AlpineZone post re: SB communications e-mail

[smootharc]

Just FYI....

http://forums.alpinezone.com/14306-sugarbush-rant.html

[BushMogulMaster]

Just FYI....

http://forums.alpinezone.com/14306-sugarbush-rant.html

:roll:

Was that supposed to be funny? It seemed pretty dumb to me! I'm not quite sure what was to be accomplished by that, but I prefer the standard snow report.

[Strat]

It's just J.J. Toland goofing around... I don't know why everyone's so bothered...

[BushMogulMaster]

It's just J.J. Toland goofing around... I don't know why everyone's so bothered...

Well, you're right. Except that J.J. shouldn't be goofing around and sending that to several thousand people on the mailing list. I'm bothered because I don't think it's appropriate, and quite frankly, it's not even humorous. I'm not offended by his comments, I just don't think they belong in a snow report. That was a whole lot of BS just to say... "hey, we've got snow! And guess what... it's good!"

By the way, someone pointed out to me (quite correctly) that when J.J. used the term "masochistic," he actually meant "sadistic." If you're gonna do something like that, at least get your words right! :wink:

[Strat]

It's just J.J. Toland goofing around... I don't know why everyone's so bothered...

Well, you're right. Except that J.J. shouldn't be goofing around and sending that to several thousand people on the mailing list. I'm bothered because I don't think it's appropriate, and quite frankly, it's not even humorous. I'm not offended by his comments, I just don't think they belong in a snow report. That was a whole lot of BS just to say... "hey, we've got snow! And guess what... it's good!"

By the way, someone pointed out to me (quite correctly) that when J.J. used the term "masochistic," he actually meant "sadistic." If you're gonna do something like that, at least get your words right! :wink:
He confused S&M... the plot thickens, haha...

Yes well issuing a formal apology might be even worse, but we'll see I guess....

[Lostone]

I don't know what the big deal is.

It isn't like he was denegrating Catholic school.

Rather, he was using some of his experience as the prologue to his statement.

Still, as I said in the Zone, it probably would have been best left out, as some people are extremely sensitive about thier religion. :roll:

[skiladi]

It's just J.J. Toland goofing around... I don't know why everyone's so bothered...

Well, you're right. Except that J.J. shouldn't be goofing around and sending that to several thousand people on the mailing list. I'm bothered because I don't think it's appropriate, and quite frankly, it's not even humorous. I'm not offended by his comments, I just don't think they belong in a snow report. That was a whole lot of BS just to say... "hey, we've got snow! And guess what... it's good!"

By the way, someone pointed out to me (quite correctly) that when J.J. used the term "masochistic," he actually meant "sadistic." If you're gonna do something like that, at least get your words right! :wink:

How come my snow report wasn't a diatribe? Did it get amended? Anyway , I think it was more about Saint Valentine and self defeatism than an insult to a religious community. A little abstract but isn't this the guy that coined the phrase " immature snow "? Seems apropos to me but then I'm not into religion aside from its historical lessons. But so many people are sensitive it is best to leave any reference out of the PR. Could start another war. :twisted:

[sugarboarder]

It may be "J.J. Toland goofing around" - but what if somebody doesn't know who he is or that he's goofing arond?

[win]

See my post on Alpine Zone!

[gottdogg]

Please. It is amazing what people find offensive these days. Give me a break.

Break out your powder skis and let your boss know (unless you work at Sugarbush ,of course) that you feel the flu coming on because Friday and Saturday are looking sweet. By the way, what ever happened to It's Sweeter up here? Pure Vermont? What is the slogan these days for the Bush?

[random_ski_guy]

It's just J.J. Toland goofing around... I don't know why everyone's so bothered...

Well, you're right. Except that J.J. shouldn't be goofing around and sending that to several thousand people on the mailing list. I'm bothered because I don't think it's appropriate, and quite frankly, it's not even humorous. I'm not offended by his comments, I just don't think they belong in a snow report. That was a whole lot of BS just to say... "hey, we've got snow! And guess what... it's good!"

By the way, someone pointed out to me (quite correctly) that when J.J. used the term "masochistic," he actually meant "sadistic." If you're gonna do something like that, at least get your words right! :wink:

BMM, I agree with you. Gosh, I'm going to sound like a real square, but I just don't think, as a PR director, that you ever make reference to religion. If you do, you keep it short and sweet, no diatribes, even if its your own religion you're making lite of. All that being said, people, don't let this keep you from skiing SB, its still the best and run by the best.

BTW, I think masochistic works in that sentence.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=masochistic

gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification.

[freeheel_skier]

The problem IMHO is if that was my PR guy and I was his boss I would cut him slack.....However, I would start to second guess everything he is producing. Give him slack.....if it happens again then you got an issue :shock: ....This was a bad call, maybe even inappropriate . Lets get back to the real deal.....there is a lot of snow....MORE ON THE WAY! If there wasn't any snow would we be talking about this????/ :?

[BushMogulMaster]

BTW, I think masochistic works in that sentence.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=masochistic

gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification.

Nope. The key word is "oneself." In his context, he was referring to "their masochistic use," a reference to the actual punishers, be them nuns or whomever. Therefore, the punishers were punishing the punishees, making it "sadistic," which is defined as:

Gratification gained through causing pain or degradation to others.

[Yard Sale]

BTW, I think masochistic works in that sentence.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=masochistic

gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification.

Nope. The key word is "oneself." In his context, he was referring to "their masochistic use," a reference to the actual punishers, be them nuns or whomever. Therefore, the punishers were punishing the punishees, making it "sadistic," which is defined as:

Gratification gained through causing pain or degradation to others.

Talk about masochistic and sadistic. Please Stop! No, keep going. O.K. now stop. AHHHH! :oops:

Trailboss locked that thread on AZ. JJ is a good guy, but this just wasn't his best work. Certainly not as good as the Mother Nature press release (http://news.alpinezone.com/9628/). I think YSD on AZ totally overreacted with his "I'm not skiing Sugarbush now" comment. That's just silly, but hey whatever. I've met YSD and he seems like an okay guy; I just didn't agree with his whine.

[random_ski_guy]

Wow, the AZ just locked that tread! Man, I'm dissappointed I had more to say. Nothing flaming either, just wanted to point out that its dissappointing to see the thread get needlessly personal with the 'panties' comments and the 'gaper' comments.

Wow, the AZ just locked that tread! Man, I'm dissappointed I had more to say. Nothing flaming either, just wanted to point out that its dissappointing to see the thread get needlessly personal with the 'panties' comments and the 'gaper' comments.
I think trailboss made a good move. There was nothing more to be said there; just more back and forth attacks. Discussing religion is about as predeictable as discussing politics and we don't allow that.

[BushMogulMaster]

Trailboss locked that thread on AZ. JJ is a good guy, but this just wasn't his best work. Certainly not as good as the Mother Nature press release (http://news.alpinezone.com/9628/). I think YSD on AZ totally overreacted with his "I'm not skiing Sugarbush now" comment. That's just silly, but hey whatever. I've met YSD and he seems like an okay guy; I just didn't agree with his whine.

Yeah, that's definitely a huge overreaction.

The way I see it is like this: anything that JJ says, as the Communications Director for Sugarbush, can be interpreted as the "image" of Sugarbush, whether it is or not. Certainly, JJ has only good intentions, and I personally think he's a great guy. The problem is, not everyone knows that. I can easily see how some people could be offended by his statements, which are, quite frankly, very outdated and inaccurate/irrelevant in today's world. It is his responsibility to make a good impression and a good image of Sugarbush (which he usually does very very well). By bringing up religion in such a way as he did could definitely be taken the wrong way, and could leave a bad taste in some peoples' mouths. Did it offend me? No... and I'm a practicing Catholic and proud graduate of a Catholic elem/mid school. Could it be offensive to some? Absolutely. Therefore, it was not appropriate. These are all the things that one needs to consider before zapping that email to everyone on the mailing list, because once he pushes that "send" button, theres no "unsend" button. :wink:

However, we're all human, and even a great guy like JJ is allowed to make a mistake once in a while! I say we all forget about it and SKI!

[Tin Woodsman]

Wow, the AZ just locked that tread! Man, I'm dissappointed I had more to say. Nothing flaming either, just wanted to point out that its dissappointing to see the thread get needlessly personal with the 'panties' comments and the 'gaper' comments.
I resemble that remark.

Honestly, it offends my sensibilities as an adult that we continue to regress towards the lowest common denominator in terms of what is and isn't offensive. Any wahoo can pipe up and declare even the most innocuous of statements to be offensive, and the writer (or their advertiser) quickly retrests, striking yet another blow to open and rational discourse.

What JJ wrote wasn't really all that funny, and was most certainly too verbose, but offensive? How can it be offensive to relate one's real life experience? People need to be able to lighten up and laugh at themselves.

[BushMogulMaster]

People need to be able to lighten up and laugh at themselves.

I'm good at that, especially when I yardsale under a lift! :wink: :lol:

[Tin Woodsman]

People need to be able to lighten up and laugh at themselves.

I'm good at that, especially when I yardsale under a lift! :wink: :lol:

That's my specialty.

[madhavok]

I'd just like to add, that I am a Catholic and was not the least bit offended by the email. I thought it was dumb but definately not offending. No need for the apology.

[freeheel_skier]

People need to be able to lighten up and laugh at themselves.

I'm good at that, especially when I yardsale under a lift! :wink: :lol:

That's my specialty.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yardsaling I hate that. Especially on Bravo. Now if I could just figure out how to make my ski not hit me in the head while still attached (via cord) to my boot. I know, I know.....Lock the heel! :wink:

[Yard Sale]

People need to be able to lighten up and laugh at themselves.

I'm good at that, especially when I yardsale under a lift! :wink: :lol:

That's my specialty.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yardsaling I hate that. Especially on Bravo. Now if I could just figure out how to make my ski not hit me in the head while still attached (via cord) to my boot. I know, I know.....Lock the heel! :wink:

O.kayeee, now, I'm a little offended. :wink:

[sugarboarder]

I love a good yardsail on a blustery day!

[ScoobySnack]

I enjoy a little personality with my snow reports. If I want straight data, I'll just go to weather.com.

Oh, well. Nice try at least, JJ. I was disappointed to see the apology today. Score another one for the overly sensitive, I guess.

Keep sticking it to the man, JJ (oh wait, you are the man).

Sincerely,
Scooby,
(still recovering from 12 years of catholic school).

Ps: a word of advice - if you are planning to compare a snow report with a religious analogy again, it might be best to stay away from any islam analogies. :D

[boze]

...I took no offense whatsoever. I suggest that for any that did, to draw upon their faith and forgive / forget. Or, get some 'thicker skin' - it's a big world out there and you'd be well-served to not sweat the small stuff.

And for those who could not figure out JJ was joking, well then I think Darwinian theory accidently missed its appointment with you.

Good day.

[random_ski_guy]

...I took no offense whatsoever. I suggest that for any that did, to draw upon their faith and forgive / forget. Or, get some 'thicker skin' - it's a big world out there and you'd be well-served to not sweat the small stuff.

And for those who could not figure out JJ was joking, well then I think Darwinian theory accidently missed its appointment with you.

Good day.


If JJ wrote about another religion, pick one, any one, wouldn't have felt ackward? Catholic jokes seem to never get second guessed, its always open season.

Maybe I haven't made this clear; but to me this entire issue revolves around who JJ is speaking for when he speaks; the employees, the mtn, the community. From his position in the community, I don't think religion is a wise area to make light of. Now If he had written from a private position, newspaper editorial (or satire) or what have you, but not as the voice of a resort, then I would see nothing wrong with it. Absolutly nothing! I agree with Tin in that we shouldn't be afraid out of so-called 'political correctness' to have meaningful discussions in this country. But people in commerce should heed political correctness, its the financially wise thing to do.

Missed my appointment when Darwin eh? Again with the snide insults to those who disagree. This board has had a remarkable run over the past two years of civil and polite discourse, lets not loose it.

[boze]

Darwin comment directed to no one in particular. Saw one post about 'someone maybe not understanding the JJ was joking' which I think is not only a stretch of the imagination but down-right silly. Thus Darwin comes into play, for those who can't pick up on that likely can't pick up on much going on around them.

Not being uncivil. Just have a different opinion. Let's agree to disagree. And leave it at that.

[Mike_451]

Well, JJ sent this out, and I hope this, with Wins Responce on AZ settles this.

Originally Posted by JJ Toland
I want to apologize to anyone who was offended by yesterday’s Mountain Views. The piece was written in a humorous context and not intended as a slight to the Catholic faith. The aim of the story was to put some of my past experiences growing up in Catholic schools in a hyperbolic and amusing light, and relate them to a recent weather event; i.e., the expression “Good things come to those who wait” being the perfect idiom to describe the Valentine’s Day blizzard. The descriptions of past school encounters were exaggerated and meant to entertain, and possibly be points of relation to anyone who had similar experiences.

I really have enjoyed writing Mountain Views over the last four years and have always tried to make them as light-hearted and entertaining as possible, never offensive. This last one was off the mark.

Please feel free to contact me at jtoland@sugarbush.com if you’d like to discuss this further. If you’d like to speak with me directly, I’ll also be on the hill this weekend; we’re expecting over a foot of new snow by Saturday.

Again, my sincerest apologies,

JJ

"JJ's Post Taken from JimG's post on AZ"

[Tin Woodsman]

The fact that JJ felt he had to apologize is a sad commentary on the state of discourse in today's society.

[Mike_451]

kind of interesting he was only apologizing to people who were offended :wink:

[Tin Woodsman]

kind of interesting he was only apologizing to people who were offended :wink:

Yes, all one of them.

[Lostone]

he was only apologizing to people who were offended

Why would you apologize to someone who you hadn't offended? :?

And there were more than one. Religion is one of those things that people get worked up about, very easily.

But I agree with Tin's statement hat it is a sad state of affairs. :roll:

[random_ski_guy]

kind of interesting he was only apologizing to people who were offended :wink:

Yes, all one of them.

There are at least two or three, maybe more.

[Mike_451]

not to flame-bait or anything, but anybody who was offended probably deserves to to be offended.

[ski_resort_observer]

To be honest this whole issue is not a big deal but that's me. Other opinions about this issue are just as valid as mine or anyone else's. That's one of the foundational reasons we started this forum. A sounding board, honest feedback will have a place here and not be disparaged for posting that feedback. Some of the above comments have crossed the line. Please cease and desist.

[sugarboarder]

SRO - what is your avatar...I can't figure out what I am looking at there? Fireplace?

[ski_resort_observer]

SRO - what is your avatar...I can't figure out what I am looking at there? Fireplace?

Don't get too fixated on it as I change it every 2 weeks or so. :wink: Since you asked it's a friends woodstove.

[sugarboarder]

SRO - what is your avatar...I can't figure out what I am looking at there? Fireplace?

Don't get too fixated on it as I change it every 2 weeks or so. :wink: Since you asked it's a friends woodstove.

that's hot 8)

[Mike_451]

there, lets talk about woodstoves, and forget this whole stupid thing!

[sugarboarder]

Let's burn it for heat!

[random_ski_guy]

To be honest this whole issue is not a big deal but that's me. Other opinions about this issue are just as valid as mine or anyone else's. That's one of the foundational reasons we started this forum. A sounding board, honest feedback will have a place here and not be disparaged for posting that feedback. Some of the above comments have crossed the line. Please cease and desist.

My sentiments exactly. Lets move on.

[sugarboarder]

You're tired of talking about woodstoves ALREADY??? :shock:

[Mike_451]

Ok lets talk about halfpipes

[ski_resort_observer]

Ok lets talk about halfpipes

:shock: :shock: :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/gallery/data/515/em_img1.gif

[sugarboarder]

Ok lets talk about halfpipes

:shock: :shock: :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/gallery/data/515/em_img1.gif

Let's put this thread to bed...http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/images/smilies/sleep.gif