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smootharc
03-14-2006, 07:34 AM
Thought perhaps a dedicated thread would be interesting.

And why not start it off with this....

http://www.markolfdesigns.com/bridgehampton.htm

.....which I noticed this weekend in a classified in the Valley Reporter's real estate section. It was extensively discussed in the AZ Sugarbush Thread with the thought it was being built for someone....but it looks like a spec house.

Just looking at the classifieds (with some FSBO ads) and the MLS.....seems condo's are being priced aggressively. I think a Forum unit was placed on the market at 410k. We looked at one two years ago for $285k.

So, Howie asks you....."Deal, or no Deal ?".....wait, he meant "Bubble, or no Bubble ?"....

noski
03-14-2006, 09:01 AM
I see an episode of Amazing Vacation Homes in the offing. Not my style of home, that much I will say. Give me a wrap around porch with a view any day.

Lostone
03-14-2006, 09:46 AM
Never seen a place that has inspired such a wellspring of dislike.

The best I've heard about it is that it doesn't belong here.

You mention the white elephant and everyone immediately knows what you are talking about.


As to the larger point, I think the bubble is the same one that is in the NE, if not nation. How long can it last? Some think it couldn't last as long as it has.

As to the question in the Blue Tooth thread as to what is affordable in the valley, the more that is built, the more becomes affordable in the long run. Thereare a lot of people living in these condos, full time. ( * raises hand * )

Fourwide
03-14-2006, 10:04 AM
Man, that's some forbidding-looking place--looks like it could house a medical research center! Guess no one told them that warmer colors work better in the northland? Re. real estate in the valley, there's a pretty obvious shortage of condo space. I'd bet that the access road and german flats get built up a bit over time. The slopeside stuff, especially the true slopeside, will continue to appreciate, in my humble.

ski_resort_observer
03-14-2006, 12:25 PM
I think that house is totally awesome...except for the color. If it was painted a dark earth tone and blended in it could be a cool addition to the village. Did the architect give them a deal if they allowed it to be a neon-like ad for his work? Wonder if there is a chance that whoever buys it will maybe repaint it.

I don't begrudge people who build these mansions but wish they would make an effort to blend into the landscape better. I really respect those who build them and they are basically hidden from public view. Out west and here in the east it has gotton so bad that many places have tight building restrictions. In the MRV you can't build above 1700 feet and in Jackson Hole you cannot build on top of an open hill/ridge.

Compared to most "ski towns" real estate is cheap in the Mad River Valley. I bought my place for 1/4 of what it would cost in Jackson Hole and 1/2 of Stowe's prices. It's been pretty sedentary(real estate expension) for the last 10 years and many are hoping that Claybrook will be a catylyst to some expansion on the real estate situation. While the prices are still a good deal, altho have gone steadily up at a slow pace in recent years, the supply is very tight. I think buying a place in the valley is a good investment.

I also think the need for affordable housing will get greater as times moves forward and as each year passes by the task of doing affordable housing will get harder and harder. I have seen it happen in ski/resort towns all over the country.

smootharc
03-14-2006, 01:01 PM
I think that house is totally awesome...except for the color. If it was painted a dark earth tone and blended in it could be a cool addition to the village. Did the architect give them a deal if they allowed it to be a neon-like ad for his work? Wonder if there is a chance that whoever buys it will maybe repaint it.

....let's all chip in and buy the place....then let Ullr live there for free ! 700" annual for the valley !

Good observations on the place.....sort of didn't mind it my self as I mentioned in the SB thread on AZ...feeling both the color and replace glass block (not a personal favorite) and some landscaping, and, well....better. Don't like the piece of land from a traffic and privacy standpoint. Set back in a niche of pine somewhere up a long driveway....well, could be pretty nifty. Interior space looks interesting.

Different strokes....

KingM
03-14-2006, 03:42 PM
I think it's an attractive house for Arizona or Southern California. I don't understand why someone would build in that style in the mountains of Vermont, though.

skibum1321
03-15-2006, 07:55 AM
Speaking of Claybrook, I think it looks obnoxious. I liked the old base set-up much better. I guess I'm just longing for the Sugarbush of 3 or 4 years ago...

noski
03-15-2006, 08:23 AM
Speaking of Claybrook, I think it looks obnoxious. I liked the old base set-up much better. I guess I'm just longing for the Sugarbush of 3 or 4 years ago... I think it would look awesome just after a 3 foot snowstorm :wink: You'd probably like it just fine too! :D

djspookman
03-15-2006, 09:19 AM
Thought perhaps a dedicated thread would be interesting.

And why not start it off with this....

http://www.markolfdesigns.com/bridgehampton.htm

.....which I noticed this weekend in a classified in the Valley Reporter's real estate section. It was extensively discussed in the AZ Sugarbush Thread with the thought it was being built for someone....but it looks like a spec house.

Just looking at the classifieds (with some FSBO ads) and the MLS.....seems condo's are being priced aggressively. I think a Forum unit was placed on the market at 410k. We looked at one two years ago for $285k.

So, Howie asks you....."Deal, or no Deal ?".....wait, he meant "Bubble, or no Bubble ?"....

I saw that place last fall before I moved and was pretty disturbed. As an architect, I try and blend houses/buildings into their environments and not make a brash statement such as this architect/designer did.

For me, it's all about context, and this white elephant is definately that at a ski resort. But to each his own I suppose! I am surprised it got past the Warren planning board though, but then again, I guess its not a historic district so I guess the planning board dosen't really have a say.

As for the Clay Brook project, I prefer the original design, but I think they did pretty good with the plan they have now considering the budget! (although the idea of a farm [silo] at the base of a ski resort is a little odd-but I do see what look they were going for.)

Dave

jmon
03-15-2006, 01:49 PM
I can not make my mind up when I see this house, it definitely sticks out! Odd location really, for the house as someone else noted, no privacy. Close to road. 800 smackeroos!! wonder how long that stays on market? Hmm...I would be rather nervous myself. The acronym white elephant seems spot on.

Seems more appropo for "Scarface" or maybe a San Fernando Valley porno production site.


-Josh

KingM
03-15-2006, 02:31 PM
I like the look of the Claybrook Lodge. It's got a nice Vermont flavor to it.

skibum1321
03-15-2006, 02:47 PM
I like the look of the Claybrook Lodge. It's got a nice Vermont flavor to it.
I just think it towers over the parking lot and takes away something from the base area. I liked the fact that there was no monstrosity at the base of Sugarbush before. That has changed with Claybrook.

Fourwide
03-15-2006, 03:02 PM
I take your point--the "old" base area had a casual, old-time feel to it. However, it was completely outdated and, to my mind, presented the wrong image to the weekend/holiday skier. Many of these folks are looking for a great ski spot, yes, but also for a "major league" ski experience. The old base area was decidedly understated, even "minor league". Believe it or not, lots of these skiers want to drive up the access road of whatever area they're visiting and be a bit overwhelmed. Finding the balance between major league and minor league has been, and will continue to be, a challenge for Sugarbush. I would be shocked, however, if the Claybrook project and the associated LP base area renovation doesn't turn out to be a huge commercial success.

Tin Woodsman
03-15-2006, 05:36 PM
Clay Brook defintiely looks out of place right now given its size. I think it's design will generally be a winner, as opposed to the generic crap that is the Grand Summit Hotels at ASC resorts. While it does tower over the other structures in the base area today, I think that will be ameliorated by the imminent construction of the Skier Services Bldg and the new Gate House Lodge. Both of these structures will be far larger (in height and width) than what is currently sitting on their footprint and will help to make Clay Brook fit in a little better. Here's the master plan for the base that shows what I'm talking about:

http://www.lincolnpeakvillage.com/ezstatic/data/lincolnpeakvillage/i/siteplan_large.jpg

I'd like to think that this project wil bea huge success and act as the genesis for a real estate renaissance in the area, but I'm sceptical. According to SB's own website, they've only sold about 60% of the inventory so far.

http://www.lincolnpeakvillage.com/static/lincolnpeakvillage/inventory.php

Maybe that page hasn't been updated recently, but if it's accurate, that's not exactly great progress (they allegedly had over 50% sold by the time they announced the project a year ago)

smootharc
03-16-2006, 09:11 AM
Clay Brook defintiely looks out of place right now given its size. I think it's design will generally be a winner, as opposed to the generic crap that is the Grand Summit Hotels at ASC resorts. While it does tower over the other structures in the base area today, I think that will be ameliorated by the imminent construction of the Skier Services Bldg and the new Gate House Lodge. Both of these structures will be far larger (in height and width) than what is currently sitting on their footprint and will help to make Clay Brook fit in a little better.

....that when the whole thing is in place, buildings and landscaping together, that the look and feel should "work". Lest we forget how scrufty the parking lot "initial impression" used to be, and that was in winter. Non-winter months.....personally....I felt it was bordering on a wasteland feel....

Fourwide
03-16-2006, 09:24 AM
Thanks, Tin. I didn't realize that the north side of the project would be so built out. Do you know the purpose of bldgs. A4b, B1 and B2? I assume skier services (which includes all the stuff now based in the temp. structures) is all in A4a? The new Gatehouse Lodge does look huge. Do you know whether the existing structure will be completely torn down? (Sorry for all the questions!).

Regarding Claybrook proper, true. they aren't selling like the Ritz at SLC, but it does look as though they've got a large percentage of the 3, 4 and 5 bedroom space sold (which I'd guess would be the toughest sell). I'm no expert, but I find it hard to believe that an appropriate amount of true slopeside accomodations won't sell nicely, and Claybrook's 60+ units, given the scarcity of slopeside accomodations at SB (and almost everywhere else in the NE), just doesn't intuitively seem like too much.

ski_resort_observer
03-16-2006, 09:43 AM
personally....I felt it was bordering on a wasteland feel....

You have to accept the idea that during any major construction phase, ski resort base or highway, the visuals are not going to be very pleasing. Look past that to what it will look like when it is finished.

Think of a road construction site in your area. Maybe it was a nightmare during construction but now that it has been completed, the hassles of construction are totally forgotten.

For years the base area of Jackson Hole,Teton Village, remained devoid of major new developement. Then things started happening, big fancy hotels, condo projects, huge cranes everywhere for over 2 years. Everyone complained. Now that it is done, everything looks great , everyone is happy.

When the wife and I took the Amtrak(the Downeaster) from Portland to the then Fleet Center to see CSN&Y you get off at the North Station in Boston, right in the middle of a huge constuction project(the Big Dig). We commented to each that the area made you feel you just ended up in Beruit after several bombings. But, we knew in a couple of years things would look better and they do.

Look past the construction, don't pass judgement until it is finished. SV has a vision for the base area, let them play it out. I am very excited as to what the base will look like a year, 2 years from now. Maybe I will end up with egg on my face, that's cool. Maybe the finished product will totally suck.....I'm betting it will be great.

noski
03-16-2006, 09:51 AM
The "wasteland" comment I took to mean the look of a scraggly, barren dustbowl parking lot up there in the summer overall. The new facilities and landscaping will go a long way to making the base area more vibrant in all seasons.

Fourwide: yes, gatehouse will be totally razed very shortly after closing for the season. I too like the looks of the Lodge and once the buildout is done, will blend nicely with the surroundings.

Hang in there, guys and gals.

skibum1321
03-16-2006, 09:53 AM
When the wife and I took the Amtrak(the Downeaster) from Portland to the then Fleet Center to see CSN&Y you get off at the North Station in Boston, right in the middle of a huge constuction project(the Big Dig). We commented to each that the area made you feel you just ended up in Beruit after several bombings. But, we knew in a couple of years things would look better and they do.
The Big Dig is a construction project that will never end... It's one problem after another. Let's hope the Bush does a little better than Boston.

smootharc
03-16-2006, 10:34 AM
The "wasteland" comment I took to mean the look of a scraggly, barren dustbowl parking lot up there in the summer overall. The new facilities and landscaping will go a long way to making the base area more vibrant in all seasons.

....comment was indeed just for the area of the parking lot....barren, windy, dusty. One of the things I liked the most from SV's Lincoln peak plan was the landscaping in the parking area.

I'm rooting for success, and think SB will get there. I agree with the comments that the current "administrations" heart seems to be in the right place....and would add that minor missteps and sideways moves are probably both to be expected and natural in light of the overall complexity and scope of the project. I can't speak for Mr. Smith....but he must indeed really love this place, because if I was him I'd be skiing powder at my place at the Yellowstone Club, sleeping in, and having fun. Whereas he's out there putting alot on the line...and I'm guessing working like a dog.

ski_resort_observer
03-16-2006, 10:34 AM
When the wife and I took the Amtrak(the Downeaster) from Portland to the then Fleet Center to see CSN&Y you get off at the North Station in Boston, right in the middle of a huge constuction project(the Big Dig). We commented to each that the area made you feel you just ended up in Beruit after several bombings. But, we knew in a couple of years things would look better and they do.
The Big Dig is a construction project that will never end... It's one problem after another. Let's hope the Bush does a little better than Boston.

Me too...Yeah...realize the scale is alittle off. Took my son and a friend to Logan yesterday. The new bridge is awesome, especially at night, but, as you know, the problems(cost overruns,corruption,water leaking in everywhere, will linger for many years to come.

Strat
03-17-2006, 09:24 AM
I dunno about many other people, but I kinda liked the old "wasteland" feel in the parking lot... it was nice to go up there and know that you're the only person on that entire huge mountain... alas, it is no more. But once you get up hiking a few hundred feet it will probably be okay 8)

Tin Woodsman
03-17-2006, 01:52 PM
Thanks, Tin. I didn't realize that the north side of the project would be so built out. Do you know the purpose of bldgs. A4b, B1 and B2? I assume skier services (which includes all the stuff now based in the temp. structures) is all in A4a? The new Gatehouse Lodge does look huge. Do you know whether the existing structure will be completely torn down? (Sorry for all the questions!).


I don't know, actually. The skier services bldg is the one directly to the right (North) of Clay Brook. The other buildings on the North edge of the parking lot will presumably be lodging of some kind. If that gets built out, it would provide a real nice connection to SB Village, which can seem somewhat cut-off from the mountain with the current set-up.

ski_resort_observer
03-17-2006, 04:38 PM
If that gets built out, it would provide a real nice connection to SB Village, which can seem somewhat cut-off from the mountain with the current set-up.

I agree 1000% and would be thrilled if that happened.

I have suggested for years to somehow connect the Gatehouse Base with Sugarbush Villege. I thought maybe a nice outdoor skating rink with a nice lighted pathway would be better than the current situation. The wall I always ran into was that Sugarbush(the ski resort) has no financial connection with Sugarbush Village.

One year ASC did make an attempt to put some businesses in the usually ghostown like Sugarbush Village by putting in a video/gameroom for kids and a convenience store/pizza place went in. Unfortunately they did not work out financially.

Treehugger
03-19-2006, 12:57 AM
I just heard they've sold 80%+, from some SBush admin friends. That's gonna be the easy part. The challenge will be managing the new facilities at a higher level than what we're seeing now. Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress.

smootharc
03-22-2006, 07:39 AM
....the valley real estate remains both tight, and solidly rising despite talk of RE bubble pullbacks in some areas of the country.

Is it perhaps that some of people looking to potentially buy in VT ski country, who are seeing the stratton/okemo/stowe pricing structures, eventually "think outside the box" and take a look at the valley....say hmmm....and add to the demand that seems to keep prices solidly heading up, and inventory tight ? Should be interesting when spring "listing season" hits, and with the increased inventory and owner price expectations, how the product moves.

Tin Woodsman
03-22-2006, 09:51 AM
I just heard they've sold 80%+, from some SBush admin friends. That's gonna be the easy part. The challenge will be managing the new facilities at a higher level than what we're seeing now. Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress.

Well that isn't what the website says, though it's entirely possible that it hasn't been updated in a while. We could both be "right" in that maybe 80% of the units have at least a fractional owner, but they might not be fully committed for the year. If 80% of all quarter shares have been spoken for, then that's truly great progress considering what a crap snow year it's been, but I've seen no evidence of such.

Amen on your second point, brother. If you're going to do this, do it right and DON'T continue to "learn on the job" on the resort side of the business. Bring in a seasoned pro who has done this before and can get Clay Brook off the ground on the right foot. Cliche warning - you only have one chance to make a good first impression. Wouldn't it be great if the only feedback coming out of Clay Brook owners in YUear 1 was how well it was being run and how glad they are they bought into SB and, by extention, SV. That would provide a spring board for further real estate opportunities on the northern edge of the parking lot and go a long way towards ensuring the long-term health of a ski area that most of us have come to love.

Treehugger
03-22-2006, 06:53 PM
Yeah, I see what you mean about 80% of the quarter shares. More like 60% of available shares, but at least a share of almost all the units. I guess ya gotta spin positive.



I just heard they've sold 80%+, from some SBush admin friends. That's gonna be the easy part. The challenge will be managing the new facilities at a higher level than what we're seeing now. Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress.

Well that isn't what the website says, though it's entirely possible that it hasn't been updated in a while. We could both be "right" in that maybe 80% of the units have at least a fractional owner, but they might not be fully committed for the year. If 80% of all quarter shares have been spoken for, then that's truly great progress considering what a crap snow year it's been, but I've seen no evidence of such.

Amen on your second point, brother. If you're going to do this, do it right and DON'T continue to "learn on the job" on the resort side of the business. Bring in a seasoned pro who has done this before and can get Clay Brook off the ground on the right foot. Cliche warning - you only have one chance to make a good first impression. Wouldn't it be great if the only feedback coming out of Clay Brook owners in YUear 1 was how well it was being run and how glad they are they bought into SB and, by extention, SV. That would provide a spring board for further real estate opportunities on the northern edge of the parking lot and go a long way towards ensuring the long-term health of a ski area that most of us have come to love.

Lostone
03-22-2006, 09:07 PM
Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress.

First of all, I agree with you. I think the management would, also.

The questions would be:
1) In what way have you found the service to be inferior? I've heard much good and almost nothing bad about the service, both in helpfulness and friendliness, from surveys and people.

B) By crappy, overpriced food, are you referring to what you can make, or find in other ski resorts? And are you referring to the food in the lodge, or places like the Grill and Sugarbush Inn?

I think constructive criticism is always welcome. :wink:

Tin Woodsman
03-23-2006, 09:52 AM
Beautiful buildings with crappy, overpriced food and inferior service will not constitute progress.

First of all, I agree with you. I think the management would, also.

The questions would be:
1) In what way have you found the service to be inferior? I've heard much good and almost nothing bad about the service, both in helpfulness and friendliness, from surveys and people.

B) By crappy, overpriced food, are you referring to what you can make, or find in other ski resorts? And are you referring to the food in the lodge, or places like the Grill and Sugarbush Inn?

I think constructive criticism is always welcome. :wink:

I'm not Treehugger, and I don't play him on TV, but I have a few thoughts on this. I've onyl eaten at the SB Inn once, so I can't speak to SB's overall level of high end food/service, but I can't say that what I've seen on the mountain is promising. I think the concessionaire strategy employed at Allyn's Lodge this year has been a disaster. The options are sugar (candy or waffle form) or a grumpy hot dog server with frozen drinks (who'da thunk that drinks would freeze when left outside at 3000' in Northern Vt in winter?). Look at the SB Racquet Club or whatever it's called. The place looks like a disaster and hasn't had a dime invested in it for years.
'
Every pass holder gets a coupon book good good for 1/2 off a meal at the Grill. A friend of mine brought three of those coupons (they have multiple season tickets) for a family dinner and the manager of the Grill insisted that they would only honor one per meal, despite the fact that there is NO such restriction on the coupon or booklet. Even though he reached out to tell Adam, the same thing happened a month later. What kind of crap service/instincts is that?

Granted, these are disparate obvservations/incidents, but as far as I'm concerned, they speak to a general inattention to F&B hospitality. More work needs to be done in that regard.

smootharc
03-23-2006, 10:39 AM
I'm not Treehugger, and I don't play him on TV, but I have a few thoughts on this. I've onyl eaten at the SB Inn once, so I can't speak to SB's overall level of high end food/service, but I can't say that what I've seen on the mountain is promising. I think the concessionaire strategy employed at Allyn's Lodge this year has been a disaster. The options are sugar (candy or waffle form) or a grumpy hot dog server with frozen drinks (who'da thunk that drinks would freeze when left outside at 3000' in Northern Vt in winter?). Look at the SB Racquet Club or whatever it's called. The place looks like a disaster and hasn't had a dime invested in it for years.


Agree on Allyn Lodge's shortcomings....could be a little gem of a place to stop in. Too bad. I always liked mid-mtn food/rest/bathroom spots.

And a SB health and raquet membership is part of the amenity package for Claybrook owners....so perhaps at the tail end of the base development projects that property will get a deserved and overdue make over. Could be a great little gem, but they would also need a better short term membership package system (incl. more reasonable $$$ requirements) to attract more bodies.

smootharc
10-12-2006, 09:50 AM
I noticed there was an open house last weekend at this house:

http://www.markolfdesigns.com/bridgehampton.htm

Anyone go ? There is a new, higher price than last Spring, when I think it was $875k.

Anyways, was just wondering how folks who know think the Valley real estate is holding up. I understand inventory is not as tight as has been the case in the last 3-4 years.

noski
10-12-2006, 10:13 AM
At one point in late August there were 34 houses on the market in the $300-$400m range. Last year at that time the number was about 11. I think the change in the market is resulting in houses getting priced more "realistically"- though still not exactly in the "affordable housing" range. I think buyers get the luxury of time, opportunity, and negotiation in the current market, and don't have to try and snatch something up immediately at whatever the asking price may be.

Lostone
10-12-2006, 10:24 AM
Word I get is there are a bunch of properties on the market, and they are staying there, longer.

I think that when the prices went up, a bunch of people decided to cash in.

And that number is too high. :roll:

As for the white elephant, no... I... forgot to go to the open house. :lol:

Tin Woodsman
10-12-2006, 12:06 PM
I saw the signs for the open house when I was going up to say hi to Brooke and the guys at Mountainside. I was pretty sure it would be the white elephant. I really can't understand what the builder was thinking.

Plowboy
10-12-2006, 01:59 PM
I saw a red Ferrari with 2 guys dressed for the 80's there. I think their names were Crockett and Tubbs. :shock: :lol: :roll: :wink:

Tin Woodsman
10-12-2006, 03:05 PM
I saw a red Ferrari with 2 guys dressed for the 80's there. I think their names were Crockett and Tubbs. :shock: :lol: :roll: :wink:

Was there Glenn Frey on the radio?

It's the politics of contraband, it's the smugglers blues......

ski_resort_observer
10-12-2006, 04:32 PM
At least it will blend in when we have several feet of the white stuff around.

Tin Woodsman
10-12-2006, 06:56 PM
At least it will blend in when we have several feet of the white stuff around.

Wait - this isn't Aspen.

ski_resort_observer
10-12-2006, 07:38 PM
I'm a hick Vermonter so I don't know nutin about any of that stuff! :lol:

smootharc
10-13-2006, 07:52 AM
I saw a red Ferrari with 2 guys dressed for the 80's there. I think their names were Crockett and Tubbs. :shock: :lol: :roll: :wink:

Was there Glenn Frey on the radio?

It's the politics of contraband, it's the smugglers blues......

Along with the Willie Nelson one, and the Ted Nugent one.

Tin Woodsman
10-13-2006, 12:18 PM
I saw a red Ferrari with 2 guys dressed for the 80's there. I think their names were Crockett and Tubbs. :shock: :lol: :roll: :wink:

Was there Glenn Frey on the radio?

It's the politics of contraband, it's the smugglers blues......

Along with the Willie Nelson one, and the Ted Nugent one.

Phil Collins...... not so much.

skiladi
10-14-2006, 12:59 PM
At least it will blend in when we have several feet of the white stuff around.

The first thing I would do is paint it a nice desert sand mauve and hang a Georgia O'keefe painting and cactus, lots and lots of CACTI! OOPS...wrong board. I meant to post on Taos.com. My bad. :P

Lostone
10-14-2006, 02:42 PM
Does this mean you are going to move it to New Mexico?

And.. and... Are you going to tell them? :shock: :lol:

random_ski_guy
10-21-2006, 08:16 AM
I received an email this week from sugarbush on the clay brook sales. looks like they have managed to sell a few more shares over the summer. most of the remaining shares are on the 1st and 2nd floor or don't have a lock out unit.

I don't know if they are doing this in other locales, but Win, John Egan and Doug Lewis are coming to Greenwich CT in early Nov to do a cocktail hr pitch. I haven't decided if I will attend. It would be nice to meet Win and hear the vision first hand though.

http://upload4.postimage.org/1447900/claybrooksalesoct206.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/1447900/photo_hosting.html)