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notorious
09-10-2006, 07:36 PM
The ski and ride school has several new programs, daily and seasonal, kids and adults. For seasonal adult programs, the Valley Vista Social Club, and the Bush Pilots are noteworthy. The Bush Pilots program in particular promoses to provide the most complete tutoring in the secrets of Valley style skiing, Sugarbush and beyond, and marks a revolutionary step in Eastern ski school programs. Great to see the VT North Pro Team officially involved with the MT. Great name, too!!

Small gripe. Can't click onto the sign up for this program from the SB websit. (N.B. Win.)

Speaking of Win, his op ed opinion piece in this weeks Valley Reporter is extraordinary. ( A fervent reminder to the valley towns and State of VT not to relentlessly hammer nonresidents and local businesses.) (Anyone listening/ Unfortunatly, I doubt it) Win's willingness to engage with the community, online, in print, and in person (see comments at MRVCofC now showing on cable access) deserves attention. Having real people, with a personal stake in the mountain and community, as owners, is just one of the many remarkable things about Sugarbush. (i.e. AIG/Stowe, Intrawest, G Gillet (sp), ASC etc.) Thank you Win, Adam, and Bob for delivering us from the clutches of ASC. What is going on at Sugarbush deserves more coverage by the national ski press.

Last comment for now. I visited the real estate development at Stow this weekend. They have a long way to go, so Sugarbush has a clear window of opportunity by being on schedule with Claybrook and Gatehouse for this season.

Tin Woodsman
09-10-2006, 11:36 PM
Heck of a first post. Welcome, notorious.

The Bush Pilots program sounds interesting, though I'd like to hear more details. Will this consist of backcountry touring, or will it be primarily lift-accessed? If that latter, while cool, I wonder what the impact will be on many of the stashes that define the "secrets of Valley style sking".

Treeskier
09-11-2006, 11:11 AM
The Bush Piolet program sounds interesting but early access to powder. As a passholder one of the reasons to have one is so you can wait in line and be the first lift accessed skiing after ski patrol clears the lifts/trails. To give certian groups early access is not fair. Plus if they let them hike up early but all other are told they must wait is also unfair. Everything else in the program sound good. Learning from Johm Egan this summer was a great experiance.

Lostone
09-11-2006, 11:53 AM
I've looked for info on this on the site, with no luck. :roll:

Anyone care to post a link? :?

If there is an "early powder" benefit, that would be poor for the rest of the patrons. I'll believe that when I see it, but that would be a poor step. :?

Bubba
09-11-2006, 12:13 PM
http://www.sugarbush.com/seasonal.aspx

Scroll, scroll, scroll.

"Powder day lift cutting privleges"
Same as any other ski school program. You cut the lift line on non-powder days, too.

notorious
09-11-2006, 03:43 PM
The Bush Piolet program sounds interesting but early access to powder. As a passholder one of the reasons to have one is so you can wait in line and be the first lift accessed skiing after ski patrol clears the lifts/trails. To give certian groups early access is not fair. Plus if they let them hike up early but all other are told they must wait is also unfair. Everything else in the program sound good. Learning from Johm Egan this summer was a great experiance.

It's always difficult to beat Treeskier to first tracks, but a man needs something to aspire to. I hear there is a lot of terrain at Sugarbush. No need for rivalry.

Lostone
09-11-2006, 05:38 PM
Thanx Dave. That time I found it. :oops:

You weren't kidding when you said scroll, scroll scroll! :roll: notorious, how did you find it? :wink:

It says they meet at 9:45. If we can't get the trail powder by then, we don't deserve it! :P


And as for cutting lines with lessons, yes, it has been done for years. I have no problem withthat as long as they don't just let the lessons go. There are enough different lessons that nobody else would be able to ski. But they usually work them in well, letting a couple sets fromthe lessons and a couple sets from the regular lines. 8)

Besides, from the reading of it, it seems they're leading them to do more away from the lifts skiing? :wink:

Lostone
09-12-2006, 10:31 AM
We had two subjects in the same thread, each worthwhile on its own.

I'm leaving this one for the ski and ride programs and have moved the tax commentary posts to their own thread.

Tin Woodsman
09-12-2006, 10:32 AM
We had two subjects in the same thread, each worthwhile on its own.

I'm leaving this one for the ski and ride programs and have moved the tax commentary posts to their own thread.

Great minds think alike....

I was about to do the same. I took the further step of moving the thread to the MRV General forum since it's not SB specific.

Lostone
09-12-2006, 10:37 AM
That caught me by surprise! I was thinking it might have been better in the valley board, but wanted to split it before it got too large.

Then I went into it (in the Sugarbush forum and looked up and foud it to be in the Valley forum. :shock:

Couldn't figure out how I'd done that! :lol:

ahm
09-14-2006, 01:39 PM
[quote="notorious"]The ski and ride school has several new programs, daily and seasonal, kids and adults. For seasonal adult programs, the Valley Vista Social Club, and the Bush Pilots are noteworthy. The Bush Pilots program in particular promoses to provide the most complete tutoring in the secrets of Valley style skiing, Sugarbush and beyond, and marks a revolutionary step in Eastern ski school programs. Great to see the VT North Pro Team officially involved with the MT. Great name, too!!

Time will tell just how much of a revolutionary step in Eastern ski school programs this is and just how much non lift served skiing it involves. The approach is an excellent idea. Bringing it to "be" is entirely different. In terms of a "earn your turns approach" SB will need to invest in a nice selection of touring gear and right now, I think that is a ways away. They have had some pseduo clinics/overnights in the past (and appropriate gear and knowledgable users were in short supply), but the bottom line is to introduce people to "touring' you need to have a cache of backcountry gear. SB/SV would go a long way by getting about 10 - 20 sets of touring gear with Fritschi freerides and skins, and adjustable poles. If you are gonna talk backcountry, then you need to provide the gear so people can check it out. It wasn't until 2005 that there was a fritschi jig in the valley (can ya mount em yourself ? yep, but it would help if the shops bought into it). SB has access to some of the best touring type terrain in VT, and it should be developed accordingly and the concept of teaching backcountry technique and skills should truly be embraced by the area. With JE's contacts at Dynastar, it should be pretty easy to stock the demo rack with 8800's with freerides. With JA as a Coulior editor it should be easy to beef up the bush backcountry instructional and marketing programs......................and that would be the true way to debute the "secrets of the valley"

win
09-14-2006, 01:50 PM
Thanks for the comments, Notorious. I checked the online store, and it is working. If you have problems, you can call 800-53-SUGAR during businesses hours and one of our reps can help you. Think snow!

john
09-14-2006, 03:07 PM
This program came out of requests we recieved for a very high end program that had a hard core group of instructors that could step outside the realm of most ski instruction . We needed coaches that had learned thier skills here but have proven them world wide ! We found them and I am very excited to have them on our team ! I don't know who started the rumor that this group would get early lifts but the times are set up so parents who have children in one of our other programs have time to drop off the child and still fit in some serious ripping of thier own ! Come join us ...if you think your up for it. John

Tin Woodsman
09-14-2006, 04:04 PM
This program came out of requests we recieved for a very high end program that had a hard core group of instructors that could step outside the realm of most ski instruction . We needed coaches that had learned thier skills here but have proven them world wide ! We found them and I am very excited to have them on our team ! I don't know who started the rumor that this group would get early lifts but the times are set up so parents who have children in one of our other programs have time to drop off the child and still fit in some serious ripping of thier own ! Come join us ...if you think your up for it. John
Nice. Welcome to the board, John.

notorious
09-14-2006, 07:56 PM
Win, thank you for noticing and commenting on this subject. The mere fact that you do so impresses the hell out of me. Every user and lurker on this board loves your mountain and this valley, and it is wonderfull to see the shared passion of the owners. As for the Bush Pilot website sign-up, I gave up and used the 800#, but I trust the website is running smoothly today.

It may be taken as shameless brownosing, but I feel the need to thank you for allowing John to start this program. There are many points of view on the question, but the true believers are convinced that the future of Sugarbush lies, at least partly, in the maximum exploitation of lift served backcountry skiing. For those who are into it, the ability to access the immense terrain opportunities and get a ride back to do it again,and again, is equivalent to skiing in Europe where such a practice is common. There is no equal in the East.

I love Jay as much as the next guy, but hitchiking is a lot different than shuttle pick-up. And let's be honest, Jay's on mountain terrain can't compare with Sugarbush. Besides, they lie about snowfall.

Many of us who care for the future of our mountain have wondered if and when the mountain would begin to appropriately focus on this undeniably superlative ski experience. This is the soul of skiing, fresh snow, quiet woods, sunlight in the beech groves, the pure adreniline rush of a launch off a drop into soft snow.

Like a lot of others I've been content to secretly gorge myself on this terrain, but the highest pleasures are best when shared.(Pick your pleasure here, people) There are those who want to hoard their "secrets", or allow only the "select" in on the mystery. Thankfully John, and you feel differently.

Given the regulatory restrictions and respecting the habitat issues, we can never, nor would we ever want to, "develop" the wild areas. But exposing qualified skiers to the magical terrain of Sugarbush and beyond will create the best kind of word-of-mouth publicity among the lead user ski community. No amount of marketing money can buy this type of respect for the mountain.

The business success of your mountain protects the continuation of our ski experience. In your willingness to authorize John to start the respectful focus on the "real" Sugarbush you have merged the business end of skiing with the root experience. What a simple concept. What a revolutionary idea.

Thank you.

smootharc
09-15-2006, 07:41 AM
In your willingness to authorize John to start the respectful focus on the "real" Sugarbush you have merged the business end of skiing with the root experience. What a simple concept. What a revolutionary idea.

....well put.

smootharc
09-15-2006, 07:43 AM
This program came out of requests we recieved for a very high end program that had a hard core group of instructors that could step outside the realm of most ski instruction . We needed coaches that had learned thier skills here but have proven them world wide ! We found them and I am very excited to have them on our team ! I don't know who started the rumor that this group would get early lifts but the times are set up so parents who have children in one of our other programs have time to drop off the child and still fit in some serious ripping of thier own ! Come join us ...if you think your up for it. John

Nice. Welcome to the board, John.

....that would be Sir John, methinks.... :lol:

madskier6
09-15-2006, 08:48 AM
This program looks great and I applaud the folks at SB for coming up with it (as others have already said). Has any thought been given to allowing people to join the group on a one-time basis for a daily fee without having to commit to the whole season? I would love to be able to join the group on certain Sundays when my schedule permits.

While I own property in the Valley, I will not be able to make it every Sunday. Since I have to provide financially for the ski experiences of my wife and 4 children, I cannot justify paying the entire seasonal rate when I might only be able to make one or two Sundays during the year. Hopefully, I would be able to make it more than once or twice but I can't predict at this point. Any thoughts on this approach?

Lostone
09-15-2006, 09:15 AM
Has any thought been given to allowing people to join the group on a one-time basis for a daily fee without having to commit to the whole season?

I woud think that to be a great idea. There would have to be some sort of ski off to ensure the person wanting to join would be able to do it, but that would be a great thing to offer on timers... who might become two and three and ...? timers. 8)

People might try it and decide this place is more than they'd thought. :wink:

smootharc
09-15-2006, 10:55 AM
This program looks great and I applaud the folks at SB for coming up with it (as others have already said). Has any thought been given to allowing people to join the group on a one-time basis for a daily fee without having to commit to the whole season? I would love to be able to join the group on certain Sundays when my schedule permits.

Perhaps a slightly higher "a la carte" rate, and based on availability of a "slot" ???

HowieT2
09-15-2006, 11:54 AM
I also would love to see an la carte option. Living in NY, I can't make it every weekend but would love to try this. I think my 10 year old would love it too since he seems to be obsessed with skiing Paradise woods and making his way to the church

mikec13
09-15-2006, 12:59 PM
I too would second (or is it third) the a la catre option!

boze
09-15-2006, 03:38 PM
Count me among those also extrememly interested in a daily option with the backcountry "Bush Pilots" program. Living in CT I have logistical limitations for weekly backcountry powder grabs!

I can understand the desire for some consistency in the group. Yet practically speaking, I could only commit to 4-6 Sundays during the season.

Maybe using Eden as a proving ground for those wishing to join a la carte, either on the previous Sat or earlier that Sunday AM? Would be covered by - & further justify - a higher daily fee. So while my 9 year old would be super jealous (another paradise woods fan), he'd have something to look forward to / dream about.

Tin Woodsman
09-15-2006, 04:24 PM
I think the ala carte idea is great, but it does have practical limitations insofar as people would need to be tested to see if they are up to the challenge, and that takes time and money. You can't dedicate an instructor to go with just one person for testing purposes, can you? Maybe you have a pre check-in an hour before the program starts whereby those who aren't "certified" yet can have time to go up with a guide and get assessed? What happens when aspiring applicants are judged as not being good enough? That should be a fun conversation.

And I'm not sure that Eden is the right proving grounds if this program is what it aspires to be. Maybe Lew's Line would be more apropos.

Mind you, along with ut about everything else I write/say, I'm just thinking out loud here.

boze
09-15-2006, 09:00 PM
Maybe Lew's Line would be more apropos.


Totally apprteciate where you coming from with respect to Lew's Line. Eden suggested mostly for expediency (would certainly help if the double would be a bit zippier one day; but hey I DO NOT mean to complain!).

Hopefully, Lew-flavored terrain would be the aim.

And that 'conversation' would need to be had with any falling short of the mark - a challenge independent of the timing of the qualification process.

Of course, there are likely to be sufficient numbers of you lucky ones who live closer to fill up the program without us weekend hacks...

smootharc
09-18-2006, 08:11 AM
I think the ala carte idea is great, but it does have practical limitations insofar as people would need to be tested to see if they are up to the challenge, and that takes time and money. You can't dedicate an instructor to go with just one person for testing purposes, can you? Maybe you have a pre check-in an hour before the program starts whereby those who aren't "certified" yet can have time to go up with a guide and get assessed? What happens when aspiring applicants are judged as not being good enough?

.....they will probably need at least two levels within any group.

1) The truly hardcore who can charge all day....really charge. Anything, anywhere, anytime, all the time.

2) And the people who can charge, but perhaps will tire more easily, then charge some more, but might have better proficiency on certain terrain, but less proficiency on other terrain/conditions. "Wanna Be" is not the term here. Probably a bunch of good skiers, perhaps more middle-ageish, but not in the peak fighting trim of their "prime". Their hearts will be totally in it....but their bodies will betray some minor kinks in the armor....hence limitations.

Just my .02, as seen through the crystal ball.

Edit: PS.....I'm a #2, I believe. Love handles protruding through my chinks..... :lol: