GateHouse lodge changes

[TimKeogh]

Let me precede my negative commments with a WOW - THE CONDITIONS WERE AWESOME TODAY

The no bag policy on the main floor is a real PIA. 3 extra tips up the stairs. I'll be parking at North next time
The menu at CastleRock pub is disappointing as well.
My kids want fries and pizza while we had beers, but no.
They had to go to the otherside which was awkward with the waitress - she should have gotten a lot better tip.

:shock:

[Strat]

Let me precede negative my commments with a WOW - THE CONDITIONS WERE AWESOME TODAY

The no bag policy on the main floor is a real PIA. 3 extra tips up the stairs. I'll be parking at North next time
The menu at CastleRock pub is disappointing as well.
My kids want fries and pizza while we had beers, but no.
They had to go to the otherside which was awkward with the waitress - she should have gotten a lot better tip.

:shock:
I'm assuming this is after the lunch hour, or else a quick jaunt upstairs would've made sense...

But I think the Pub is really meant to be just that, a Pub... a bar and not much else... the restaurant is across the way... yes, unfortunate for your situation but I think they designed it that way assuming that there wouldn't be a large demand for food in the bar...

For clarification though, what time were you there?

[sugarboarder]

The no bag policy on the main floor is a real PIA. 3 extra tips up the stairs. I'll be parking at North next time.

I agree...and that little storage area is just a nightmare when it's busy. I've been trying to think of solutions rather than just complaining. First off - there is a huge need for SIGNS upstairs that indicate this policy. The first day I was at south this year, when I came off the hill, I thought all my stuff had been stolen! :shock: I was not happy at all, until someone told me it was moved downstairs, which made me somewhat less unhappy.

The other thing that is bothersome about this policy is the Ambassadors walking around enforcing it - it feels very "cop-like"...like hall monitors at a high school. I think there really should be some racks / boxes / lockers upstairs - seems to be plenty of room.

Side notes: Eventually a nice big fireplace would be nice up there too!! And more ski/board racks at the entry - there were only two of each the other day. :)

I hate to say this, because the building looks so nice from the outside, but I actually preferred the old lodge. Outside decks, bar with a view of the hill, fireplace, lockers. Hmmm. I'm sure the building can be modified over time as the needs become more obvious.

[Strat]

Side notes: Eventually a nice big fireplace would be nice up there too!!
Win has said that a permit was not granted for this...

[Lostone]

For the record, the ambassadors don't like moving the bags either. We'd much rather people didn't put them up there.

The need for signs has been noted.

If you saw the place this weeknd, you wouldn't have said there was plenty of room.

There was no fireplace in the old lodge. That is in the lodge at North, which I like much better. That is a lodge. This, IMNATHO is a cafeteria.

I agree with the need for more racks. Saturday, I noted skis and snowboards all along side the building, and at least one broken window, which I'd bet was from the same.

[sugarboarder]

For the record, the ambassadors don't like moving the bags either. We'd much rather people didn't put them up there. See - "need for signs". how is someone who has never been here supposed to know that? Now, I know you ambassadors are just doing what you are told, no problem there, but Friday I went to get a cup of coffee and when I came back one was about to pick up my stuff and move it downstairs - not good. I'm extra glad I am not in that position this year.


The need for signs has been noted. Good - punch list item number???


If you saw the place this weeknd, you wouldn't have said there was plenty of room.There never will be on weekends no matter what the configuration. What is in the other half of that building? It seems so big outside and so small inside.


There was no fireplace in the old lodge. That is in the lodge at North, which I like much better. That is a lodge. This, IMNATHO is a cafeteria.Really? I thought there was one at the end where the bar was - against the south wall...maybe my mind got put in the storage room last time I was there too?!?!


I agree with the need for more racks. Saturday, I noted skis and snowboards all along side the building, and at least one broken window, which I'd bet was from the same. It sounds like cause and effect will solve that one.

[Plowboy]

I think there was a gas fireplace in the old CR Pub made of round river type stones.

[Lostone]

I thought there was not, but as you are the third person to tell me I was wrong... :cry: ...


...I think you're all lying! :lol:

[bill-now]

Count me in as number four; I would bet my pair of rear entry boots that there was a fireplace on the South wall.

[BushMogulMaster]

Count me in as number four; I would bet my pair of rear entry boots that there was a fireplace on the South wall.

Fine, fine... I'll be number five. :wink: Lostone... I think you might have been wrong :lol:

By the way... there is nothing better than a good pair of rear entry boots! If they still made them, I'd still be wearing them. I'm just afraid of breaking the shells on the old pairs I have... I ski the bumps a little hard for 15+ year old boots! :D

[walks]

Just to throw another kink into the lodge issues. I have found it very hard to move around between the tables in there. They seem to be very close together with more than enough chairs to sit on. I have had to move some chairs out of the isles a few times. I am by no means a small guy but my kids are even having a hard time. I know we will loose sitting space, but is there any way to space the tables out a little more?

Had lunch at Timbers with the family on Saturday. Very pleasing experience. Waiter was great even with them being one short for the day.

[BushMogulMaster]

Just to throw another kink into the lodge issues. I have found it very hard to move around between the tables in there. They seem to be very close together with more than enough chairs to sit on. I have had to move some chairs out of the isles a few times.

YES! Agreed 100%... definitely too close together. They wouldn't have to take out too much seating... maybe even just 2 rows of the big tables, and then respace the rest of them, giving another couple inches. Anything would be nice!

[sugarboarder]

Side notes: Eventually a nice big fireplace would be nice up there too!!
Win has said that a permit was not granted for this...

Unbelieveable...that must have made him happy! So now what - fireplaces are dangerous? Is that why there is no deck too? Hard to believe they still let us ride chairlifts and ski!! :(

[sugarboarder]

There was no fireplace in the old lodge. That is in the lodge at North, which I like much better. That is a lodge. This, IMNATHO is a cafeteria.Really? I thought there was one at the end where the bar was - against the south wall...maybe my mind got put in the storage room last time I was there too?!?!

After reading the above, I searched the storage room for my mind...turns out I still had it all along. Either that or I used to put my boots against the south wall hoping the wall would dry them out!!

[ski_resort_observer]

Side notes: Eventually a nice big fireplace would be nice up there too!!
Win has said that a permit was not granted for this...

Unbelieveable...that must have made him happy! So now what - fireplaces are dangerous? Is that why there is no deck too? Hard to believe they still let us ride chairlifts and ski!! :(

Fireplaces cause they are not very efficient produce alot of pollution, we like our clean air. :D Many towns out west prohibit woodstoves/fireplaces except for only the latest models of woodstoves for all new construction. If you have ever been to SLC, Missoula, Mt or Jackson, Wy when it cold and no wind you would be able to see and smell what the problem is. Even if that is not the reason Gatehouse does not have a fireplace, personally speaking, I am glad it does not.

It's the worst when you have an inversion. It does happen in the east but not to the extent it happens out west. The resort I worked at sometimes it was -40F at the base and above the low clouds in the valley in the sun on the upper mountain it can be +30F. You can imagine the strange result when your sweating like crazy at the summit and you ski to the bottom where it's -40F.

Vermont is very sensitive to air quality issues and keep a very careful eye on ski resorts as they produce the most CO2 emmisions in the state due to their use of diesel power for snowmaking. As you might expect kmart is the biggest problem but all the resorts are working hard to reduce CO2 emmisions and become a much greener industry which is great.

[Yard Sale]

What is the ultimate fate of the Valley House/Mushroom Pub?

The menu at CastleRock pub is disappointing as well.
I have to agree. Just not my thing - I'm a burger and wings kind of guy. The portions were painfully small too. I loved the Mushroom!

The storage area on the first floor was pretty mellow on Friday, but I can imagine that place being packed on the weekend. I didn't get up to the main floor of Gatehouse while I was there.

[bill-now]

I suspect that a gas fireplace in the Gatehouse was omitted was for reasons other than environmental ones. After all, Clay Brook has a gas fireplace in each of the 61 residential units, two in the owners lounge, one in the lobby, and one in Timbers.

[ski_resort_observer]

I suspect that a gas fireplace in the Gatehouse was omitted was for reasons other than environmental ones. After all, Clay Brook has a gas fireplace in each of the 61 residential units, two in the owners lounge, one in the lobby, and one in Timbers.

I suspect that as well as gas fireplaces are actually part of the solution as they produce far less pollutants and no wood smoke. Many of my friends in the valley have replaced their woodstoves with gas/propane units and you can buy ones that are look great and they produce alot of heat. I do have to admit I love the smell of a woodstove and miss it but sometimes you have to look at the big picture.

[random_ski_guy]

My guess is that the fireplace (gas or wood) was taken out of the picture in order to maximize seating. To pay for the new lodge, mgmt needs to squeeze every nickle it can out of that 22,000 sq ft (pardon me if I have the sq ft. wrong). Hence the checked baggage requirement and the tight seating to boot.

[castlerock]

Just to throw another kink into the lodge issues. I have found it very hard to move around between the tables in there. They seem to be very close together with more than enough chairs to sit on. I have had to move some chairs out of the isles a few times.

YES! Agreed 100%... definitely too close together. They wouldn't have to take out too much seating... maybe even just 2 rows of the big tables, and then respace the rest of them, giving another couple inches. Anything would be nice!

The table spacing isn't the problem. The chairs are the problem! Replace them with benches and you would have room for a couple MORE rows of tables.

[walks]

Good point.

[slaw]

Agree 100%. Last weekend I moved several chairs to make room for my kids to get into a table. Benches, yup.

Oh yea, how about some hooks under the bar in the pub to hold jackets, keep helmets off the bar top, etc. I'm sure Shawn would appreciate that. I know I would.

[TimKeogh]

Let all the flatlanders go to South, schlep their bags up and down the stairs, and eat all the foo-foo food at the CastleRock Pub.

I'll meet you guys on the deck outside for a burger, beer and some sunshine!
:lol:

[smootharc]

I suspect that a gas fireplace in the Gatehouse was omitted was for reasons other than environmental ones. After all, Clay Brook has a gas fireplace in each of the 61 residential units, two in the owners lounge, one in the lobby, and one in Timbers.

I suspect that as well as gas fireplaces are actually part of the solution as they produce far less pollutants and no wood smoke. Many of my friends in the valley have replaced their woodstoves with gas/propane units and you can buy ones that are look great and they produce alot of heat. I do have to admit I love the smell of a woodstove and miss it but sometimes you have to look at the big picture.

....and I was skeptical. I love the act of building a fire.

But I've learned to love the act of walking to the wall and pressing a button when we arrive....for a quick burst of very efficient and I dare say beautiful looking "fire". Pop it on for 10 minutes here and there for heat or atmosphere, then, "click", off it goes.

Just haven't figured a way to make smores in it.....the glass gets in the way. :wink:

[Tin Woodsman]

I'm glad someone started this thread, b/c I would have if it hadn't been. Problems with the Gate House Lodge - let me count the ways....


1) With neither the VH Lodge nor the pending Skier Services Bldg in place, it is way, WAY overcrowded on a typical weekend/holiday. Don't give me the BS cop-out that you can't size the bldg for that crowd - that's where you make you money!! Because there is too little seating area, they have attempted to put too many rows of tables in the seating space, thereby making it next to impossible to move around for much of the day. This is not a matter of opinion - this is plain fact. As much as I love, promote and evangelize about SB, only the most blind of apologists could not see this.

2) The ongoing experiment in human behavior modification (i.e the no bags/shoes policy upstairs) is and will continue to be an abject failure. It puts the Ambassadors in a tough spot as the enforcers and simply creates bad will with the customers. This issue is related to #1 above - the lodge is too small in the first place, so you need the policy to keep walking lanes open, but the bag room is also to small. Also, this is Deer Valley, folks. It isn't even Stratton. Put some damn racks and pegs on the walls of the pretty new bldg and make a concession to pragmatism and reality. This will continue to be an issue and just with the aborted policy last year in the old GH, it will fail in this structure too. Really a case of overthinking here.

3) Speaking of overthinking and things being too small (no, we're not talking about my sex life here folks), it has by now become quite apparent the the Castlerock Pub is far too small to handle the typical weekend/holiday apres crush. I took a look in there this past weekend when thirsty for a frosty adult beverage. Twas a total mob scene, again, and I kept on walking. I'm not sure how that small space was supposed to replace the entirety of the old CR pub, the Wunderbar and the Mushroom. Quite clearly, it can't. And the outside space associated with the new CR Pub, while snazzy looking, it forever destined to remained underutilized. Seriously, how many days per year is it going to be open? Sure was empty this weekend with those cold temps. Again, this isn't Deer Valley or Chamonix - it's a nice, but unnecessary touch that will be fun for a few weekends in later Feb or March, but otherwise useless. Of course, this again goes back to #1 - the building is too small.

4) I was in line mid-lunch rush hour on Saturday and the condiments/utensils stands were a bit of a mess with several bins or items empty. No big deal - this happens during a busy lunch rush. When Adam and Win tries to remedy the situation, their first point of contact to the kitchen staff were the salad/soup guys who have, to be fair, only a tenuous grasp on certain aspects of the English language. Words like "ketchup" were apparently not in the training program. With such a beautiful (albeit small) bldg, this just shouldn't be the case.

And sure I'd love to see a fireplace to in order to warm the place up (more from a design perspective than actual warmth on the skin), but that's probably far down the list of issues.

I think you have to consider running some sort of skeleton operation at Valley House on weekend and holidays only. Have some sandwiches and basic drinks available - sort of like a glorified Allyn's Lodge set up. If you could entice just a few hundred people over there through the course of the day, it would make a noticeable difference, IMHO.

[bill-now]

When considering the GH lodge you also need to take into account the other uses planned for this building. My impression is that one of the design goals was to make it suitable for wedding receptions and business conferences. This also ties in with keeping Clay Brook/ Timbers busy throughout the year.

I haven't been in the new lodge when it was crowded; but I do remember that the old lodge had serious crowd issues also. This seems to be the case with almost all ski areas I have visited.

[TimKeogh]

I'm glad someone started this thread, b/c I would have if it hadn't been. Problems with the Gate House Lodge - let me count the ways....



#5) Advertising and Announcements over the PA system.
This will get overused as time goes by and it is really annoying...

[Tin Woodsman]

True, but last year you could always head to the VH lodge which was usually less crowded. No such option this year, unless you brown bag it, alas.

[sugarboarder]

I'm glad someone started this thread, b/c I would have if it hadn't been. Problems with the Gate House Lodge - let me count the ways....


1) With neither the VH Lodge nor the pending Skier Services Bldg in place, it is way, WAY overcrowded on a typical weekend/holiday. Don't give me the BS cop-out that you can't size the bldg for that crowd - that's where you make you money!! Because there is too little seating area, they have attempted to put too many rows of tables in the seating space, thereby making it next to impossible to move around for much of the day. This is not a matter of opinion - this is plain fact. As much as I love, promote and evangelize about SB, only the most blind of apologists could not see this.

2) The ongoing experiment in human behavior modification (i.e the no bags/shoes policy upstairs) is and will continue to be an abject failure. It puts the Ambassadors in a tough spot as the enforcers and simply creates bad will with the customers. This issue is related to #1 above - the lodge is too small in the first place, so you need the policy to keep walking lanes open, but the bag room is also to small. Also, this is Deer Valley, folks. It isn't even Stratton. Put some damn racks and pegs on the walls of the pretty new bldg and make a concession to pragmatism and reality. This will continue to be an issue and just with the aborted policy last year in the old GH, it will fail in this structure too. Really a case of overthinking here.

3) Speaking of overthinking and things being too small (no, we're not talking about my sex life here folks), it has by now become quite apparent the the Castlerock Pub is far too small to handle the typical weekend/holiday apres crush. I took a look in there this past weekend when thirsty for a frosty adult beverage. Twas a total mob scene, again, and I kept on walking. I'm not sure how that small space was supposed to replace the entirety of the old CR pub, the Wunderbar and the Mushroom. Quite clearly, it can't. And the outside space associated with the new CR Pub, while snazzy looking, it forever destined to remained underutilized. Seriously, how many days per year is it going to be open? Sure was empty this weekend with those cold temps. Again, this isn't Deer Valley or Chamonix - it's a nice, but unnecessary touch that will be fun for a few weekends in later Feb or March, but otherwise useless. Of course, this again goes back to #1 - the building is too small.

4) I was in line mid-lunch rush hour on Saturday and the condiments/utensils stands were a bit of a mess with several bins or items empty. No big deal - this happens during a busy lunch rush. When Adam and Win tries to remedy the situation, their first point of contact to the kitchen staff were the salad/soup guys who have, to be fair, only a tenuous grasp on certain aspects of the English language. Words like "ketchup" were apparently not in the training program. With such a beautiful (albeit small) bldg, this just shouldn't be the case.

And sure I'd love to see a fireplace to in order to warm the place up (more from a design perspective than actual warmth on the skin), but that's probably far down the list of issues.

I think you have to consider running some sort of skeleton operation at Valley House on weekend and holidays only. Have some sandwiches and basic drinks available - sort of like a glorified Allyn's Lodge set up. If you could entice just a few hundred people over there through the course of the day, it would make a noticeable difference, IMHO.

You are getting to be a PITA! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[sugarboarder]

Let all the flatlanders go to South, schlep their bags up and down the stairs, and eat all the foo-foo food at the CastleRock Pub.

I'll meet you guys on the deck outside for a burger, beer and some sunshine!
:lol:

AND...hanging out in front of a WOOD burning fireplace - NIIIICE!!!

[sugarboarder]

#5) Advertising and Announcements over the PA system.
This will get overused as time goes by and it is really annoying...

And WAAAY too loud - when I was there last wek at least! :shock:

[win]

I am reading all the comments but don't agree with all. Agree that we still need to make some adjustments. There was no permit issue with the fireplace. We chose not to put one in the Gate House. There will be more storage shelves put in and the coin operated lockers taken out because they are not being used. We are going to keep bags out of the second floor. Other areas do that and it can work. In the masterplan we are looking at a lodge at the top of Gate House for food service in addition to the Guest Service Lodge. We would also like to expand the Glen House one day.

I will leave you with one fact. We do have more seating this year counting Gate House, Castlerock Pub and Timbers than we had with everything last year. That said we can improve!

[Strat]

There was no permit issue with the fireplace.

My fault, I guess I imagined that...

I think the issue that many people have is that the Gate House is not really a lodge for lounging in... it's a cafeteria space... the Mt. Ellen Lodge has a much more homey feel, with the fireplace and the couches and everything, but the Gate House is not really about that, it's about satisfying the lunchtime needs of as many people as possible, hence the tightly packed tables and lack of fireplace... I think to truly satisfy that "warm up by the fire" need, there needs to be a lodge seperate from the cafeteria area with a nice fireplace, couches, maybe a minor hot chocolate/coffee/cookies offering... just to provide that loungey, warm space feel...

Obviously that doesn't address the bag questions, but those are logistical issues that can be worked out in the current space...

[Yard Sale]

Let all the flatlanders go to South, schlep their bags up and down the stairs, and eat all the foo-foo food at the CastleRock Pub.

I'll meet you guys on the deck outside for a burger, beer and some sunshine!
:lol:

AND...hanging out in front of a WOOD burning fireplace - NIIIICE!!!


We the Flatlanders accept your unconditional surrender of SB South. No taksie backsies niether.

Furthermore, I happen to like schlepping. A time honored method of luggage conveyance. No wheels on my luggage thank you very much. I prefer to schlep it.

As for that new lodge, well it's true it's got some bugs to work out such as the soda being to fizzy some times. Luckily I never ski with out carrying a spork in my fanny pack. So I can stir the soda until its just the right fizziness. Hopefully Summit Ventures adds this fizziness problem to the punch list.

Hey by the way did it snow this past weekend? :)

[sugarboarder]

We the Flatlanders accept your unconditional surrender of SB South. No taksie backsies niether.

Furthermore, I happen to like schlepping. A time honored method of luggage conveyance. No wheels on my luggage thank you very much. I prefer to schlep it.

As for that new lodge, well it's true it's got some bugs to work out such as the soda being to fizzy some times. Luckily I never ski with out carrying a spork in my fanny pack. So I can stir the soda until its just the right fizziness. Hopefully Summit Ventures adds this fizziness problem to the punch list.

You ski with a fanny pack?? :P

Sporks rule!!

[HowieT2]

Furthermore, I happen to like schlepping. A time honored method of luggage conveyance. No wheels on my luggage thank you very much. I prefer to schlep it.

As for that new lodge, well it's true it's got some bugs to work out such as the soda being to fizzy some times. Luckily I never ski with out carrying a spork in my fanny pack. So I can stir the soda until its just the right fizziness. Hopefully Summit Ventures adds this fizziness problem to the punch list.

LOL-I'm sure the percentage of bubbles is high on the punch list.

BTW- I'm big on the schlepping too but I just had to buy a new boot bag and I got one with rollers. It's great.

[Hardbooter]

I think Sugarbush should learn from the feedback on the new gatehouse lodge and apply that to the next building that would house ski school and the rental shop. What I would like to see in a new building is a cafe/coffee shop. I'd like a nice relaxed place that is lower key than the gatehouse (so it better be roomy) with tables and couches and maybe a fireplace since everyone seems to be missing that. It would probably be a good idea to include some retail space for sugarbush T shirts and so forth. If you want to be really Starbucksy you could add wireless internet just to be hip and cool.
This idea was my wife's reaction to the new gatehouse lodge. She thought it would be nice to have a place where non skiers and spouses could go just to relax and read the newspaper (she is actually a snowboarder and skier but she's not as fanatical as I am.) Having it near the ski school would make sense since a lot of parents want a nice place to wait for their kids or chill out after dropping them off. It would also be a nice fit with any other retail space that Sugarbush might be planning for that building.

[gottdogg]

I agree that the lodge looks great and serves the primary purpose of feeding the masses. I also understand that this lodge is just the start of continued plans for base revitalization. However, the CastleRock pub, IMHO, is way too small and the menu does not cut it. This is especially true with so few other apres ski opportunities near the mountain. Also, while the Timbers is a visually spectacular building and space, it is just not realistic to include it as a base lodge. The average skiier or boarder who uses the lodge is not looking for that level of a resteraunt in two ways -- monetarily and practically.

I also strongly agree that something needs to be done with respect to the learning center. My 3 kids -- ages 5, 3, and 1 are frequent users of the ski school and day care. We appreciate the staff and the quality of the instruction but have to emphasize that it is not set up that great currently. While the future building will alleviate the majority of my current concerns (spread out at different locations and pain in the arse to lug the kids accross parking lot and then slight trek to magic carpet). However, the fact that there is no place nearby to get a snack for your kids (not true if they are in mini-bears) after or to sit and wait while your children ski a lesson makes it difficult, especially for the non-skiing parent (not me but I have had several people gripe to me about it).

Thus, I think that Hardbooter is on to something with respect to the learning center. This would also be an alternative spot for the claybrook owners to grab a quick cup of joe and a muffin before hitting the slopes.

In a related matter, any chance of getting a membership to use the pool and hot tub at Claybrook? Every time I walk by and see the pool empty, I am devestated that I cannot enjoy it.

Looking forward to continued improvement of the facilities and success for the mountain and community.

[ski_resort_observer]

I can relate to the need of non skier/rider parents for a place to chill. If resorts did not have a place like that I probably would not have been able to ski other hills other than my home mountain as my parents spent the entire day in the lodge, while my brother and I skied.

I have a few friends who drop their kids off and are not skiing for the day. Here is what they do. Take the shuttle/drive over to ME and relax upstairs in the base lodge there. They keep in touch by cell phone. One friend takes the shuttle/drives into Waitsfield and spends a few hours perusing the galleries and other shopping. Another goes over to SHARC and goes swimming or soaks the stress away in the steam room. There is a fee for that one. I also heard you can go over to Timbers and maybe get coffee or tea and relax for a few hours reading a paper or a book. No firsthand info on that one tho.

Don't know if any of these will work for you, just some suggestions. :D

I do want to interject a point that needs to be considered here. Every seasonal resort faces a financial dilema. During a weekend or holiday Gatehouse might be too small but for the rest of the time, it's too big. More of those days in a season than the busy ones. From a business perspective this has to be considered. Sometimes I think running a business is just an endless series of cost vs benefit decisions. Some sort of compromise has to be made. That's why you have to wait on Sat night for a table at a favorite restaurant, having to wait to get a lane on League Night or a slot on the driving range during a bust time.

A few ski resorts have solved this problem by having a strict limit of days ski tiks sold. Others charge for parking to solve parking problems. I doubt that will ever happen at the Bush. In the words of the great Red Green, "we are in this together". This situation will improve, no question about that.

[Hardbooter]

If its designed correctly, I think it will take a lot of the strain off the Gatehouse. If all those kids were eating lunch somewhere else it would free up a lot of table space for the rest of us. (Just for the record, I have nothing against kids.) Getting food over to the new building might be a hassle for the staff though.

While I'm at it, I'll chime in on a couple of other related topics. I think the new castle rock pub is the only _major_ f**k up in the new building. The other problems can be solved. It needed to be bigger, not smaller than the old one. The old one was always jammed and it spilled over into the the rest of the room. It was also small enough that the band was often deafening. The noise level kept me out of there on most afternoons. I think the architects hadn't spent enough time in the old castlerock to understand that outside seating is only useful about half of the time at best. I don't think there is much of a solution. The best they could do would be to add a tent around the outdoor area and let people spill into the courtyard even when the wind is blowing and its freezing out. I've seen this at other ski areas. Its not pretty but its practical.
I've also been drooling over the empty pool. It might be a bit more festive if more people used the pool, so how about it? Is it too soon to change the condo bylaws? I know the claybrook owners payed an arm and a leg but how about letting some of our kids pee in your pool?

[ski_resort_observer]

While I'm at it, I'll chime in on a couple of other related topics. I think the new castle rock pub is the only _major_ f**k up in the new building.

That comment pretty much explains in a nutshell why the Bush has no interest in a big bar scene at Gatehouse Lodge. :roll: :lol:

[win]

Continued good points! Thanks! By the way, Gate House is WIFI!

[skiladi]

Let all the flatlanders go to South, schlep their bags up and down the stairs, and eat all the foo-foo food at the CastleRock Pub.

I'll meet you guys on the deck outside for a burger, beer and some sunshine!
:lol:

Now that we are in "mid-season" I'm fortunate I can ski home for lunch. Fireplace , tunes , beer , throw my gear around , whathaveyou. If I was on the condo rte. I would do the same. And on nice days I pack it and go al fresco. Early/Late season I will continue to spend quality time at North enjoying the fireplace , beers , hooks for my gear , etc. ( I will miss Shawn ). North has a real lodge. Don't change it! TK , I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. Intentional or not , this will be the new face of Sugarbush.

[Tin Woodsman]

I am reading all the comments but don't agree with all. Agree that we still need to make some adjustments. There was no permit issue with the fireplace. We chose not to put one in the Gate House. There will be more storage shelves put in and the coin operated lockers taken out because they are not being used. We are going to keep bags out of the second floor. Other areas do that and it can work. In the masterplan we are looking at a lodge at the top of Gate House for food service in addition to the Guest Service Lodge. We would also like to expand the Glen House one day.

I will leave you with one fact. We do have more seating this year counting Gate House, Castlerock Pub and Timbers than we had with everything last year. That said we can improve!

Win -

As always, thanks for continued participation on this board. Quite simply - it matters, even if some of us sometimes degenerate into nonsensical raving lunatics.

Glad to hear you'll add more storage, though I wish the room itself were bigger - it was really nice the last year or two in the olf bldg to have that downstairs area for booting up in a relaxed, uncrowded manner. Interesting on the potential new lodge at the top of GH lift. Makes a lot of sense.

That said, I'm not sure how the C-Rock Pub and Timbers seats are 100% relevant to the discussion above. I can't imagine that a ton of people are going to head into Timbers for a quick bowl of chili. And the stool seating in the pub isn't really what I'm looking to relax on in the middle of the day. Also, while "other areas" may keep bags out of the seating area, how many of those other areas are in New England? Out West? Sure - but I think there's a different vibe here, though I've admittedly not visited every place in the NE. I reiterate my belief that this policy will continue to be unpopular and should probably fall apart under the weight of its own contradictions.

Oh, and the TVs are too small to see unless you are within a row or two of them.

[sugarboarder]

Oh, and the TVs are too small to see unless you are within a row or two of them.

Yes yes, we want HUGE flat screen TV's hung from the ceiling with video loops of FIREPLACES!! And surround sound of a crackling fire, and artificial smoke smell blown in therough the duct work...AND artificial snow when it doesn't snow naturally...wait, we have that already...so yes, just the HUGE TV's please Win. :wink: :wink: :wink:

[BushMogulMaster]

AND artificial snow when it doesn't snow naturally...wait, we have that already...

Ahem... may I interject and point out that man-made snow is not artificial :roll: . It is formed the same basic way as real snow... air and water. Therefore, it is real snow, just made by machines. :wink:

[sugarboarder]

...AND artificial snow when it doesn't snow naturally...wait, we have that already...

Ahem... may I interject and point out that man-made snow is not artificial :roll: . It is formed the same basic way as real snow... air and water. Therefore, it is real snow, just made by machines. :wink:

Made by machines? You mean like...like...TERMINATOR??

[sugarboarder]

For the record, the ambassadors don't like moving the bags either. We'd much rather people didn't put them up there.

The need for signs has been noted.

I have a new outlook on this! I think I was just looking at the no bags upstairs rule the wrong way. What we have is actually a "bag/gear valet" service. It's great. I change into my gear and then just leave the boots and bags in a chair. Then the valet comes and picks it up and takes it downstairs for me. It's wonderful! :D

[BushMogulMaster]

For the record, the ambassadors don't like moving the bags either. We'd much rather people didn't put them up there.

The need for signs has been noted.

I have a new outlook on this! I think I was just looking at the no bags upstairs rule the wrong way. What we have is actually a "bag/gear valet" service. It's great. I change into my gear and then just leave the boots and bags in a chair. Then the valet comes and picks it up and takes it downstairs for me. It's wonderful! :D

:lol: Way to look at the bright side of things!

[DaveW]

AND artificial snow when it doesn't snow naturally...wait, we have that already...

Ahem... may I interject and point out that man-made snow is not artificial :roll: . It is formed the same basic way as real snow... air and water. Therefore, it is real snow, just made by machines. :wink:




Personally I think of it as "domestic" or "imported" snow

[thinksnow]

For the record, the ambassadors don't like moving the bags either. We'd much rather people didn't put them up there.

The need for signs has been noted.

I have a new outlook on this! I think I was just looking at the no bags upstairs rule the wrong way. What we have is actually a "bag/gear valet" service. It's great. I change into my gear and then just leave the boots and bags in a chair. Then the valet comes and picks it up and takes it downstairs for me. It's wonderful! :D

You know, you're right! I think EVERYONE should do that!

[Lostone]

You have heard about the carrying fee, haven't you? :wink:

[sugarboarder]

You have heard about the carrying fee, haven't you? :wink:

I thought that was included in the "additional overcharge" and the "additional overcharge administration fee"?

[thinksnow]

You have heard about the carrying fee, haven't you? :wink:

HMM, GOOD QUESTION.
WHERE WOULD I HAVE SEEN THIS?
WHERE WOULD I HAVE HEARD THIS?
OVER THE WAY-TOO-LOUD P.A. SYSTEM?

W H E R E A R E T H E S I G N S ?

IS IT WRITTEN IN THE TRAIL MAP?
IS IT LISTED ON THE WEB PAGE?
HOW HAS THE MOUNTAIN BEEN DISSEMINATING THIS INFORMATION?
BY BAG POLICE?

WOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE?

[Hardbooter]

Wait until the theives learn about the bag valet scheme. My wife has had stuff stolen from Sugarbush before. Its no fun. I'll leave my things in my car, thanks.

[thinksnow]

Wait until the theives learn about the bag valet scheme.

Good point!

[Lostone]

HMM, GOOD QUESTION.
WHERE WOULD I HAVE SEEN THIS?
WHERE WOULD I HAVE HEARD THIS?
OVER THE WAY-TOO-LOUD P.A. SYSTEM?

W H E R E A R E T H E S I G N S ?

IS IT WRITTEN IN THE TRAIL MAP?
IS IT LISTED ON THE WEB PAGE?
HOW HAS THE MOUNTAIN BEEN DISSEMINATING THIS INFORMATION?
BY BAG POLICE?

WOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE?


Psst... It was a joke! :roll:

Reminder: What I post here is from me. It is no official policy of Sugarbush, Sugarbush.com, Summit Ventures, or the CIA. (oops! :shock:

Pssst ... The CIA part was a joke, too! :roll: :wink:

[Plowboy]

CIA? Lostone, were you the host on the Gong Show?

[BushMogulMaster]

or the CIA. (oops! :shock:

Pssst ... The CIA part was a joke, too! :roll: :wink:

I always knew there was something strange about you, Lostone! :wink:

[thinksnow]

[quote]HMM, GOOD QUESTION.
WHERE WOULD I HAVE SEEN THIS?
WHERE WOULD I HAVE HEARD THIS?
OVER THE WAY-TOO-LOUD P.A. SYSTEM?

W H E R E A R E T H E S I G N S ?

IS IT WRITTEN IN THE TRAIL MAP?
IS IT LISTED ON THE WEB PAGE?
HOW HAS THE MOUNTAIN BEEN DISSEMINATING THIS INFORMATION?
BY BAG POLICE?

WOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE?


Psst... It was a joke! :roll:


My points are still valid~

[ski_it]

hey thinksnow- it's hard to tell from your post what tone you'd be speaking in if you were, in fact, speaking instead of typing, but all-caps generally indicates shouting. Regardless of tone, we can tell that you have some "valid" complaints about mtn "business practices." You also implied in another post that you work at the mtn as an ambassador-- doesn't that give you a venue for making suggestions to management? Have you made these suggestions through that channel?

As far as the PA system goes, maybe I'm going deaf or something, but I haven't found it to be too loud. There's nothing worse than hearing that an announcement is being made over a PA system but not being able to actually hear what's being said in the announcement. I don't want to miss the one that says, for example, that North Lynx is finally open, etc.

If you're spending a lot of time in the lodge (or working there), I can see how many repeated announcements over the PA could get annoying, but that really isn't the case for most of us who make a point to spend as little time in there as possible.

[thinksnow]

ski_it--You may want to reread my posts. I never said I worked at the mountain as an ambassador. I said I work in the ski industry as both a travel agent (specifically for winter sports) and as ski patrol. Feel free to interpret all caps however you like, but again, its what I am saying, not how I am saying it-- I was using them for emphasis-- to somewhat imitate what was happening over the PA system. I was actually using this message board as a means to make my point to management, since I was told (correctly) that Win reads them. I guess you could be right about the PA system if the messages heard were short, but when I was there, the speaker went on for a good 10 minutes (or so it seemed). That can be a bit much when its early in the morning, and you have become accustomed to expect a quiet lodge for, oh, the past 20 years or so. If they were announcements about lifts being open, that would be one thing....but as I remember it, they were simply long-winded advertisements. Oh, that-- and being told, very loudly, what NOT (<-- emphasis) to do with your boot bag.

[ski_it]

got it. You're right-- I misread your earlier post. Your position is well understood, and this certainly is a reasonable venue to make your point of view known.

[thinksnow]

Thank you for validating my opinion~