster]

As far as opinion about this thread I will say that Exterminator did take a long time to recover after it got chomped and I've avoided Encore since then as well. I don't know if they ever groomed skiers left on Cliffs. If they did then it recovered nicely. If not well then it speaks for itself.

Skiers' left on Cliffs wasn't groomed since the first time it bumped, and is a perfect example. Same with FIS. The one good line on skiers' left was never groomed. The best lines later on Exterm were far skiers' right, and they had never been groomed. I think my point is made and backed up by these examples.

The best bumps at ME have been on Tumbler, skiers' left Cliffs, Upper Bravo, Hammerhead, and Black Diamond, IMO. None of these trails were ever groomed. Encore was great also until it was groomed. Exterm needed groomed early in the season, and it was and it recovered. But the more recent groomings have done nothing but ruined it. FIS was groomed before a forecasted snowstorm that never happened, and it was reduced to frozen granular/chalky pp for months.

Anyways.............. big snow tomorrow! :D

[MntMan4Bush]

Was Upper Bravo groomed a few weeks ago. The weekend of Mogul Logic the bumps seemed short to non-existant.

With all fairness the bumps on Exterminator are ALWAYS best on the skiers right. The bumps on that trail form the same every year. It's almost as if they are pre-molded into the ground itself. You could start naming them and having Birthday parties for them.

I couldn't agree more though that the grooming may have been a bit more aggressive then necessary, but of course maybe the ends justify the means. I mean look at the condition the mountain as a whole is? Granted new snow has helped, but overall it maintained snow all around pretty well considering the conditions pre-storm. I love bumps so I often am quick to judge when they are missing, but if longevity is your goal SB did a pretty solid job. Maybe though considering when they plan on closing the CR grooming was overkill.

[MntMan4Bush]

Asland - Have you ever skied fat skis? I admit my Pocket Rockets were a bit much for out here, but I loved the way they felt so I kept fat with Scratch BCs when the time came to get new ones. I had no problem adjusting to them and enjoyed skiing on them even in the bumps. You may be right that they're not for everyone, but I like them and when I head out west I don't need a second set of sticks to enjoy the terrain out there either. Try a pair of Rockets or whatever they are called now. You may be surprised even in the groomers and bumps.

[asland]

Asland - Have you ever skied fat skis? I admit my Pocket Rockets were a bit much for out here, but I loved the way they felt so I kept fat with Scratch BCs when the time came to get new ones. I had no problem adjusting to them and enjoyed skiing on them even in the bumps. You may be right that they're not for everyone, but I like them and when I head out west I don't need a second set of sticks to enjoy the terrain out there either. Try a pair of Rockets or whatever they are called now. You may be surprised even in the groomers and bumps.

thanks, are they the solomon guns now? I'll have to give them a shot. I have a friend who skis them and has a lot of good to say about them only problem is they wobble on the flat-ish traverses. In the pow he floats. I have a pair of mantra's which I'll use for some of the big dumps out here or out west. Mainly, I ski my head IM85 out here but am starting to look for a new ski.

I really don't want to hijack this thread anymore than I already have (sorry) so I am going to step away from the fat ski argument and pass it back over to overgrooming...

[MntMan4Bush]

I won't hijack much further either, but I'll comment quickly. The Rockets (1080 Guns now you're right) did slap a bit on groomers while going fast and they were a bit heavy. Felt like they were made of concrete in the bumps, but I still loved them. Changed the way I ski. My new ones are Rossi Scratch Sprayer BCs which are the Scratch BC skis, but a bit thinner. They handle great in everything here and out west. Fat in pow and light (relatively speaking) and flexible in the bumps.

Sorry for the hijacking as well. We can now resume with our normally scheduled broadcast about grooming bumps.

[BushMogulMaster]

And now Twist has been groomed. Sacrilege, I say! :evil: :x :x :evil: :evil: :x :x :evil: :evil: :x :x :evil: :x

[gone.skiing]

Got my fat skis ready! :D

[Tin Woodsman]

And now Twist has been groomed. Sacrilege, I say! :evil: :x :x :evil: :evil: :x :x :evil: :evil: :x :x :evil: :x

Actually, I thought the bumps on Twist were a little solid last weekend. My least favorite run of the weekend (granted, it was a pretty high bar). Given the snow today and in the forecast, I don't think it's that big a deal.

[BushMogulMaster]

And now Twist has been groomed. Sacrilege, I say! :evil: :x :x :evil: :evil: :x :x :evil: :evil: :x :x :evil: :x

Actually, I thought the bumps on Twist were a little solid last weekend. My least favorite run of the weekend (granted, it was a pretty high bar). Given the snow today and in the forecast, I don't think it's that big a deal.

You definitely skied a different Twist than I did! It was by far the best run on the mountain Sunday. I skied it yesterday, and the bumps weren't very big, but they were soft and skiing pretty nicely. It just needed some more traffic.

But hopefully with the snow, enough people will ski it tomorrow and Saturday to bump it up again.

[beelze]

I think it's snowboards that are ruining the bumps... that said, it's a fun challenge for me and my single-planker brethren... took Paradise for the first time this weekend... did I unnecessarily smack a few bumps? Mmhmm... but at the same time I was working on my technique and trying to be more fluid...

Damn crazy trail. Woods off to the left are nutso also.

Ruin them? Hardly. Take a look at some of the supposed 'good' skiiers on these runs. turn..traverse..turn...traverse..stop. As to Castlerock run - why are there even bumps up there? Its hardly steep enough to warrant the number it has. Oh wait.. its those 'good' skiiers again.

For every accusation of a boarder "ruining" something on the mountain I can point to at least two skiiers doing the same, or to put it another way, doing something I think spoils things. My understanding is MRG never/rarely grooms anything so if its that big an issue to the bumpmeisters, they have an alternative.

As to why Bush has groomed some of these trails - beyond the obvious of snow/ice conditions - have you stopped to consider that bump skiiers/boarders don't own the mountain? That maybe the Bush wants people who don't normally do bumps to be able to go on that trail once in a while? Oh the sky is falling - they groomed Twist with a week left in the season! Bump skiiers 'own' the runs no more or less than the carvers do.

[saabski]

beelze wrote:
As to why Bush has groomed some of these trails - beyond the obvious of snow/ice conditions - have you stopped to consider that bump skiiers/boarders don't own the mountain? That maybe the Bush wants people who don't normally do bumps to be able to go on that trail once in a while? Oh the sky is falling - they groomed Twist with a week left in the season! Bump skiiers 'own' the runs no more or less than the carvers do.

Ditto - I wish I COULD ski bumps like I used to BUT with 2 TKR's on the horizon; that is off the table. And it seems that there is some excellent terrain that has not been groomed all season; so everyone should be HAPPY!!!!!! I wish I could take next week off to ski, but at this time of year the darn job (which funds my fun and pays my bills!) is too amped up to get away more than
weekends - even that meets with some resistance.

[MntMan4Bush]

It has been considered and quickly disregarded. That's right. I said it. I have a blatent disregard for other people's wants and concerns when I'm on the mountain. It's called ski-i-cidus and it's a very rare and serious condition.

On a serious note I, as a skier, would agree that there are quite a few skiers out there who "ruin" bump runs. Let's not get into a discussion about boarders in bumps. I don't think that will go any where productive so lets conceed that both parties can destroy bumps. Ok now back to grooming. There are certain trails that are set up for bump runs and that's why they're not normally groomed. Twist happens to be one of them, as does Maul, Ripcord and Spillsville. There are plenty of other groomers out there and other terrain to ski. I think BMM (and I) wonder why they would touch some of the few remaining good bump runs when there are plenty of other trails for people who don't like bumps to ski. It's not like we're asking them to bump up every trail on the mountain, but leave some trails for people who like bumps (and there are a few of us) so we have something. Do you think groomer skiing people own the mountain. Of course not. No one does. There has to be enough varied terrain for everyone so when one of our trails is "out of order" we aren't happy. If more of the groomers started geting bumped up I'm sure you'd mention something.

Lastly steepness doesn't necesarily equate to bumps. Look at Twist which we're talking about. It has a moderate pitch, probably about the same as CR probably less. It has to do with the fact that it's very narrow so instead of making large sweeping turns as someone might on snowball people tend to make shorter turns. Add to that the fact it is rarely groomed and those bumps that started small now start forming up nicely and continue to grow.

[Lostone]

As to Castlerock run - why are there even bumps up there? Its hardly steep enough to warrant the number it has.

HUH??? :shock: Have you actually been up there? I've never heard anyone say that Castlerock Run was not steep enough to be a real bump trail.

As for your finishing point, tho, I agree. When they groomed Stein's, there were more people on that trail in the first two hours than had been there in many days. And that includes many very good bump skiers, who just wanted to blast down, doing GS turns.

[Mike_451]

Castlerock is not upper intermediate cruising terrain

[gone.skiing]

On the flip side I would guess that there is a good number of nicely bumped trails at the moment, so you should not really miss Twist that much. It is not like they flattened last remaining bump trail.

[BushMogulMaster]

Thanks for the backup, MtnMan



As to why Bush has groomed some of these trails - beyond the obvious of snow/ice conditions - have you stopped to consider that bump skiiers/boarders don't own the mountain? That maybe the Bush wants people who don't normally do bumps to be able to go on that trail once in a while? Oh the sky is falling - they groomed Twist with a week left in the season! Bump skiiers 'own' the runs no more or less than the carvers do.


Obviously, you're taking this way too personally. You seem offended, and there's no reason for it. Your tone is condescending, and impolite. I simply ask that there be a handful of good bump runs. Is that too much to ask? You guys tell me to go to MRG, then I tell you to go to Stratton or Okemo. How does that sound?

Let's consider the ratio of bump runs to groomed runs. Right now, there are about 10 bump runs, and about 65 groomed runs. My point is made.

So it sounds to me like the carvers are getting the better deal here. You cannot deny it. Maybe I should demand equality and ask for a 50/50 split.

Why is it that no matter what someone says on this forum anymore, someone feels it necessary to attack that opinion, point-of-view, comment, or decision... and generally not in a respectful manner? I feel inclined to quit expressing my opinions. Everyone says that's what the forum is for, but I feel like no matter what I (or anyone else) have to say, it will be attacked. I'm tired of it. :roll:

[Tin Woodsman]

And now Twist has been groomed. Sacrilege, I say! :evil: :x :x :evil: :evil: :x :x :evil: :evil: :x :x :evil: :x

Actually, I thought the bumps on Twist were a little solid last weekend. My least favorite run of the weekend (granted, it was a pretty high bar). Given the snow today and in the forecast, I don't think it's that big a deal.

You definitely skied a different Twist than I did! It was by far the best run on the mountain Sunday. I skied it yesterday, and the bumps weren't very big, but they were soft and skiing pretty nicely. It just needed some more traffic.

But hopefully with the snow, enough people will ski it tomorrow and Saturday to bump it up again.

Uh, no. That's where you're wrong. It might have been the best run for you, but that's entirely subjective. Bumps seem to be your skiing religion, and that's cool. But don't think everyone, or even most people, share your view. I viewed my time on Twist as a mistake and quickly bailed into the woods. Different strokes for different folks.

[BushMogulMaster]

Uh, no. That's where you're wrong. It might have been the best run for you, but that's entirely subjective. Bumps seem to be your skiing religion, and that's cool. But don't think everyone, or even most people, share your view. I viewed my time on Twist as a mistake and quickly bailed into the woods. Different strokes for different folks.

I agree for sure... I was just saying that the bumps weren't icy and hard, they were good. It was MY run of the day. Sure, it didn't have to be yours. I'm just saying it was not in need of a groom.

[gone.skiing]

65 groomed trails... Are you including pushover, jester and downspout into this number? We should probably compare apples to apples and count trails like Organgrinder and spring fling for comparison purposes.

[BushMogulMaster]

65 groomed trails... Are you including pushover, jester and downspout into this number? We should probably compare apples to apples and count trails like Organgrinder and spring fling for comparison purposes.

Okay, here's the list of decent groomed trails:

Snowball
Twist (now)
Moonshine (now)
Spring Fling
Racer's Edge
Jester (yes, it should count for heaven's sake... it's a decent trail)
Organgrinder
Lower Organgrinder
Birdland
Murphy's Glade
Downspout
Lower Jester
Birch Run
Sunrise (most of the time)
Troll Road
Cotillion (sometimes)
Sleeper
Hot Shot
Waterfall

That's 19 very good (IMO) cruising/carving trails. I left out the greens, and the short blues, and the irrelevant "lowers."

How about good bump trails?

Paradise
Spillsville
The Mall
Stein's
Liftline
Middle Earth
Ripcord (often)
C-Rock (sometimes)
Twist (sometimes)
Moonshine (sometimes)
Sunrise (rarely, skiers' right)
Morningstar (sometimes)

That's 6 definite, 1 often, 4 sometimes, and 1 rarely. 12 total. Carvers still win.

I want my bumps! :wink:

[gone.skiing]

Isn't there Lower Paradise, Lower Ripcord, Lower Lift Line... :-) And how about all the woods? Those have bumps too. I demand a recount...

[MntMan4Bush]

Well then how about Upper and Lower Panorama? Oh wait that's North. :wink: I think those were both counted at the beginning of the year when we had the most trails open in the East. Thought it was funny then. Still funny now.

(And yes I know there is no Upper and Lower)

[BushMogulMaster]

Isn't there Lower Paradise, Lower Ripcord, Lower Lift Line... :-) And how about all the woods? Those have bumps too. I demand a recount...

:lol:

I think not. :wink:

[Strat]

I think it's snowboards that are ruining the bumps... that said, it's a fun challenge for me and my single-planker brethren... took Paradise for the first time this weekend... did I unnecessarily smack a few bumps? Mmhmm... but at the same time I was working on my technique and trying to be more fluid...

Damn crazy trail. Woods off to the left are nutso also.

Ruin them? Hardly. Take a look at some of the supposed 'good' skiiers on these runs. turn..traverse..turn...traverse..stop. As to Castlerock run - why are there even bumps up there? Its hardly steep enough to warrant the number it has. Oh wait.. its those 'good' skiiers again.

For every accusation of a boarder "ruining" something on the mountain I can point to at least two skiiers doing the same, or to put it another way, doing something I think spoils things. My understanding is MRG never/rarely grooms anything so if its that big an issue to the bumpmeisters, they have an alternative.

As to why Bush has groomed some of these trails - beyond the obvious of snow/ice conditions - have you stopped to consider that bump skiiers/boarders don't own the mountain? That maybe the Bush wants people who don't normally do bumps to be able to go on that trail once in a while? Oh the sky is falling - they groomed Twist with a week left in the season! Bump skiiers 'own' the runs no more or less than the carvers do.

Let me point out that I am a snowboarder who enjoys trying (and failing) on bump runs every once in a while. Hope that puts my remarks in a better context.

[win]

The reason we groom trails like Twist, CR, Domino and Moonshine this time of year is to set them up to last as long as possible. With the snow we had the past couple of days and the prospect of the Nor'Easter, we believe that grooming them out and flattening them before some significant snow with allow these trails to last longer, and we want to keep going at least through the end of April! If we have time tonight we will try to do Sunrise, but that will be a function of the overnight temperatures. If you skied or rode Domino this morning, I think you would know what I mean!

[BushMogulMaster]

The reason we groom trails like Twist, CR, Domino and Moonshine this time of year is to set them up to last as long as possible. With the snow we had the past couple of days and the prospect of the Nor'Easter, we believe that grooming them out and flattening them before some significant snow with allow these trails to last longer, and we want to keep going at least through the end of April! If we have time tonight we will try to do Sunrise, but that will be a function of the overnight temperatures. If you skied or rode Domino this morning, I think you would know what I mean!

I knew you'd be back, Win! :D

Thanks for the info, although I'm still not convinced :wink: . However, I thank you and respect your decisions.

[Yard Sale]

. . .we want to keep going at least through the end of April!

Shwing!

[HowieT2]

The reason we groom trails like Twist, CR, Domino and Moonshine this time of year is to set them up to last as long as possible. With the snow we had the past couple of days and the prospect of the Nor'Easter, we believe that grooming them out and flattening them before some significant snow with allow these trails to last longer, and we want to keep going at least through the end of April! If we have time tonight we will try to do Sunrise, but that will be a function of the overnight temperatures. If you skied or rode Domino this morning, I think you would know what I mean!

Welcome back!

Any thoughts on what we're looking at for Monday/tuesday in terms of snow and wind holds? Thanks.

[MikeTrainor]

C-Rock run was in great shape today. I found conditions to be better than middle earth

[BushMogulMaster]

C-Rock run was in great shape today. I found conditions to be better than middle earth

I respectfully disagree... but I'm obviously different than the rest of you! All I want to do is zipper-line, darnit!

The very top of Middle Earth was a little hard, but the rest was awesome.

[MikeTrainor]

Well I didn't hit middle earth until after lunch, hit c-rock rick 3 times before, perhaps the snow was better then. I found C-Rock to have very soft bumps, mid afternoon middle earth was a bit of a challenge for me.

[BushMogulMaster]

Well I didn't hit middle earth until after lunch, hit c-rock rick 3 times before, perhaps the snow was better then. I found C-Rock to have very soft bumps, mid afternoon middle earth was a bit of a challenge for me.

Isn't a challenge a good thing? :D

Middle Earth was perfect if you could zipperline and take a very straight line. You've got to stay out of the troughs when it's hard underneath. You don't need to ski the tops of the bumps, but aim for the very side/corner of the bump (which is where you want to aim anyway). It will be soft and forgiving, and you don't need to contend with the hard troughs. Although, you've definitely got to be ready for A&E and some speed, and be able to look 5-7 bumps ahead of you.

[Mike_451]

Middle Earth was perfect if you could zipperline and take a very straight line. You've got to stay out of the troughs when it's hard underneath. You don't need to ski the tops of the bumps, but aim for the very side/corner of the bump (which is where you want to aim anyway). It will be soft and forgiving, and you don't need to contend with the hard troughs. Although, you've definitely got to be ready for A&E and some speed, and be able to look 5-7 bumps ahead of you.

Easier Said than Done :lol:

[BushMogulMaster]

Middle Earth was perfect if you could zipperline and take a very straight line. You've got to stay out of the troughs when it's hard underneath. You don't need to ski the tops of the bumps, but aim for the very side/corner of the bump (which is where you want to aim anyway). It will be soft and forgiving, and you don't need to contend with the hard troughs. Although, you've definitely got to be ready for A&E and some speed, and be able to look 5-7 bumps ahead of you.

Easier Said than Done :lol:

It just takes practice. I've only been skiing bumps for a year and a half. Although, I've put in over 150 days in the bumps in that year and a half!

[HowieT2]

Middle Earth was perfect if you could zipperline and take a very straight line. You've got to stay out of the troughs when it's hard underneath. You don't need to ski the tops of the bumps, but aim for the very side/corner of the bump (which is where you want to aim anyway). It will be soft and forgiving, and you don't need to contend with the hard troughs. Although, you've definitely got to be ready for A&E and some speed, and be able to look 5-7 bumps ahead of you.

Easier Said than Done :lol:

It just takes practice. I've only been skiing bumps for a year and a half. Although, I've put in over 150 days in the bumps in that year and a half!

Good for you. That's probably more than I've skied my entire life. Remember that next time you see me or someone else who isn't as fortunate you butchering the bumps.