PDA

View Full Version : We HAVE TO do better than this...



sugarboarder
02-22-2007, 08:38 PM
I really hate to post this, since SO much good has been happening lately...but...I went to ME today to FINALLY get some time riding the half pipe this winter. Now the pipe this year certainly leaves a lot to be desired, but what I found astounded and maddened me to no end. Someone had driven a cat DIRECTLY UP THE MIDDLE of the pipe. There is no quicker way to RUIN a halfpipe than that! With all the great snow we have, and in the middle of a vacation week - WHY??? :x

This is like driving a cat up the middle of a bump trail with nice soft bumps all over it. I just don't understand it at all. I had brought out my pipe setup for the first time in two years, and had spent time prepping it the night before. I was so upset I just left and went home.

A nice pipe is a center of activity at most mountains, and a joy to ride in. We will NEVER have any halfpipe champions come out of here at this rate, you can take that to the bank. U-G-L-Y.

BushMogulMaster
02-22-2007, 09:27 PM
This is like driving a cat up the middle of a bump trail with nice soft bumps all over it.

That happened too. Semi-tough, flattened like a pancake. Had the only perfect blue-square bumps at ME. Gone, gone, gone... :cry:

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 12:26 PM
I just returned from a halfpipe comp at Mt. Snow yesterday. This post is a plea for Sugarbush to make a REAL halfpipe, or better yet SEVERAL real halfpipes. If we are goping to be one of the best resorts in VT, this is something sorely lacking. There is no excuse for the pipe we have right now with all this snow...the pipes at Mt. Snow were PERFECT!

The current pipe has nowhere near enough pitch to it, it is too short, and the walls are not high enough. When walls are not high enough with not enough vertical on them it makes the likelihood of "decking out" very high and that is when the worst injuries usually occur.

I talked to the park crew at Mt. Snow and there was a post elsewhere in this forum (I think it was in the thread with the picture of the pipe) stating that a pipe costs some exorbinant amount of money to create - it just isn't true. The number of snowboarders avoiding our mountain because there is no real halfpipe is probably more in $$$ than the cost of building a good one.

Superparx has definitely been a step up in the park features we have this year - let's get the pipe(s) up to speed to match, and have one at both North and South. Otherwise we are just not offering the same level of freestyle opportunities that almost ALL other "big" areas in New England are offering.

Some skiers may be thinking that the pipe is not important, or dreading the influx of pipe groms, but the fact is there are PLENTY of families whose kids just want to ride the pipe all day and they are going elsewhere - they told me so this past weekend.

And certainly driving a cat up the middle of it on a vacation week with plenty of good snow should never have happened - that one is easy to avoid. :)

BushMogulMaster
03-05-2007, 01:33 PM
I talked to the park crew at Mt. Snow and there was a post elsewhere in this forum (I think it was in the thread with the picture of the pipe) stating that a pipe costs some exorbinant amount of money to create - it just isn't true. The number of snowboarders avoiding our mountain because there is no real halfpipe is probably more in $$$ than the cost of building a good one.

It isn't the cost of actually cutting the pipe that is expensive, Sugarboarder, it's the snowmaking and the labor. The cost runs into many thousands.

madhavok
03-05-2007, 01:33 PM
I hate to break it to you but 99.9999999999999% of the people who come to ski Sugarbush do not care about having a half pipe. At other mountains the half pipe and the reggae music may be the center of activity but that's not Sugarbush. People come to Sugarbush for the mountain, its amazing terrain, and its atmosphere. I personally think it would be a sad day if Sugarbush ever got into a pissing match with Mt. Snow or Okemo over who had a bigger half pipe, more jumps and more rails. Besides right now Sugarbush actually has a decent setup with the terrain features at Mount Ellen. The terrain park is actually pretty good, its not in the way, there is plenty of room to hang out and it practically has its owned dedicated chair lift.

But about your gripe, I don’t know why they would drive a cat up the middle of the half pipe, maybe there was too much snow and moguls were starting to form?

Volkl Skier
03-05-2007, 03:01 PM
Killington is 45 minutes south...have at it! :roll:

Strat
03-05-2007, 03:52 PM
Is there really such a demand for a quality pipe? I mean the utilization of the old pipe was not that high, was it?

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 05:15 PM
I talked to the park crew at Mt. Snow and there was a post elsewhere in this forum (I think it was in the thread with the picture of the pipe) stating that a pipe costs some exorbinant amount of money to create - it just isn't true. The number of snowboarders avoiding our mountain because there is no real halfpipe is probably more in $$$ than the cost of building a good one.

It isn't the cost of actually cutting the pipe that is expensive, Sugarboarder, it's the snowmaking and the labor. The cost runs into many thousands.

C'mon now I'm no dummy...I get that. The person in question said it was something like $100,000. And so what - running a mountain is expensive. Almost every other major area builds them, and we used to have at leasr one that was far better than that thing we have now. You kind of totally overlooked the point of the post - but I'm guessing most skiers who aren't "freeskiers" probably will...I understand that too! :)

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 05:16 PM
Killington is 45 minutes south...have at it! :roll:

Didn't you learn your lesson?

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 05:24 PM
Is there really such a demand for a quality pipe? I mean the utilization of the old pipe was not that high, was it?

I think people are missing my point. What is the point of a ski area, from the owner's standpoint? It's a business, like it or not, and they want to make as much money as possible, right? I know the average Sugarbush skier is affected by the "MRG effect" and wants to ignore or block out this fact - but there is a huge segment of the ski/board population now that is into park/pipe riding and skiing. The old pipe did get used quite a bit, and after all, if you are going to have one, one of my points is why not build it right? Otherwise it's just a waste of money - another thing to avoid in business. You also need to promote it once you have it, especially here. We've lagged behind for so long on this stuff that it would need to be advertised, then I think you'd see a lot of use...look how much use the park is getting this year.

Remember - I'm not saying this in a demanding tone like "we need a good pipe or else" or "Sugarbush sucks if it doesn't have a decent pipe"...we all know that isn't true. I'm throwing it out there as an idea and something I'd like to see. I wouldn't expect everybody, especially skiers over a certain age, to understand the need. :D

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 05:36 PM
I hate to break it to you but 99.9999999999999% of the people who come to ski Sugarbush do not care about having a half pipe. At other mountains the half pipe and the reggae music may be the center of activity but that's not Sugarbush. People come to Sugarbush for the mountain, its amazing terrain, and its atmosphere. I personally think it would be a sad day if Sugarbush ever got into a pissing match with Mt. Snow or Okemo over who had a bigger half pipe, more jumps and more rails. Besides right now Sugarbush actually has a decent setup with the terrain features at Mount Ellen. The terrain park is actually pretty good, its not in the way, there is plenty of room to hang out and it practically has its owned dedicated chair lift.

But about your gripe, I don’t know why they would drive a cat up the middle of the half pipe, maybe there was too much snow and moguls were starting to form?

Exactly...we are missing a big part of the market. I hate to break this to you but ALL halfpipes don't have exclusively Reggae music (might be nice though) and Sugarbush blasts music throughout the base area at South, so we already have that part.

Having a pipe has zero effect on what we all like so much about the rest of the mountain - it's about 400-500 feet on ONE trail. Your last two sentences of your first paragraph pretty much back this concept up entirely. :)

And why would having a nice halfpipe be getting into a "pissing match" with ANYBODY? I don't understand that train of thought. I said nothing about having more rails or a BIGGER pipe - I'm talking about just having a GOOD one which is up to spec. We had a nicer pipe before and it didn't change the atmosphere at sugarbush - nor did it get us into a pissing match with anybody. 8)

On the cat - no, there were no moguls in the pipe - :lol: - somebody just drove right up the middle of it without any grooming attachments in contact with anything...just cat tracks...ruined it. Like I said, simple solution...just don't do it. The fact that it was done in the middle of a holiday week with perfect snow conditions is just inexcusable. It may just be an issue of educating our already talented cat operators so they understand the damage that does - one more tool in their bag of tricks so to speak. :)

Volkl Skier
03-05-2007, 05:51 PM
Killington is 45 minutes south...have at it! :roll:

Didn't you learn your lesson?

aww.. someone doesn't like it when they are treated the same way they treat others???

Volkl Skier
03-05-2007, 05:57 PM
I hate to break it to you but 99.9999999999999% of the people who come to ski Sugarbush do not care about having a half pipe. At other mountains the half pipe and the reggae music may be the center of activity but that's not Sugarbush. People come to Sugarbush for the mountain, its amazing terrain, and its atmosphere. I personally think it would be a sad day if Sugarbush ever got into a pissing match with Mt. Snow or Okemo over who had a bigger half pipe, more jumps and more rails. Besides right now Sugarbush actually has a decent setup with the terrain features at Mount Ellen. The terrain park is actually pretty good, its not in the way, there is plenty of room to hang out and it practically has its owned dedicated chair lift.

But about your gripe, I don’t know why they would drive a cat up the middle of the half pipe, maybe there was too much snow and moguls were starting to form?

Exactly...we are missing a big part of the market. I hate to break this to you but ALL halfpipes don't have exclusively Reggae music (might be nice though) and Sugarbush blasts music throughout the base area at South, so we already have that part.

Having a pipe has zero effect on what we all like so much about the rest of the mountain - it's about 400-500 feet on ONE trail. Your last two sentences of your first paragraph pretty much back this concept up entirely. :)

And why would having a nice halfpipe be getting into a "pissing match" with ANYBODY? I don't understand that train of thought. I said nothing about having more rails or a BIGGER pipe - I'm talking about just having a GOOD one which is up to spec. We had a nicer pipe before and it didn't change the atmosphere at sugarbush - nor did it get us into a pissing match with anybody. 8)

On the cat - no, there were no moguls in the pipe - :lol: - somebody just drove right up the middle of it without any grooming attachments in contact with anything...just cat tracks...ruined it. Like I said, simple solution...just don't do it. The fact that it was done in the middle of a holiday week with perfect snow conditions is just inexcusable. It may just be an issue of educating our already talented cat operators so they understand the damage that does - one more tool in their bag of tricks so to speak. :)


By a bigger market, do you mean the 5 teenagers I saw at the park this weekend? Every ski area isn't a cookie cutter disney land like your coveted mt. snow, the people that are attracted to Sugarbush, and Warren, don't seem to care much about a halfpipe and certainly don't want to turn their mountain into mt snow...

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 06:33 PM
Killington is 45 minutes south...have at it! :roll:

Didn't you learn your lesson?

aww.. someone doesn't like it when they are treated the same way they treat others???

Man you are a piece of work - :lol: :lol: :lol:

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 06:34 PM
Isn't there an "ignore" function in this forum???

Strat
03-05-2007, 07:20 PM
Can everybody please play nicely? Feel free to argue respectively but can we not have the threads turn into little anger matches?

Yes, I know, why listen to the teenager? But really, it's just not necessary...

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 07:50 PM
Can everybody please play nicely? Feel free to argue respectively but can we not have the threads turn into little anger matches?

Yes, I know, why listen to the teenager? But really, it's just not necessary...

This isn't, or wasn't, an "anger" thread until VS chimed in. Please notice the smilies in my posts. Hence my question about the ignore function. Other forums I post on have it, do we?

Lostone
03-05-2007, 08:05 PM
What Strat said!

We do have an ignore function. It is manually operated.

It is enabled by people not reading or (more likely ) not responding to other's posts.

Again, please take your personal animosities to PMs or emails.

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 08:16 PM
What Strat said!

We do have an ignore function. It is manually operated.

It is enabled by people not reading or (more likely ) not responding to other's posts.

Again, please take your personal animosities to PMs or emails.

Can we PLEASE get back to the issue at hand - or not post at all - the wrist slapping is a bit much for what was a couple of minor barbs. :shock:

If you are a skier and just plain don't want snowboarders on the same hill as you, then kindly keep your thoughts to yourself. :)

MntMan4Bush
03-05-2007, 08:28 PM
................................. (Representation of keeping my thoughhts to myself)

Just kidding SB! :lol:

I think this forum has served well for voicing what people want at the Bush. Sometimes it's met with approval from all and sometimes not, but people should still feel comfortable brining up what they'd like to see. Personally I rarely hit the pipe. I'd probably hit it more if I could do so without a ton of people watching me make a fool out of myself, but regardless I can see how it's a draw for some. When the "super pipe" (I know it wasn't legit) was in front of the deck it seemed a lot of people enjoyed it. Why shouldn't the Bush try to be the best at everything. If the pipe needs improvement lets bring it up. More people at the Bush may seem at first glance like crazy talk, but the more revnue the more improvememts and maybe we'll start seeing some of our crazy ideas come true (i.e. the pod above Inverness coming to life)

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 09:31 PM
................................. (Representation of keeping my thoughhts to myself)

Just kidding SB! :lol:

I think this forum has served well for voicing what people want at the Bush. Sometimes it's met with approval from all and sometimes not, but people should still feel comfortable brining up what they'd like to see. Personally I rarely hit the pipe. I'd probably hit it more if I could do so without a ton of people watching me make a fool out of myself, but regardless I can see how it's a draw for some. When the "super pipe" (I know it wasn't legit) was in front of the deck it seemed a lot of people enjoyed it. Why shouldn't the Bush try to be the best at everything. If the pipe needs improvement lets bring it up. More people at the Bush may seem at first glance like crazy talk, but the more revnue the more improvememts and maybe we'll start seeing some of our crazy ideas come true (i.e. the pod above Inverness coming to life)

Thanks MM4B - that is really all I am saying...the old pipe was pretty good and in a good location with a more appropriate pitch. It's pretty much a "must have" at any major area these days. 8)

shadyjay
03-05-2007, 09:49 PM
Was there any reason given for why we have a little pipe this year? Okay, last year I can see, with the lack of snow and snowmaking efforts concentrated on keeping terrain open, but this year it should be a given that there should have been the superpipe in its former location. The Polecat could have been fired up, and v'walla. The "jib scene" could have been over on Sugar Run or something.

But, at least there is some pipe this year, even if it is undersized, etc. Personally, seeing a pipe that size makes me wanna get in it. I checked it out Sun but didn't have the guts.

Biff, Paris-France
03-05-2007, 09:59 PM
MRG solved this problem several years ago, no boards, no pipe, no problem. things are a bit more simple just around the corner ... come on over and check us out, I bet you'll like it.

I kid, I kid ... I know that a pipe is used by skiers and riders alike, I hope you folks can work it out, the snow is too good to fuss about anything except how to make it snow more.

But seriously, do come visit, it's another world over here, and we don't have a pipe ...... !

Volkl Skier
03-05-2007, 10:16 PM
Can everybody please play nicely? Feel free to argue respectively but can we not have the threads turn into little anger matches?

Yes, I know, why listen to the teenager? But really, it's just not necessary...

This isn't, or wasn't, an "anger" thread until VS chimed in. Please notice the smilies in my posts. Hence my question about the ignore function. Other forums I post on have it, do we?

I'm sorry, all I did was quote you, which then according to basic logic would make your statement from the other thread inflamatory...

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 10:42 PM
....and we don't have a pipe ...... !

That's not what I heard... 8)

madhavok
03-05-2007, 10:50 PM
Exactly...we are missing a big part of the market.



It's a business, like it or not, and they want to make as much money as possible, right?

I wouldn't say we are actually missing that part of the market. Honestly half pipes and a terrain parks aren’t the reason Sugarbush’s customer’s drive the extra 2 hours and that’s not going to change. The truth is Sugarbush really wouldn’t gain much by having a 500’ super pipe at the base of Mount Ellen anyway. Any kid, teenager, or young adult who wants to hang out in the half pipe all day isn’t even going to bother buying a ticket, so the economics just aren’t there.

All things considered Sugarbush really did a great job with the terrain features this year. Hopefully they notice how well it’s worked out and they can implement the same concept next year.

sugarboarder
03-05-2007, 11:45 PM
I wouldn't say we are actually missing that part of the market. Honestly half pipes and a terrain parks aren’t the reason Sugarbush’s customer’s drive the extra 2 hours and that’s not going to change.

Of course we are. Like I said; you cant really just build it and get the market, you have to promote it. It's not sound business thinking to say "we aren't really missing a part of the market - it's just that they won't come to our store".


The truth is Sugarbush really wouldn’t gain much by having a 500’ super pipe at the base of Mount Ellen anyway. Any kid, teenager, or young adult who wants to hang out in the half pipe all day isn’t even going to bother buying a ticket, so the economics just aren’t there.

I don't know of ANY mountains that let anybody on their parks and pipes without a ticket. When you buy a ticket you agree to the "possible injury from a dangerous sport" thing, or whtever the legalese is. The mountain would be exposing themselves to serious risk if they let unticketed riders on the park/pipe.


All things considered Sugarbush really did a great job with the terrain features this year. Hopefully they notice how well it’s worked out and they can implement the same concept next year.

You can't say on the one hand that "terrain parks aren’t the reason Sugarbush’s customer’s drive the extra 2 hours" and then say "Hopefully they notice how well it’s worked out"...so do people come here and use the park or not? That's a rhetorical question - but the second quotation does does support my point. :wink: :)

madhavok
03-06-2007, 07:32 AM
Ok, but I've never seen anyone checking or scanning tickets at the top of a half pipe anywhere. What about the terrain features near the Mount Ellen lodge, does anyone check tickets there?

And why can't I say that people don't come to Sugarbush for the terrain park, but they do have a good compromise for those who would like to mess around with a few terrain features. I see no need, or benefit in expanding or putting anymore money into the terrain features at Sugarbush.

Volkl Skier
03-06-2007, 07:33 AM
Of course we are. Like I said; you cant really just build it and get the market, you have to promote it. It's not sound business thinking to say "we aren't really missing a part of the market - it's just that they won't come to our store".

I'm pretty sure he meant we aren't missing it. as in, Peter, you've been missing alot of work lately. I wouldn't say I been missing it...

As was eluded to in many other posts, maybe the people of Sugarbush don't WANT that market segment. Much like MRG doesn't.



I don't know of ANY mountains that let anybody on their parks and pipes without a ticket. When you buy a ticket you agree to the "possible injury from a dangerous sport" thing, or whtever the legalese is. The mountain would be exposing themselves to serious risk if they let unticketed riders on the park/pipe.

I have never ever once in my life seen someone scan tickets at the park.



You can't say on the one hand that "terrain parks aren’t the reason Sugarbush’s customer’s drive the extra 2 hours" and then say "Hopefully they notice how well it’s worked out"...so do people come here and use the park or not? That's a rhetorical question - but the second quotation does does support my point. :wink: :)

You can say whatever you want in America, I think what he means is the Sugarbush community seemed pretty happy with the park, so they should make basically a carbon copy for next year. Pretty simple.

madhavok
03-06-2007, 08:46 AM
Of course we are. Like I said; you cant really just build it and get the market, you have to promote it. It's not sound business thinking to say "we aren't really missing a part of the market - it's just that they won't come to our store".

I'm pretty sure he meant we aren't missing it. as in, Peter, you've been missing alot of work lately. I wouldn't say I been missing it...

As was eluded to in many other posts, maybe the people of Sugarbush don't WANT that market segment. Much like MRG doesn't.



I don't know of ANY mountains that let anybody on their parks and pipes without a ticket. When you buy a ticket you agree to the "possible injury from a dangerous sport" thing, or whtever the legalese is. The mountain would be exposing themselves to serious risk if they let unticketed riders on the park/pipe.

I have never ever once in my life seen someone scan tickets at the park.



You can't say on the one hand that "terrain parks aren’t the reason Sugarbush’s customer’s drive the extra 2 hours" and then say "Hopefully they notice how well it’s worked out"...so do people come here and use the park or not? That's a rhetorical question - but the second quotation does does support my point. :wink: :)

You can say whatever you want in America, I think what he means is the Sugarbush community seemed pretty happy with the park, so they should make basically a carbon copy for next year. Pretty simple.

Yes! Office Space is a great movie.

sugarboarder
03-06-2007, 08:48 AM
As was eluded to in many other posts, maybe the people of Sugarbush don't WANT that market segment. Much like MRG doesn't.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

arc1
03-06-2007, 09:26 AM
There's a whole generation of kids who are in the sport because of park and pipe. I've got a 12 year old son who can't get enough of it, and although it drives me nuts, it's the reality. Look at the X-games and all the other freeride action. Many may not have noticed that the Bush has hosted a few comps this year. There will be more. Get used to it.

Mike_451
03-06-2007, 09:30 AM
Yes and Sugarbush has a Park, and a Pipe.

sugarboarder
03-06-2007, 03:00 PM
There's a whole generation of kids who are in the sport because of park and pipe. I've got a 12 year old son who can't get enough of it, and although it drives me nuts, it's the reality. Look at the X-games and all the other freeride action. Many may not have noticed that the Bush has hosted a few comps this year. There will be more. Get used to it.


...or go to MRG...at least the board-o-phobes have an option here - they should appreciate that fact! :)

sugarboarder
03-06-2007, 03:02 PM
Yes and Sugarbush has a Park, and a Pipe.

:shock: ...

:lol: ...a mini pipe in bad shape, but it's a start. All I'm really saying is that with this great snow year we should have at least the equal of the pipe we used to have at ME. And South could use one in the future. 8)

Yard Sale
03-06-2007, 04:21 PM
Yes and Sugarbush has a Park, and a Pipe.

:shock: ...

:lol: ...a mini pipe in bad shape, but it's a start. All I'm really saying is that with this great snow year we should have at least the equal of the pipe we used to have at ME. And South could use one in the future. 8)

I have been reading your numerous posts on this topic, and many of your points are valid. And while I appreciate your zeal and conviction, I'd find a pipe would overwhelm the over all landscape and character of the base at LP and be an eye sore. While I think pipes and parks are fun, I confess that on a occasion I might take a run through a park here or there just goofing around at different mountains, they just don't hold my attenetion for very long. The pipe just doesn't scratch the itch that brought me to the Bush over all of the other mountains in the East. I can't speak so much for Mt. Ellen, as I am not as familiar with ME, but the confines of the LP area are far too limited to accomodate a such large feature with such a singular purpose. It would dramatically effect and hinder the versatility beauty of the entire LP base. I would be disapointed to see one at LP.

Just one guys opinion.

sugarboarder
03-06-2007, 04:33 PM
I'd find a pipe would overwhelm the over all landscape and character of the base at LP and be an eye sore...the confines of the LP area are far too limited to accomodate a such large feature with such a singular purpose. It would dramatically effect and hinder the versatility beauty of the entire LP base. I would be disapointed to see one at LP.

I know it's your opininon, but you've got to be kidding...eyesore? Dramatically effect (sp) and hinder?? :shock:

You do know about the ski area up on Route 17 don't you?? :wink:

BushMogulMaster
03-06-2007, 06:13 PM
I'd find a pipe would overwhelm the over all landscape and character of the base at LP and be an eye sore...the confines of the LP area are far too limited to accomodate a such large feature with such a singular purpose. It would dramatically effect and hinder the versatility beauty of the entire LP base. I would be disapointed to see one at LP.

I know it's your opininon, but you've got to be kidding...eyesore? Dramatically effect (sp) and hinder?? :shock:

You do know about the ski area up on Route 17 don't you?? :wink:

Okay, Sugarboarder, you've made your point about MRG. Your definitely wearing it out now. :wink:

BushMogulMaster
03-06-2007, 06:26 PM
I'd find a pipe would overwhelm the over all landscape and character of the base at LP and be an eye sore...the confines of the LP area are far too limited to accomodate a such large feature with such a singular purpose. It would dramatically effect and hinder the versatility beauty of the entire LP base. I would be disapointed to see one at LP.

I know it's your opininon, but you've got to be kidding...eyesore? Dramatically effect (sp) and hinder?? :shock:

Sorry, Sugarboarder, IMHO pipes are definitely an eyesore and a hindrance. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with them, and I'm glad you like them. I just don't. I'm still allowed to have an opinion, aren't I?

sugarboarder
03-06-2007, 06:48 PM
I'd find a pipe would overwhelm the over all landscape and character of the base at LP and be an eye sore...the confines of the LP area are far too limited to accomodate a such large feature with such a singular purpose. It would dramatically effect and hinder the versatility beauty of the entire LP base. I would be disapointed to see one at LP.

I know it's your opininon, but you've got to be kidding...eyesore? Dramatically effect (sp) and hinder?? :shock:

You do know about the ski area up on Route 17 don't you?? :wink:

Okay, Sugarboarder, you've made your point about MRG. Your definitely wearing it out now. :wink:

I guess I see where I've made my mistake...I came to forums.SKImrv.com instead of forums.SNOWBOARDmrv.com ... don't know what I could have been thinking. I'm talking to the enemy here and expecting that they will understand. It's funny how skiers around here can't take a ribbing about MRG, but feel free to denigrate snowboarders any chance they get. We dont want "that element" and "that's not what people come here for" or "halfpipes are an eyesore" etc. ad nauseum. The reason I comment on MRG is that it has affected the entire valley's attitude towards snowboarding. As a whole, this is the biggest group of elitist, closed-minded, phobic, people I've come across in a long time...oh, wait a minute...a lot of these elitist, closed-minded, phobic, people are my fiends...how could that be? Could it be that they get along with...with...a snowboarder? :roll:

I was a skier for 20 years before I started snowboarding. It didn't change my personality when I switched the way I slid down the hill. I didn't change my outlook on skiing and skiers when I made the switch either. I got along with anyone on the hill and vice versa, at areas all over the US...until I came here. And by "here" I don't mean Sugarbush, I mean this forum and the valley in general. The majority of you people are REALLY out of the loop as far as realizing that it is not 1985 any more and that snowboarding became mainstream a LONG time ago...the kind of uninformed closed-minded comments in this thread have reminded me about that for the last time. I've enjoyed corresponding with some of you here - but it just isn't worth it to me to see the attitudes some of you have...it takes away from the enjoyment of living in what otherwise is a really great place. I have some wonderful supporters of my competitive efforts here, and I bet it would surprise a lot of you who those people are - I KNOW it would. Win and the people who matter at Sugarbush listen to me and are open-minded and living in the present - it is truly a pleasure to hang out with those people. So enjoy your sheltered little worlds boarder-phobes...and keep the faith...maybe this sport that is 60 percent of the market will just magically fade away and y'all can bask in the limelight of knowing you had a part in it all...throw a big party in the basebox and pat each other on the back...or maybe not. :P

I've got better things to do with my time than bang my head against the virtual wall of the SKImrv forum...what was I thinking? 8)

BushMogulMaster
03-06-2007, 07:07 PM
I'd find a pipe would overwhelm the over all landscape and character of the base at LP and be an eye sore...the confines of the LP area are far too limited to accomodate a such large feature with such a singular purpose. It would dramatically effect and hinder the versatility beauty of the entire LP base. I would be disapointed to see one at LP.

I know it's your opininon, but you've got to be kidding...eyesore? Dramatically effect (sp) and hinder?? :shock:

You do know about the ski area up on Route 17 don't you?? :wink:

Okay, Sugarboarder, you've made your point about MRG. Your definitely wearing it out now. :wink:

I guess I see where I've made my mistake...I came to forums.SKImrv.com instead of forums.SNOWBOARDmrv.com ... don't know what I could have been thinking. I'm talking to the enemy here and expecting that they will understand. It's funny how skiers around here can't take a ribbing about MRG, but feel free to denigrate snowboarders any chance they get. We dont want "that element" and "that's not what people come here for" or "halfpipes are an eyesore" etc. ad nauseum. The reason I comment on MRG is that it has affected the entire valley's attitude towards snowboarding. As a whole, this is the biggest group of elitist, closed-minded, phobic, people I've come across in a long time...oh, wait a minute...a lot of these elitist, closed-minded, phobic, people are my fiends...how could that be? Could it be that they get along with...with...a snowboarder? :roll:

I was a skier for 20 years before I started snowboarding. It didn't change my personality when I switched the way I slid down the hill. I didn't change my outlook on skiing and skiers when I made the switch either. I got along with anyone on the hill and vice versa, at areas all over the US...until I came here. And by "here" I don't mean Sugarbush, I mean this forum and the valley in general. The majority of you people are REALLY out of the loop as far as realizing that it is not 1985 any more and that snowboarding became mainstream a LONG time ago...the kind of uninformed closed-minded comments in this thread have reminded me about that for the last time. I've enjoyed corresponding with some of you here - but it just isn't worth it to me to see the attitudes some of you have...it takes away from the enjoyment of living in what otherwise is a really great place. I have some wonderful supporters of my competitive efforts here, and I bet it would surprise a lot of you who those people are - I KNOW it would. Win and the people who matter at Sugarbush listen to me and are open-minded and living in the present - it is truly a pleasure to hang out with those people. So enjoy your sheltered little worlds boarder-phobes...and keep the faith...maybe this sport that is 60 percent of the market will just magically fade away and y'all can bask in the limelight of knowing you had a part in it all...throw a big party in the basebox and pat each other on the back...or maybe not. :P

I've got better things to do with my time than bang my head against the virtual wall of the SKImrv forum...what was I thinking? 8)

SUGARBOARDER... I'm only going to say this once more: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AGAINST SNOWBOARDERS OR WHAT THEY LIKE TO DO ON THE MOUNTAIN!!!!!!!!! All I said is that we get your point... you don't like the no snowboader policy. And, in your shoes, I'd feel the same way.

If you don't want to hear our opinions, then go somewhere else. I've said countless times that I have nothing against snowboarders. Aren't I allowed to have the opinion that I find half-pipes unattractive? Is it not okay that I personally like to ski at MRG, regardless of their boardless policy? It doesn't mean that I'm bigoted against snowboarders. For heaven sake, stop looking for an argument! I have a lot of snowboarding friends... I'm as open-minded as it gets. But I'm still allowed to have an opinion. Good LORD, this is ridiculous. I'm not going to discuss it anymore. I'm not flaming or being nasty with you, I just think you're trying to find something wrong with all of us skiers to expose. You know, we're not as bad as you think we are. I am certainly unaffected by your so-called "MRG syndrome." Yes, I like MRG. But I don't mind sharing the mountain either.

If you're still unhappy and still think I hate "your kind of people," I'll be happy to buy snowboardmrv.com domain for you, and host it. Fine. Enjoy. Although, I'll bet there will be more members and more discussion on skimrv.com :wink: (please take notice of the wink before attacking for anything).

Now that I've gotten that out, I have no hard feelings, and I don't want to attack anyone over this. I'd be happy to share the mountain with you, and ALL of your snowboader friends anytime. :D

You've made some very valuable contributions to this board, so I don't want to sound like I'm flaming or attacking or anything. But really, I'm tired of the petty assumptions and generalizations.

Let's move beyond this. We're bigger people than this, aren't we??? Let's play nice.

Mike_451
03-06-2007, 08:05 PM
Well Said

Lostone
03-06-2007, 08:30 PM
Word I got (I think it was at orientation, but I think I've heard it before, too.) was that the pipe they had last year was more trouble than it was worth.

For the start, the pitch isn't perfect, where it was. Instead they had to make a sigbificant amount of snow, just to sit on the bottom of the pipe to get the pitch right.

What is more, they found that level of pipe was actually good for a very small percentage of riders.

Were you to have good marketing data that "If they build it, they will come." I'm sure Win and Hardy would be interested to see it. As it is, they did build it, and it was promoted. I would guess the idea not to bother, this season, would mean that the management feel "they" didn't come, or at least in te amount to pay them for the work.

As for snowboardmrv.com, be my guest. I'm sure you know these boards aren't that hard to set up, or run.

But you might want to remember there aren't a lot of places in the MRV you can snowboard... at least with lifts, so maybe a different ending? Frankly, Scarlett..... :wink:

Yard Sale
03-07-2007, 12:20 AM
My thoughts on not wanting to see a pipe at LP were limited to the pipe itself and not toward riders of any kind. And I don't have a problem with parks or pipes. I just don't see an appropriate location at LP that would not eat up alot of valuable space and compromise a situation that is pretty damned sweet and quite unique.

Sugarboarder, when I hear you saying that you'd like a pipe I don't interperate that to mean you'd like to eliminate all skiers. Or, would you? :shock: Anyway, I happen to enjoy your contribution to this forum, so I hope you don't take your ball and go home. Though, if you did, Idon't think you'd be gone long. I think you enjoy banging your head against the wall. :wink:

Plowboy
03-07-2007, 07:51 AM
Word I got (I think it was at orientation, but I think I've heard it before, too.) was that the pipe they had last year was more trouble than it was worth.

Where was the pipe last year? From what I remember there wasn't one.

Lostone
03-07-2007, 08:17 AM
I thought they had one, but in case it was near the Gatehouse fireplace, :roll: substitute the phrase "in previous years". :wink:

MntMan4Bush
03-07-2007, 09:17 AM
Easy does it VS. No reason to fan the flames. Where I agree that you have the ratio fairly accurate for SB (maybe 65% skiers) I don't think it has anything to do with the terrain or it's difficulty or what difficulty level snowboarders are "perceived" to be able to obtain. One of my best friends in our ski house has been boarding for 16 years or more and I would challenge any skier to take him some place he can't handle on the mountain. He floats through the trees and rips through bumps with ease. Now given the fact that he's a boarder we do bust his balls, but all in good fun and he gives it back. Regardless pay attention to some of the boarders on the mountain. You might be surprised. There are equally as many bad skiers out there as well. It's just easier to single out boarders. Of course if you can't pick on someone because they're different than you, then what do you have to pick on...... :wink:

As for the pipe last year I thought it was in the same place as always over at ME in front of the deck or have I just melded all of the previous years into one big mega year. Or maybe because of last years lack of snow my brain has selectively chosen to block out those memories.

Sugarboarder - You'll be back. I have feeling you're a glutton for punishment. :lol:

BushMogulMaster
03-07-2007, 09:59 AM
There was never a pipe last year.

MntMan4Bush
03-07-2007, 10:04 AM
I must be loosing my mind then. My bad. What did they have in front of the deck last year then? I have no idea why I'm blanking on this.

BushMogulMaster
03-07-2007, 10:08 AM
I must be loosing my mind then. My bad. What did they have in front of the deck last year then? I have no idea why I'm blanking on this.

Diamond Dogs had a couple of jumps most of the season. That's it, as far as I know.

Plowboy
03-07-2007, 10:52 AM
Yup, thats it.

Tin Woodsman
03-07-2007, 10:18 PM
Personally, I like to hit the pipe and sometime I even like to ski in it.....

Old renderings of the LP base area revitalization included a large half-pipe roughly in the location of the current VH lodge. That would be an ideal slope and would provide great viewing from the VH and SB lifts and liftlines. OTOH, that could get a little crowded with the traffic coming down Spring Fling, Moonshine, Twist and The Mall all effectively converging there as well.

Lostone
03-08-2007, 05:46 PM
Moderator note: This topic has been split, as the snowboard v ski controversy has taken the pipe thread over.

Please move all snowboard / ski comments to that thread. And keep it civil!

Thanx. 8)