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View Full Version : Timbers! (And Foodservice in General)



CapeSkiGuy
12-17-2006, 10:28 PM
Had lunch in Timbers with my wife on Saturday afternoon.

OUTSTANDING!

Food is excellent, atmosphere is great...there is even a fireplace! This is absolutely a beautiful piece of architecture, and it is executed and decorated wonderfully. We will be regulars, without question. The staff is friendly and courteous, the menu is creative and daring, and the food itself is absolutely some of the freshest stuff I have ever eaten at a resort area.

Well done, and well thought out. Oh, and the Clay Brook building ain't too bad either! It will look great in deep snow! :D

Treeskier
12-18-2006, 08:59 AM
My friends and I had dinner opening night at Timbers.

http://www.clubxtaski.com/061215_17/images/109.jpg
http://www.clubxtaski.com/061215_17/images/096.jpg

Peter Knoles after 36 hours of working to get it opens looks good here. Nice Job!

http://www.clubxtaski.com/061215_17/images/094c.jpg

The food was yummy and well presented

http://www.clubxtaski.com/061215_17/images/106.jpg
http://www.clubxtaski.com/061215_17/images/107.jpg
http://www.clubxtaski.com/061215_17/images/115.jpg

I recommend that if you have the time to make the reservations and have dinner there.

(There is coupon in the Brovo Book)

Here are a couple fun image
http://www.clubxtaski.com/061208_09/images/001.jpg
http://www.clubxtaski.com/061208_09/images/002e.jpg

Lostone
12-18-2006, 09:11 AM
Looked like a good time. (And me without a Bravo book. :cry: )

It would be great for someone to add one or both of these reviews in the Valley Restaurant Review thread. (http://forums.skimrv.com/viewtopic.php?t=428)

Also, for those not knowing about the thread, any reviews of other places you might be willing to share would be great. 8)

ski_resort_observer
12-18-2006, 09:50 AM
Treeskier -

Thanks for sharing your experience and pics. The food looks great, they say we eat with our eyes.
Curious how you got that almost cartoon-like look on the outside Timbers shot. Very cool

freeheel_skier
12-18-2006, 10:41 AM
Food looked so good, I could even smell it over the internet!

Treeskier
12-19-2006, 08:31 PM
So who has been there since?

Strat
12-19-2006, 08:38 PM
The decor's a bit... eccentric... those couches? Not complaining, just...interesting...

Post-Christmas I plan to venture up on a Saturday night and check out the fare...

freeheel_skier
12-19-2006, 09:39 PM
The couches give it a comfy lounge atmosphere....albeit country lounge. It's a nice place to sit, chill out and drink some adult beverages with friends 8)

ski_it
12-19-2006, 11:37 PM
My wife and I had lunch there on Saturday. It was great! I had the burger with homemade ketchup, "blue-ribbon" colby cheese, and onions-- excellent. My wife had the ham sandwich with smoked gouda cheese, apple slices, and honey maple mustard on a baguette. She really enjoyed it. The place looks incredible inside. I was definitely very impressed. It was so nicely appointed, with white tablecloths, cloth napkins, microfiber booths, leather chairs, wood floor, etc. that it initially felt strange to be walking around in there in ski boots and gore-tex. We got over it. It is at a ski resort, after all. Looking forward to going back for dinner sometime.

freeheel_skier
12-29-2006, 03:40 PM
I ate there with my family last night. I have to say I had a very poor expierence. They are definitely understaffed. The staff were working their butt's off! I know it has only been open a couple weeks so I will take that into consideration. Service was extremely slow. The scallops were fantastic! :D My app never made it to the table :? I got to taste a little bit of everyone else's apps. Three of us got the Tenderloin steaks that were under cooked and the mashed potatoes were cold! My wife's pork tenderloin was raw in the middle! :shock: I hope my expierence was a fluke.

The atmosphere was a 10! :D However it didn't make up for the poor service. The menu was difficult to read....very wordy(?). I had to read thru it 3 times to make heads or tails. Maybe it was just me. :? Also, there should be a host station when you walk in. The hosts were busy setting & busing tables. :(

I will give it another shot in a few weeks. :wink:

slaw
01-02-2007, 09:05 AM
Went into Timbers Sunday at around noon looking for a six top. Hostess said they would have a table in 15 mins, no problem, saddled up for a couple of LT's. Table took 45+ mins to get. Bartender during the wait was way overwhelmed. (she did have a nice demeanor and consistent smile though)

After we sat down, waited for another 20 mins for some sign of service, got nothing. Six top got up and left, went back to Super Bravo fueled by Long Trail. Timbers looks great although that floor is a problem in ski boots when wet. Watch out.

Sure looks to me as if they need staff help. Will try again next weekend.

The mountian was great. Earned some turns that made for a great couple of days.

Tin Woodsman
01-02-2007, 09:13 AM
I've modified the title of this thread b/c I think, with the new foodservice team, this is an issue that deserves to be discussed in a broader context. Interesting comment re: the slippery fall. I had heard from a friend on Sunday that they saw someone slip and fall in Timbers with their boots on. This will be an issue going forward it seems.

Second, while the food quality is definitely better in the Gate House, something really has to be done about the staffing. The lines were ridiculous this weekend - I've never seen anything like it even during the busiest of holiday weeks. The staffing levels were quite simply inadequate. You don't short staff the cafeteria, especially when some have a shaky grasp on the English language, on the busiest week of the year. It's really that simple. Even if you have to bring in some extra help for the 11:30-1:30 rush, please just do it. The back-up at the salad/soup/sandwich station was a disgrace. As mentioned in a previous post, having just one lonely kid at the Glen House on X-Mas day was a bad situation for him and for the customers.

Bubba
01-02-2007, 09:41 AM
[quote="Tin Woodsman"]
Second, while the food quality is definitely better in the Gate House, something really has to be done about the staffing. The lines were ridiculous this weekend - I've never seen anything like it even during the busiest of holiday weeks. The staffing levels were quite simply inadequate. You don't short staff the cafeteria, especially when some have a shaky grasp on the English language, on the busiest week of the year. It's really that simple. Even if you have to bring in some extra help for the 11:30-1:30 rush, please just do it. The back-up at the salad/soup/sandwich station was a disgrace. [\quote]

Better signage and someone directing traffic would be a big help. It seems that most people see a line and get into it even though they don't know where it goes. Folks are confused by the "station" concept and don't understand that if they want a hot dog they can go straight to the hot dog station.

As an employee and a 30 year veteran food service professional I'm embarassed by the condiment station. Let's at least make an effort to clean that stuff. When I see that kind of lack of effort in the front of the house the first thing I think is, "What does the kitchen look like?".

As for Chef Carosi:
I won't even get into my experience at Timbers except that food was VERY slow coming out of the kitchen on a quiet night and our server, and I now assume all of them, need to be trained in tableside wine service.
When I heard Chef Carosi talk of "putting the Pitcher Inn to shame" I was dissapointed. When I heard that he went to Chez Henri and introduced himself as the guy that will put them out of buisiness I was disgusted.
Maybe Mr. Carosi should have dinner at the Pitcher Inn or Chez Henri or one of the other fine establishments we have in the valley to see what excellent food and service is all about before he starts talking trash.

win
01-02-2007, 10:21 AM
I am not going to comment on the most of the specifics raised other than to say that whenever something opens hard like everything did the past two weeks, there are going to be issues that need to be improved, and I think we are aware of most of them but do appreciate everyone's comment. Overall, I got very good comments. When we opened the Pitcher Inn 10 years ago, we had many of the same comments for the first couple of weeks until everything settled in.

On the 31st, our skier visits we 90% of our busiest day since we owned the mountain. While they may have been more glitches, I personally thought we handled that volume very well. The mountain with only 68 of 111 trails opened did not seem overly crowded and the lift lines flowed well. Timbers turned over 4 times and while it was very busy in the Gate House people found seats and the food lines flowed OK. This time I do not agree with Tin.

As far as Bubba's comments go, I never believe third hand comments that are attributed to someone. Here is my position. We encourage competition. It makes everyone better and we want everyone in the Valley to do well.

CapeSkiGuy
01-02-2007, 11:02 AM
Thanks for responding, Win. I started this thread, and still think Timbers is going to be a wonderful place and a big asset for SB. My wife and I tried to get in New Year's Eve, but hadn't realized it would be closed for a party. My bad. Anyway, we never judge a restaurant until it has been open for quite some time. It isn't fair to the management and staff. We will keep coming back, and we are sure it will improve steadily and take its rightful place.

As an off-topic aside, I was there on the 31st also, and your people did a great job. It was busy as heck, but I never saw even one staffer who wasn't smiling. They did an especially good job at the Gatehouse skier services desk...and the woman who was the "traffic cop" in the locker room area deserves a raise. She handled a tough day with a lot of finesse.

Tin Woodsman
01-02-2007, 11:19 AM
On the 31st, our skier visits we 90% of our busiest day since we owned the mountain. While they may have been more glitches, I personally thought we handled that volume very well. The mountain with only 68 of 111 trails opened did not seem overly crowded and the lift lines flowed well. Timbers turned over 4 times and while it was very busy in the Gate House people found seats and the food lines flowed OK. This time I do not agree with Tin.

Fair enough. I'll respectfully disagree, as the experiences of my wife and others in my circle were decidedly different. Signage would be a help, and I think more staffing at key times as well (there and in Glen House). The $10-15/hr you spend (including benefits) on an extra FTE generates wonderful returns in terms of the customer experience.

AngryJohnny
01-02-2007, 11:42 AM
I had a chance to make my 1st visit to Timbers/CR pub this past weekend and first and foremost want to commend on how wonderful LP looks and well it skied on Sunday. :D
My first comment in terms of Timbers is to resonate the sentiment of others that it is probably to early to judge the operations/service at Timbers. As a long time friend of a person who own and operates 2 restuarants in Beantown there is the expectations of experiencing the "growing pains" in the course of the 1st couple of months.
Albeit I was dispaponied in the service and staffing levels at both CR Pub & Timbers, I would also like to agree that the staff kept their chins up and were VERY pleasant.
Here is one casual oberservance I witnessed not only Sunday but as a 8yr vet of SB and loyal apres customer of the old Wonderbar...the staff needs to learn how to multi task. It seems that the wait service can only handle one customer/order/table at a time. I saw a lot of "standing around" the cash register at Timbers on Sunday. I think one kid didn't move for five minutes and the 2nd bartender "disappeared" during the critical rush as disgruntled CR Pub customers came over to Timbers.
"Yes" boot wearing in Timbers WILL be a problem...a friend of mine took a digger!
Personally I would vote for "no boots' in Timbers but if you need to keep it available for CR Pub overflow then so be it. :?:
My last comment/recommendation is this...NO family camping out in the CR Pub! Someone brought cooler in and camped out there all day long. :evil:
Overall...very pleased. (See I am not so Angry after all!)

freeheel_skier
01-02-2007, 11:44 AM
On the 31st, our skier visits we 90% of our busiest day since we owned the mountain. While they may have been more glitches, I personally thought we handled that volume very well. The mountain with only 68 of 111 trails opened did not seem overly crowded and the lift lines flowed well. Timbers turned over 4 times and while it was very busy in the Gate House people found seats and the food lines flowed OK. This time I do not agree with Tin.

Was that @ full seating capacity? I know the evening I went to dinner there were many empty tables. Only three reservations @ 8pm in the book. I didn't see any tables turn when I was there.


I am not going to comment on the most of the specifics raised other than to say that whenever something opens hard like everything did the past two weeks, there are going to be issues that need to be improved, and I think we are aware of most of them but do appreciate everyone's comment. Overall, I got very good comments. When we opened the Pitcher Inn 10 years ago, we had many of the same comments for the first couple of weeks until everything settled in.


Last week was probably very diffulct to be open for your 3rd week in business. Hopefully things shape up :D

ski_resort_observer
01-02-2007, 02:33 PM
I worked/helped at the Gatehouse Season Pass/Ticket counter all morning on the 31st. I normally work in a nice quiet office away from the base.

I was totally blown away by the crowds. The staff where I was had at times, big lines, and most guests were pretty pleasant and understanding. The problem for us was that people came for alot of sticky problems, bad timing and non SP/ticket things. If you come on such a busy day you have to realize that it might take alittle longer than on a more normal day, crowdwise.

In additon to all this the phone was ringing constantly and not once did they let it go to voice mail. They answered every call and cheerfully took care of whatever issue the caller had. They took ownership of every problen a guest had when they could have easily said you need to go to ....

One guy said he found these ski poles and before I could direct him to the side door so I could get them safely he basically threw them across the counter and scurried away. The staff IMHO performed admirably. Several times I checked the line and nobody had to wait more than 10 minutes at the longest.

When a co-worker came to replace me I left knowing that everyone did a great job and that it was such a beautiful day for guests to be at the Bush.

sugarboarder
01-02-2007, 03:48 PM
As for Chef Carosi:
I won't even get into my experience at Timbers except that food was VERY slow coming out of the kitchen on a quiet night and our server, and I now assume all of them, need to be trained in tableside wine service.
When I heard Chef Carosi talk of "putting the Pitcher Inn to shame" I was dissapointed. When I heard that he went to Chez Henri and introduced himself as the guy that will put them out of buisiness I was disgusted.
Maybe Mr. Carosi should have dinner at the Pitcher Inn or Chez Henri or one of the other fine establishments we have in the valley to see what excellent food and service is all about before he starts talking trash.

Great, a trash talking chef. Henri is an icon here - Carosi is nobody. Think I'll stop at Henri's for a drink and snack tomorrow.

win
01-02-2007, 06:24 PM
Clarifications:

The 4x turn was one lunch not dinner. Dinners we have been doing between 100 and 150.

Tin's comment I do not understand and am going to look into further. When I was there there was more than one, so he might have hit a time when the others were pulled elsewhere. If it was one, Tin is correct. Unfortunately, people do call in sick sometimes on the worst days, but I do not think this was the case on the 31st.

I do not believe what is attributed to our chef, but if it is true it will be corrected. He is an excellent chef and has worked around the clock to get all 3 food operations up and running in an incredibly short period of time. Great chefs like great artists have passion and that may be misunderstood at times by some.

Yes, with all new staff training is ongoing. Remember, Timbers was turned over from the contractor to the staff the night before it opened.

The floor is an issue we are aware of and will be addressed. We probably need a temporary fix this winter and then a different floor when we can close for a few days in the Spring.

Thanks for the comments. I have received many great reviews as well and all the issues raised are correctible and will be.

Tin Woodsman
01-02-2007, 07:06 PM
Tin's comment I do not understand and am going to look into further. When I was there there was more than one, so he might have hit a time when the others were pulled elsewhere. If it was one, Tin is correct. Unfortunately, people do call in sick sometimes on the worst days, but I do not think this was the case on the 31st.

This was as reported by my wife - blame her!!! I kiiid, I kiiid. As I passed those stations on the way to grab a truely delicious burger, I saw two guys behind there, and a very long line waiting to get served. I imagine some of the pissue was signage, but the salads and sammies will inevitably take more time per customer. I hope the staffing plan takes that into account.

BTW, has anyone been to Allyn's Lodge yet this season. Win had committed to improving the foodservice options there for this winter and I'm wondering what changes have transpired. Thankfully, we appear to have seen the last of Mr. and Mrs. Surlysausage.

ahm
01-03-2007, 08:58 AM
A couple thoughts here. Hard starts are the fault of poor planning. Period. It happens all the time in real industry (big industry Win like at Merck, Pfizer, P&G, Dupont). People who are good at start ups have the ability to plan well and complete the project on time with some walk thrus prior to turning the crank. The tough start was obvious before it ever opened the door. It was in the planning details. Period. As a veteran of numerous major facility start-ups (200 million plus) this was obvious from 20,000 ft. Staffing problems were no surprise as there wasn't a lot of walk throughs or water runs as they are often called. The food service overall at SB needs a philosophical improvement and it starts with the management placing value on the employees through solid training programs and getting them on board early. When the "team" dons the uniform at kick off, you can expect some troubles. Now, to the Pitcher Inn. Before everyone goes nuts on the place, be aware that it is not an end all. Not even close. It doesn't hold a candle to standard restaurants in major cities such as Philadelphia, NYC, Boston. Again service is an issue and often slow, sure appearance is on the high side, but overall this is not a Zagat top 10, a Susanna Foo, etc.

skiladi
01-03-2007, 09:12 AM
A couple thoughts here. Hard starts are the fault of poor planning. Period. It happens all the time in real industry (big industry Win like at Merck, Pfizer, P&G, Dupont). People who are good at start ups have the ability to plan well and complete the project on time with some walk thrus prior to turning the crank. The tough start was obvious before it ever opened the door. It was in the planning details. Period. As a veteran of numerous major facility start-ups (200 million plus) this was obvious from 20,000 ft. Staffing problems were no surprise as there wasn't a lot of walk throughs or water runs as they are often called. The food service overall at SB needs a philosophical improvement and it starts with the management placing value on the employees through solid training programs and getting them on board early. When the "team" dons the uniform at kick off, you can expect some troubles. Now, to the Pitcher Inn. Before everyone goes nuts on the place, be aware that it is not an end all. Not even close. It doesn't hold a candle to standard restaurants in major cities such as Philadelphia, NYC, Boston. Again service is an issue and often slow, sure appearance is on the high side, but overall this is not a Zagat top 10, a Susanna Foo, etc.

La Habichuela..I seem to have Mexico on the brain this a.m.... you ever been? Best place I ever dined. Not much of a world traveler but I have been to a few really nice spots. A, will I see you at 'da bush this season?

Fourwide
01-03-2007, 09:49 AM
We hadn't been up to our condo since last March. Drove up the access road on Tues. (usually drive up West Hill) to check out the new complex. WOW! I'd paid attention to the photos shared on this page, but you need to see it to fully appreciate it. We stopped by Timbers for a drink on Sat. late afternoon--walked down the hill from Snow Creek (now that's convenient!). It was a bit disorganized behind the bar. We overheard some talk of service problems. However, this will certainly all be fixed up soon. I must say that the sight of new Gatehouse/Claybrook/Timbers is beyond inspiring. We met up with two couples, friends of ours but not owners, infrequent Sugarbush visitors in the past. They were both making plans to come back up soon. Always major-league skiing, the new GH/CB surely propels SB to the high end of the total NE ski resort experience. I know we all share this view, but I'm totally thrilled, even proud, of this accomplishment!

freeheel_skier
01-03-2007, 09:59 AM
La Habichuela..I seem to have Mexico on the brain this a.m.... you ever been? Best place I ever dined. Not much of a world traveler but I have been to a few really nice spots. A, will I see you at 'da bush this season?

Didn't James Taylor sing a song about what happens down there??? :shock: What was the name of that song? :? Ohhh yeh....Mexico :lol:

Fourwide
01-03-2007, 10:06 AM
"Now, to the Pitcher Inn. Before everyone goes nuts on the place, be aware that it is not an end all. Not even close. It doesn't hold a candle to standard restaurants in major cities such as Philadelphia, NYC, Boston. Again service is an issue and often slow, sure appearance is on the high side, but overall this is not a Zagat top 10, a Susanna Foo, etc."

Fair point. However, you can't fairly expect big city service in Warren, Vt. I consciously lower my expectations by at least 10% whenever outside a major city (however, I do try not to reduce the tip!). Lots of our friends don't, and they're constantly bitching about poor service, whether at Pinehurst, Palm Beach, Warren, whereever.

smootharc
01-03-2007, 10:44 AM
....a chance to show what they are capable of....especially as the closed and shuttered places in the valley haven't exactly been replaced with new, thriving establishments (indicating perhaps a very difficult business environment). It sounds as if SV is both listening and aware of issues....and if past evidence indicates potential future results....things should move in a positive direction.

With regard to Big City / Susanna Foo places (and her joint is definitely one of the great eateries on a planetary level).....I may be odd but I don't really seek them out - due to feeling that for every great high end eatery delivering stellar food and service and value, there are twenty more that are over priced, pretentious, under-delivering joints where the type of people I don't really jibe with go to blow hot air up eachother's skirts and jackets. Just a personal observation, and YMMV. (I think my taste buds are middle brow. I can remember fondly the joy of crunching across peanut shells everybody tossed on the floor at that place who's name I can't remember that had those awful/wonderful fakey char burgers - ah, the good old days when burgers/fries and shakes didn't mean insta-love handles).

You look long enough and hard enough at anything, even the Mona Lisa, and you're going to find something to complain about. There's a fine line between constructive observations and nit-picky jabs. And one person's Mona Lisa is another's Velvet Elvis....we ain't all gonna find beauty in the same thing.....or eatery. Perhaps this is why I feel the individual and unique eatery offerings within the valley make the cuisine, overall, darn impressive for such a small place. Toss in a committment to using local foods and supporting the local environmental and people....and I think the valley chomping trough is pretty special. I don't hear much about comittments like that in most other places I put food in my tummy.....at home or when travelling.

Note: I'm not making this post with regard to any specific observations/complaints/kudos in this thread. Just thinking out loud about food service industry start ups.....which have something like an 80% failure rate....and that there are unique challenges presented in a seasonal/resort setting with regard to every aspect of putting plates in front of paying customers. I sense the vision/intent and the "in seat experience" of the new places at LP base will merge before too long. I'm sure we can all root for that. Now about that 4-star rib joint in Allyn's......

Abe Froman
01-03-2007, 12:23 PM
Had the worst service in my life. The place was run worse that a Applebee's! I did have dinner reservations and I did confirm that 5 were coming. I waited at the bar for 10min while our table was being set....if I were @ Applebee's I would have been served a beer quicker! If I could even order a beer or get bartender to make eye contact (I don't look like my avitar). We were seated and waited 25min. for a drink order. At least we had the menu's to keep us busy. I guess I went in with high expctations? This is a resort right? :? We ordered a bottle of wine which was uncorked thru the foil :shock: Oops...Then the waiter broke the cork off in the bottle, but managed to get it out safely. We ordered our food, which took another 25-30 min to see our soup. The soup was luke warm at best. Orderd some more wine for the table and same uncorking routine. :x Finally our main courses arrive :D After more than 1.5. :cry: The food was cold. I was in a party of 5 and all of the entree's were cold. :x At this point there was no sense sending back b/c we were starved. When the waiter came over to see how things were we said "ok, but the food is cold". No sense in getting mad at the waitstaff if it is the kitchen's fault? She offered to buy us desert, which I thought was a nice gesture. Our table declined because none of us wanted a sugar rush after midnight :P For what was charged as "upscale" and what the end product was....I feel like it was a "shake down" as they say on the Soprano's :shock: Sorry to be sarcastic and blunt but that is how I feel about my dining expierence.
On another note: My folkes went over for drinks the following day and sat @ the bar for 15min without a bartender making any eye contact. They asked the couple sitting next to them if they have been served yet. They replied NO. They were there 5-10 min longer than my folkes. This needs to be straightened out. I hope SV gets this problem resolved.

If there was some sort of F&B general manager to oversee operations in the infancy, problems/complaints like these could be less or avoided all together. I will give it one more shot for dinner @ the bar in a month or so. Hopefully things will improve.



P.S. The place wasn't even full. Maybe 45-50 people seated in the dining room.

007
01-03-2007, 12:51 PM
........they go together.
Often times the "training" or "practice" portion is overlooked or simply not frequent enough to reap the reward of it's value to improve the "Service" which doesn't just naturally come from hiring talent and must be orchestrated.
Suggestions from the guests should always be considered welcome ideas that hopefully foster positive change for the experience as well as the prosperity of the resort and the people that work there.

A couple of suggestions for Timbers would be:
Training the Bartenders and Waitstaff during non-peak times with "mock" scenes of larger groups of guests so they are a bit more impressive when the real life scenario takes place.
Three talkative bartenders between 3:00 and 6:00 (they'll be busy) who remain behind the bar and not disappear.
Food service by "waitstaff" at the bar and lounge area, without over-burdening the bartender.
Waitstaff for the lounge area from 12:00 - 6:00
Relocate the lounge area (very comfortable) leather chairs away from the bar about 10 feet.
Absolutely NO Broadcast Television, and only ski related video, weather, and resort photos, video, news and events.
A jazz piano and or guitarist from 4:00- 5:00 placed out in the center of the lounge.

And a few suggestions for CR Pub would be
NO congregating Children at the tables (It's a PUB? Right.......).
Replace the low tables with only the cafe hieght tables allowing patrons to "lean" when no seats are available, intead of trying to squat next to their friends.
Open the deli as self serve for food and relieve the bartendenders and waitstaff from the chore of taking and delivering food orders.

I know, it's easy to solve the problem looking in from the outside, and I'm sure there are "hidden" issues not being considered here, although some of these suggestions are fairly easy to implement, would inhance the guest experience, certainly increase the revenue, and hopefully improve the bottom line.

Otherwise these new facilties are an awesome and long awaited positive change here at the LP base area, and it's only a matter of time (once they catch their collective breath) before Win and team get the "obvious" small wrinkles ironed out.

Anyone have any others?

Plowboy
01-03-2007, 01:03 PM
Think a big part of the problem is finding qualified people to do these jobs. AHYUP :shock:

smootharc
01-03-2007, 01:24 PM
Think a big part of the problem is finding qualified people to do these jobs. AHYUP :shock:

....because this morning I was looking in the mirror hoping to find a qualified person to be me. No luck ! I'll try again tomorrow.

freeheel_skier
01-03-2007, 01:30 PM
....because this morning I was looking in the mirror hoping to find a qualified person to be me. No luck ! I'll try again tomorrow.

Wow! :shock: I am glad you said that! Now I know I am not the only neurotic person who does this 1st thing in the am! :lol:

smootharc
01-03-2007, 01:35 PM
....because this morning I was looking in the mirror hoping to find a qualified person to be me. No luck ! I'll try again tomorrow.

Wow! :shock: I am glad you said that! Now I know I am not the only neurotic person who does this 1st thing in the am! :lol:

I've gotta draw a line, though, Richie, cause I don't kiss my sister, dude ! You need to set your backside on a psychiatrist's couch, pronto. Me, on the other hand, am completely pulled together....other than this little twitch I get now and then, and the conversations I have with my invisible friend Ivan.... :lol:

freeheel_skier
01-03-2007, 01:48 PM
What the heck is wong with kissing your sister :shock: SHe is Gwyneth Paltrow! Geesshh! :lol:

arc1
01-03-2007, 01:55 PM
I hope they can make adjustments on the fly here. The Castlerock Pub is too small and the Timbers is too Sun Valley.

NO congregating Children at the tables (It's a PUB? Right.......).

Right, but.. what happens now if you want to sit down with the kids after skiing and have a beer for the big folks and wings for the kids? We went to Timbers because CR Pub was jam packed and loud. All the apres seating was taken (there's not nearly enough for such a big space, what a huge waste). So we sit at some of the tables with the white tablecloths in the main area, get a beer, sit down for awhile. order a bunch of apps and then the manager tells us we have to leave, before our order comes, because the tables are reserved for dinner. It was 4:40 in the afternoon. We leave and go wedge into the CR Pub, and on the way out, about an hour or so later, look in on Timbers and all the tables are empty.

So, what happens next? It'll be interesting to see if management responds to the market (The Mad River Valley is not Sun Valley).

Net net? We need the mushroom back.

CapeSkiGuy
01-03-2007, 04:20 PM
I hope they can make adjustments on the fly here. The Castlerock Pub is too small and the Timbers is too Sun Valley.

NO congregating Children at the tables (It's a PUB? Right.......).

Right, but.. what happens now if you want to sit down with the kids after skiing and have a beer for the big folks and wings for the kids? We went to Timbers because CR Pub was jam packed and loud. All the apres seating was taken (there's not nearly enough for such a big space, what a huge waste). So we sit at some of the tables with the white tablecloths in the main area, get a beer, sit down for awhile. order a bunch of apps and then the manager tells us we have to leave, before our order comes, because the tables are reserved for dinner. It was 4:40 in the afternoon. We leave and go wedge into the CR Pub, and on the way out, about an hour or so later, look in on Timbers and all the tables are empty.

So, what happens next? It'll be interesting to see if management responds to the market (The Mad River Valley is not Sun Valley).

Net net? We need the mushroom back.


Interesting point, and one that will probably cause a lot of disagreement. I personally think that the apres-ski pub/bar or whatever should be an adults-only environment. The upstairs at the gatehouse was jammed last weekend with very young kids. I think a major mountain needs to have a place where adults who do not have children with them can go and have a break, have a cocktail, and not have all the seating taken by kids. I saw kids taking up barstools in the CR pub last weekend also, which in my personal opinion shouldn't be happening. There could be a legality issue (there is in MA) and it isn't fair to the bartender, who is working for tips generated by adult bar customers. I know a lot of parents of very young kids are going to disagree with me, and say that they should be served wherever they see fit, but can there be a balance point? My kids are college age now, but I still believe that bars are adult environments. Maybe a "Nobody under 21 sits at the Bar" policy would be a reasonable compromise. I know that families need to be catered to by any resort looking to stay in business, and yes there are lots of other places I can go off-mountain, where I won't have somebody's kid shrieking next to me while I enjoy a pint. That said, however...I believe a pub is a pub, and a family restaurant is a family restaurant. Is the Castlerock trying to be both? The upstairs is the family area, in my opinion.

Disclaimer: The foregoing is a personal opinion based upon experience and preference, and not intended as an on-high pronouncement of absolute fact.

kcyanks1
01-03-2007, 04:32 PM
Just another personal opinion, and I haven't been to the new lodge yet, but I think kids should be allowed in the pub (I'm 25 and have no kids). I agree with one of the above posters that it would be too difficult for families who want some apres-skiing snacks (with or without parents who want drinks) to have a no kids rule in a pub located within a ski lodge. I think a rule saying adults only on the bar stools works, but a complete ban doesn't make sense to me. If it were open at night-time hours I might have a different view, but for apres-skiing hours, I don't like the idea of making it adults only.

Edited to add: Maybe if I see the entire set-up of the pub and new lodge I'd have a different opinion. I'm only going on what I can gather from reading posts.

freeheel_skier
01-03-2007, 05:45 PM
[quote="CapeSkiGuy

That said, however...I believe a pub is a pub, and a family restaurant is a family restaurant. Is the Castlerock trying to be both? The upstairs is the family area, in my opinion.

Disclaimer: The foregoing is a personal opinion based upon experience and preference, and not intended as an on-high pronouncement of absolute fact.[/quote]

I like your disclaimer. However, I grew up eating with my brothers & parents in pub's...local or while skiing somwhere else. We were on short leashes....very short. I think you are right on some accounts. However, if the parents are enjoying a pint and the kids are running around throwing cue balls, etc. that is unacceptable! :x This is a touchy grey area. If the family is spending $$$ they are paying customers. I will add that some people shouldn't let their kids run the show. I've seen this happen on many occasions. How about a 21+ no acceptions so there is no grey area....if you don't like it go somewhere else. :D Like the timbers.

skigal
01-03-2007, 06:02 PM
Don't want to beat a dead horse but would like to comment on some experienes not yet discussed.

Timbers: Had lunch there on a slow day. It was raining and husband and daughter were first ones there, around 11:30. I arrived about half an hour later. They were eating their meals and I was promptly waited on by the bartender. My order took about 15 or 20 minutes. A little slow, but bartender was aware and followed up with the kitchen. Food was good. Husband's burger was excellent. Daughter wasn't crazy about her sandwich...no kids menu. Since she didn't each much of it she asked for a small salad. Bartender, nicely told us that they were unable to stray from the menu and only meal sized salads were available. I think she was a little embarassed she couldn't be more accomodating. I don't know if it was a ktichen thing, a managment thing, or due to the coding of the cash registers, but more flexibility is needed in regards to special orders.

Castlerock Pub: Had a mix of experiences. Arrived at 11:30 early in the week and had lunch 15 minutes later. Arrived at 12:20 another day (still mid-week) and sandwich took an hour to arrive.
Waitress said it was because we had ordered a hot sandwich and the kitchen had only one machine for making them. Not surprising there were dozens of orders for hot sandwiches. Have not tried the soups there yet but the absence of chili was apparent. I did see ktichen staff bringing down some chowder later in the week. Don't know if it was a special or they added it to the menu. Chili and chowder were staples and huge sellers in the Wonderbar...I miss it.

Resorted to bringing my own lunch by the end of the week. Couldn't get a seat upstairs until about 1:30...I'll be sure to pack PowerBars from now on and will check out Valley House. Friend of mine did eat up there Sunday and reported that it was not very inviting. Apparently being used as a storage area for the old Mushrooom tables. This should be an easy fix but most of the people I know who brown bag it still like to buy soup, fries, or something else to supplement.

Just my observations.

mikec13
01-03-2007, 06:21 PM
I checked out both spots this past weekend and I want to focus my comments on the service side of things...my personal experience confirms that the service was slow but pleasant. I am very confident that the service will improve with a little bit more time and training. I was very impressed with the general attitude of all of the employees at the mountain this past week. EVERYONE -Ski school, ambassadors, ticket sales etc went out of their way to be pleasant and helpful. In the past I thought the service was good but I really noticed an improvement this year. The general feeling given by the employees was we can't do much about the conditions but we will do everything else possible to make your experience pleasant! Assuming that this is a management directive, accepted by a willing and appreciated staff, I think it will filter in to Timbers and the Pub!

As to the general vibe of the new facilities I think that too will improve with time. The Castlerock Pub is similar to the old one but not the same. It will take a little bit of time to determine who is going to use it and what they want i.e kids at the bar ( I have three and I do not want my kids or anyone elses sitting next to me at a bar!). Timbers is completely new and as such will take longer to "find its place". I agree it is a bit more Sun Valley than Mad River Valley but in time it will develop its own personality and style. It will be tough to be apres ski until 4:30 and then switch to fine dining by 5 but I think overtime it will be sorted out.

Overall the place looked great, the employees were fantastic and we got great feedback from the newcomers we brought to the 'Bush!

sugarboarder
01-04-2007, 12:06 AM
I do not believe what is attributed to our chef, but if it is true it will be corrected. He is an excellent chef and has worked around the clock to get all 3 food operations up and running in an incredibly short period of time. Great chefs like great artists have passion and that may be misunderstood at times by some.

I hope it is not true - but if it is, I don't care who or what he is, it's not "passion" it's outright rudeness. And if he's so great an artist, what is he dong here? :?

Henri is THE MAN!

walks
01-04-2007, 11:13 AM
I say if you want the real MRV go to North. The Atmosphere is better there.

ski_resort_observer
01-04-2007, 11:33 AM
I say if you want the real MRV go to North. The Atmosphere is better there.

Personally speaking I couldn't agree more. Sitting on the outside upper deck with a beer/coffee and kids drinking some hot chocolate after skiing, doen't get any better than that.

I also agree that it's going to take awhile before this huge change is going to settle out. The Bush had to build a bigger Gatehouse and also needed a Claybrook to capture a bigger piece of a market they used to lead in(Mascara Mt days) but over the years basically lost it to places like Stratton and Stowe. I have not been inside Clay Brook, the Timbers or the Castlerock Pub, probably never will, but am thrilled and grateful that SV took on this Herculean project and succeeded beyond all expectations.

freeheel_skier
01-04-2007, 12:17 PM
My father was over @ L.P. last week to check out the new buildings and make some turns. When he came back to ME to have a beer w/me at the end of the day, the first thing he said was: "I feel like I was visiting another panet and I am now back on earth :lol: He also added that change is good. 8)

Tin Woodsman
01-04-2007, 12:22 PM
My father was over @ L.P. last week to check out the new buildings and make some turns. When he came back to ME to have a beer w/me at the end of the day, the first thing he said was: "I feel like I was visiting another panet and I am now back on earth :lol: He also added that change is good. 8)

There is definitely something to that. The vibe is now permanently altered at South with the new facilities. There is now a large disparity in the feel of the respective base areas. I actually might find myself starting more at North these days.

walks
01-04-2007, 06:24 PM
I really enjoy dropping my kids off in the morning at south and seeing the buildings there. They did a great job. But enjoying it from the outside is about it. I try and stay out of the lodge. It is very nice inside but I can't get past the crowds and the different feel. I have to say that I hardly went into the old one either. I understand last weekend was a holiday and the crowds will not be that bad until the next holiday. I just miss the old area. I will have to wait till the Slidebrook opens so I can get over to North to go back in time. Wife wanted to eat lunch at timbers one day and tried to drag me in. forget it. Couldn't even get past the people standing in line with there rear entry boots half open at the entrance. Turned out great for me. Went back to the condo for lunch.

On another note. Special thanks to the guys at SureFoot for saving my day. Listened to wife complain about feet killing her on several runs till she went and got custom boots from these guys. $800 later got one run in with her. Best run of the week. Heard a few other people raving about how good there boots felt after going in there. These guys know there stuff.

ski_resort_observer
01-04-2007, 06:48 PM
My father was over @ L.P. last week to check out the new buildings and make some turns. When he came back to ME to have a beer w/me at the end of the day, the first thing he said was: "I feel like I was visiting another panet and I am now back on earth :lol: He also added that change is good. 8)

There is definitely something to that. The vibe is now permanently altered at South with the new facilities. There is now a large disparity in the feel of the respective base areas. I actually might find myself starting more at North these days.

Vibe is such a personal preference kinda thing. IMHO I think the vibe at LP has actually been greatly improved, mainly by the new Gatehouse Lodge. That's what I hear from guests most often.

There was always a big diference between LP and ME, whether you look at it from the days ME was Glen Ellen or now with the new LP base area. Hopefully that will never change.

ScoobySnack
01-04-2007, 08:49 PM
We had lunch at Timbers this past Saturday after skiing (these days, I'm toast by 1:00). Anyway, some observations, for what it's worth:

The good:
- Hostess and waiter were very pleasant and welcoming.
- The place had a great look to it, not to casual, not too chi-chi. Rocky Mountain-ish feel to it, which I like.
- Service was a little slow, but fine. As I said, the staff was pleasant, so it was no biggie.
- Food was very good, and prices were more reasonable than I expected (at least I think they were; my buddy picked up the tab).
- All in all, I thought it was terrific.

The bad:
- We only wound up at Timbers because Castlerock Pub was too crowded and loud. That place is tiny for a base lodge pub. Good thing Timbers can handle overflow.

The ugly:
- I wonder how many people in ski boots took a tumble on that floor at Timbers. Maybe some floor mats should be put down for the post-ski crowd.

Oh, one more thing - the skiing was great. Nice job by the Mountain Team getting trails open.

walks
01-04-2007, 09:02 PM
Yes, surefoot is the operation in the Claybrook at the corner. I had never heard of them but apparently they have a good hold on the boot and footbed market. At first I got them confused with Superfeet.

I actually went into Timbers a while ago to just look at the place and ran into the same problem as scoobysnack. Almost ended up on my backside. Twice.

Has anyone used the outside deck at Castlerock? With all the posts about the inside being crowded it seems like the place to be is outside under the heaters.

arc1
01-05-2007, 07:45 AM
I have not been inside Clay Brook, the Timbers or the Castlerock Pub, probably never will, but am thrilled and grateful that SV took on this Herculean project and succeeded beyond all expectations.[/quote][

What kind of observer are you if you pass judgement on this admitting you've never been inside? Amazing.

ski_resort_observer
01-05-2007, 08:10 AM
I have not been inside Clay Brook, the Timbers or the Castlerock Pub, probably never will, but am thrilled and grateful that SV took on this Herculean project and succeeded beyond all expectations.[

What kind of observer are you if you pass judgement on this admitting you've never been inside? Amazing.[/quote]

You mean that I can't have an opinion on the positives of just having a new Gatehouse Lodge and a new hotel. Unreal. Judge me if you want but I have no problem being thrilled with the new developement. People in the valley are also happy about it and some have not even been up to the base, that's ok in my book, too.

Actually I am sure I will get inside Clay Brook at some point and maybe the Castlerock Pub so, yea , ya got me. :roll:

Tin Woodsman
01-05-2007, 08:54 AM
Note: This discussion somewhat branched off into into an interesting back and forth on bootfitters in the Valley. I've split those posts into a separate topic and placed it in the MRV general forum.

skiladi
01-05-2007, 09:37 AM
I don't usually eat lunch at South ( maybe once or twice,but have lunch at North whenever I'm there unless we picnic in the trees ; } ). But I have stopped in for a beer in the old CR. I liked it better. It is tough to change after years of habit. My only experience was NYE and the Gatehouse party. Unless they had a "special" permit for the evening for alcohol service upstairs why can't a beer be purchased and brought upstairs so ma and pa can hang with the kiddies? Response from mgmt. , please?
Or sell beer from a cooler at the caf like they do at many areas?

Tin Woodsman
01-05-2007, 09:51 AM
Vibe is such a personal preference kinda thing. IMHO I think the vibe at LP has actually been greatly improved, mainly by the new Gatehouse Lodge. That's what I hear from guests most often.

There was always a big diference between LP and ME, whether you look at it from the days ME was Glen Ellen or now with the new LP base area. Hopefully that will never change.

Yes, vibe is a personal thing, but I think that's a cop out. There have certainly always been differences in the feel of the respective base areas. LP has always buzzed with activity whereas ME has been a little more sedate and old school. But the sense of place was always similar, IMO. You had the smallish, crowded lodge at LP with the warm fire int he CR pub and a down-homey feeling at the end of the day in there, the Mushroom, and the Wunderbar. That is clearly not the case anymore. Change is inevitable, I'm just pointing out that there is now a drastically wide disparity in the feel at each respective base area now. Maybe LP needs time to grow into itself, but I view the apres scene there as a bit antiseptic and sterile.

Lostone
01-05-2007, 10:29 AM
I seldom drink, so it matters little to me, either way, but I'd like to point out that, in bars, as well as internet forums, ( :wink: ) the people make the scene. 8)

freeheel_skier
01-05-2007, 10:41 AM
Vibe is such a personal preference kinda thing. IMHO I think the vibe at LP has actually been greatly improved, mainly by the new Gatehouse Lodge. That's what I hear from guests most often.

There was always a big diference between LP and ME, whether you look at it from the days ME was Glen Ellen or now with the new LP base area. Hopefully that will never change.

Yes, vibe is a personal thing, but I think that's a cop out. There have certainly always been differences in the feel of the respective base areas. LP has always buzzed with activity whereas ME has been a little more sedate and old school. But the sense of place was always similar, IMO. You had the smallish, crowded lodge at LP with the warm fire int he CR pub and a down-homey feeling at the end of the day in there, the Mushroom, and the Wunderbar. That is clearly not the case anymore. Change is inevitable, I'm just pointing out that there is now a drastically wide disparity in the feel at each respective base area now. Maybe LP needs time to grow into itself, but I view the apres scene there as a bit antiseptic and sterile.

I definitley agree with you TW. When the bars were spread out...so were the crowds. I liked having a third option. I also enjoyed the short bar skid on my skis from the Mushroom to CR. Now it seems that the apres focus contained to one area. Less walking I guess. If you want more options there is always Henri's 8)
I am trying to keep an open mind to all the new things going on @ LP base. I don't spend too much time over there. I think if I did the new base area would have grown on me by now.

Plowboy
01-05-2007, 10:52 AM
I don't usually eat lunch at South ( maybe once or twice,but have lunch at North whenever I'm there unless we picnic in the trees ; } ). But I have stopped in for a beer in the old CR. I liked it better. It is tough to change after years of habit. My only experience was NYE and the Gatehouse party. Unless they had a "special" permit for the evening for alcohol service upstairs why can't a beer be purchased and brought upstairs so ma and pa can hang with the kiddies? Response from mgmt. , please?
Or sell beer from a cooler at the caf like they do at many areas?

Years past I could go right over to the CR pub grab a beer and have lunch with my kids at the caf. tables. IMO the new location sucks. Most mountains I've been to sell beer or box wine in the caf.

ski_resort_observer
01-05-2007, 11:05 AM
For me I used to hate walking in loose snow from building to building so having the plaza is really nice plus I keep thinking that come this spring which, unfortunately, might be tomorrow, the dirt parking lot would be a mess to park and walk on so the paved parking lot is sweet in my book.

freeheel_skier
01-05-2007, 11:16 AM
the paved parking lot is sweet in my book.


The paved lot is sweet. You can boot up @ the car and be clean! No mucking up the car or your boots when the weather is.........like today, UNSEASONABLE!

Is the plaza b/t Clay Brook and Gate House heated? Or do they shovel and salt?

skigal
01-05-2007, 11:55 AM
Not sure if it's heated but it sure can be slippery with a thin coat of snow. I've seen lots of close calls, my own included. But then, I was slipping on the ice in front of the old Gate House. I think I need studded boots.

smootharc
01-05-2007, 12:48 PM
I think I need studded boots.

....I could run with this quote...just ruuuuunnnnn with it.....but I hereby desist. :wink:

P.S. I'm going to show my wife my reply.....it will be her proudest moment thinking I've finally turned the corner toward becoming a 17 year old stuck in a 44 year old body.....instead of a 12 year old.

win
01-06-2007, 08:54 AM
Vermont liquor laws require a secured envirnoment for serving liquor. That is why one can not take drinks outside of the Pub area. We can extend to the broader Gate House for special funtions like New Year's eve but it requires a special permit. Vt. is a tough State and the inspector pulls surpise visits all the time. Both the floor is Gate House cafeteria and Timbers will need to be replaced, so we have short term fixes until we close in the Spring. Floors were not what we thought we ordered. In the Old Castlerock Pub all liquor was supposed to be consumed within the contained area and not in the broader Lodge.

Plowboy
01-06-2007, 09:05 AM
8) Thanks for the update Win.

walks
01-06-2007, 01:13 PM
Can you bring a drink outside on the patio? Haven't really looked to see if anyone has.

random_ski_guy
01-06-2007, 01:39 PM
Boy, VT and in my experience Maine too, are tough on all forms of public alcohol consumption (bar, store, etc). Its not just the laws, its the zealous enforcement too. Its too bad that you can't widen the area of consumption to the upstairs.

What about the patio around CR pub, will you be able to serve there?

sugarboarder
01-06-2007, 01:43 PM
One word - FLASK.

Don't leave home without it. I don't drink at the hill until I'm done for the day but BYOF is one way around all the VT law stuff. Of course I fill it with Gatorade. :wink:

random_ski_guy
01-06-2007, 01:55 PM
One word - FLASK.

Don't leave home without it. I don't drink at the hill until I'm done for the day but BYOF is one way around all the VT law stuff. Of course I fill it with Gatorade. :wink:

lol :lol:

win
01-07-2007, 02:04 PM
Yes, The patio is approved.