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View Full Version : Thoughts on closing ME before LP?



saabski
03-05-2007, 11:59 AM
Not trying to rush this great season to a close; but I just noticed a note on the Win's Word page re: having LP be the 'late mountain' this spring..........

I had speculated that maybe the MadBus would run from LP to ME for the Claybrook peeps to ski late season; but I guess keeping LP open instead is a solution. Snowball's exposure is pretty tough for holding snow late (ASC never had much luck w/ the LP=late mountain program) but I suppose with large amts of stockpiled snow it could work. ASC always wound up w/ only Steins open.

Having skied here for the last 15 years (and before that, always coming to ME from Stowe after they had called it a wrap), I've been partial to ME for late skiing due to the elevation, exposure and because it accommodates a wider range of skiing abilities, and the deck(s) rock for apres' ski. I'll be interested to see how this works. One thing for sure, I'll be there at the end regardless of which mt is open!

Re: trips West, I came to the same conclusion as Win did; why bother when the skiing here is SO FREAKIN GOOD!!!!

CapeSkiGuy
03-05-2007, 12:26 PM
I guess it is a business decision. Considering the investment that went into the LP base this year, it seems to make sense that management would want that to be the latest-open place at the resort. Althought I agree that a lot of the area is going to have trouble holding snow once the meltdown starts. This will be interesting. I will miss the outdoor deck. The CR Pub patio is not the same. Not that we won't have a fantastic time...I am sure it will be excellent no matter where we are. I just hope I have one more weekend to ski after I get back from FL on April 22. I will miss the prior 2 weekends due to travel on Sundays. If not, Easter will be the last ski day of the year for me.

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 12:32 PM
When the snow at LP starts melting and we are struggling to keep 4-5 trails open the back bowls at VAIL will still be DEEP and SWEEEEEEEET!!

I'd say don't go yet - but don't throw the idea out the window either! 8)

BushMogulMaster
03-05-2007, 01:34 PM
When the snow at LP starts melting and we are struggling to keep 4-5 trails open the back bowls at VAIL will still be DEEP and SWEEEEEEEET!!

Yeah, and so will FIS.

I will not get into this discussion, because I will get myself into trouble. Enough said.

Strat
03-05-2007, 03:49 PM
When the snow at LP starts melting and we are struggling to keep 4-5 trails open the back bowls at VAIL will still be DEEP and SWEEEEEEEET!!

Yeah, and so will FIS.

I will not get into this discussion, because I will get myself into trouble. Enough said.

Haha...

It seems as though it might not be that difficult for you to obtain a snowmobile and permission to use it on Mt. Ellen... just saying...

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 05:25 PM
When the snow at LP starts melting and we are struggling to keep 4-5 trails open the back bowls at VAIL will still be DEEP and SWEEEEEEEET!!

Yeah, and so will FIS.

I will not get into this discussion, because I will get myself into trouble. Enough said.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think you already did - elsewhere! 8)

BushMogulMaster
03-06-2007, 06:27 PM
When the snow at LP starts melting and we are struggling to keep 4-5 trails open the back bowls at VAIL will still be DEEP and SWEEEEEEEET!!

Yeah, and so will FIS.

I will not get into this discussion, because I will get myself into trouble. Enough said.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think you already did - elsewhere! 8)

No, Sugarboarder. You have no idea. I could write a book. But I won't. :lol: :wink:

ahm
03-12-2007, 08:05 AM
It's a pretty easy skin or hike up Mt E for those turns if it (or when it) is shut down. Don't shy away from a couple runs of "earned turns", it can be pretty good and get you ready for those spring trips to Tucks, and beyond. During the Valentines storm, I skied quite a bit at Mt E on the Thursday and found it just great, no crowds, lots of fresh snow, etc. In the age of the fritschi freeride and garmont adrenalines/endorphins, it is pretty easy to get yourself to the top when the lifts don't run................... A couple shots of upper FIS before the big dumps..............
http://upload7.postimage.org/162696/LaGrave07019.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/162696/photo_hosting.html)
http://upload7.postimage.org/162753/LaGrave07022.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/162753/photo_hosting.html)

MntMan4Bush
03-12-2007, 08:41 AM
That bottom pic looks a bit like Huntington Ravine. For real it's FIS?

By the way I like your motivation.

freeheel_skier
03-12-2007, 08:51 AM
That bottom pic looks a bit like Huntington Ravine. For real it's FIS?

By the way I like your motivation.

Definitely not FIS. Maybe LaGrave....the pic's say so. :wink:

MntMan4Bush
03-12-2007, 09:04 AM
Consider my chops thoroughly busted. I didn't even open the pics up, but just went off the thumbs. Anyone have a bridge they'd like to unload?

BushMogulMaster
03-12-2007, 09:05 AM
This week is a perfect example of my concern for the snowpack on the spring trails at LP (Steins, etc.).

I looked at the mountain's WX for the week, and the temps are going to kill lower mountain. Base temps a couple of days will be in the 42-50 degree range, mid temps in the 38-45 range, but with summit temps remain in the 32-38 range. This is why ME always worked... Summit holds snow on ME unlike any other place on the mountain. While Steins is melting and becoming a river, the corn bumps on FIS will be perfect -- and I'll be having a BBQ on the Glen House deck! :D

I realize that it's going to cool off again, but this is an indication of how April will be... 45-50 degrees at the base, and still 30-40 at the summits. It's simple logic... the snow melts more quickly on lower mountain (significantly, actually).

freeheel_skier
03-12-2007, 09:44 AM
This week is a perfect example of my concern for the snowpack on the spring trails at LP (Steins, etc.).

I looked at the mountain's WX for the week, and the temps are going to kill lower mountain. Base temps a couple of days will be in the 42-50 degree range, mid temps in the 38-45 range, but with summit temps remain in the 32-38 range. This is why ME always worked... Summit holds snow on ME unlike any other place on the mountain. While Steins is melting and becoming a river, the corn bumps on FIS will be perfect -- and I'll be having a BBQ on the Glen House deck! :D

I realize that it's going to cool off again, but this is an indication of how April will be... 45-50 degrees at the base, and still 30-40 at the summits. It's simple logic... the snow melts more quickly on lower mountain (significantly, actually).

I am with you on this one! I've been banging my head since it was official LP will be the late mountain. I could care less about being able to walk from Timbers over to the Castlerock Pub smelling the bbq on the "patio" looking @ the old VH lodge. I'd rather be skiing a "quality" product. :roll: I will be earning my turns @ ME.....just sooner that expected :wink:

MntMan4Bush
03-12-2007, 10:06 AM
I think this weekend was a prime example of how higher elevation makes all the difference. On Sunday after a warm Saturday and some rain, the lower elevation trails at North were all ice (i.e. Tumbler, Cliffs, Encore and Hammerhead), but the upper elevation ones (Upper Exterminator, Upper Bravo, Black Diamond) were all soft and skied very nicely. The proof is in the pudding. I guess it's just harder to market selling a condo with, "Hey drop some big coin on this place and by the way, even though there's a mountain right in front of your door, here's a nice bus you can cram onto if you want to ski......"

ski_resort_observer
03-12-2007, 10:24 AM
WB Ahm :D

BushMogulMaster
03-12-2007, 11:37 AM
Here's a perfect example of what I was talking about:



Lincoln Peak Mt. Ellen
Base: 43 °F Base: 41 °F
Mid: 36.7 °F Mid: 34.8 °F
Summit: 29.7 °F Summit: 24 °F


While Steins begins to melt away at 43 degrees (dropping, of course, to 37 degrees by the top of it), upper mt at ME is golden at 8 degrees below freezing.

This is the trend the will continue through the end of April. And, sorry... as awesome as I find the new patio outside the Castlerock Pub (which I enjoyed a lot on Sunday being sheltered from he wind smokin' a stoagie), it will never ever compare to the Glen House deck IMVHO.

AngryJohnny
03-12-2007, 11:43 AM
I guess we'll all have to get used to the idea that all the decisions from now on will be made to satisfy the 1% of SB customers...those being Claybrook owners. :x
I' d be very weery, as are many LOYAL SB customers, the positive marketing effect keeping LP open over ME will have on the resort. If anything it'll leave a bitter tasting memory of how we got forgotten about.
There is no way you can convince me any other person that it will have a positive effect. We have all seen and witnessed that nothing has changed in the past 3 months in service at CR & Timbers. There is not enough outdoor seating now nor does CR offer the wonderful exposure that North has. Its sad. :cry:
I will be going to Vail this April as I know there will be a nice picnic bench seat waiting for me atop China Bowl.
My friends and I have come to the conclusion that what ever the SB thinks that they should do?
They should do the opposite.
Have a great Spring everyone! :lol:

MntMan4Bush
03-12-2007, 12:00 PM
My only hope is that once all of the Claybrook units have been sold it will be reverted back to North. Hopefully we give it a try this season (although I think ASC proved it doesn't work as well) and next season we'll be back to normal.

I do have to disagree about Timbers. Thier new Apres menu is pretty tasty and changes regularly. (Try the wings). As far as service goes I never had an empty beer at any time on Saturday. I thought it was pretty good, although it seemed there were quite a few less tables then before. There are only a hadnful in teh center now. Didn't there used to be more? Most people when they're done skiing like to sit. We lucked out in scoring a table, but many were standing looking for a seat, and many walked back out. As for the CR pub I don't even attempt that any more. Not until it gets re-sized. It would be nice if some music were played in Timbers. Not blaring loud or anything but as background noise.

Nothing beats the deck at North in the spring. Nothing. Well maybe something, but I don't know. Perhaps....forget it.

sglatham
03-12-2007, 12:38 PM
ME is so obvious for late season as the whole area is basically over 3,000', and early/late a whole lot of winter goes on over 3,000. The terrian is also good and varied - its not just bumps. Ironically, LP has similar terrian off the top (Jester, OG and Rip Cord) but downloading on HG quad is not as easy as at ME.

The interesting question is: how long will SB stay open after ME closes? The argument that ME is better for late season skiing is moot if they plan to close on 4/15 :cry:

If I owned a condo at CB I would prefer nice spring corn off ME (and a bus ride) over slush on the lower part of LP.

madhavok
03-12-2007, 01:39 PM
ME is so obvious for late season as the whole area is basically over 3,000', and early/late a whole lot of winter goes on over 3,000. The terrian is also good and varied - its not just bumps. Ironically, LP has similar terrian off the top (Jester, OG and Rip Cord) but downloading on HG quad is not as easy as at ME.

The interesting question is: how long will SB stay open after ME closes? The argument that ME is better for late season skiing is moot if they plan to close on 4/15 :cry:

If I owned a condo at CB I would prefer nice spring corn off ME (and a bus ride) over slush on the lower part of LP.

I agree with you that ME should be the spring mountain. But since you can't download off the heavens gate, I assume Sugarbush would download using super bravo. You'll have to take Jester down from the heavens gate when your ready to leave. I think the bigger problem is going to be keeping deathspout in good shape. But we shall see.

kcyanks1
03-12-2007, 01:52 PM
ME is so obvious for late season as the whole area is basically over 3,000', and early/late a whole lot of winter goes on over 3,000. The terrian is also good and varied - its not just bumps. Ironically, LP has similar terrian off the top (Jester, OG and Rip Cord) but downloading on HG quad is not as easy as at ME.

The interesting question is: how long will SB stay open after ME closes? The argument that ME is better for late season skiing is moot if they plan to close on 4/15 :cry:

If I owned a condo at CB I would prefer nice spring corn off ME (and a bus ride) over slush on the lower part of LP.

I agree with you that ME should be the spring mountain. But since you can't download off the heavens gate, I assume Sugarbush would download using super bravo. You'll have to take Jester down from the heavens gate when your ready to leave. I think the bigger problem is going to be keeping deathspout in good shape. But we shall see.

Spring skiing isn't going to be off Heaven's Gate at all; it's going to be the lower-mountain terrain off of Super Bravo. No downloading at all. Steins and Spring Fling, I think. Win mentioned it in another post here.

BushMogulMaster
03-12-2007, 03:31 PM
ME is so obvious for late season as the whole area is basically over 3,000', and early/late a whole lot of winter goes on over 3,000. The terrian is also good and varied - its not just bumps. Ironically, LP has similar terrian off the top (Jester, OG and Rip Cord) but downloading on HG quad is not as easy as at ME.

The interesting question is: how long will SB stay open after ME closes? The argument that ME is better for late season skiing is moot if they plan to close on 4/15 :cry:

If I owned a condo at CB I would prefer nice spring corn off ME (and a bus ride) over slush on the lower part of LP.

I agree with you that ME should be the spring mountain. But since you can't download off the heavens gate, I assume Sugarbush would download using super bravo. You'll have to take Jester down from the heavens gate when your ready to leave. I think the bigger problem is going to be keeping deathspout in good shape. But we shall see.

Spring skiing isn't going to be off Heaven's Gate at all; it's going to be the lower-mountain terrain off of Super Bravo. No downloading at all. Steins and Spring Fling, I think. Win mentioned it in another post here.

You've got it, kcyanks1.

Lostone
03-12-2007, 04:15 PM
he scheduled lifts for the final weeks at LP will be the Super Bravo and the Heaven's Gate lift. Mountain Operations have been anticipating this and have made extra snow on Spring Fling, Steins and Coffee Run.

And for the record, I am not a Claybrook owner, but as I've been skiing here almost continuously for the last 20 years and volunteering for the last two, I might be considered a loyal Sugarbush skier.

I like the idea of South being open later. There are a number of others I've spoken to who feel the same way. I agree that North can be extended by downloading, but I also was there to hear the downloading complaints at the beginning of the season, and there were a lot of them.

We'll see how it goes, this year. 8)

BushMogulMaster
03-12-2007, 04:20 PM
but I also was there to hear the downloading complaints at the beginning of the season, and there were a lot of them.

I can't deny that... but remember... downloading lasted a little longer than usual this year. People complained about everything at the beginning of the season, and with good reason.

I'll be honest, even though downloading can be a pain, I'd much rather have to download in exchange for a better skiing experience. Actually, I didn't hear more than one or two complaints about it at the end of last season. It's well worth it IMO.

madhavok
03-12-2007, 05:04 PM
ME is so obvious for late season as the whole area is basically over 3,000', and early/late a whole lot of winter goes on over 3,000. The terrian is also good and varied - its not just bumps. Ironically, LP has similar terrian off the top (Jester, OG and Rip Cord) but downloading on HG quad is not as easy as at ME.

The interesting question is: how long will SB stay open after ME closes? The argument that ME is better for late season skiing is moot if they plan to close on 4/15 :cry:

If I owned a condo at CB I would prefer nice spring corn off ME (and a bus ride) over slush on the lower part of LP.

I agree with you that ME should be the spring mountain. But since you can't download off the heavens gate, I assume Sugarbush would download using super bravo. You'll have to take Jester down from the heavens gate when your ready to leave. I think the bigger problem is going to be keeping deathspout in good shape. But we shall see.

Spring skiing isn't going to be off Heaven's Gate at all; it's going to be the lower-mountain terrain off of Super Bravo. No downloading at all. Steins and Spring Fling, I think. Win mentioned it in another post here.

I guess I stand corrected. Seems very odd, isn't the bottom of the Summit Chair at ME higher than the top of the Super Bravo?

Tin Woodsman
03-12-2007, 06:05 PM
he scheduled lifts for the final weeks at LP will be the Super Bravo and the Heaven's Gate lift. Mountain Operations have been anticipating this and have made extra snow on Spring Fling, Steins and Coffee Run.

And for the record, I am not a Claybrook owner, but as I've been skiing here almost continuously for the last 20 years and volunteering for the last two, I might be considered a loyal Sugarbush skier.

I like the idea of South being open later. There are a number of others I've spoken to who feel the same way. I agree that North can be extended by downloading, but I also was there to hear the downloading complaints at the beginning of the season, and there were a lot of them.

We'll see how it goes, this year. 8)

Jim

Come on now. Be fair. The downloading complaints were not about downloading inand of itself. There were about the fact that the downloading season lasted WAY too long before the hill was T2B. Downloading is a PITA when it's the first week in December and everyone is joensing for snow and real vertical. It's a sweet moment of calm relaxation on a warm May afternoon after a day of spring skiing and a few pops on the deck of the Glen House.

Lostone
03-12-2007, 06:16 PM
There were about the fact that the downloading season lasted WAY too long before the hill was T2B. Downloading is a PITA when it's the first week in December and everyone is joensing for snow and real vertical. It's a sweet moment of calm relaxation on a warm May afternoon after a day of spring skiing and a few pops on the deck of the Glen House.

I will willingly agree that the majority of the complaints I heard were that it was going on too long, but there are also a lot of skiers who HATE downloading, and some that wait until it stops, to start skiing.

Were North to be the closing mountain, and were it to be done with downloading, I would gladly do that, but my main point is that not all loyal Sugarbush skiers want it to be North, and it is not true that the only people that South is being kept open for, is for Claybrook owners / guests.

Of course, all opinions are welcome. Even those that... :cry: disagree with me. :wink:

Edit added the phrase "it is not true that ", as Tinny pointed out that the meaning of my post was exactly opposite what actually intended. :roll: ... Thanx, Tinny! :wink:

Tin Woodsman
03-12-2007, 06:44 PM
There were about the fact that the downloading season lasted WAY too long before the hill was T2B. Downloading is a PITA when it's the first week in December and everyone is joensing for snow and real vertical. It's a sweet moment of calm relaxation on a warm May afternoon after a day of spring skiing and a few pops on the deck of the Glen House.

I will willingly agree that the majority of the complaints I heard were that it was going on too long, but there are also a lot of skiers who HATE downloading, and some that wait until it stops, to start skiing.

Were North to be the closing mountain, and were it to be done with downloading, I would gladly do that, but my main point is that not all loyal Sugarbush skiers want it to be North, and the only people that South is being kept open for, is for Claybrook owners / guests.

Of course, all opinions are welcome. Even those that... :cry: disagree with me. :wink:

I think you forgot a "not" in that last sentence, but I get your point. My point is that I'd rather endure the downloading experience in mid-May with a deep snowpack on the upper mountain at North than the walking experience on a muddy Coffee Run in late April.

BushMogulMaster
03-12-2007, 08:11 PM
There were about the fact that the downloading season lasted WAY too long before the hill was T2B. Downloading is a PITA when it's the first week in December and everyone is joensing for snow and real vertical. It's a sweet moment of calm relaxation on a warm May afternoon after a day of spring skiing and a few pops on the deck of the Glen House.

I will willingly agree that the majority of the complaints I heard were that it was going on too long, but there are also a lot of skiers who HATE downloading, and some that wait until it stops, to start skiing.

Were North to be the closing mountain, and were it to be done with downloading, I would gladly do that, but my main point is that not all loyal Sugarbush skiers want it to be North, and the only people that South is being kept open for, is for Claybrook owners / guests.

Of course, all opinions are welcome. Even those that... :cry: disagree with me. :wink:

I think you forgot a "not" in that last sentence, but I get your point. My point is that I'd rather endure the downloading experience in mid-May with a deep snowpack on the upper mountain at North than the walking experience on a muddy Coffee Run in late April.

Yes. And judging by the snowpack on Exterm, et. al., we'd probably have North Ridge until near the end.

freeheel_skier
03-12-2007, 08:48 PM
Yes. And judging by the snowpack on Exterm, et. al., we'd probably have North Ridge until near the end

Absolutely

Mike_451
03-12-2007, 09:56 PM
I agree that the Summit of ME is better positioned for spring skiing. I have seen Stiens hold up on its own some years well into may or june, so I don't think thats going to be much of a problem. Spring Fling as a Spring Run, how about Slush Springs, for all you Wake Boarders and Water Skiers out there. Something tells me that before Jester burns out, it will be sacrificed to build up whats left of the Traverse, and that Organgrinder, and Ripcord will end up getting sacrificed for Upper and Lower Downspout. If we are still skiing at the end of April, it will probably be on a 6' cat track of snow down spring fling, and Steins will be watery piles of slush with the dirt between the trowels showing through.

If Spring Fling, and Stiens are really going to be the spring trails, how about just running the VH chair instead of Super Bravo?

BushMogulMaster
03-12-2007, 10:03 PM
If Spring Fling, and Stiens are really going to be the spring trails, how about just running the VH chair instead of Super Bravo?

PITA getting to it.

Mike_451
03-13-2007, 01:23 AM
Coffee Run?

They could also set up a Carpet lift to make it easy to get to the chair at the begining of the day.

win
03-13-2007, 09:04 AM
Reasonable people will always have a difference of opinions! That is what makes life interesting. There are good reasons why both mountains are good for late skiing. The economics of this business don't allow us to keep running both base areas. I would love to see more skiiers and riders in April, but history shows that the vast majority of people move to other activities after March. Our decision to go to LP this year was out belief that the base area will be a more fun spot for most. We made a lot of extra snow on Stein's, Snowball, Spring Fling and Coffee run before the Valentine's Day dump, and we think we have set those trails up for excellent Spring Skiing and Riding. We will run Bravo and Heaven's Gate as long as the snow cover allows and after that we can run Valley House to access the trails I mentioned before.

All ME passes will be honored at LP this Spring once ME closes on Sunday, April 1st. We will also be putting 07/08 season passes on sale later this week and any NEW passholder will be able to ski & ride at LP this April. There are a couple of new ticket offering, so check out the web later this week.

Tin Woodsman
03-13-2007, 09:06 AM
Reasonable people will always have a difference of opinions! That is what makes life interesting. There are good reasons why both mountains are good for late skiing. The economics of this business don't allow us to keep running both base areas. I would love to see more skiiers and riders in April, but history shows that the vast majority of people move to other activities after March. Our decision to go to LP this year was out belief that the base area will be a more fun spot for most. We made a lot of extra snow on Stein's, Snowball, Spring Fling and Coffee run before the Valentine's Day dump, and we think we have set those trails up for excellent Spring Skiing and Riding. We will run Bravo and Heaven's Gate as long as the snow cover allows and after that we can run Valley House to access the trails I mentioned before.

All ME passes will be honored at LP this Spring once ME closes on Sunday, April 1st. We will also be putting 07/08 season passes on sale later this week and any NEW passholder will be able to ski & ride at LP this April. There are a couple of new ticket offering, so check out the web later this week.

Well, I'm not thrilled about the first paragraph, though it's true reasonable people can disagree. Definitely excited to hear about the 2nd paragraph.

smootharc
03-13-2007, 09:13 AM
....chewing this over in my head (always a scary thought) and I'm gonna try to give this Spring's late season plan a fair chance.

It will be interesting to see how long things last at South, as I think a major inducement to Season's Pass sales was SB's increasingly long (and competitively long compared to neighbor's) season. What will current and long time pass holders think if that is shortened, even if only for 2-3 weeks, and if the quality of spring at south doesn't match up to what we all know the top of Ellen can deliver ? Does the perceived value of a pass go down in (granted, mostly the core skier's) mind ?

My biggest disappointment may be corny, but losing the views in spring off Mt. Ellen, to all points of the compass....with valleys green and verdant below, and mountain ranges still snow capped....well, those views matched anything I've seen anywhere, and I liked them alot.....sort of spiritual. Get off the lift, take a look around, smile to the other sunglass clad skiers...and off you go. I just got a warm, fuzzy feeling up top at Ellen in spring. Contented....

Anyways, time to leave the poetry to the poets.

03-13-2007, 09:19 AM
....chewing this over in my head (always a scary thought) and I'm gonna try to give this Spring's late season plan a fair chance.

It will be interesting to see how long things last at South, as I think a major inducement to Season's Pass sales was SB's increasingly long (and competitively long compared to neighbor's) season. What will current and long time pass holders think if that is shortened, even if only for 2-3 weeks, and if the quality of spring at south doesn't match up to what we all know the top of Ellen can deliver ? Does the perceived value of a pass go down in (granted, mostly the core skier's) mind ?
Well said. At times people forget this is a business. Count your blessings that Sugarbush knows how to acheive a good balance between acheving their financial targets and keeping the customers happy. Some ski areas don't.

saabski
03-13-2007, 10:30 AM
Win wrote: All ME passes will be honored at LP this Spring once ME closes on Sunday, April 1st.

I am a little sorry to see ME closing the weekend before Easter; as a passholder (weekender) my habit this year has been ME Sat and LP Sunday ....... no matter, I like both.
http://upload7.postimage.org/181257/4_30RimRun.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/181257/photo_hosting.html)

I am not much of a bump skier, so I am HOPING Snowball/Spring Fling can hold up like Rim Run/Looking Good have in the past! (like last year - photo above from 4/30/06)

Looking fwd to the posting of 07/08 options on the website. Hopefully it'll be noted in the morning email communication, as while I read that every day, I don't check the website that often.......

ski_resort_observer
03-13-2007, 12:54 PM
You can talk about why Mellon is the better mountain for spring skiing till the cows come home and still isn't going change the fact that when going beyond our personal preferences, looking at the bigger picture, having LP open for the spring is the way to go. It's a slam dunk IMHO.

The vast majority of the skiers who come to the Bush prefer LP, just look at the parking lots on a busy Sat this past month or so. The only reason Mellon's parking lot got full is because all of LP's parking lots got filled, the main lot, the two new overflow lots, 22 acres, the Warren House lot, people had to go park at ME to be at LP. Even tho you and I prefer going to ME most of the guests want to be at LP.

As many of you know grabbing the destination skiers is key to any resort's financial health. This is not just folks who come for the weekend and during the holidays but people who share a house for the season, people who own second homes in the valley. Excluding the house share folks as I feel many of them are pretty hardcore skiers/riders, it been a well know fact for several years that the destination skiers don't come for the skiing as the number one reason, it's not even the second most important reason. If this was not the case ME would be alot busier than it is.

The vast majority of the Bush's guests want to be at LP, they don't care if the conditions would have been abit better at ME. It's not just folks at Claybrook it's most guests/owners.

kcyanks1
03-13-2007, 01:01 PM
You can talk about why Mellon is the better mountain for spring skiing till the cows come home and still isn't going change the fact that when going beyond our personal preferences, looking at the bigger picture, having LP open for the spring is the way to go. It's a slam dunk IMHO.

The vast majority of the skiers who come to the Bush prefer LP, just look at the parking lots on a busy Sat this past month or so. The only reason Mellon's parking lot got full is because all of LP's parking lots got filled, the main lot, the two new overflow lots, 22 acres, the Warren House lot, people had to go park at ME to be at LP. Even tho you and I prefer going to ME most of the guests want to be at LP.

As many of you know grabbing the destination skiers is key to any resort's financial health. This is not just folks who come for the weekend and during the holidays but people who share a house for the season, people who own second homes in the valley. Excluding the house share folks as I feel many of them are pretty hardcore skiers/riders, it been a well know fact for several years that the destination skiers don't come for the skiing as the number one reason, it's not even the second most important reason. If this was not the case ME would be alot busier than it is.

The vast majority of the Bush's guests want to be at LP, they don't care if the conditions would have been abit better at ME. It's not just folks at Claybrook it's most guests/owners.

You might be right, but I don't think looking at what people do during the normal season is fair. I'd be one of those who would go to LP, park there, and ski there. I prefer to be there and like the terrain better (it's been a while since I've skied a lot of ME, I admit, but I've always preferred LP better). That applies until about mid-April. Then I realize that ME makes more sense for spring skiing and will offer better options for late season. Then I'd prefer to be at ME, unless of course it's a weird year and I can be skiing Paradise and Castlerock in late April or May :-) So just judging by what the majority of people are doing at the peak season doesn't really show what those same people would prefer for April.

Tin Woodsman
03-13-2007, 01:10 PM
You can talk about why Mellon is the better mountain for spring skiing till the cows come home and still isn't going change the fact that when going beyond our personal preferences, looking at the bigger picture, having LP open for the spring is the way to go. It's a slam dunk IMHO.

The vast majority of the skiers who come to the Bush prefer LP, just look at the parking lots on a busy Sat this past month or so. The only reason Mellon's parking lot got full is because all of LP's parking lots got filled, the main lot, the two new overflow lots, 22 acres, the Warren House lot, people had to go park at ME to be at LP. Even tho you and I prefer going to ME most of the guests want to be at LP.

As many of you know grabbing the destination skiers is key to any resort's financial health. This is not just folks who come for the weekend and during the holidays but people who share a house for the season, people who own second homes in the valley. Excluding the house share folks as I feel many of them are pretty hardcore skiers/riders, it been a well know fact for several years that the destination skiers don't come for the skiing as the number one reason, it's not even the second most important reason. If this was not the case ME would be alot busier than it is.

The vast majority of the Bush's guests want to be at LP, they don't care if the conditions would have been abit better at ME. It's not just folks at Claybrook it's most guests/owners.

They want to be at LP b/c LP has the steeps, gnarliness, variety, and serenity of Castlerock. It has some great cruisers like Snowball, Spring Fling, Birch Run, Hot Shot/Waterfall, Birdland, Jester and Lower OG. It has relentless steeps that go on for a LOOOOOOONG time like Spillsville, upper OG, Ripcord, Steins and all of CR. It has those great bumps on Morning Star, Twist, Moonshine, Steins, and all of CR. It has it all, and it has it in abundance. That's why people come to LP. ME has some short steeps like Black Diamond, FIS and Exterm, but they are largely lacking in character, with perhaps the exception of Bravo. The mid-mountain steeps are great for sure - Tumbler, Hammerhead, Encore - but limited. It has the best cruising around, but Cruiser, Northway and Which Way are so similar as to lack character. Lower FIS and the trails leading in are seldom open, and don't get me started on the walk out. And then Inverness and Brambles are so often off-limits due to GMVS (and don't get me started on the lower part of Brambles). The point is that while ME has many things in its favor and is a fine mountain, it pales in comparison to its neighbors to the north and south with respect to variety of terrain and overall attractiveness for the majority of skiers.

The reason I write this diatribe is b/c that equation goes completely out the window when you are talking about late season skiing. CR, the VH naturals, North Lynx and Gate House are gone. You're left with several north facing runs off Bravo and HG. Guess what, remember how for most of December and early January ME was skiing FAR better than LP (don't even try to deny it)? That's the situation you should be comparing things to, not mid-winter condtions with most of not everything open. LP becomes a lot less interesting when its just Ripcord, Paradise (maybe), Spills, OG, Jester, Snowball, Steins, Deathspout, Spring Fling, and Murphys. Compared to a later season ME with FIS, Black Diamond, Rim Run, Elbow, Lookin Good, Cruiser, Cliffs, Which Way, Northway, Exterminator, and Bravo, the choice isn't nearly as clear.

ski_resort_observer
03-13-2007, 01:34 PM
You can talk about why Mellon is the better mountain for spring skiing till the cows come home and still isn't going change the fact that when going beyond our personal preferences, looking at the bigger picture, having LP open for the spring is the way to go. It's a slam dunk IMHO.

The vast majority of the skiers who come to the Bush prefer LP, just look at the parking lots on a busy Sat this past month or so. The only reason Mellon's parking lot got full is because all of LP's parking lots got filled, the main lot, the two new overflow lots, 22 acres, the Warren House lot, people had to go park at ME to be at LP. Even tho you and I prefer going to ME most of the guests want to be at LP.

As many of you know grabbing the destination skiers is key to any resort's financial health. This is not just folks who come for the weekend and during the holidays but people who share a house for the season, people who own second homes in the valley. Excluding the house share folks as I feel many of them are pretty hardcore skiers/riders, it been a well know fact for several years that the destination skiers don't come for the skiing as the number one reason, it's not even the second most important reason. If this was not the case ME would be alot busier than it is.

The vast majority of the Bush's guests want to be at LP, they don't care if the conditions would have been abit better at ME. It's not just folks at Claybrook it's most guests/owners.

They want to be at LP b/c LP has the steeps, gnarliness, variety, and serenity of Castlerock. It has some great cruisers like Snowball, Spring Fling, Birch Run, Hot Shot/Waterfall, Birdland, Jester and Lower OG. It has relentless steeps that go on for a LOOOOOOONG time like Spillsville, upper OG, Ripcord, Steins and all of CR. It has those great bumps on Morning Star, Twist, Moonshine, Steins, and all of CR. It has it all, and it has it in abundance. That's why people come to LP. ME has some short steeps like Black Diamond, FIS and Exterm, but they are largely lacking in character, with perhaps the exception of Bravo. The mid-mountain steeps are great for sure - Tumbler, Hammerhead, Encore - but limited. It has the best cruising around, but Cruiser, Northway and Which Way are so similar as to lack character. Lower FIS and the trails leading in are seldom open, and don't get me started on the walk out. And then Inverness and Brambles are so often off-limits due to GMVS (and don't get me started on the lower part of Brambles). The point is that while ME has many things in its favor and is a fine mountain, it pales in comparison to its neighbors to the north and south with respect to variety of terrain and overall attractiveness for the majority of skiers.

The reason I write this diatribe is b/c that equation goes completely out the window when you are talking about late season skiing. CR, the VH naturals, North Lynx and Gate House are gone. You're left with several north facing runs off Bravo and HG. Guess what, remember how for most of December and early January ME was skiing FAR better than LP (don't even try to deny it)? That's the situation you should be comparing things to, not mid-winter condtions with most of not everything open. LP becomes a lot less interesting when its just Ripcord, Paradise (maybe), Spills, OG, Jester, Snowball, Steins, Deathspout, Spring Fling, and Murphys. Compared to a later season ME with FIS, Black Diamond, Rim Run, Elbow, Lookin Good, Cruiser, Cliffs, Which Way, Northway, Exterminator, and Bravo, the choice isn't nearly as clear.

Again, your just talking about the skiing, I agree with your in depth analysis about the ski conditions, my point is the picture that has to be looked at is much much bigger than just that. Just one of the many reasons your not considering is the parking lots. LP's lot is paved, ME's parking lot can be a major hassle in the spring. Even last December we had to push some cars out of the mud at ME.

I never said the ski conditions are better at LP in the spring, never said ME isn't set up for holding snow better April/May, your getting all worked up over nothing. Must be a slow day at the office. :D

The landscape has changed, spring skiing is not a busy time overall anymore. Even Kmart has finally figured that out as their planned closing date is May 6th this year.

saabski
03-13-2007, 01:53 PM
well said, Tin. I am one of those 2nd home owner/guests and my preference is to ski where the snow will be best on any given weekend, factoring in crowds, possible wind holds etc. ME (Mellon? I like that!) wins come mid-April on elevation and exposure.
LP may win with ambiance but at the end of day, it's the snow that draws people late season, no?

WHichever is open, I think Sugarbush will have the chance to really capture the April skiers this year. With ownership changes at K, who knows how late they plan to run..... and I had an email from Bretton Woods (who beat K last year for late ops) that indicates tentative close at 4/15. I know, I know most 'Bush afficionados would not be caught dead at either, but I am always on the lookout for late season lift-served options......

getting colder later in the week. yay.

freeheel_skier
03-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Again, your just talking about the skiing, my point is the picture that has to be looked at is much much bigger than just that. Just one of the many reasons your not considering is the parking lots. LP's lot is paved, ME's parking lot can be a major hassle in the spring

I think when we talk about "late" or April skiing, we are talking about a slightly different clientele than say Jan/Feb skiers who plan week/weekend trips. Most people who ski late season are the diehards or property owners in the Valley. We (I) only care about "the skiing". If the skiing was better @ LP in April I would be saying "AMEN"!!!! I think many people would be saying the same thing. We would be praising Summit Ventures for this stellar slam dunk idea........This is not the case. No matter how you slice it, late skiing is about the conditions. It is also about drinking beer and eating bbq on a deck or decks! 8)

I had to add the deck thing :P

ahm
03-13-2007, 02:45 PM
Yep, LP is it. Best place on a pow day, best place for corn and steeps. Stay away from old mt ellen and those pesky GMVS'ers. There are no trees at North, no bumps, no character and oh my god, you have to walk up from the parking lot, and yes it is not paved, and that may get your audi dirty. So, great move on the LP closer, your car will stay clean and Alpine Options and Mt side will get the benefit of tuning your skis due to the power melt out that will occur at the base......

freeheel_skier
03-13-2007, 02:56 PM
:lol:


and that may get your audi dirty

"Porterhouse!!!!! There is a brown audi parked in my spot. Call a tow truck and have it hauled away immediately!"

ski_resort_observer
03-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Yep, LP is it. Best place on a pow day, best place for corn and steeps. Stay away from old mt ellen and those pesky GMVS'ers. There are no trees at North, no bumps, no character and oh my god, you have to walk up from the parking lot, and yes it is not paved, and that may get your audi dirty. So, great move on the LP closer, your car will stay clean and Alpine Options and Mt side will get the benefit of tuning your skis due to the power melt out that will occur at the base......

Except that where you will be parking it is paved as well. Skinning up and having Mellen to yourself sounds pretty bad! :wink: :lol:

skiladi
03-13-2007, 09:25 PM
Yep, LP is it. Best place on a pow day, best place for corn and steeps. Stay away from old mt ellen and those pesky GMVS'ers. There are no trees at North, no bumps, no character and oh my god, you have to walk up from the parking lot, and yes it is not paved, and that may get your audi dirty. So, great move on the LP closer, your car will stay clean and Alpine Options and Mt side will get the benefit of tuning your skis due to the power melt out that will occur at the base......

Well , you could have company at Mount Ellen. And people could still park on pavement. And the employees could keep their jobs. And we could have decks and bbqs and Win could still save $ and still keep the masses happy. We could push a little of that stockpile at the top of Gatehouse around and run the Slidebrook back and forth. I haven't been on it all year!! I have been under it. ; } We could download on GH and have the top of ME back. FIS was sweet today. Close the bottom of ME and keep the top open That would impress the s--t out of everyone. What would you need? 6-10 employees and patrol coverage. Or am I dreaming??

BushMogulMaster
03-13-2007, 09:39 PM
Or am I dreaming??

Yes.

:lol:

random_ski_guy
03-13-2007, 09:42 PM
:lol:


and that may get your audi dirty

"Porterhouse!!!!! There is a brown audi parked in my spot. Call a tow truck and have it hauled away immediately!"

And shine my shoes! -hillarious

ahm
03-14-2007, 04:39 AM
Once it closes, I will bring my grill to the ME deck along with a nice big cooler of bevs, a boom box and all those wanting to hike/skin for those big FIS, BD, Exterm and Bravo bumps can just join in the fun. The sunsets will be the same, just no lifts. It'll help get me in shape for Sorcerer..................... :lol:

Lostone
03-14-2007, 07:59 AM
b...b... b... boombox?? :shock:

No Ipod docking station?? :roll:

How.. 90s! :P

Tin Woodsman
03-14-2007, 08:04 AM
It's true. Here is a pic of AHM preparing to hit Upper FIS last year after the lifts closed:
http://www.quadmag.com/ten/gallery/images/boombox.jpg

BushMogulMaster
03-14-2007, 08:04 AM
b...b... b... boombox?? :shock:

No Ipod docking station?? :roll:

How.. 90s! :P


:lol:


I was thinking of bringing some 78s and a portable phonograph! :wink:

noski
03-14-2007, 09:11 AM
I have a ton of 8 tracks, can I bring those?

ahm
03-14-2007, 12:39 PM
That was at the new Lincoln Peak village, see all those faux buildings in the background. I think I see no ski in the pink halter and castlerock in the plaid shorts.................But after the run, my hair was slowing me down, so I cut it. Here's a new shot for your album Tin.
http://upload7.postimage.org/200823/LaGrave07029.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/200823/photo_hosting.html)

Tin Woodsman
03-14-2007, 02:11 PM
That was at the new Lincoln Peak village, see all those faux buildings in the background. I think I see no ski in the pink halter and castlerock in the plaid shorts.................But after the run, my hair was slowing me down, so I cut it. Here's a new shot for your album Tin.
http://upload7.postimage.org/200823/LaGrave07029.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/200823/photo_hosting.html)

that's the headwall of Pushover before they start blasting it with manmade snow, right?

BushMogulMaster
03-14-2007, 02:29 PM
That was at the new Lincoln Peak village, see all those faux buildings in the background. I think I see no ski in the pink halter and castlerock in the plaid shorts.................But after the run, my hair was slowing me down, so I cut it. Here's a new shot for your album Tin.
http://upload7.postimage.org/200823/LaGrave07029.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/200823/photo_hosting.html)

that's the headwall of Pushover before they start blasting it with manmade snow, right?

Looks more like the First Time headwall to me.

:wink:

noski
03-14-2007, 02:45 PM
I think I see no ski in the pink halter Ummmm.....I am pretty sure that wasn't me...

freeheel_skier
03-14-2007, 07:18 PM
Got this in my inbox today:






Dear Mt. Ellen passholder:

What a year it has been! While the season may have started slowly, Sugarbush has picked up 9 FEET of snow since February. The skiing and riding have been terrific and we are looking at some of the best spring conditions we have had in years.

We will send out a more detailed letter to all Sugarbush passholders next week, but as a Mt. Ellen passholder, we wanted to make sure you knew of an important change in our late season operation. With the tremendous amount of new snow we have received and the success of the new Lincoln Peak Village, we have decided to move late-season skiing and riding back to Lincoln Peak. Many of you may recall Lincoln Peak has been the late season mountain in past years, and with the new patios, BBQ pit and restaurants, we believe this year is the perfect time to move the spring party back to where it all began. Mt. Ellen passes will be valid at Lincoln Peak beginning Monday April 2nd and will be good through the end of this season. We intend to make Lincoln Peak the late-season mountain every year. With this change, we would like to offer Mt. Ellen fans a way to partake in future spring fun.

New for the 2007-08 season, the Mt. Ellen Plus pass will give holders not only access to Mt. Ellen's 42 trails and 7 wooded areas, but will also include five All-Mountain day tickets and will be valid at Lincoln Peak when Mt. Ellen closes for the year. As always, kids 12 and under will receive a free season pass identical to the one their parent or legal guardian purchases.

We will provide more color on the Mt. Ellen pass next week on www.sugarbush.com. In the meantime, we look forward to seeing you at Mt. Ellen through April 1st and at Lincoln Peak beginning April 2nd.

Best regards,

Adam Greshin
Guest and Community Relations
Sugarbush Resort, Inc.

saabski
03-15-2007, 08:07 AM
......... Many of you may recall Lincoln Peak has been the late season mountain in past years, ........


New for the 2007-08 season, the Mt. Ellen Plus pass will give holders not only access to Mt. Ellen's 42 trails and 7 wooded areas, but will also include five All-Mountain day tickets and will be valid at Lincoln Peak when Mt. Ellen closes for the year.

LP the late season mt? Only when ASC was in charge! Those with longer term memories (ie us old folks!) have a different recollection.

But, I DO like the sound of the proposed 07-08 ME Plus pass! Looking forward to the pass details when they become available! And even better, the weather report (after today) looks great!
Friday Night: Snow. Heavy snow accumulation possible. Lows around 19. North winds 5 to 10 mph. Chance of snow 90 percent

castlerock
03-15-2007, 09:07 AM
That was at the new Lincoln Peak village, see all those faux buildings in the background. I think I see no ski in the pink halter and castlerock in the plaid shorts.................But after the run, my hair was slowing me down, so I cut it. Here's a new shot for your album Tin.

Uhhhh. Al that was my kilt, not shorts...

skibum1321
03-15-2007, 10:44 AM
It's been a while since I've posted but I'm coming out of retirement, even if it is just for today...

I don't think the ME Plus pass sounds nearly as good as the ME Pass this year. It says you can ski 5 days at LP after ME closes. This year, you can ski unlimited days at LP after ME closes. They are actually giving you less than this year. This also assumes that LP will once again be the late season mountain (I thought they would see how things go this year before making that decision).

Back to my work induced haze...

kcyanks1
03-15-2007, 10:46 AM
It's been a while since I've posted but I'm coming out of retirement, even if it is just for today...

I don't think the ME Plus pass sounds nearly as good as the ME Pass this year. It says you can ski 5 days at LP after ME closes. This year, you can ski unlimited days at LP after ME closes. They are actually giving you less than this year. This also assumes that LP will once again be the late season mountain (I thought they would see how things go this year before making that decision).

Back to my work induced haze...

My impression was that you can ski 5 days at LP *anytime* during the year, and every day after ME closes. This is also the ME "Plus" pass, so I suspect they might also have a regular ME pass that doesn't allow you to ski at LP at all, but that's just my guess.

castlerock
03-15-2007, 10:54 AM
yes, one could read it both ways...
which is it?

Tin Woodsman
03-15-2007, 12:12 PM
It's been a while since I've posted but I'm coming out of retirement, even if it is just for today...

I don't think the ME Plus pass sounds nearly as good as the ME Pass this year. It says you can ski 5 days at LP after ME closes. This year, you can ski unlimited days at LP after ME closes. They are actually giving you less than this year. This also assumes that LP will once again be the late season mountain (I thought they would see how things go this year before making that decision).

Back to my work induced haze...

My impression was that you can ski 5 days at LP *anytime* during the year, and every day after ME closes. This is also the ME "Plus" pass, so I suspect they might also have a regular ME pass that doesn't allow you to ski at LP at all, but that's just my guess.

I'm not sure how it could be interpreted any other way aside from how Kenny characterized it. You get all ME all the time, plus 5 all-mountain days plus all the days at LP after ME closes. It does say "and" between those latter to, so I think the intent is pretty clear. Good catch on the name of the pass too. I suspect they'll have a plain vanilla ME pass with no LP privileges that's dirt cheap and then this one too. I like it - more price points and choices to serve differing needs.

ski_resort_observer
03-15-2007, 12:32 PM
FWIW before 1979 LP was the spring mountain every year at the Bush cause the Bush was only LP pre 1979. So to many Bush old timers it's going back to the original Sugarbush which is pretty cool.

win
03-15-2007, 02:18 PM
Tin is correct as usual. It is 5 All-Mountain tickets anytime during the season PLUS skiing at LP after ME closes!

shadyjay
03-15-2007, 03:53 PM
Tin is correct as usual. It is 5 All-Mountain tickets anytime during the season PLUS skiing at LP after ME closes!

That sounds like an awesome deal - so long as it doesn't tack on a few extra hundred $$$ to the price. Thanks for the info Win (btw, its great having you on this board - how many other heads of resorts are on a forum such as this where they can interact directly with their customers - it shows you really care :-) )

Tin Woodsman
03-15-2007, 04:05 PM
Tin is correct as usual. It is 5 All-Mountain tickets anytime during the season PLUS skiing at LP after ME closes!

Credit must go to Kenny, as he identified it first, but I'm not going to argue... :D :D :Dk


Now if I can only get Win to answer in a similar manner after one of my Gate House Lodge rants.

kcyanks1
03-15-2007, 04:30 PM
Tin is correct as usual. It is 5 All-Mountain tickets anytime during the season PLUS skiing at LP after ME closes!

Credit must go to Kenny, as he identified it first, but I'm not going to argue... :D :D :Dk


Now if I can only get Win to answer in a similar manner after one of my Gate House Lodge rants.

Thanks :-)

kcyanks1
03-15-2007, 04:48 PM
Tin is correct as usual. It is 5 All-Mountain tickets anytime during the season PLUS skiing at LP after ME closes!

Credit must go to Kenny, as he identified it first, but I'm not going to argue... :D :D :Dk


Now if I can only get Win to answer in a similar manner after one of my Gate House Lodge rants.

Thanks :-)

I have to defend SB at all costs as the only time I met Win it was after a day of skiing MRG :-)

freeheel_skier
03-15-2007, 11:55 PM
FWIW before 1979 LP was the spring mountain every year at the Bush cause the Bush was only LP pre 1979. So to many Bush old timers it's going back to the original Sugarbush which is pretty cool.

No. Coolness factor isn't there. :( It doesn't involve the VH or a sunny deck of any manner......I cut my teeth @ LP as a tike in '79.....Probably still had poop in my pants. But that is a different story for a different time....Ahhh the good ole days!


All I want is some good snow....if it is there great...I won't biatch. If LP looks like my yard right now then we all have a problem. :shock:

skibum1321
03-16-2007, 07:41 AM
It's been a while since I've posted but I'm coming out of retirement, even if it is just for today...

I don't think the ME Plus pass sounds nearly as good as the ME Pass this year. It says you can ski 5 days at LP after ME closes. This year, you can ski unlimited days at LP after ME closes. They are actually giving you less than this year. This also assumes that LP will once again be the late season mountain (I thought they would see how things go this year before making that decision).

Back to my work induced haze...

My impression was that you can ski 5 days at LP *anytime* during the year, and every day after ME closes. This is also the ME "Plus" pass, so I suspect they might also have a regular ME pass that doesn't allow you to ski at LP at all, but that's just my guess.

I'm not sure how it could be interpreted any other way aside from how Kenny characterized it. You get all ME all the time, plus 5 all-mountain days plus all the days at LP after ME closes. It does say "and" between those latter to, so I think the intent is pretty clear. Good catch on the name of the pass too. I suspect they'll have a plain vanilla ME pass with no LP privileges that's dirt cheap and then this one too. I like it - more price points and choices to serve differing needs.

I still think that it could be read either way, but it does sound like a good deal this way. FWIW, I interpreted it as "you have 5 tickets and the only time you can use them is after ME closes".

I'm finally coming back to the Bush next year (probably). Smuggs is a great mountain, but I sure do miss skiing at the Bush. Now I just need to find a ski house for next season...

sasquatch
03-16-2007, 02:16 PM
Ummmm...

quote=win...It is 5 All-Mountain tickets anytime during the season PLUS skiing at LP after ME closes!...end quote

shadyjay
03-18-2007, 08:51 PM
Even though the Plus price was a little higher than the traditional ME pass, I just went for it. I thought about it, but for the extra $150 or so, I get 5 all-mtn tickets. If you buy those at the window, you're looking at $300 (being conservative at $60/ticket).

Forget driving all the way down south next winter.... my mtn is the Bush and that's where I'll be.

TOS
03-20-2007, 11:18 AM
This week is a perfect example of my concern for the snowpack on the spring trails at LP (Steins, etc.).

I looked at the mountain's WX for the week, and the temps are going to kill lower mountain. Base temps a couple of days will be in the 42-50 degree range, mid temps in the 38-45 range, but with summit temps remain in the 32-38 range. This is why ME always worked... Summit holds snow on ME unlike any other place on the mountain. While Steins is melting and becoming a river, the corn bumps on FIS will be perfect -- and I'll be having a BBQ on the Glen House deck! :D

I realize that it's going to cool off again, but this is an indication of how April will be... 45-50 degrees at the base, and still 30-40 at the summits. It's simple logic... the snow melts more quickly on lower mountain (significantly, actually).

I am with you on this one! I've been banging my head since it was official LP will be the late mountain. I could care less about being able to walk from Timbers over to the Castlerock Pub smelling the bbq on the "patio" looking @ the old VH lodge. I'd rather be skiing a "quality" product. :roll: I will be earning my turns @ ME.....just sooner that expected :wink:

You guys have summed up nicely how I feel about this. I was looking foward to skiing FIS with my kids. When the GMX was extended up to the Summit Chair, I was estatic. I figured it was done so ME could reclaim it's title as the premier spring skiing spot. I am horrified. I couldn't care less about having a beer at Timbers. I want to party at the Ellen House, like we did last year. Win, please reconsider. At least reopen ME when LP goes to slop.

summitchallenger
03-20-2007, 07:24 PM
Makes no sense considering:

* Ellen was originally conceived and set up for early and late season skiing.
* Ellen has the natural elevation, exposure, temperature, and climate advantages.
* ASC LEARNED the HARD way that LP is not great for pre-season or late season skiing because of elevation, exposure, and lift configuration.

And...

* Didn't Summit Ventures spend a lot of $$$$ to get the GMX back into place specifically for pre and late season skiing????? So now we revert? That makes no business-sense because the millions that have already been spent in the GMX.

Makes not much sense....except that there are a relative small # of deep pockets who now live at the base of LP and probably demanded that LP stay open for them because the five minute bus ride (heaven forbid) or the drive in the car (don't want to get the beamer dirty) was too much.

No offense intended. Just MHO. Win and company have been great about listening to folks and adjusting course. I just think that this is a time to re-adjust course.

BushMogulMaster
03-20-2007, 07:48 PM
Makes no sense considering:

* Ellen was originally conceived and set up for early and late season skiing.

I'm not sure that Ellen was originally conceived as such since it was initially it's own independent ski area.



* Ellen has the natural elevation, exposure, temperature, and climate advantages.

You've got that right. The spring skiing at ME is above 3000', and that makes a 10-15 degree temp difference, and about a 2 week longer skiable season.




* ASC LEARNED the HARD way that LP is not great for pre-season or late season skiing because of elevation, exposure, and lift configuration.

Also very true. It's too bad we have to relive this. Oh well...




And...

* Didn't Summit Ventures spend a lot of $$$$ to get the GMX back into place specifically for pre and late season skiing????? So now we revert? That makes no business-sense because the millions that have already been spent in the GMX.

Hmmm... not sure this was really the primary reason. I think it had more to do with the fact that the GMQ (the slug) was so slow and didn't access any terrain that anyone really wanted to ski. Three lifts to get to the summit is not looked upon kindly. Although it was placed well for easy access to North Ridge and beginner terrain, it didn't make much sense otherwise. I'm sure pre and late season skiing was a factor in the decision, but not the primary reason. [/quote]




Makes not much sense....except that there are a relative small # of deep pockets who now live at the base of LP and probably demanded that LP stay open for them because the five minute bus ride (heaven forbid) or the drive in the car (don't want to get the beamer dirty) was too much.

No offense intended. Just MHO. Win and company have been great about listening to folks and adjusting course. I just think that this is a time to re-adjust course.

:lol: I agree with much of what you're saying. however:

It's too late for a re-adjust this year. Just follow this year through, and then see what Win and Co. do for the coming years. The plan as of now is for LP to be the late mountain indefinitely, but I feel (actually, hope) that this will be reconsidered after seeing what happens to the base on lower mt at LP, and seeing that spring skiers in general want a different product than is available at LP. What good will all the extra snow on Stein's be when the current 3 foot or so base on Coffee Run and Gondolier disappear?

As much as I disagree with the decision that has been made, it must be understood the gravity and significance of the investment that was made on the South side. For me, this does not justify harming the quality of the ski experience, however I can understand and sympathize with the reasons Win feels that he needs to make something of this investment in the spring, and follow through with what was essentially promised to Claybrook residents (ski on ski off and spring skiing).

From my reading, research, and those to whom I've spoken, the spring skiing market is one that generally couldn't care less about the frills. The typical spring skier is one who wants a quality ski product over lavish posh base amenities. He is looking for trails that still have good cover, and often looking for steep corn bumps. He wants a SUNNY deck to sit on where he can have a beer and a BBQ and overlook the whole operating mountain watching people skiing and enjoying the experience. This skier is a person who is dedicated to his sport, and enjoys his day on the hill so much that downloading does not bother him. In fact, he is relieved to have this opportunity to take a break and enjoy the ride down. He is the kind of skier who wants Mt. Ellen in the spring, because it offers all of these things and then some.

Just one guy's crazy opinion, though. I will respect whatever Win does, and I will be open minded about it. However, I do not foresee anything changing my opinion on this situation. It just seems like common sense for ME to be the spring mountain, but I'll try out LP. I still plan to hike ME quite regularly!

win
03-20-2007, 08:06 PM
Here is my last word on the subject, and then I look forward to seeing all of you for at least the next six weeks.

ME held more snow for a simple reason. Extra snowmaking allowed it. The top of Rim Run is affectionately called "Baldy" for a simple reason. The Spring Sun hits its hard and it requires a lot of extra snowmaking to hold this trail in the Spring. The same is true of Lower Rim Run and the area called the "Mid-Flats" around the Glen House which will turn to Slush if there is not extra snowmaking in anticipation of Spring and creative grooming. In the past we made the extra snow to keep ME going up top and the new GMX allowed for downloading. This year we made the extra snow on Stein's, Snowball, Spring Fling and Coffee Run. We will keep Bravo and Heaven's Gate running as long as snow cover allows and then switch to Valley House to access the trails mentioned, so there will be no need to download. I have been skiing here (not riding yet) for over 30 years, and there are good arguments for both Mountains to stay as the Spring mountain. This year, I have elected to go for LP. Some of the best Spring runs I have had in past years have been on Stein's, and I personally think it is the equal of FIS in the Spring. We will keep GMX and Summit in reserve, so if we are wrong, we can do an "audible". Everyone will have their own opinion, but I am convinced that we will have terrific skiing and riding at LP through April! So try it and let me know what you think

BushMogulMaster
03-20-2007, 08:18 PM
Here is my last word on the subject, and then I look forward to seeing all of you for at least the next six weeks.

ME held more snow for a simple reason. Extra snowmaking allowed it. The top of Rim Run is affectionately called "Baldy" for a simple reason. The Spring Sun hits its hard and it requires a lot of extra snowmaking to hold this trail in the Spring. The same is true of Lower Rim Run and the area called the "Mid-Flats" around the Glen House which will turn to Slush if there is not extra snowmaking in anticipation of Spring and creative grooming. In the past we made the extra snow to keep ME going up top and the new GMX allowed for downloading. This year we made the extra snow on Stein's, Snowball, Spring Fling and Coffee Run. We will keep Bravo and Heaven's Gate running as long as snow cover allows and then switch to Valley House to access the trails mentioned, so there will be no need to download. I have been skiing here (not riding yet) for over 30 years, and there are good arguments for both Mountains to stay as the Spring mountain. This year, I have elected to go for LP. Some of the best Spring runs I have had in past years have been on Stein's, and I personally think it is the equal of FIS in the Spring. We will keep GMX and Summit in reserve, so if we are wrong, we can do an "audible". Everyone will have their own opinion, but I am convinced that we will have terrific skiing and riding at LP through April! So try it and let me know what you think

For the mountain's sake, I hope you're right, Win! I'm definitely game to try it out. Glad to hear GMX and Summit will be in reserve, though!

I'm not a huge Stein's fan, so that's part of the reason I personally don't want to ski as much at South for the spring. But, like I said, I'll try it out and let you know. Maybe I'll even catch you on the hill and make some turns with you... like I said before, I always see you around the base, but seem to miss you on the hill!

freeheel_skier
03-20-2007, 10:18 PM
Here is my last word on the subject, and then I look forward to seeing all of you for at least the next six weeks.

ME held more snow for a simple reason. Extra snowmaking allowed it. The top of Rim Run is affectionately called "Baldy" for a simple reason. The Spring Sun hits its hard and it requires a lot of extra snowmaking to hold this trail in the Spring. The same is true of Lower Rim Run and the area called the "Mid-Flats" around the Glen House which will turn to Slush if there is not extra snowmaking in anticipation of Spring and creative grooming. In the past we made the extra snow to keep ME going up top and the new GMX allowed for downloading. This year we made the extra snow on Stein's, Snowball, Spring Fling and Coffee Run. We will keep Bravo and Heaven's Gate running as long as snow cover allows and then switch to Valley House to access the trails mentioned, so there will be no need to download. I have been skiing here (not riding yet) for over 30 years, and there are good arguments for both Mountains to stay as the Spring mountain. This year, I have elected to go for LP. Some of the best Spring runs I have had in past years have been on Stein's, and I personally think it is the equal of FIS in the Spring. We will keep GMX and Summit in reserve, so if we are wrong, we can do an "audible". Everyone will have their own opinion, but I am convinced that we will have terrific skiing and riding at LP through April! So try it and let me know what you think

For the mountain's sake, I hope you're right, Win! I'm definitely game to try it out. Glad to hear GMX and Summit will be in reserve, though!

I'm not a huge Stein's fan, so that's part of the reason I personally don't want to ski as much at South for the spring. But, like I said, I'll try it out and let you know. Maybe I'll even catch you on the hill and make some turns with you... like I said before, I always see you around the base, but seem to miss you on the hill!

I agree with the Stein's comment. FIS is great and Looking good when bumped up is stellar too.....

As for making the extra snow where needed @ LP....what's the difference when it is all gone???? ME still has skiable snow. :?

Tin Woodsman
03-20-2007, 11:45 PM
Win, I respectfully disagree, but I appreciate the detailed explanation.

With the option remaining to call that audible, it seems you've left yourself some wiggle room, which is a good thing, and a smart business move.

BushMogulMaster
03-21-2007, 07:05 AM
As for making the extra snow where needed @ LP....what's the difference when it is all gone???? ME still has skiable snow. :?

Precisely my feeling.

I'm still conviced based on the laws of nature that ME's elevation plays a huge role for spring skiing.

Mike_451
03-21-2007, 05:02 PM
There is more than enough snow at the top of Mt Ellen to keep things going, alot more than whatever extra is usually made. Everybody knows the spring skiing at the top of Mt Ellen is better. I give things a 50/50 chance of ending at either mountain at this point. I hope Win is right, but everyone I have discussed this with has the opposite opinion.

TOS
03-22-2007, 01:43 PM
Thanks Win. It is nice to know that an Audible is an option.
See you on the hill.

madhavok
03-25-2007, 07:25 PM
Skied Mount Ellen this weekend. Great spring conditions and they still have a solid base, didn't see any bare spots. Anyone ski LP this weekend? How is it holding up?

Sugaree
03-25-2007, 08:56 PM
Skied Mount Ellen this weekend. Great spring conditions and they still have a solid base, didn't see any bare spots. Anyone ski LP this weekend? How is it holding up?

I skied LP on Friday and Saturday, and it was great. Lots of corn snow. Other than the bottom section of Liftline, the Castlerock runout and Murphys, everything was holding up really well. Highlights were Sunrise, Middle Earth, Paradise, Ripcord, and Steins!!!

TimKeogh
03-26-2007, 05:47 PM
Yes, my son skiied middle earth and said it was great on sunday. He was only over at LP for a little while considering how much better ME was. Also he said Cliffs, Tumbler, Hammerhead had tons of snow. THey really should rethink this and have ME open longer. I might go a few more times if they would.

BushMogulMaster
03-26-2007, 06:05 PM
I'm not going to put down management for the decision that was made, but I must point out that right now, there is SIGNIFICANTLY more snow at Mt. Ellen. I even saw a bare patch or two appearing on Stein's. Black Diamond (usually closed by now) at ME has complete coverage and great depth, not to mention the amazing amount of snow on FIS. I understand the reasons that they want to try LP this year, but just go outside and have a look at the mountains, or measure some depths and the better spring mountain is obvious: ME is in much much much better shape right now. The only problem spots are the Inverness pod (due to exposure) and Lower FIS (same story). The Summit on ME will have patchy snow through June! Also, lots of extra snow was made this year on Exterm and Elbow (when the line blew on Which Way, they spent two extra sub-zero days on those), so they would be great through the end of April. I'm not sure how huge the depth is on Cruiser, North Star, Which Way, but I'd guess there would be plenty to keep North Ridge at least through the 22nd of April (the last day of daily operation). It just seems like such a huge investment in snowmaking and terrain-park will be going to waste. My point is, regardless of which mountain you personally prefer, Mt. Ellen is the common-sense spring solution.

I'm sure it will be fun at either mountain, but facts are facts: there is more snow at Mt. Ellen, and Mt. Ellen will hold the snow better.

But either way, this has been an epic season, and I'm sure it will continue to be. My compliments to Win and Co. for a great season and great effort to offer a fantastic product that I've enjoyed all 85 (or so) of my days on the snow so far, and will hopefully enjoy for at least 30 or so more!

:D

ski_resort_observer
03-27-2007, 06:12 AM
I would like to get honest answers to the following business scenerio.

It's sprintime in Vermont. You own two movie theaters. Theater A is located in a busy suburban strip mall, needs abit of renovation since it is the original theater you own. Theater B is located further out of town, new seats and carpeting, better sound. Theater A did recently pave it's parking lot and Theater B's parking lot is still dirt and customers are getting stuck in the mud.

Theater A does twice the business yearound that theater B gets. The busy holiday movie going season is long been over and you need to close one of the theaters until the next holiday season.

Do you close theater(B) with the better conditions but 1/2 the business of the very busy original theater A or theater A, the one that get twice the business?

I doubt I will get very many honest answers but I still am curious if anyone will post. :D

Smart and successful business managers/owners make many of their decisions based on a long range view. Summit Ventures has a long and expensive list of improvements they are planning on making in the next 5 years. Alot of people in here IMHO are looking at a 30 day view. Nothing wrong with that, it's only natural and this situation happens often and crosses all business sectors.

Management is trying improve the business for the majority of the customers/guests knowing full well not everyone is going to be happy with some of the changes. Customers/guests tend look at things defined by their personal preferences. Again, perfectly understandable. Their taking the time to speak out shows they care about the business. A good thing from anyones perspective.

I don't have an MBA but I did own a retail business in a resort area in Wyoming. My parents owned and operated a large summer resort on Lake George in the Daks for 21 years. Looking back it was magical growing up there. I remember my parents discussing and making changes in the early years, we had guests that have been staying there for many years prior, including my parents. A few did squawk loudly at first regarding some of the changes. Needless to say, my parents did no advertising and by May each year the place was basically booked for the entire summer.

In the debate in this thread my support for the decision SV has made for this spring was confirmed by what I saw and experienced at LP last Sat. If the weather is good this coming weekend I expect there will be a repeat plus I wonder if there will be a bump of business over at Mellon. I'll be there as I suspect many of you will be as well. I will also be going over to LP for the pond skimming and music in the afternoon. Again, I assume some of you hopefully will be there as well. Should be a great day regardless! :D

Totally hypathetically, if 400 people skied at Mellon and 1500 skied at LP Sat what would you say? If 600 people skied at Mellon and 900 folks skied at LP the decision certainly gets harder. As most every regular poster here has mentioned often SV does listen to and cares about all it's guests. Give them a chance to get thru the season and evaluate the situation.

Apologize for the long and wordy post. My job at the Bush ended last Friday so I guess I am having some separation issues. :wink: Hopefully I will be back working up at the mountain this June. Have you heard about the new Disc Golf couses the Bush is planning on putting on LP this summer?

freeheel_skier
03-27-2007, 06:56 AM
I would like to get honest answers to the following business scenerio.

It's sprintime in Vermont. You own two movie theaters. Theater A is located in a busy suburban strip mall, needs abit of renovation since it is the original theater you own. Theater B is located further out of town, new seats and carpeting, better sound. Theater A did recently pave it's parking lot and Theater B's parking lot is still dirt and customers are getting stuck in the mud.

Theater A does twice the business yearound that theater B gets. The busy holiday movie going season is long been over and you need to close one of the theaters until the next holiday season.

Do you close theater(B) with the better conditions but 1/2 the business of the very busy original theater A or theater A, the one that get twice the business?

I doubt I will get very many honest answers but I still am curious if anyone will post. :D

Ok, I'll play along.....

Theater A.

Now this isn't the movie business. If you said something like Theater A has no way to play movies due to the fact that the projector is broken....or the seats are all gone therefore there is no place to sit. Maybe that might be more feasible for your example. This isn't the movie business.
Now to the sublime.......
Would you drive further for better ice cream? :?

BushMogulMaster
03-27-2007, 07:07 AM
Freeheel's got a point.

Given your scenario, then I'd keep the one with more business. But as Freeheel points out, this is a different industry in a different set of circumstances.

bill-now
03-27-2007, 07:07 AM
I would sell both theaters and buy a ski resort.

freeheel_skier
03-27-2007, 07:20 AM
I would sell both theaters and buy a ski resort.

LMAO :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think ASC is trying to sell some?

WWF-VT
03-27-2007, 07:34 AM
I would like to get honest answers to the following business scenerio.

It's sprintime in Vermont. You own two movie theaters. Theater A is located in a busy suburban strip mall, needs abit of renovation since it is the original theater you own. Theater B is located further out of town, new seats and carpeting, better sound. Theater A did recently pave it's parking lot and Theater B's parking lot is still dirt and customers are getting stuck in the mud.

Theater A does twice the business yearound that theater B gets. The busy holiday movie going season is long been over and you need to close one of the theaters until the next holiday season.

Do you close theater(B) with the better conditions but 1/2 the business of the very busy original theater A or theater A, the one that get twice the business?

I doubt I will get very many honest answers but I still am curious if anyone will post. :D

Which theater has better popcorn ?

noski
03-27-2007, 07:48 AM
Do Theater A and Theater B play the same movies? Or does one play Independent films and the other Box Office stuff? Is there a segment of the combined patrons that goes to the movies more religiously than other segments and will be the ones putting the butter on your popcorn in the slow season?

CapeSkiGuy
03-27-2007, 07:49 AM
We can post about this issue until our fingers fall off. Nothing is going to change. The business decision has been made, based upon financial investments, to leave LP open late this year. It is simpler to market the condo units this way...Also, it stands to reason that the revenue generated from the Gate House facilities, CR pub, and Timbers is greater than that generated at Mount Ellen. Hopefully some spring snow will keep conditions at LP decent, and we will all be happy. At least as happy as we all get on this board. :-) Then, perhaps, management will look at the results of this business decision, and decide whether or not to make it permanent. Presumably, if the (presumed) revenue forecast comes true, this will be a permanent situation. If not, maybe next year Mt. Ellen will be the late side again. If it were my decision to make, I probably would do the same thing. It is easy for us to forget that this whole thing is a business, and sometimes business decisions have to be made. I'm personally not surprised that this situation has come to pass, based upon the capital invested in the LP base. It is what it is, and I can only expect that cash flow will determine the future course. That said, the Mt. Ellen deck was pretty darn great this past weekend, and I will miss it when it closes.

As an aside, I received some real estate information yesterday. I believe two of the new condo units were listed for resale with local real estate agents. One was a studio unit at $100K. This happens in real estate, where sometimes a sold unit comes up for resale while other units are still available from the developer. What we don't know is why... Are the units being flipped by owners to generate profit, meaning the cost of the units has gone up? (Why list at the end of the season then?) Or has a financial crunch forced the owners to bail out? Hopefully the owners are not leaving because they are unhappy or otherwise dissatisfied. That would not be good from my perspective. Note: I have no info from anyone on the inside...I just saw the units listed on MLS and began to wonder what was the story here.

Personal opinion: I hope the revenue gets to where management wants it. I hope the condo values are increasing. I believe a rising tide lifts all boats, and like anyone, I want the value of my own property to go up over time...which it will if SB continues to improve. I love Mt. Ellen, but business is business.

Lastly, I want to say thanks to everyone at SB, from management to ambassadors, for working their rear ends off to make this a great season. You had an uphill battle this year, right up until Valentine's Day. After that, you handled some record crowds with a lot of poise. This resort is resuming its rightful place as the jewel of the east. Your team effort is one of the reasons why. I will be buying my first season pass in the near future, which is a major commitment for me, because of your efforts. Big deal? It is to me.

I hope to be back before closing day, but other commitments may prevent it. April is a busy month for me. If not, hopefully we will get an early start next year. See you all then. Meanwhile, enjoy the summer.

CSG

MntMan4Bush
03-27-2007, 08:22 AM
But what if Theater A only shows movies with Pauly Shore in it............

I agree that it has to be a business decision. I know that most of us prefer to ski Mellon, but what are we going to do when it closes? We're all going to go ski South. It's not like we'll pick up our skis and call it a season. As long as the lift is running (and for some that's not even a constraint) we'll be doing laps on what ever has snow. Now conditions may actually be better at North for whatever reason, but we'll all still be skiing South. Plus they will have some add ons from Claybrook owners who, if they didn't own there, might otherwise not come up that late in the season. Plus some non-regulars who might otherwise be adverse to coming up or put off because the "main" lodge\mountain isn't open. Who knows. Now that may not be a lot more, but it is some. Of course my vote is for North to stay open because I love the terrain and the atmosphere a bit more over there. (Stein's vs. FIS - No contest. Add in the the possibility of Exterminator because of all the extra snow they blew. Come on). But what it all comes down to is how will SB make the most amount of money in the late season. Can't blame them I guess. If it were me I'd be looking at the revenue as well. If it were close I'd likel go with my heart, but if there's larger seperation then I've got to follow my gut.

Yard Sale
03-27-2007, 08:24 AM
Would you drive further for better ice cream? :?

Not if I were in my jammies, and I still had a little bit freezer burned left in the freezer.

ski_resort_observer
03-27-2007, 08:35 AM
I would sell both theaters and buy a ski resort.

Being in Vermont you have to own and sell every movie theater in Vermont to buy a ski resort. Not too many mega super movieplexes here. :wink: :lol:

kcyanks1
03-27-2007, 09:02 AM
The problem with the analogy for me is that even some of us (like me) who strongly prefer South ordinarily believe that north is the better mountain. When both are open and with snow, I'll go to South pretty much every time (I'm not at SB often), though I admit I should give North more of a shot. But late season? North makes more sense. Different time of year and different circumstances and my preferences change. The movie theater analogy doesn't cover this unless at least some customers who prefer the more popular theater for whatever reason suddenly prefer the other theater.

ski_resort_observer
03-27-2007, 09:15 AM
Forget the analogy, forget your personal preferences, become an armchair theater owner/manager for the moment, A or B?

kcyanks1
03-27-2007, 09:29 AM
Forget the analogy, forget your personal preferences, become an armchair theater owner/manager for the moment, A or B?

A, but I don't think that has anything to do with late season skiing at SB :-) Perhaps Win did make the correct business decision. I don't know what most customers want other than those who post here. I don't have any financial information. But the theater analogy just doesn't work, IMO.

ski_resort_observer
03-27-2007, 09:33 AM
Forget the analogy, forget your personal preferences, become an armchair theater owner/manager for the moment, A or B?

A, but I don't think that has anything to do with late season skiing at SB :-) Perhaps Win did make the correct business decision. I don't know what most customers want other than those who post here. I don't have any financial information. But the theater analogy just doesn't work, IMO.

That's cool. Appreciate your reply. :D

Yard Sale
03-27-2007, 09:38 AM
"A"

freeheel_skier
03-27-2007, 11:36 AM
Lostone might vote III :lol: if there is an A or B involved :P

kcyanks1
03-27-2007, 12:50 PM
Forget the analogy, forget your personal preferences, become an armchair theater owner/manager for the moment, A or B?

A, but I don't think that has anything to do with late season skiing at SB :-) Perhaps Win did make the correct business decision. I don't know what most customers want other than those who post here. I don't have any financial information. But the theater analogy just doesn't work, IMO.

That's cool. Appreciate your reply. :D

No problem. Amazing how long this thread is getting.

Lostone
03-27-2007, 12:52 PM
Lostone might vote III :lol: if there is an A or B involved :P

HEY! That would be III if there was a C involved! :x Pay attention! :x

:lol:

bill-now
03-27-2007, 03:07 PM
Being in Vermont you have to own and sell every movie theater in Vermont to buy a ski resort. Not too many mega super movieplexes here.

You're right; perhaps I would just buy a season pass :lol:

Mike_451
03-27-2007, 03:54 PM
Steins has great depth on it but I think that snowball and fling will burn out and will just be a cat tracks worth of snow that has been pushed to one side on the 21st. For the last weekend, mabey Stiens, beeing really sketchy at the bottom, and possibly a hike back to the chair with agian a very sketchy cat track of slush for Snowball and Fling.

I personaly vote for the top of Mt Ellen.


Though, what about all of the investment in snowmaking at ME for the park going to waste, please tell me they are going to load all that snow into dump trucks with a front end loader and truck it over to LP.

BushMogulMaster
04-26-2007, 01:01 PM
I hate to bring this back up.... but..... :wink:

I will not criticize any of the decisions made on this issue now because, up until this point, the spring (actually, winter?) skiing has been great at LP. The cover has been good, and everything has worked out quite well.

HOWEVER, based on what I see at LP right now, I feel my earlier points and arguments have now been substantiated. My guess for Saturday is Valley House running with Stein's, Spring Fling, Snowball, and Coffee Run. That makes 4 trails. Based on the depth remaining at ME (for those of you who don't know... I live at the base, so I look at it every day), with some creative snow pushing (like Hardy and crew have been doing at LP), ME could easily be T2B this weekend with 25-30 trails open with great depth.

Like I said, I'm not criticizing the decision... it's been fun! However, I will stick to my guns on this issue: Mt. Ellen holds snow better and is a better venue for spring.

LP really lucked out this year with the 7 feet of spring snow. It has made for some of the best spring (winter?) skiing ever in the East. I'm glad it worked so well. But you cannot plan on that happening every year. The speed at which the snow base at LP deteriorated over the past week is astonishing. Had we had a normal spring, there is no way LP would still be operating this weekend.

So... cheers to a great spring at LP this year :D

But my vote (and the facts and the evidence) still points to ME for spring! :D

BushMogulMaster
04-26-2007, 01:10 PM
Yep, I was right about the trails. Here's a blurb from the website:


Here's the plan: the Valley House double is scheduled to start spinning at 8 am on Saturday and Sunday and we will be skiing and riding on Spring Fling, Snowball, Stein's, and Coffee Run.

ski_resort_observer
04-26-2007, 01:53 PM
Again, to repeat, I think most everyone, including myself, agree that ME will always have better coverage LP. That's from a skier's perspective. This thread is about the resort's perspective, the business perspective. IMHO the right choice was made. Lastly, next season might be a totally diferent story, we will just have to wait and see on that.

BushMogulMaster
04-26-2007, 03:19 PM
Again, to repeat, I think most everyone, including myself, agree that ME will always have better coverage LP. That's from a skier's perspective. This thread is about the resort's perspective, the business perspective.


Well, to a certain extent, I agree. Except for the fact that, given a normal April (mostly above freezing, no more than one or two measurable snowfalls), the mountain wouldn't make it to the scheduled closing day. Therein lies the problem. Sometimes the skiers' perspective has to be factored into the resort perspective. If there's nothing left to ski on, then what good did the switch do?

I was also responding to earlier allegations (I don't remember if they were in this post or not) that LP would hold snow just fine through the end, and offers more quality spring skiing (4 trails at LP vs. a possible 15-20ish at ME.... I don't think so :lol: ).

Don't worry... I know plenty about what the resort needs to do to function as a business and meet the bottom line. I actually have as much if not more interest in the ski industry and business itself than the actual skiing. :D


IMHO the right choice was made. Lastly, next season might be a totally diferent story, we will just have to wait and see on that.

Yep. But I won't be here to watch it, unfortunately. However, on the bright side, I'll be skiing at Copper Mt. and Winterpark/Mary Jane about 50 or 60 days. :D

saabski
04-27-2007, 08:22 AM
.... from WIN'S WORD 4/27 Friday

......We worked hard yesterday to ensure that the Valley House Pod (Snowball, Spring Fling, Coffee Run and Stein's) is in good shape for tomorrow and today we are working on the Bravo and Heaven's Gate area to have as must terrain open as possible.

From this it certainly appears that they are attempting to have more than VH for this weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed! I can only ski Sunday (have to WORK Sat; stupid job!!!) so am optimistic. Last weekend I had some of the best skiing in a LONG time. If Sunday is half as good, I'll be happy![/i][/quote]

Lostone
04-27-2007, 10:11 AM
Everything says Sunday is looking like the better of the days... other than what happens to the snow, which is yet to be determined. 8)