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Mtnlady
03-14-2006, 06:29 PM
We experienced warm winds and bluebird skies this worning - yet when I walked from my dark office at 1PM, white styrofoam balls were blowing around. Kind of a head-shaker :shock:

Mud season has been ferocious :? And we're all waiting for one more storm....

People here seem testy. Location of affordable housing on the Access Rd would sure seem a good thing for people who work in the valley -- especially the sizable number employed by SB.
That, by the way, is my own opinion, not that of SB.

I reminded someone to save the sign - I think that's a no brainer.

The Smokehouse has live music. The HydeAway is popular as a local hang-out. And traffic enforcement was a topic at one Town Meeting I read about.

All my postings here are for me, not SB. First snowdrop is up in the garden.

Tin Woodsman
03-14-2006, 06:39 PM
That is certainly a great location for those living there, but it does make me scratch my head to see affordable housing on the Access Rd. You are talking about some of the more valuable real estate in the MRV there. Why not down on the valley floor while leaving the land on the Access Rd. for higher value commercial and residential development. Would seem to make the most sense to me for all parties concerned.

ski_resort_observer
03-14-2006, 08:14 PM
For me, without knowing any of the details about the affordable housing, I found it impossible to make any judgements about the project. What I do know is that affordable housing is a good thing for several reasons and It would be great if it happened on the access road or down in the valley.

The best land for developement is at the bottom and above Alpine Options. In between the land on both sides of the road is very steep. The topagraphy is very favorable above the German Flats intersection. Except for the townhouse project on the corner of Golf Course Rd, hasn't been much action in the last 15 years.

On the gardening front, a few of my Iris's popped up during the thaw in January, starting to get excited about the upcoming gardening season.

castlerock
03-15-2006, 01:28 AM
Affordable housing belongs somewhere in the middle of the "community". Stuck in an "island" on the access road is not the place. It makes no sense. Somewhere near Warren or Waitsfield village, would be a better idea.

Schusseur
03-15-2006, 08:45 PM
Mtnlady - I don't know exactly what's lurking deep in my heart, but there's a distinct sadness about the losing the Blue Tooth and the situation overall at SB. Something is indeed wrong. There seems to be a structural problem about owning the resort. Owner after owner has not been able to find that right, profitable formula to make the place work. I don't question SV's desire to do right by the bush, but I just don't think their pockets are deep enough and their vision in touch enough with the clientele.

I'm just too frustrated by broken lifts, too little snow making, too few entertainment options, run-down restaurants, fear of speeding tickets and just an overall feeling the MRV is kinda dead. But I love the MRV and really do consider it home after all.

The valley just doesn't have what's needed to attract the twenty-somethings. My love of Sugarbush as a twenty-something is absolutely what led me to buy a place as a forty-something. I think that goes for Win too.

It pains me to say this may be my family's last season at the bush - not a done deal, but leaning that way. I'm actually an upbeat guy, so this dour tone is unusual for me. In the end, Killington is not ideal, but it may well solve my weekend skiing needs in the future. Sorry for coming across as such a downer, but this subject hits close to home for me as well as lots of other regulars.

If possible, I would like to own a little piece of the Blue Tooth and am willing to pay for it - like when the gondola shut down. Pure sentimental value for a fan going back to 1968, but hey, time to move on.

ski_resort_observer
03-15-2006, 09:32 PM
All resort areas are diferent and emphasize diferent aspects of the ski resort area experience. The MRV, with the Bush and MRG is all about the skiing. While not having the nightlife and restaurant options of a Stowe or a Killington, it is there. I love the valley and bought a home there due to the lack of traffic, chain restaurants and motels. The slow pace of life that for me is more indictative of the Vermont I grew up with, than Stowe or Killington. Summer is such a sweet time to be in the valley. Everyone has to go with their personal priorities, got to be true to yourself.

To be honest, the comments I have heard regarding the direction of Sugarbush has been mostly positive. If you were able to ski at all the resorts in New England last Sat. you would discover what makes the Bush great. I was at 5 resorts/ski hills last weekend and none had the high quality of ski conditions the Bush had. One was already closed for the season.

Nothing the Bush does will make everyone happy but I think they are moving forward in a positive way. It's ok to feel diferently I respect everyone's opinion. It does seem with the closing of the moviehouse turned nightclub, MMT, Gallaghers and now the BT one would think the area is prime for a new nightspot to come in. When the moviehouse closed it was a bummer for the wife and I so we adapt and go to the Majestic in Burl or Montpelier.

I will make this prediction...if you move down to Kmart you will be back, trust me, you will be back. :D

jmon
03-16-2006, 02:28 PM
so let's make affordable housing all up and down the Access road, let's have more DUI stops. Let's take anything to do outside of skiing/riding and drive the economy down to make my experience stuck in time. You do not get it..skiing is just one aspect of a so called resort area. You are the problem! NIMBY. I am here, so let's keep everyone else out.

how about some planning?


I too have ridden other areas this season, and while the ops crew has doen a great job at SB, KUDOS!!; let's be honest-the ops crew at killington makes SB look like amateur time. seriously.

Desiring a mountain experience of years past and quaint beauty is fine, but that aint the MRV anymore, look around. it has changed. you sound like a luddite. kidding. but not too much.

What nighltlife? Where were you last Saturday? i went from BT (5 people), Phoenix( 15 people), Smokehouse (30 people, great band, 1 unbelievably overweight and smelly guy though, wheew he stunk), and lastly the Hydeway to chat with Bob. If that is what you consider acceptable, you are losing an entire demographic,post colleg to 30's and 40's whom like to have fun, likley without a family. me I am 35.


Yeah-maybe Ktown is not ideal, and it is not, but it has options, and a pass program that rewards loyalty, and has tiers. And stowe aint my gig either. But options.

Positive comments for those whom want nobody else to visit maybe, but how long will your mountain be in business?

-Josh

Schusseur
03-16-2006, 09:47 PM
Jmon - you got it right. I don't think you're being particularly negative, you're being honest and quite direct. I don't think you're off base. I personally have a life-long experience tied up with the bush. If I remember back to when I was a kid... yeah that's right, Sugarbush WAS the killington and Stowe of the day. Lots of nightlife and restaurants. For gosh sakes Henri's was a serious hangout well into the 80's.

Having a place to go in the evening is just basic. What happened? SV just bought the Tooth 4 years ago - seemed they didn't mind being in the bar business then. In fact, they turned it back into a real bar when it had been a bar/restaurant.

SRO - I like your photographs and I've liked a lot of your comments over the years, but I think you are essentially the voice of management. You are definitely right that I will be back in the valley.

For those on this board who my know my identity, please forgive what I am about to say because there are many bush folks (of all levels) that I like a lot: I don't want to be around for what I believe is likely to happen. The housing market is turning down, inventories of unsold 'developments' are piling up and the economy may be a lot weaker this time next year.

This is not a good backdrop for the current financial condition of the bush. Management has just done too many things in the name of cost-cutting that scream "we're in trouble". People know this. Just one opinion coming from a guy who's turned sour, but it could get quite unpleasant.

Lostone
03-16-2006, 10:37 PM
Why do you guys think night life is a Sugarbush responsibility? Does Stowe own the Rusty Nail? K-Mart the Pickle Barrel? I believe those establishments to be owned by private citizens.

Yes, Summit Ventures did buy the Blue Tooth, and try to make it work. And rather than give them credit for trying, you say that it is their fault for not making it work.

I still say it is the fact that there weren't enough people going in to give them enough business.


jmon
Where were you last Saturday? i went from BT (5 people), Phoenix( 15 people), Smokehouse (30 people

You went to 3 places on a Saturday night and found 50 people? And then you say that it is Summit Ventures' fault that there isn't enough night life? How can places stay in business with so few people coming in? And it wasn't that Sugarbush didn't draw them in. If you were on the mountain Saturday, there were a million people out there! (If I told you once, I told you a million times... DON"T EXAGERATE! ) :lol: They did their part to draw people to the area.

The night life, they are now leaving to someone else. If you think it is a worthwhile business, buy the Hydeaway. Or the old Egan's Big World. Make it work.

ski_resort_observer
03-16-2006, 11:11 PM
so let's make affordable housing all up and down the Access road, let's have more DUI stops. Let's take anything to do outside of skiing/riding and drive the economy down to make my experience stuck in time. You do not get it..skiing is just one aspect of a so called resort area. You are the problem! NIMBY. I am here, so let's keep everyone else out.

how about some planning?


I too have ridden other areas this season, and while the ops crew has doen a great job at SB, KUDOS!!; let's be honest-the ops crew at killington makes SB look like amateur time. seriously.

Desiring a mountain experience of years past and quaint beauty is fine, but that aint the MRV anymore, look around. it has changed. you sound like a luddite. kidding. but not too much.

What nighltlife? Where were you last Saturday? i went from BT (5 people), Phoenix( 15 people), Smokehouse (30 people, great band, 1 unbelievably overweight and smelly guy though, wheew he stunk), and lastly the Hydeway to chat with Bob. If that is what you consider acceptable, you are losing an entire demographic,post colleg to 30's and 40's whom like to have fun, likley without a family. me I am 35.


Yeah-maybe Ktown is not ideal, and it is not, but it has options, and a pass program that rewards loyalty, and has tiers. And stowe aint my gig either. But options.

Positive comments for those whom want nobody else to visit maybe, but how long will your mountain be in business?

-Josh

:lol: What the heck is a luddite? Maybe my kids can tell me.

I have nothing against progress, growth and I am certainly not a NIMBY. I saw enough of that during my 17 years at Jackson Hole.

As I mentioned in my post I realize several bars/nightclubs have closed in the last few years. It would be great if some new ones opened up but as you pointed out the Bush/MRV apparently does not have the demographics to support them. I was thinking just the other day that the property at the bottom of the Access Rd on the left as you start up the hill would be an awesome place for a Rusty Nail/Pickle Barrel kind of place.

Yes, I strongly support the management. I worked at the Bush during the ASC days and last year for SV. I worked with both Win and Adam and respect their vision, hard work and desire to make the Bush a financial success.

I realize you have a beef with Adam and that's cool, it happens. Not much we can do about that here. Describing them as people "who want nobody else to visit" is ridiculous. You couldn't be more wrong.

Your trying put a square peg in a round hole. If alot of nightlife options is important to you than the MRV is probably not going to work for you. I don't think it's SV's fault that the moviehouse/nightclub(can't remember the name), MMT and Galleghers closed.

Real estate in the valley is doing fine. Inventories are tight, places are increasing in value. I am hopeful that the Claybrook project will be a catylyst to some growth in the valley which, ya never know, might include some new live music options. I first skied the Bush in 1970, interestenly about the time you were born. lol

I am sorry the Bush and the MRV is not living up to your personal vision of what should be happening here or meeting the needs of your group but that "aint't my gig either".

Good luck. Oh and Schusseur, I love your avatar over at AZ, get a chuckle everytime I see it and ironicly appropriate for your imput here. :wink:

Plowboy
03-17-2006, 12:47 AM
IMO there has been no nightlife here for a long time. Most ski areas have nothing to do with it. So, that leaves us with private owners, who have to deal with no #'s for 70% of the year. It's hard but some find a niche and do well.

Any land that is subdivided is gone like the wind. Must be why we have so many windholds this year. :D :D

It looks like crap now, but it's looked a lot worse. Give it time and who knows you might like it.

madskier6
03-17-2006, 02:29 PM
It's not clear to me why there is all this negativity about the direction of Sugarbush and the MRV. I realize it's been a tough snow year and maybe that has people on edge. With a few exceptions, I think the direction of Sugarbush and the Valley is on the upswing. Someone mentioned broken lifts, too little snowmaking and absence of nightlife as the cause of the negative outlook.

I completely agree that the closing of the Blue Tooth is not a good development and that having good nightlife is important for a thriving resort. I haven't heard any evidence that supports the idea that Summit Ventures ran it into the ground. I have no inside knowledge of this but am just wondering, what did they do specifically that ran the BT into the ground? I completely agree that there must be enough patrons for any business to be able to sustain itself and that SV alone can't singlehandedly increase customers to bars. I also agree that SV's #1 priority should be to make the skiing experience as good as it can be and to ensure the long term survival of the ski area through real estate development that makes sense and related activities.

Everyone seems to generally be applauding the work of Mountain Ops and I agree they've done a great job this year under very difficult conditions. How is broken lifts the fault of SV then? With a few exceptions for the older lifts, the condition of most of the lifts seems to be pretty good. Super Bravo (I think) broke down due to lightning from a thunderstorm and high winds. How can SV be blamed for that? The windholds are always cited as an example and they frustrate the hell out of me too. I don't however subscribe to the conspiracy theory that SV puts lifts on windhold to save money or to preserve powder stashes for preferred days or groups.

I realize a lot of people had legitimate complaints about the early season snowmaking decisions (i.e. Ripcord and Stein's Run) around Christmas and into January. It seems to me, however, that most of those concerns have been corrected to some degree. They're still making snow this late into March so I don't know how anyone can complain about that. I'm not trying to say everything is rosy but I don't think it's as bad as some people here have stated.

SB and the MRV will never be like KMart and Stowe (nor do most of us want it to be). I think an area has to be true to its character and emphasize the things it does well. The skiing in the Valley is top notch from a challenge perspective and the natural snow is better and more plentiful than most all of the Southern VT resorts. While good nighlife is important, it is more important to me that SB and the MRV sticks to what it does best and to its natural characteristics.

I'm relatively new to the Valley having bought my condo only two years ago. I did not experience the "SB glory days" of old when the nightlife was as hopping as at KMart and Stowe so I come at it from a different perspective. My wife and I chose to buy property in the Valley primarily for the excellent skiing and also due to the "vibe" present throughout the Valley. We love it here. While I would certainly welcome more and better nightlife options, that alone is not a deal breaker for me. I do, however, understand that this is an important aspect for the 20s and 30s crowd. I'm 43 but would go bar-hopping more if there were more and better options. The lack of nightlife, however, is not going to compel me to sell my condo. I respect others decision to do so and have no problem with it. I just wanted to express my perspective on that issue.

I do agree that it would be great if season passes were more affordable. My wife and I have 4 children and so buying passes for all of them is very expensive. We've bought season passes the last 2 years. If the prices don't come down at least a little, we may not be able to buy passes again next year. As our children get older, the cost obviously increases as they move towards adulthood and full prices. But we're not going to give up on SB and the MRV because of it. We'll just find other ways by buying discount passes and whatever other money saving specials we can take advantage of. While I would love it if pass prices came down, I would not want that to happen at the expense of the long-term survival of the ski area. We all know how well ASC is doing financially so one has to wonder whether the All-for-One pass makes sense from a long-term financial perspective. It's a great way for us skiers to be able to ski affordably but if the end result is shrinking, closure or sale of some ASC ski areas, then it's a bad move IMHO.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to add my perspective to the discussion. I'm not as negative about the direction of SB and the MRV as others have stated. I don't think it's perfect but it's better for me and my family than other ski area choices.

win
03-17-2006, 05:31 PM
Rather than respond to what are some very uninformed comments posted on skimrv.com, I invite anyone who is interested to join me for a beer in The Mushroom next Saturday, March 25th at 4pm. I would be happy to listen to any and all comments and suggestions, and I would like to share with everyone in person what is really happening and why. I also invite anyone to email me directly at wsmith@sugarbush.com if you want a straight answer to anything or call me at 802-583-6332. I appreciate the passion of those who post on skimrv.com, but some of the comments are not based on perspective or knowledge of what is really happening or what it takes to run a resort successful, so I welcome the opportunity to speak with all of you in person next week or at another time if it is more convenient.

Tin Woodsman
03-17-2006, 05:43 PM
Rather than respond to what are some very uninformed comments posted on skimrv.com, I invite anyone who is interested to join me for a beer in The Mushroom next Saturday, March 25th at 4pm. I would be happy to listen to any and all comments and suggestions, and I would like to share with everyone in person what is really happening and why. I also invite anyone to email me directly at wsmith@sugarbush.com if you want a straight answer to anything or call me at 802-583-6332. I appreciate the passion of those who post on skimrv.com, but some of the comments are not based on perspective or knowledge of what is really happening or what it takes to run a resort successful, so I welcome the opportunity to speak with all of you in person next week or at another time if it is more convenient.

Wow. Thanks for chiming in, Win. This is something of a milestone for us here at SkiMRV.

Should I have time, I think I'll take you up on your offer and I'd implore others here who have raved and ranted to do the same. For the record, I echo the applause given to the Mountain Ops team. I was bitching and whining about Steins/Ripcord over New Year, but they were both buried DEEP soon thereafter. One of my best days this winter was after a night of perfect snowmaking conditions on Ripcord - cold temps, low humidity, no wind. That sucker was absolutely buried by about 12-18" of the lightest, sweetest manmade I've ever seen. Just unbelievable. The job that crew has done in what can only be described as adverse conditions is truly remarkable. The lengths they've gone to to cover Lower Moonshine, The Mall, etc. are astounding. I'm still blown away by the fact that the mountain has continued to make snow right up through this week.

I'll second the notion regarding pass prices, however. I think you are about $100-$150 too high for the early birds. If you hit $800/$850, I'd be in on it Day 1 (plus interest), along with many friends and family. The payback for most weekenders, especially in a season like this, just isn't there when you are in the $900-$1000 range. And might I suggest that the Corporate Pass program be transformed into a Group Pass program for groups of 15/20 or more at a slightly higher price point. You know your P&L better than I ever will, but when you consider food, occasional lessons, and occasional rentals etc.., the lift ticket represents perhaps only 50-60% of the revenue you'll get out of me in a single day. If I had a pass, there is no doubt that I'd muster the will to leave the house on those wet days, or make it up from NYC on marginal weather weekends. As it stands, there's no motivation for me to do so even though your marginal cost of servicing me is close to zero.

BTW, I'm VERY glad to see that the plan for the VH chair has changed from a HSQ to a FG triple. Just a MUCH better idea all around.

Schusseur
03-17-2006, 10:01 PM
I think Win's offer of free discussion over a beer is a great idea. Many of us are in fact uninformed so that would be an opportunity to get on the same page.

smootharc
03-18-2006, 07:51 AM
....his money is. Kudos to Mr. Smith for suggesting such a meeting.

This is the latest in numerous instances where the SB and SV folks have shown they care enough to engage, respond, educate....and stand in the line of fire with regard to customer concerns and complaints. Wow !

Try that as most other companies this size and scope, and you'll find yourself being seduced by a PR expert with an Ivy MBA named Claire (sorry to all the Claire's out there) who, once she's expertly skooched you out the door (like the Grinch with Cindy-loo-who), leaves you wondering why you went there in the first place.

Edit: (With) Wish I could be there, and I will await with interest some feedback.

Schusseur
03-18-2006, 11:32 AM
That's right smootharc. But in the end the "claires" of the PR world don't work out. The customers just end up voting with their feet. In this case we're not talking about which loaf of bread to buy. Folks choosing a weekend retreat are making a big decision and are fairly 'locked-in' with condos and passes, etc. But it ain't pre-1984 AT&T either.

It all starts with communication from the top. Not the PR version, because that's just so transparent. I personally have a number of frustrations about the bush, but am realistic enough to know it's a brutal business and the grass may not be whiter elsewhere.

Looking forward to communicating with the SV team. I promise to be well-mannered and respectful. Slight chance I won't be around next weekend - but no matter, Win has thrown the ball back in the gripers' court, and that is highly appreciated.

HowieT2
03-18-2006, 02:00 PM
I am 38 and have been skiing the bush consistently now for about 5 years. This coincides with my kids becoming skiers now that they are of age. Do I have issues, certainly. But I think the mountain did as good a job as possible considering the awful weather this winter.
I have a number of friends from NY, Westchester, Ct who love Sugarbush/MRV and will be making it their permanent ski base as soon as finances permit it. We all are looking for things that the competition can't offer but MRV does. Namely, great skiing and sparse crowds. These qualities are inconsistent with the kind of "nightlife" say KMart has. So be it.

In speaking to those interested in skiing from my area I think there are a number of issues which should be addressed. First of all, the on mountain (not just the base) food situation can only get better. Not only would it please the customers but there is revenue to be made. While the new lodge and Claybrook will be great, I think there is a need for more housing on mountain without necesarily the kind os service (and prices) at Claybrook.
Most significantly, MRV must do a better job marketing in this area. There is a perception that MRV is just too far, especially for a weekend. A large part of the market here, believes that there only choices are Killington, Okemo and Stratten. While there is no denying those areas are closer, the difference is not that great. MRV should have some kind of plan to get people up for weekends so that they can see (and spread the word) that it isn't really that far.
Win, I rode up with you on the first chair on friday of Superbowl weekend. Despite your optimism, the tropical rains that followed shortly thereafter really put a damper on things. Better luck next year with the snow.

ski_resort_observer
03-18-2006, 03:02 PM
I am 38 and have been skiing the bush consistently now for about 5 years. This coincides with my kids becoming skiers now that they are of age. Do I have issues, certainly. But I think the mountain did as good a job as possible considering the awful weather this winter.
I have a number of friends from NY, Westchester, Ct who love Sugarbush/MRV and will be making it their permanent ski base as soon as finances permit it. We all are looking for things that the competition can't offer but MRV does. Namely, great skiing and sparse crowds. These qualities are inconsistent with the kind of "nightlife" say KMart has. So be it.

In speaking to those interested in skiing from my area I think there are a number of issues which should be addressed. First of all, the on mountain (not just the base) food situation can only get better. Not only would it please the customers but there is revenue to be made. While the new lodge and Claybrook will be great, I think there is a need for more housing on mountain without necesarily the kind os service (and prices) at Claybrook.
Most significantly, MRV must do a better job marketing in this area. There is a perception that MRV is just too far, especially for a weekend. A large part of the market here, believes that there only choices are Killington, Okemo and Stratten. While there is no denying those areas are closer, the difference is not that great. MRV should have some kind of plan to get people up for weekends so that they can see (and spread the word) that it isn't really that far.
Win, I rode up with you on the first chair on friday of Superbowl weekend. Despite your optimism, the tropical rains that followed shortly thereafter really put a damper on things. Better luck next year with the snow.

Wonderful post!

I agree with both of your points. The Bush has for many years had a bad rep for on mountain food. I think SV has made some good improvenments(Allyn Lodge, better food in Gatehouse and Green Mt Lodge) but there still is plenty of room for improvement. I assume your talking about food in the base lodges and on mountain places not what might be available in the Claybrook complex. SV hired a new F&B guy a year or so ago. He is Austrian which I thought was a cool conection with the early history of the Bush. Not sure if he is still there.

In the 5 years I worked there I don't think I ever bought food at any of the base lodges even with the generous employee discount except for really fantastic but pricey burgers at the Mushroom so I honestly have no first hand eating experience last winter but heard lots of comments.

Surprisingly I think there was better cooperation regarding marketing between MRG and the Bush back in the ASC days. The Ski the Valley program is good and the recently name changed MRV Chamber does a great job in providing a communication bridge between the two resorts but it has to be crossed to produce results.

The Bush and MRG, for example, used to do a combined ski show booth. Tthe best part of doing those shows was the chance to hang out with Eric F. of MRG. Very upbeat, casual and funny person. I was sorta glad when I was not asked to do ski shows last winter. As you pointed out a combined effort in the marketing area would be a very good thing.

Strat
03-18-2006, 03:20 PM
I assume your talking about food in the base lodges and on mountain places not what might be available in the Claybrook complex. SV hired a new F&B guy a year or so ago. He is Austrian which I thought was a cool conection with the early history of the Bush. Not sure if he is still there.

If you mean Peter Nohl, then yes, I'm pretty sure he's still there.

ski_resort_observer
03-18-2006, 05:05 PM
I assume your talking about food in the base lodges and on mountain places not what might be available in the Claybrook complex. SV hired a new F&B guy a year or so ago. He is Austrian which I thought was a cool conection with the early history of the Bush. Not sure if he is still there.

If you mean Peter Nohl, then yes, I'm pretty sure he's still there.

Thanks :D

Dr. NO
03-20-2006, 08:51 PM
Rather than respond to what are some very uninformed comments posted on skimrv.com, I invite anyone who is interested to join me for a beer in The Mushroom next Saturday, March 25th at 4pm. I would be happy to listen to any and all comments and suggestions, and I would like to share with everyone in person what is really happening and why. I also invite anyone to email me directly at wsmith@sugarbush.com if you want a straight answer to anything or call me at 802-583-6332. I appreciate the passion of those who post on skimrv.com, but some of the comments are not based on perspective or knowledge of what is really happening or what it takes to run a resort successful, so I welcome the opportunity to speak with all of you in person next week or at another time if it is more convenient.

I enjoy the fact that you wish to listen and comment. One gripe I have is, not knowing who you were, the lift line on a windy day STOPPED. People were talking to this person in the line, thus stopping the line. It was YOU. 50 minutes after getting into line, I got to my race course. Maybe you could talk while they move? Afterward, I saw you name tag. Not impressed by labels, by now know who you and your position.

BTW, seeing you twice when up at the Bush was good. Shows you want to know how things are going and be a part of the crowd and mountain.

castlerock
03-21-2006, 08:53 AM
One gripe I have is, not knowing who you were, the lift line on a windy day STOPPED. People were talking to this person in the line, thus stopping the line. It was YOU. 50 minutes after getting into line, I got to my race course. Maybe you could talk while they move?

Uhhhh Dr. No.....Did any empty chairs go up during the conversation? If not. I don't get it.......

jmon
03-21-2006, 11:25 AM
I will not be up this weekend, and will be up for Pond Skimming. I appreciate Win's offer, but never took Win up on the offer early in season for coffee - namely for the reason in #1:


1) Rejected of my corp pass group (Andrew K. group) but accepted Thomas H., so how did that happen? Note I gave Tom your email addy, and he had already been rejected. You folks play favorites, and have a horrid pass program. And by extension poor marketing.

2)Where is the new season pass program? ASC already has there's rolled out?! back to marketing problems.

3) I <theoretically> sourced tickets for 32.50 cents again this year, so how was this a good business decision on your part for #1? heck we were willing to give more $$ than your corp progrm asked for!

As to nightlife, well does not ASC own the Wobbly? There is precedent for mountains to own nightlife and restraunts. Or not which is fine. But to do what SV did....own it, steam roll it into the ground, and trade it for affordable housing?? SIGH. Not to be at fault though completely is SV; the prior owner was a bit tired of running the show and the business climate in MRV seems tough as of late, look at the number of places closing or sold in last 2 years(rositas,bass,gallaghers,mad mountain, hydeaway for sale,downhill edge,blue tooth). This sounds like a rant on the Tooth closing, it is not, more of an example.

My point is the symbiotic nature of a resort and it's surroundings-and there has never been more of a disjoint in the MRV than now.

Believe me, I would rather stay, but the lack of options OUTSIDE of the mountain gets tiresome. And the Bush is pricey now, and what do you get is my point in comparison? People buy places in MRV for emotional reasons and love of the area, but clearly buying at other mountains is a better business decision/investment.


IF SV and MRV wants to be a family mountain, they are ignoring a large spending demographic is my point. And this demographic turns into the family demo.

If I wanted no nightlife, another 30 minutes gets me to Jay and lots MORE POW.

Believe me, I know Killington well, and it is not my ideal, but I'll trade the negatives and recruit very person from MRV I can in the meantime, just like I and my fellow ski share house runenrs have done for 7 years to ASC...and it will not be difficult. I/we spent 7+/- years at the bush, and recruited lots of people from Killington, so this does not come lightly to leave and set up base elsewhere for next season(s).


Maybe SV is just having marketing issues, maybe the bad season exacerbated feelings, but I am not alone in my thoughts...there might be a reason the slopes are empty...folks are voting with their feet.



-Josh

smootharc
03-21-2006, 11:38 AM
If I wanted no nightlife, another 30 minutes gets me to Jay and lots MORE POW.

....is, according to Mapquest....from Rt100/Access road to Jay Peak base area is 74 miles, and estimated driving time of 1hr 51minutes. But perhaps you mean from where you start it's +30minutes more to Jay.

Anyone have a nifty "secret way" to Jay from the valley I'd love to hear about it....figure I should hit JP at least once a winter.

Can't comment on all the rest of your problems. Must say I like the valley and believe it's a great place....but I'm older and not necessarily wiser.

skibum1321
03-22-2006, 08:03 AM
3) I <theoretically> sourced tickets for 32.50 cents again this year, so how was this a good business decision on your part for #1? heck we were willing to give more $$ than your corp progrm asked for!

As to nightlife, well does not ASC own the Wobbly? There is precedent for mountains to own nightlife and restraunts. Or not which is fine. But to do what SV did....own it, steam roll it into the ground, and trade it for affordable housing?? SIGH. Not to be at fault though completely is SV; the prior owner was a bit tired of running the show and the business climate in MRV seems tough as of late, look at the number of places closing or sold in last 2 years(rositas,bass,gallaghers,mad mountain, hydeaway for sale,downhill edge,blue tooth). This sounds like a rant on the Tooth closing, it is not, more of an example.

My point is the symbiotic nature of a resort and it's surroundings-and there has never been more of a disjoint in the MRV than now.

Believe me, I would rather stay, but the lack of options OUTSIDE of the mountain gets tiresome. And the Bush is pricey now, and what do you get is my point in comparison? People buy places in MRV for emotional reasons and love of the area, but clearly buying at other mountains is a better business decision/investment.


IF SV and MRV wants to be a family mountain, they are ignoring a large spending demographic is my point. And this demographic turns into the family demo.

If I wanted no nightlife, another 30 minutes gets me to Jay and lots MORE POW.

Believe me, I know Killington well, and it is not my ideal, but I'll trade the negatives and recruit very person from MRV I can in the meantime, just like I and my fellow ski share house runenrs have done for 7 years to ASC...and it will not be difficult. I/we spent 7+/- years at the bush, and recruited lots of people from Killington, so this does not come lightly to leave and set up base elsewhere for next season(s).


Maybe SV is just having marketing issues, maybe the bad season exacerbated feelings, but I am not alone in my thoughts...there might be a reason the slopes are empty...folks are voting with their feet.



-Josh
You complain it is too expensive and yet you say that you were willing to give them more money than you paid for your corporate pass. That seems kind of contradictory to me.

Maybe you should stop whining about what you don't like about the Bush. Having read all of your posts now, it seems to be more of a personal vendetta against management than anything else. You are like a little kid that won't listen to anyone else. If you have a problem with management, he is giving you a prime opportunity to go talk to him about it. But instead you want to sit in the corner and pout.

If you are really that fed up with the MRV, then just leave. We've heard your issues - there is a nice board called K-zone that you can go join. Have fun at Kmart.

win
03-22-2006, 08:28 AM
I am looking forward to meeting with those you can make it this weekend, and I will also be pleased to get an email with any thoughts or questions from those who can not make it this Saturday at 4pm.


Schusseur asked a question about the snowfall which I will answer. We did get approximately 15" on the top of the mountain on Monday. The past couple of storms have been a bit unusual in that they dropped snow on the Western side of the Green Mountains and the higher elevations but not as much even at midstation or the base area. Where I live in East Warren there was no more than 2" and even at the base that morning probably less than 6", but when we got to the top we discovered 12-15". When you got over the Roxbury gap and south a couple of miles there was hardly anything and it is brown by the time you get to Exit 3 on 89. For the snowreport we attempt to show an average so as to not mislead. Arguably, we have been too conservative this year with our reporting as I look at other resort's reports.

It is skiing and riding really well and the forecast for the rest of the week looks very favorable with more snow showers and warmer and possibly partly sunny skies for the weekend. We have 97 trails open this morning. I believe that this is the most number of trails in New England today. Okemo is reporting 91, Killington 94 and Sunday River 90.

Win

Tin Woodsman
03-22-2006, 09:45 AM
Schusseur asked a question about the snowfall which I will answer. We did get approximately 15" on the top of the mountain on Monday. The past couple of storms have been a bit unusual in that they dropped snow on the Western side of the Green Mountains and the higher elevations but not as much even at midstation or the base area. Where I live in East Warren there was no more than 2" and even at the base that morning probably less than 6", but when we got to the top we discovered 12-15". When you got over the Roxbury gap and south a couple of miles there was hardly anything and it is brown by the time you get to Exit 3 on 89. For the snowreport we attempt to show an average so as to not mislead. Arguably, we have been too conservative this year with our reporting as I look at other resort's reports.

I'm glad you've acknowledged this issue. Might I suggest that SB simply post a snowfall range like MRG? The simple fact of mountain weather is that for a variety of reasons, you'll get more snow at the top than you do at the bottom. IMO, there should be no hesitation to point out that Heaven's Gate has 15" while LP base has 6" new. The truth is what it is, and skiers are by and large smart enough to figure things out. Thankfully, SB does NOT include the October dump in its seasonal snowfall totals - a completely misleading tactic employed by some resorts in New England.



It is skiing and riding really well and the forecast for the rest of the week looks very favorable with more snow showers and warmer and possibly partly sunny skies for the weekend. We have 97 trails open this morning. I believe that this is the most number of trails in New England today. Okemo is reporting 91, Killington 94 and Sunday River 90.


This is good to see, I suppose, but I think trail counts are the single most misleading statistic in skiing considering all the upper, lower and middle thus-and-such names masquerading as individual trails.

HowieT2
03-22-2006, 08:50 PM
I'll take you up on that beer as I just resolved a matter at work and can therefore ski this weekend.

madskier6
03-24-2006, 08:04 AM
Rather than respond to what are some very uninformed comments posted on skimrv.com, I invite anyone who is interested to join me for a beer in The Mushroom next Saturday, March 25th at 4pm. I would be happy to listen to any and all comments and suggestions, and I would like to share with everyone in person what is really happening and why.

I will definitely be there on Saturday. As others have said, I think it's great that Win is doing this. I hope, however, that the discussion is civil. See you on Saturday.

smootharc
03-24-2006, 08:39 AM
I will definitely be there on Saturday. As others have said, I think it's great that Win is doing this. I hope, however, that the discussion is civil. See you on Saturday.

....will be assured, as Win will surely have his "crew" of burly groomer operators hovering in the shadows.... :lol:

"Those who oppose" may never be seen or heard from again. Slidebrook's a big place.

Lostone
03-24-2006, 09:04 AM
Sounds like there will be some people there. I'll try to make it, but I'll be a little late. I work Saturday and get of around 4:30.

I'll check up there and see if anyone is still around, but am likely one of the least important people to be there, as I'm there all the time. :wink: