Snowboards V skis

[Volkl Skier]

Moderator note: This topic got totally hijacked. I have split most of the posts I deemed to be about the snowboard/ski differences. I'm believing that a conversation about the differences / advantages can be discussed politely. Please remember to play nice, so that I don't have to lock this subjct. - Lostone



maybe this sport that is 60 percent of the market will just magically fade away and y'all can bask in the limelight of knowing you had a part in it all...throw a big party in the basebox and pat each other on the back...or maybe not. :P

Do we ski at the same mountain?? From standing in the lift line, I can tell you Sugarbush is ATLEAST 75 percent skiers, just take a look at the ski racks around the lodges at lunch... I'm sure the ratio of snowboarders is highier at other mountains where the terrain isn't so challenging though.

[HowieT2]

I ski exclusively, as I feel I'm too old to learn new tricks (and I still have plenty to learn skiing wise) but in defense of the snowboarders, I have to say that it appears to be alot easier dealing with gear. They don't have to worry about poles, the boots look very comfortable and you can wear them apres, and there is only one short board. So there.

Now can we stop with the snowboard inferiority thing. POE

[Strat]

You wouldn't really want to wear snowboard boots apres, but on all other counts you're correct... having only one plank is awesome!

Yeah, there wasn't enough snow to build the pipe last year...

As for the skier to snowboarder ratio... I don't really know I guess but I'd have to say it's gotta be closer to 50/50 nowadays, some days I see way more snowboarders than skiers, but I dunno, it differs....

Volkl: Snowboarders can take terrain just as challenging as skiers. Don't propagate anything different.

[BushMogulMaster]

You wouldn't really want to wear snowboard boots apres, but on all other counts you're correct... having only one plank is awesome!

Yeah, there wasn't enough snow to build the pipe last year...

As for the skier to snowboarder ratio... I don't really know I guess but I'd have to say it's gotta be closer to 50/50 nowadays, some days I see way more snowboarders than skiers, but I dunno, it differs....

Volkl: Snowboarders can take terrain just as challenging as skiers. Don't propagate anything different.

I think figuring out the ratio is kind of difficult. It's different every day of the season. There have been days I've only seen one or two people on snowboards. Other days, I can't seem to find anyone else on two boards. Today there wasn't anyone at North at all :wink: ! It doesn't really matter, but I think in general there are still more skiers. That may change in the future, but that's what I see right now. I like the 65/35 number. Maybe more like 60/40. Something like that. Even in the park, I see quite a few more skiers than riders. Not that it matters.....

[HowieT2]

You wouldn't really want to wear snowboard boots apres, but on all other counts you're correct... having only one plank is awesome!

Yeah, there wasn't enough snow to build the pipe last year...

As for the skier to snowboarder ratio... I don't really know I guess but I'd have to say it's gotta be closer to 50/50 nowadays, some days I see way more snowboarders than skiers, but I dunno, it differs....

Volkl: Snowboarders can take terrain just as challenging as skiers. Don't propagate anything different.

I thought you could wear those boots for anything. They sure look a heck of a lot easier to deal with than ski boots. I'm trying to get my daughter to snowboard so I don't have to carry her ski stuff.

[Strat]

You wouldn't really want to wear snowboard boots apres, but on all other counts you're correct... having only one plank is awesome!

Yeah, there wasn't enough snow to build the pipe last year...

As for the skier to snowboarder ratio... I don't really know I guess but I'd have to say it's gotta be closer to 50/50 nowadays, some days I see way more snowboarders than skiers, but I dunno, it differs....

Volkl: Snowboarders can take terrain just as challenging as skiers. Don't propagate anything different.

I thought you could wear those boots for anything. They sure look a heck of a lot easier to deal with than ski boots. I'm trying to get my daughter to snowboard so I don't have to carry her ski stuff.
Oh they're better for everything than ski boots (except skiing). At the end of the day though, it's quite a relief to slip them off and throw on the Merrells...

[ski_resort_observer]

maybe this sport that is 60 percent of the market will just magically fade away and y'all can bask in the limelight of knowing you had a part in it all...throw a big party in the basebox and pat each other on the back...or maybe not. :P

The latest stats show that there are 6.4m snowboarders and 6.5m skiers nationally.

Your blanket accusation that everyone on this forum are against snowboarders is nothing but a load of bull. I have 3 kids, all snowboarders, and I support them and their sport in many diferent ways. Personally, I see no diference between snowboarders and skiers.

[BushMogulMaster]

maybe this sport that is 60 percent of the market will just magically fade away and y'all can bask in the limelight of knowing you had a part in it all...throw a big party in the basebox and pat each other on the back...or maybe not. :P

The latest stats show that there are 6.4m snowboarders and 6.5m skiers nationally.

Your blanket accusation that everyone on this forum are against snowboarders is nothing but a load of bull. I have 3 kids, all snowboarders, and I support them and their sport in many diferent ways. Personally, I see no diference between snowboarders and skiers.

Except the number of boards :lol:

[Volkl Skier]

As for the skier to snowboarder ratio... I don't really know I guess but I'd have to say it's gotta be closer to 50/50 nowadays, some days I see way more snowboarders than skiers, but I dunno, it differs....

Volkl: Snowboarders can take terrain just as challenging as skiers. Don't propagate anything different.

This is just simply not true. You have to be a much better snowboarder on alot of terrain. For example, there is plenty of terrain that an low expert skier could ski right down, that would require near pro level to snowboard down with the same fluidity. Bumps/tight trees for example, I'm not even close to the best bump skier I know, but in all my years of skiing, I've only met one snowboarder that can keep up in the bumps and/or tight trees. Meaning, its easier for the skier to do it, meaning skis are the better tool.

If people want to snowboard thats fine, some of my best friends/ski buddys are boarders. But lets not get all PC here, skis go faster, turn harder, stop quicker and jump higher.

[MntMan4Bush]

OK. Let me preface my whole statement by the fact that I've never boarded, but I still have to argue this and I mean no offense by doing so, I just truly don't believe it's true. To compare a low expert skier to a pro snow boarder may be a bit off. I will admit that it does seem harder to board the bumps then ski them, but several of my buddies rip right through them and none of them are pro, although one is definitely leagues above the others. This is the same guy that will go flying by others on skis to include me sometimes. Now I'm not pro or anything, but I'm not bad. :wink: Also in the woods I almost envy the boarders. They're body is already turned to give a smaller profile going in between trees and they only have one board to content with and not worry about splitting them on either side of a tree. :cry: In powder it seems like they get better float and it's at that time and only that time that I consider giving it a shot. As for jumping higher on skis? Have you ever noticed how boarders can turn even flat terrain into a jump. Now maybe the boarders in my house are a different breed. They don't come right off the lift and flop down to strap in, they don't destroy bumps and they don't push the snow all the way down the mountain. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I also see skiers do the exact same thing. As with any sport there's a learning curve and I think that the top can be reached by any class, single plank or double.

This of course does not stop me from making fun of them whenever the oppurtunity comes up.

[ski_resort_observer]

If people want to snowboard thats fine, some of my best friends/ski buddys are boarders. But lets not get all PC here, skis go faster, turn harder, stop quicker and jump higher.

Sorry VS, I'm not buying any of this. As I said in a previous post we all have diferent perspectives/opinions on things so I definately disagree but respect your take on it. :D Part of your post is very confusing tho. Your statement "some of my best friends/ski buddys are boarders" is about as PC as you can get. :wink:

I was watching for a short time the halfpipe championships on TV the other night at one of the nations only new resorts, Tamerack in Idaho. It was in one of the new 18' high pipes and it was so big. I really don't know if skiers can jump higher than boarders but these guys were getting heights that just took your breath away.

[Yard Sale]

[quote=Strat]


If people want to snowboard thats fine, some of my best friends/ski buddys are boarders. But lets not get all PC here, skis go faster, turn harder, stop quicker and jump higher.

What difference does it make? What happened to equality?

[freeheel_skier]

As for the skier to snowboarder ratio... I don't really know I guess but I'd have to say it's gotta be closer to 50/50 nowadays, some days I see way more snowboarders than skiers, but I dunno, it differs....

Volkl: Snowboarders can take terrain just as challenging as skiers. Don't propagate anything different.

This is just simply not true. You have to be a much better snowboarder on alot of terrain. For example, there is plenty of terrain that an low expert skier could ski right down, that would require near pro level to snowboard down with the same fluidity. Bumps/tight trees for example, I'm not even close to the best bump skier I know, but in all my years of skiing, I've only met one snowboarder that can keep up in the bumps and/or tight trees. Meaning, its easier for the skier to do it, meaning skis are the better tool.

If people want to snowboard thats fine, some of my best friends/ski buddys are boarders. But lets not get all PC here, skis go faster, turn harder, stop quicker and jump higher.

You don't have a clue. :shock: Maybe you just don't know any good boarders????? Or prehaps......nevermind. :roll:

[Lostone]

But lets not get all PC here, skis go faster, turn harder, stop quicker and jump higher.

So... do you have data to back up that statement?

[MntMan4Bush]

Where's Sugarboarder when you need him? Who else could debunk a baseless statement like this in his stead.......

Where oh where did our Sugarboarder go. Oh where oh where can he be.

You know this is killing him and he wants to respond. Just do it SB. It will feel much better.

[Volkl Skier]

OK. Let me preface my whole statement by the fact that I've never boarded, but I still have to argue this and I mean no offense by doing so, I just truly don't believe it's true. To compare a low expert skier to a pro snow boarder may be a bit off. I will admit that it does seem harder to board the bumps then ski them, but several of my buddies rip right through them and none of them are pro, although one is definitely leagues above the others.
I guess you just have to look at the overall population. There are literally hundreds of skiers at SB that will slay any bumps run on the mountain. There are probably 10 regulars that snowboard that can do it.


This is the same guy that will go flying by others on skis to include me sometimes. Now I'm not pro or anything, but I'm not bad. :wink: Also in the woods I almost envy the boarders. They're body is already turned to give a smaller profile going in between trees and they only have one board to content with and not worry about splitting them on either side of a tree. :cry:

True they are already sideways, but it takes way, way more time to change edges on a snowboard. You have a huge amount of underfoot width to move compared to skis.

What you perceive as a weakness (having two boards) is actually an enormous strength. If a snowboard catches an edge, he has one other edge to save his butt, while a skier has three times the edges to recover with.



In powder it seems like they get better float and it's at that time and only that time that I consider giving it a shot.


FAT skis



As for jumping higher on skis? Have you ever noticed how boarders can turn even flat terrain into a jump. Now maybe the boarders in my house are a different breed. They don't come right off the lift and flop down to strap in, they don't destroy bumps and they don't push the snow all the way down the mountain. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I also see skiers do the exact same thing. As with any sport there's a learning curve and I think that the top can be reached by any class, single plank or double.

This of course does not stop me from making fun of them whenever the oppurtunity comes up.

I never said all snowboarders destroy bumps, I said it takes a more skilled pilot to navigate the same terrain.

[Volkl Skier]

But lets not get all PC here, skis go faster, turn harder, stop quicker and jump higher.

So... do you have data to back up that statement?

Sure, fastest

ski: 154mph
board: 125mph

Jump
ski: 225m
board: 56m

Turns faster:

No real hard facts, but I'd love to see a snowboard try a slalom course!

Stop quicker:

Simple physics, skis have waaaaaay more edge than snowboards (well over 2x)

[Volkl Skier]

If people want to snowboard thats fine, some of my best friends/ski buddys are boarders. But lets not get all PC here, skis go faster, turn harder, stop quicker and jump higher.

Sorry VS, I'm not buying any of this. As I said in a previous post we all have diferent perspectives/opinions on things so I definately disagree but respect your take on it. :D Part of your post is very confusing tho. Your statement "some of my best friends/ski buddys are boarders" is about as PC as you can get. :wink:

I was watching for a short time the halfpipe championships on TV the other night at one of the nations only new resorts, Tamerack in Idaho. It was in one of the new 18' high pipes and it was so big. I really don't know if skiers can jump higher than boarders but these guys were getting heights that just took your breath away.

Maybe, but really its just a fact. And I said it to emphasize that I don't "hate" snowboarders.

[Volkl Skier]

Where's Sugarboarder when you need him? Who else could debunk a baseless statement like this in his stead.......

Where oh where did our Sugarboarder go. Oh where oh where can he be.

You know this is killing him and he wants to respond. Just do it SB. It will feel much better.

They are certainly not basesless. Think about it for a second... Two entirely different ways of getting down a mountain.. Chances are, one is going to be more mechanically efficient.

[Yard Sale]

OK. Let me preface my whole statement by the fact that I've never boarded, but I still have to argue this and I mean no offense by doing so, I just truly don't believe it's true. To compare a low expert skier to a pro snow boarder may be a bit off. I will admit that it does seem harder to board the bumps then ski them, but several of my buddies rip right through them and none of them are pro, although one is definitely leagues above the others.
I guess you just have to look at the overall population. There are literally hundreds of skiers at SB that will slay any bumps run on the mountain. There are probably 10 regulars that snowboard that can do it.


This is the same guy that will go flying by others on skis to include me sometimes. Now I'm not pro or anything, but I'm not bad. :wink: Also in the woods I almost envy the boarders. They're body is already turned to give a smaller profile going in between trees and they only have one board to content with and not worry about splitting them on either side of a tree. :cry:

True they are already sideways, but it takes way, way more time to change edges on a snowboard. You have a huge amount of underfoot width to move compared to skis.

What you perceive as a weakness (having two boards) is actually an enormous strength. If a snowboard catches an edge, he has one other edge to save his butt, while a skier has three times the edges to recover with.



In powder it seems like they get better float and it's at that time and only that time that I consider giving it a shot.


FAT skis



As for jumping higher on skis? Have you ever noticed how boarders can turn even flat terrain into a jump. Now maybe the boarders in my house are a different breed. They don't come right off the lift and flop down to strap in, they don't destroy bumps and they don't push the snow all the way down the mountain. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I also see skiers do the exact same thing. As with any sport there's a learning curve and I think that the top can be reached by any class, single plank or double.

This of course does not stop me from making fun of them whenever the oppurtunity comes up.

I never said all snowboarders destroy bumps, I said it takes a more skilled pilot to navigate the same terrain.

So, I guess your point is that skiing is better than snow boarding. Alright, if that's how you feel, but how is this opinion relavent to the topic as to whether or not to add a pipe or not? It seems lately that despite the topic you only want to criticize snowboarding and maybe snow boarders. So, I'll just ask: Do you dislike Snowboarding/Snowboarders? If so, why?

[Volkl Skier]

OK. Let me preface my whole statement by the fact that I've never boarded, but I still have to argue this and I mean no offense by doing so, I just truly don't believe it's true. To compare a low expert skier to a pro snow boarder may be a bit off. I will admit that it does seem harder to board the bumps then ski them, but several of my buddies rip right through them and none of them are pro, although one is definitely leagues above the others.
I guess you just have to look at the overall population. There are literally hundreds of skiers at SB that will slay any bumps run on the mountain. There are probably 10 regulars that snowboard that can do it.


This is the same guy that will go flying by others on skis to include me sometimes. Now I'm not pro or anything, but I'm not bad. :wink: Also in the woods I almost envy the boarders. They're body is already turned to give a smaller profile going in between trees and they only have one board to content with and not worry about splitting them on either side of a tree. :cry:

True they are already sideways, but it takes way, way more time to change edges on a snowboard. You have a huge amount of underfoot width to move compared to skis.

What you perceive as a weakness (having two boards) is actually an enormous strength. If a snowboard catches an edge, he has one other edge to save his butt, while a skier has three times the edges to recover with.



In powder it seems like they get better float and it's at that time and only that time that I consider giving it a shot.


FAT skis



As for jumping higher on skis? Have you ever noticed how boarders can turn even flat terrain into a jump. Now maybe the boarders in my house are a different breed. They don't come right off the lift and flop down to strap in, they don't destroy bumps and they don't push the snow all the way down the mountain. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I also see skiers do the exact same thing. As with any sport there's a learning curve and I think that the top can be reached by any class, single plank or double.

This of course does not stop me from making fun of them whenever the oppurtunity comes up.

I never said all snowboarders destroy bumps, I said it takes a more skilled pilot to navigate the same terrain.

So, I guess your point is that skiing is better than snow boarding. Alright, if that's how you feel, but how is this opinion relavent to the topic as to whether or not to add a pipe or not? It seems lately that despite the topic you only want to criticize snowboarding and maybe snow boarders. So, I'll just ask: Do you dislike Snowboarding/Snowboarders? If so, why?

Better? No, the ultimate goal is to have fun. So whichever delivers more fun to an individual is the better one for them.. Technically more mechanically efficient? Yes

And I didn't just start ripping on snowboarders in this thread. I made a quip about snowboarders on less challenging terrain and strat said snowboarders and skiers are equals on challenging terrain. I decided to debate that fact since I do not feel it is true.

[MntMan4Bush]

Well VS you do support your statement I guess with facts, but they are extremes. I have never personally jumped 225 meters, nor have I seen anyone do so. Regardless I guess it's all objective. I have had many experiences with boarders who range the gambit of novice to expert. Since I've never boarded though I can't truly attest to which is easier or which has more versatility. I just know what I see. When talking about bumps I see a lot of skiers in bumps, but I don't see many who are really good. Just someone who can get through the bumps doesn't necessarily mean they've done them well. I might agree though that I see more skiers in the bumps ripping them than boarders, but it just may be what I've seen vs. what I haven't paid attention to. I know that my fiends up at SB probably account for 3-4 of your 10 who can rip bumps and I'm sure there are many more out there.

Interesting take on tree skiing. You may have a point. As I've said I've never boarded so I don't know how long it takes to change an edge. My buddy just makes it look so easy. Also having more edges can also be a bad thing. I've caught a stump or two that snaked me, but as you said maybe I haven't considered the fact I have more options to effect quick change.

In powder though I was just saying it looks fun. I've had a pair of pocket rockets for 3 years out here. Everyone used to stare at my fat boys because no one really used them and I loved them, but on a board it looks like you're surfing on deep pow. It just looks more graceful to me.

I guess to sum up what I mean, I have no idea which is better or easier as I've only tried one so I can't speak with authority, but I can speak with autority to say that some of my boarder friends can hold their own with any skier on the mountain. Boards are here to stay and represent a respectable mountain share so we should make sure that we consider that fact when designing features on a mountain or marketing to a particular demograhic. Of course everyone's entitled to their own opinion and I respect that fact with regard to your points.

[BushMogulMaster]

I guess you just have to look at the overall population. There are literally hundreds of skiers at SB that will slay any bumps run on the mountain. There are probably 10 regulars that snowboard that can do it.

First of all, I've got to give you credit for backing everything up. I don't agree with it all, but it definitely makes your points more valid.

However, I strongly disagree with the first statement. While I agree with some of what you're saying (in general, more skiers are good at bumps than boarders... probably because it's more mechanically feasible on skis), I don't see hundreds of skiers at SB who can even begin to slay and bump run. Without trying to be arrogant at all, I consider myself a proficient bump skier with an extensive knowledge of the technique involved (and definitely extremely overly obsessed with bump skiing). I ski very nearly every day... I see many recreational bumps skiers on the mountain (those who can safely make it down a bump run and look half decent); I see many poor bump skiers on the mountain (those who are lucky to make it safely and look atrocious in a bump field); I see very few skiers who I would say can "slay" bumps. When I hear something such as "slay" a bump run, in my mind I picture someone zipper-lining with a tight stance, proper A&E, and impressive pole planting. On Saturday, I observed more impressive bump skiers on the mountain than I've ever seen before. I saw about 25-35 skiers on this level, and two of them were my cousin and me. Again, I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but it's been my observation that there really aren't that many skiers who are really proficient in the bumps. A lot of that has to do with the fact that if you really want to get good at bump skiing, you've got to do it LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS! Unfortunately (for them), most skiers only get out a few days per year. That just doesn't lend itself to "slaying" bumps.

Now, back to snowboarders. I do know more good bumps skiers than bump riders. However, I know 3 or 4 boarders that can rip through bumps quite well, and I have no qualms about sharing the bumps with them.

I completely respect snowboarders and their sport. However, I've never been at all interested in trying it. The only time I've envied snowboarders is in crusty, heavy, wind-packed powder when they can just glide right on top, and my edges are digging in all over the place!

It all comes down to this: skiers can become experts, snowboarders can become experts. Both can reach the same level, even if it takes one longer than the other. Whatever makes you happy, that's what you do. Snowboarders have every right to ride whatever they want at Sugarbush, because that's the policy here. Skiers can ski whatever they want at Sugarbush, because that's the policy here.

On the other side of the coin, snowboarders can not ride at MRG, because that's the policy there. They have every right to make that decision, since they are a private company owned by a coop who is in unanimous agreement that the policy should remain unchanged. If you want to whine about it... fine. But if one of the other two mountains was snowboard only, I wouldn't complain, because I'd know that there's still plenty of terrain for me to ski at MRG and the "co-ed" mountain. You take what's available to you. This valley has some of the best skiing and riding in the northeast... all three mountains are beyond most other areas east of the Rockies. So what's to complain about?

[Strat]

Volkl Skier, have you ever snowboarded?

[Lostone]

Sure, fastest

ski: 154mph
board: 125mph

Jump
ski: 225m
board: 56m

Can you cite a source for these facts? I don't believe skis go 4 times the height of a snowboard. I'm almost sure the jumps weren't made the same way.

[Lostone]

moved from Pipe thread. Got in there while I was splitting the threads.


Post Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:29 pm
Personally, skiers, boarders, it doesn't matter to me. Yes, I board. I go down the mtn at my own pace and stay away from the moguls (or, at least try to). Kinda wish though that some of the diamond terrain didn't have moguls on it so I could try something different. I've seen boarders head down FIS, B/D, and such, but its not for me. I have zero problem with cruising down Rim Run, Jester, whathaveyou. I started skiing in 1990 (at the Bush, of course) and hit a low/stall point where I wasn't getting better. Every time I go out on a board now, I feel more progress being made and myself getting better/faster/etc. I'll tell you this - I feel more confident on bump runs on a board than I ever did with skis ... maybe since there is less opportunity of me pulling a yard sale on a board. If that happens, then I may never find my board again, or I hit so hard that I lost both of my feet Cool

Didn't someone once say, "to each, his own", or something like that?
Smile

_________________
Shady Jay's Snowboarding Pages
www.shadyjay.com

[madhavok]

At Sugarbush you’re looking at 3 or 4:1 ratio of skiers to boarders. Someone mentioned that they thought it was 50/50 but look at the lift lines. For every chair with snow boarders riding it, there are at least 3 chairs of skiers. Also obviously skis get much more performance than a snow board, but people who snow board have their reasons. I will say in my opinion there are very few if any snow boarders who should be on any mogul trails. I ski SB every weekend and every time I see a snow boarder trying moguls their technique is to slide the board perpendicular to the fall line on one edge (as if they were going to stop), hit the mogul, do a quick 180 turn, and slide the board on the other edge perpendicular to fall line (as if they were going to stop). Obviously 99% of the snow boards are just scraping the snow away in between the moguls and making them farther apart. However, they bought a lift ticket so they should be able to do whatever they want.

[Lostone]

Also obviously skis get much more performance than a snow board,

IMNATHO, it isn't that obvious.

If skiing, to you, is skiing icy moguls, you have a real good case. But Have you seen boards setting a good arc? Think you can set one as good as a good snowboarder? I doubt it. Boards are also better (again, IMNATHO) at ripping thru tight trees, especially with variable snow.

And I know a number of boarders who rip a tight line on bumps with snow on them. I just haven't ever seen them on icy bumps, so not sure how well they'd do.

And, for the record, I only ski. :wink:

[Volkl Skier]

Also obviously skis get much more performance than a snow board,

IMNATHO, it isn't that obvious.

If skiing, to you, is skiing icy moguls, you have a real good case. But Have you seen boards setting a good arc? Think you can set one as good as a good snowboarder? I doubt it. Boards are also better (again, IMNATHO) at ripping thru tight trees, especially with variable snow.

And I know a number of boarders who rip a tight line on bumps with snow on them. I just haven't ever seen them on icy bumps, so not sure how well they'd do.

And, for the record, I only ski. :wink:

It really is that obvious.. Its physics. why would you think a snowboard could create an arc that a ski couldn't?? Its just the turn radius of the ski/board. Skiing/boarding an arc it the EASIEST thing to do, just setum' up on edge and watch the magic happen... Imagine the best snowboarder in the world trying to follow bodie on a downhill course, he wouldn't get there within a minute of bodie. Now imagine that same snowboarder trying to follow him through the slalom gates. I doubt its even possible.

One example of a massive flaw in snowboarding, to change edges you have to move your entire center of mass from one side of the board to the other, this is done around a pivot point through a 250mm waist :shock: even on fat skis (for the EC) you're talking way less than half that.

And yes, I have snowboarded a whole bunch of times.

[Volkl Skier]

Not to mention the fact that your body is travelling in a direction it wasn't designed to go. We are meant to move forward, we can absorb a great deal more shock facing something, by scruntching up our ankles, knees and waist. On a snowboard, your feet are apart and sideways, not only can you not absorb as much sideways, but the impact first hits your front foot, then travels under your CM, finally hitting your back foot. This requires a great deal more adjusting, and all the while, you have less adjusting ability.

[Yard Sale]

Not to mention the fact that your body is travelling in a direction it wasn't designed to go. We are meant to move forward, we can absorb a great deal more shock facing something, by scruntching up our ankles, knees and waist. On a snowboard, your feet are apart and sideways, not only can you not absorb as much sideways, but the impact first hits your front foot, then travels under your CM, finally hitting your back foot. This requires a great deal more adjusting, and all the while, you have less adjusting ability.

While your position is not without merrit, the "evidence" (quotation fingers) you use to support your position has been purely anecdotal and very subjective. There has been no objectivity to your analysis. Thus rendering your case somewhat lacking in validity and relevance. Where are your facts? Ok, we get it. You like skiing better, much better. And we care because... BTW, Why did you ever try snowbarding?

[BushMogulMaster]

BTW, Why did you ever try snowbarding?

Actually, he just said he did:


And yes, I have snowboarded a whole bunch of times.

[Volkl Skier]

Not to mention the fact that your body is travelling in a direction it wasn't designed to go. We are meant to move forward, we can absorb a great deal more shock facing something, by scruntching up our ankles, knees and waist. On a snowboard, your feet are apart and sideways, not only can you not absorb as much sideways, but the impact first hits your front foot, then travels under your CM, finally hitting your back foot. This requires a great deal more adjusting, and all the while, you have less adjusting ability.

While your position is not without merrit, the "evidence" (quotation fingers) you use to support your position has been purely anecdotal and very subjective. There has been no objectivity to your analysis. Thus rendering your case somewhat lacking in validity and relevance. Where are your facts? Ok, we get it. You like skiing better, much better. And we care because... BTW, Why did you ever try snowbarding?

Its not a matter of me liking skiing better or not. I'm not saying everyone should ski. I tried it because it looks fun, which is the whole reason we ski/board. But the evidence I posted about edge length, lever arm, top speed, COM etc is not anecdotal, true I didn't do an all out proof for you, but I'm not going to because that would be an immense waste of time. I can't believe that people are so PC that they won't just grasp the fact, thre are two entirely different ways to do a task, one will be more efficient.

Atleast my evidence was based on the physics of the sport. Any evidence supporting equality has been, I see boarders go faster than skiers all the time. Any skier vs snowboarder comparison I gave was pro vs pro.

We're all out there to have fun, and people should do whatever bring a smile to their face, but skiing is absolutely the more efficient way based on physics, human anatomy, and world records.

[Yard Sale]

Not to mention the fact that your body is travelling in a direction it wasn't designed to go. We are meant to move forward, we can absorb a great deal more shock facing something, by scruntching up our ankles, knees and waist. On a snowboard, your feet are apart and sideways, not only can you not absorb as much sideways, but the impact first hits your front foot, then travels under your CM, finally hitting your back foot. This requires a great deal more adjusting, and all the while, you have less adjusting ability.

While your position is not without merrit, the "evidence" (quotation fingers) you use to support your position has been purely anecdotal and very subjective. There has been no objectivity to your analysis. Thus rendering your case somewhat lacking in validity and relevance. Where are your facts? Ok, we get it. You like skiing better, much better. And we care because... BTW, Why did you ever try snowbarding?

Its not a matter of me liking skiing better or not. I'm not saying everyone should ski. I tried it because it looks fun, which is the whole reason we ski/board. But the evidence I posted about edge length, lever arm, top speed, COM etc is not anecdotal, true I didn't do an all out proof for you, but I'm not going to because that would be an immense waste of time. I can't believe that people are so PC that they won't just grasp the fact, thre are two entirely different ways to do a task, one will be more efficient.

Fair enough.

Atleast my evidence was based on the physics of the sport. Any evidence supporting equality has been, I see boarders go faster than skiers all the time. Any skier vs snowboarder comparison I gave was pro vs pro.

We're all out there to have fun, and people should do whatever bring a smile to their face, but skiing is absolutely the more efficient way based on physics, human anatomy, and world records.

[BushMogulMaster]

Yardsale: where's your text in that last post? Or did you just want to repeat the conversation? :wink:

[Yard Sale]

Yardsale: where's your text in that last post? Or did you just want to repeat the conversation? :wink:

Whoops. Thank you BMM. Sorry about that. Simply, I intended to say "fair enough" to the points that VS was making. I was kind of curious as to how far he'd go to make his point, and he makes a point. But then again I ski. This debate interests me only because it is so polarized and I don't fully understand why. I mean sometimes I'll hear skiers on the lift chirping about damned snow boarders. (Generally older folks) And sometimes I'll meet snowboarders and I'll detect some level of disdane. But this debate has always made me question what's the point. It's not that it is a topic that is unimportant or unworthy of discussion. It's obviously a highly charged issue and the opinions held are strong either way. And it can be fun to debate. But let's face it. These types of debates are generally pretty circular. To a degree it's like comparing classical music to country or chocolate vs. vanilla then debating which is better.

[Strat]

Not to mention the fact that your body is travelling in a direction it wasn't designed to go. We are meant to move forward, we can absorb a great deal more shock facing something, by scruntching up our ankles, knees and waist. On a snowboard, your feet are apart and sideways, not only can you not absorb as much sideways, but the impact first hits your front foot, then travels under your CM, finally hitting your back foot. This requires a great deal more adjusting, and all the while, you have less adjusting ability.

While your position is not without merrit, the "evidence" (quotation fingers) you use to support your position has been purely anecdotal and very subjective. There has been no objectivity to your analysis. Thus rendering your case somewhat lacking in validity and relevance. Where are your facts? Ok, we get it. You like skiing better, much better. And we care because... BTW, Why did you ever try snowbarding?

Its not a matter of me liking skiing better or not. I'm not saying everyone should ski. I tried it because it looks fun, which is the whole reason we ski/board. But the evidence I posted about edge length, lever arm, top speed, COM etc is not anecdotal, true I didn't do an all out proof for you, but I'm not going to because that would be an immense waste of time. I can't believe that people are so PC that they won't just grasp the fact, thre are two entirely different ways to do a task, one will be more efficient.

Atleast my evidence was based on the physics of the sport. Any evidence supporting equality has been, I see boarders go faster than skiers all the time. Any skier vs snowboarder comparison I gave was pro vs pro.

We're all out there to have fun, and people should do whatever bring a smile to their face, but skiing is absolutely the more efficient way based on physics, human anatomy, and world records.
Efficient for what task exactly?

[skiladi]

You guys must be really board...er..,I mean...bored. ; }

I ski, I ride, therefore I am.

[noski]

Isn't it all about the fun? Whether one debates the quality or difficulting of obtaining a ringing chord in a cappella barbershop singing or shattering a glass in operatic singing- or the velocity, spin and travel of a golf ball whacked (uh, I mean hit) using a Calloway club over a competing brand, as long as you love what you do, at the end of the day, does it really matter?

[Strat]

Isn't it all about the fun? Whether one debates the quality or difficulting of obtaining a ringing chord in a cappella barbershop singing or shattering a glass in operatic singing- or the velocity, spin and travel of a golf ball whacked (uh, I mean hit) using a Calloway club over a competing brand, as long as you love what you do, at the end of the day, does it really matter?

No, it doesn't, but Volkl has mentioned repeatedly that it's only about fun... I'm just curious as to what goal he's referring to that skiing is more efficient for...

[noski]

Isn't it all about the fun? Whether one debates the quality or difficulting of obtaining a ringing chord in a cappella barbershop singing or shattering a glass in operatic singing- or the velocity, spin and travel of a golf ball whacked (uh, I mean hit) using a Calloway club over a competing brand, as long as you love what you do, at the end of the day, does it really matter?

No, it doesn't, but Volkl has mentioned repeatedly that it's only about fun... I'm just curious as to what goal he's referring to that skiing is more efficient for... Strat- my query was more philosophical about the whole topic not your specific question. Carry on! :wink:

[BushMogulMaster]

Isn't it all about the fun? Whether one debates the quality or difficulting of obtaining a ringing chord in a cappella barbershop singing or shattering a glass in operatic singing- or the velocity, spin and travel of a golf ball whacked (uh, I mean hit) using a Calloway club over a competing brand, as long as you love what you do, at the end of the day, does it really matter?

No, it doesn't, but Volkl has mentioned repeatedly that it's only about fun... I'm just curious as to what goal he's referring to that skiing is more efficient for... Strat- my query was more philosophical about the whole topic not your specific question. Carry on! :wink:

Oh no... philosophy! :wink:

[atkinson]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Rd8AJdcnw4A.swf

John

[saabski]

wow.

WOW

THAT is quite a vid.

[MntMan4Bush]

Think how much cooler it would have been if he were on skis!!! He probably would have went faster and the mountain would have seemed taller. Plus did you notice how he skied all the snow off? Like there was anything left for the next guy to ski. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[flakeydog]

“Not to mention the fact that your body is travelling in a direction it wasn't designed to go.”

There is one thing that rings true about this statement. When I first learned how to snowboard it seemed very unnatural to me. As a lifelong skier to that point it was like asking me to play golf left-handed, So yes, I did feel that my body was “traveling in a direction it wasn't designed to go.” If you have been skiing since age 2, learning to snowboard at age 20 can be a humbling experience.

“We are meant to move forward, we can absorb a great deal more shock facing something…”

Make no mistake, snowboarding, like skiing, is a sport of forward motion. The stance is no accident, just ask a water skier or surfer. As far as stability and shock absorption, look at how other athletes deal with this. Football and hockey players lead with a foot and/or shoulder as do boxers and tennis players. Ski jumpers land with one foot in front of the other as does a gymnast that is a bit off balance. Why? Stability. Take note the next time you sail across a hardwood floor in your socks or slide over that icy patch in your driveway. Look at what your feet are doing.

I think the core issue of this debate lies in the fact that snowboarding is a newer sport (in relative terms). I snowboarded for the 1st time in 1990 or 91. At that point, I knew very few people that truly grew up with the sport. It is really only in the last few years that we finally have “lifelong” snowboarders out on the slopes. As time passes, we will get more and more grumpy old snowboarders that remember the good old days and complain as much as us grumpy old skiers.

[Strat]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Rd8AJdcnw4A.swf

John
Well Terje's just Terje... no doubt about it one of the best snowboarders on the face of the Earth.

[sasquatch]

(quote) Think how much cooler it would have been if he were on skis!!! He probably would have went faster and the mountain would have seemed taller. Plus did you notice how he skied all the snow off? Like there was anything left for the next guy to ski. (end quote)

Wow...this forum is basically a core group of ignorant people who just cant get over the fact that snowboarding exists...get a life!

Good post JA!

[MntMan4Bush]

Lighten up Francis.

If you couldn't tell I was kidding. Look at the several other posts I did. When you get a chance look up teh word sarcasm.

[sasquatch]

Fine...does not change the reality of the statement though. Ski on ladies.

[MntMan4Bush]

Agreed there are some, but making a sweeping statement about this forum is like making a sweeping statement about boarders. Hypocracy knows no bounds.

[sasquatch]

I said *core group* - not the entire forum. Methinks someone has had a nerve touched...

[Lostone]

Wow...this forum is basically a core group of ignorant people who just cant get over the fact that snowboarding exists...get a life!

I would think you would want to go easy on the "ignorant" part if you weren't able to recognize the obvious sarcasm in MtnMan's post. :roll:

As to who is the "core group", and what do they think, maybe you want to read a few of the posts? :wink:

[MntMan4Bush]

No nerve touched. I see snow in the forcast for this weekend and several tall pints of Guinness. Little can get me down or upset me at this time. I'm already in "can't wait to get to the weekend" mode after finally being bale to walk up teh stairs from this last weekend.

[freeheel_skier]

I said *core group* - not the entire forum. Methinks someone has had a nerve touched...



Quality contribution! :shock: I am soooo enlightened. Thank You! Now go back to lurking. Come back later and make another blanket statement! :lol:[/img]

[freeheel_skier]

No nerve touched. I see snow in the forcast for this weekend and several tall pints of Guinness. Little can get me down or upset me at this time. I'm already in "can't wait to get to the weekend" mode after finally being bale to walk up teh stairs from this last weekend.

The only thing that would make it bettah would be if you were snowboarding whilst drinking Guinness????? :D

[MntMan4Bush]

Now there's an idea. I'll have to dig out the ole beer helmet and of course learn to board. I hear it's so easy though. :lol:

[castlerock]

This thread is like a car crash. It has been happening for years (google it, you'll find countless iterations, on many BBs), Everyone involved is at fault. It inevitably ends up with people yelling at each other, and it is a waste of time.

[ski_resort_observer]

No nerve touched. I see snow in the forcast for this weekend and several tall pints of Guinness. Little can get me down or upset me at this time. I'm already in "can't wait to get to the weekend" mode after finally being bale to walk up teh stairs from this last weekend.

The only thing that would make it bettah would be if you were snowboarding whilst drinking Guinness????? :D

"BRILLIANT"... :lol:

[random_ski_guy]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Rd8AJdcnw4A.swf

John

John, is this a family member?

Great video, even if its a single planker (sarcasm)

And I think Hattrup skied that line backwards the week before (more sarcasm)

[freeheel_skier]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Rd8AJdcnw4A.swf

John

John, is this a family member?

Great video, even if its a single planker (sarcasm)

And I think Hattrup skied that line backwards the week before (more sarcasm)

You guys have it all wrong..........this is where it is at!!!

http://www.ski-bike.org/gallery.html

[MntMan4Bush]

There were quite a few of those on North last Sunday all over the place. They were just kids so I really can't make fun of them. Kids do the craziest things.

Who's team do these things fall on? I know that we skiers unfortunately have the hot sticks or big feet or whatever you call those little small boot size skis. I say they belong to the snowboarders. I don't want them on my team.

[sasquatch]

*I dont want them on my team...*

...and the beat goes on - you people are truly amazing. Ever try something new? Ever embrace change? Too scary?

[MntMan4Bush]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! If you look sarcasm up in teh dictionary it falls somewhere between "lighten the hell up" and "Why does everyone get so bent out of shape"

Seriously though. Read the whole thread before commenting on my stance because chances are likely you don't know it. Life is too short and there's too much powder at the Bush right now to take offense to such minor things. People take offense or objection to too many things these days. Why would I care if you board or ski? If you enjoy doing one over the other how would it effect me or ruin my day. I say do what makes you happy. I could care less.

Oh and for the record I did try something new. I once tried the new Butterfinger Crisps and found that compared to the original Butterfinger it sucked. (Sarcasm alert. Sarcasm alert. :wink: )