RFID Tickets

[djd66]

I have been to many areas that have this technology - it works great.

I just read that Wachusett now has it. http://www.telegram.com/sports/20170125/shaun-sutner-skiers-can-now-take-electronic-rides

I wonder why Sugarbush has not invested in this system. Is the initial investment too much?

[Benski]

I am not a fan of rfid systems. Ticket scanners make the resort feel more human. To me it seems like this societies stupid obsession with wireless, kinda electronics with the slow inefficient wireless chargers and bluetooth for earbuds.

[shadyjay]

I am not a fan of rfid systems. Ticket scanners make the resort feel more human. To me it seems like this societies stupid obsession with wireless, kinda electronics with the slow inefficient wireless chargers and bluetooth for earbuds.


I have yet to visit a resort with an RFID system. My last trip off the mountain to ride in the past 2 years has been to Black, Loon, and Mt Snow, and all still employed ticket checkers.

The number of "gates" that would be required at Sugarbush for such a system would be pretty high. You'd need to cover all your "bases": Valley House, Bravo, Gate House, GMX, Sunny D, and Inverness, and possibly the Village Double. And also you'd have to hit Slide Brook on the Ellen side as well, since the Mt Ellen only passes would stop you there. And you'd also have to, I assume, staff at least one person at the gate to get those invalids out of the line somehow. I'm not sure how it all works, to be honest.

The point of the resort feeling more human is also a part of it. The ticket checkers are your first line of defense for such questions as "where's the best snow?" "is heaven's gate open?" "how do i get to Mt Ellen?" "Is there any beginner terrain off the top of Castlerock?" etc etc. I've always liked that about Sugarbush.

[Dblshot]

The initial investment would be high but would pay off in several years with savings on some ticket checkers salary and burden. Still need someone to man the gates and deal with issues. My issue with the scanners is when one pass won't scan and they hold up the line and empty chairs start going up. After a couple seconds just look at the pass and verify it like the old days

[djd66]

I am not a fan of rfid systems. Ticket scanners make the resort feel more human. To me it seems like this societies stupid obsession with wireless, kinda electronics with the slow inefficient wireless chargers and bluetooth for earbuds.

Personally - I like technology that makes things more efficient. I like my fast lane pass,... I do not miss the toll booths on the Mass Pike. I like my Iphone and Ipad - I don't miss going to the library. I could go on and on,.... I do enjoy to say hello to the ticket checkers,... my kids love Bogo - But it is a minor annoyance when the scanners don't work and you see empty chairs going up. I have been to other areas - and they work really well. As far as the investment - I have no idea what the cost is. But maybe they would not need to install gates at ALL chairs. They could install on just the busy ones. Some of the others chairs could be staffed by manual ticket checkers with a gun. Any investment in the hardware would be returned over time,... AND any money saved could be used to invest in more snow making.

[shadyjay]

The initial investment would be high but would pay off in several years with savings on some ticket checkers salary and burden. Still need someone to man the gates and deal with issues. My issue with the scanners is when one pass won't scan and they hold up the line and empty chairs start going up. After a couple seconds just look at the pass and verify it like the old days

Just looking at a pass and verifying it only works for the paper tickets. It doesn't tell you if a pass is inactive, hotlisted, etc. For instance, I have a collection of passes. I seem to get a different one each year as an employee. Just one of them is active. But you'd never know it until you scan them as they have no years listed on them. For someone else who may have had a pass from a previous year and doesn't this year, they could in theory put that pass on their jacket and if they don't get scanned, the ticket checker would never know that's a bad pass- if going by the look only.

When I used to check tickets (and still do, on occasion), if I got a bad pass, I'd try scanning it a couple times, then ask them to move outside the line for further instructions. I agree, we don't want to send empty chairs up, but at the same time, you can't let someone with an invalid pass get past the base of Bravo (or Valley House or Gate House or GMX). The old "I'll get it taken care of next time" doesn't work as they can easily disappear on the upper mtn, enjoying HG or the Rock all day for free, knowing they got past the base. That's just not fair to those who purchase passes or tickets.

[cdskier]

Just looking at a pass and verifying it only works for the paper tickets. It doesn't tell you if a pass is inactive, hotlisted, etc. For instance, I have a collection of passes. I seem to get a different one each year as an employee. Just one of them is active. But you'd never know it until you scan them as they have no years listed on them. For someone else who may have had a pass from a previous year and doesn't this year, they could in theory put that pass on their jacket and if they don't get scanned, the ticket checker would never know that's a bad pass- if going by the look only.


Very valid. I technically have 2 passes, but only one is active. Last year I fell on FIS and lost my pass (didn't realize it until I was going into the Glen House for a break). Once I realized it I figured there was little chance of finding it as I didn't even know exactly where I lost it (and there was a lot of powder on the bumps that day so figured it was buried anyway). Went down to the base and got a replacement. A little while later I'm loading on summit chair and see my pass sitting on the control panel. Someone found it and gave it to the lifities. I picked it up next time around as it still had the retractable pass holder attached (and in tact). Looking at the passes you wouldn't know one is valid and the other isn't.

Although fwiw, I've had several times where my pass wouldn't scan and the person just waves me through (not sure if that is because I've been through the line already a few times and they recognize me or if that person just does that anytime they have problems scanning).

[Benski]

I am also not sure mountains save money with RFID since the Chips cost more than paper tickets. Stowe charges you $5 for there RFID tickets presumable so people reuse there chips.

[Dblshot]

Just put the year on the passes like they used to. Good point on the cost of the chip

[Hawk]

RFID rules. It always works and makes the lift line move along. My sugarbush pass never works and it takes them several tries every time to get me through. I have done RFID at Stowe, Jay, Snowbird, Big Sky, everywhere and it is always a pleasure. But Sugarbush will never implement it because it will cost them too much up front. I have asked for this many time and I always get the same answer. The have already invested in the system they have.

[winjr]

RFID rules. It always works and makes the lift line move along. My sugarbush pass never works and it takes them several tries every time to get me through. I have done RFID at Stowe, Jay, Snowbird, Big Sky, everywhere and it is always a pleasure. But Sugarbush will never implement it because it will cost them too much up front. I have asked for this many time and I always get the same answer. The have already invested in the system they have.

Hawk,
If your pass is not working I would suggest you get a new one. The bar codes can scratch and cause your pass to not scan well. Also if you keep it is in a plastic container moisture can cause it not to scan well either. The batteries can drain too and wi;; then need to be switched for another and recharged.

As far as rfid you are correct we were an early adopter of RTP's scanning system, and we felt capex dollars were better spent elsewhere since the system worked. However, at some point in the not too distant future we will likely make the transition to rfid but it it a decision that needs to be made with other systems we may replace so they integrate. It does save some labor costs but more importantly can offer a number of positive guest service add-ones.

[brave fellow]

I like the RFID systems. However, I have only seen the kind with turnstyle gates.

What I think would work well at Sugarbush is a wand for the lifties to scan passes with just like they do today. Many new ski jackets have a zipper pocked on the forearm/wrist area for RFID type tickets. You just tell the liftie to scan your arm with his wand. I don't need a pass dangling from my pants that I then fiddle with to present to the liftie. It's way easier to just present my arm and have him/her tap it.

I do think though, there are better places to put the mountains money right now. And the few times I have been to Stowe, that $5 just for the card is hard to swallow when I'm paying $100 for the ticket already.

The barcode scanning system also adds some security for season passes because of the photo on it. It gives the lifties the chance to make sure the photo is at least close to the person wearing the pass.

[Benski]

The barcode scanning system also adds some security for season passes because of the photo on it. It gives the lifties the chance to make sure the photo is at least close to the person wearing the pass.

With RFID a 45 year old can use a children pass.

[cdskier]

With RFID a 45 year old can use a children pass.

Not really...many systems will show a photo of the passholder when the RFID pass is scanned. Some of the gate systems even use biometrics (height, build, etc) to determine whether the the person using the pass is the right person before allowing them through. Some systems even for day tickets will work that way. The first time through the system "measures" you and then all subsequent passes through need to roughly match what it recorded the first time. That prevents someone from sharing or selling/giving away a day ticket after they are done using it.

[Sugarbushskier9]

Hawk,

As far as rfid you are correct we were an early adopter of RTP's scanning system, and we felt capex dollars were better spent elsewhere since the system worked. However, at some point in the not too distant future we will likely make the transition to rfid but it it a decision that needs to be made with other systems we may replace so they integrate. It does save some labor costs but more importantly can offer a number of positive guest service add-ones.

That's good to hear Win. I really love the RFID that they have at Stowe and Jay as it is very efficient and no one is fumbling to find a pass or scan it like you are at the checkout lane at your grocery store. I think it would work great at Sugarbush. The human element is there as the gate employee at each lift is there answering questions, saying how's your day going, stuff like that. I would assume it is a huge capital investment up front because you need to overhaul the entire ticketing process, from the online store straight through the ticket counters to the lift check point.

I have to imagine the biggest plus of the system is offering more direct-to-lift products once someone has that RFID card in their possession.

[Sugarbushskier9]

I am not a fan of rfid systems. Ticket scanners make the resort feel more human. To me it seems like this societies stupid obsession with wireless, kinda electronics with the slow inefficient wireless chargers and bluetooth for earbuds.

Regarding the human element, you still have a person monitoring the RFID gate, standing there talking to you, asking you how your day is going... iin fact that person is often more freed up to be human and engaging because he/she is not struggling to find your bar code and scan it. If all is going smoothly through the gate I always see those people right there at the gate talking and joking with everyone at stowe and when i went to jay.

[Orca]

Scanning is a nuisance. You have to fish out your pass to present it, the scan guns usually take a few tries to read the barcode, and the scan personnel gum up the lines (and mostly add no particular warmth or friendliness to the place). It annoys me EVERY time I have my ticket scanned and I think paying scanners is possibly the dumbest possible use of SB resources.

[winjr]

Scanning is a nuisance. You have to fish out your pass to present it, the scan guns usually take a few tries to read the barcode, and the scan personnel gum up the lines (and mostly add no particular warmth or friendliness to the place). It annoys me EVERY time I have my ticket scanned and I think paying scanners is possibly the dumbest possible use of SB resources.

With the amount of criticism that you voice Orca, this may not be the mountain for you. Stowe may indeed be a place you might enjoy more.

[Orca]

With the amount of criticism that you voice Orca, this may not be the mountain for you. Stowe may indeed be a place you might enjoy more.

Apparently having the temerity to express a few opinions disapproving of SB managerial decisions gets you an invitation to leave the place from the big man himself. Good grief.

You should know that honest feedback is valuable information, even if it is unfavorable or hard to hear. Feedback is useless if it is all fawning and truckling. You don't have to answer to any of it, but you ought to listen to all voices to distill the sense of the people who are your patrons. We posters here on SkiMRV are patrons who care about SB, we are part of the community, we value the place.

[Hawk]

I missed this. LOLOLOLOLOL Seriously dude that is your opinion? Over the last 3 weeks I have been at all resorts with RFID and it is seriously way easier and better. What it does is gets people verified prior to lining up to get on the lift. You never see empty chairs or empty seats. My sugarbush pass never works. I can't tell you how many times my group has to wait for me in line. I am going to try new media again to see if it gets fixed. Hey even the lifties say those scanners suck.


I am not a fan of rfid systems. Ticket scanners make the resort feel more human. To me it seems like this societies stupid obsession with wireless, kinda electronics with the slow inefficient wireless chargers and bluetooth for earbuds.

[southvillager]

With the amount of criticism that you voice Orca, this may not be the mountain for you. Stowe may indeed be a place you might enjoy more.

Wow. Maybe try counting to ten next time.

[winjr]

Wow. Maybe try counting to ten next time.

My point to Orca was this. We appreciate all feedback which is why I read and respond to this blog. But it is impossible to be all things to all people. At some point, one may find that other offers something they like better than we can offer. That is the beauty of the free market and competition. We can just try to provide what we think the majority of our guest's value and when we get it wrong adjust. One also has to prioritize improvements.

[jimmck]

The scanning isn't too much of a hassle. The employees that are scanning are far enough ahead of where the lifts load that scanning "gotchas" don't seem to slow up the lift, at least that's my opinion/observation. As a plus, the employees that scan passes/tickets actually engage with me. Real human to human interaction. I like that.

My RFID data point is just that, A data point. Wachusett started using RFID passes this season. There is LESS engagement from the lift employees. Generally they're focused on loading the chairs (a good thing) and manning the RFID "terminal" ( iPad or tablet) and not engaging the customers unless there is an issue with the RFID gate. I've seen countless times where 1 customer cannot get through the gate, and the line completely stops, leading to empty chairs. It's a new system, and I expect growing pains. I just thought those faults would have been worked out by now.

So, I don't mind the scanners and I really enjoy the employees asking how my day is going.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[cdskier]

In terms of engagement from lifties...it depends entirely on the lifty in my opinion and has nothing do with scanning. I routinely get more engagement from the lifties on HG than I do from many of the scanners on Bravo. RFID really should have little to no impact on interaction the more I think about it.

As for criticism and win's comments to Orca, there's a difference between constructive criticism vs what seems to be non-stop negativity about everything. Sure Orca has some valid points (i.e. the snowmaking one in the other thread), but perhaps it is just the way he words things sometimes that rubs people the wrong way (i.e. saying paying scanners is a dumb use of resources).

[BarkingDog]

My sugarbush pass never works. I can't tell you how many times my group has to wait for me in line. I am going to try new media again to see if it gets fixed. Hey even the lifties say those scanners suck.

This happens to me all the time. The lift attendant tries scanning and after about 10 seconds, I say "Beep!" and they let me go through. Probably 25% of the time.

I also don't think that the pass office is too keen on giving out a new pass card to see if that works. I could be wrong. Here's my experience with them. I lost a pass on a run through the woods a couple of years ago. It broke off. When I went to the pass office to get a new one, I felt like I was getting a hassle about it. It was unreasonable for me to trace my tracks back up through the woods to find it and going to the pass office was my only option. Not too sure why I got such a hassle or if that's standard practice to try to make people more responsible about caring for their pass. Now I am afraid of the people in the pass office ;)

I also agree that the team at HG are always very personable.

[cdskier]

I also don't think that the pass office is too keen on giving out a new pass card to see if that works. I could be wrong. Here's my experience with them. I lost a pass on a run through the woods a couple of years ago. It broke off. When I went to the pass office to get a new one, I felt like I was getting a hassle about it. It was unreasonable for me to trace my tracks back up through the woods to find it and going to the pass office was my only option. Not too sure why I got such a hassle or if that's standard practice to try to make people more responsible about caring for their pass. Now I am afraid of the people in the pass office ;)


My experience when I lost my pass (happened at ME last year) was extremely smooth. They gave me a new pass no questions asked. I don't know why, but I was actually expecting it to be more of a hassle.

[brave fellow]

As for criticism and win's comments to Orca, there's a difference between constructive criticism vs what seems to be non-stop negativity about everything. Sure Orca has some valid points (i.e. the snowmaking one in the other thread), but perhaps it is just the way he words things sometimes that rubs people the wrong way (i.e. saying paying scanners is a dumb use of resources).

^this^
Seriously, some people aren't happy unless they are unhappy. I remember 2 seasons ago this forum became the complaints department for the CRP because it had no mountain view and the bar was the wrong shape and the lighting was not at the right point of the warmth scale.

Orca, if you want to leave, buh-bye. I love SB, warts and all. No mountain is perfect. For fuck's sake, THE WORST DAY AT THE MOUNTAIN IS STILL BETTER THAN THE BEST DAY AT WORK!

[Benski]

The mountain should try larger bar codes or QR codes. Mt snow has large QR codes on there tickets and they scan really easily.

[cdskier]

The mountain should try larger bar codes or QR codes. Mt snow has large QR codes on there tickets and they scan really easily.

It makes no sense to even think about investing any additional money in a bar code type system. If you're going to invest money in anything ticket related, it should be rfid at this point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[djd66]

The mountain should try larger bar codes or QR codes. Mt snow has large QR codes on there tickets and they scan really easily.

Benski- have you ever been to an area that has RFID PASSES?
It is so much better than the gun technology. Do the guns work? Yeah most of the time. But plenty of times they are not scanning for any number of reasons. I have no idea what the investment is for the system, but it is far superior than the current system. There will still be someone monitoring people going through the gates, so there will still be a Human element. But my guess is - you will not see empty chairs going up b/c people can't get their tickets scanned.

[muddy_hollow]

What's the big deal RFID Vs hand scanners? It's such a minor issue to gripe about. Helping some kid with a part time job and supporting the community is great.

Why automate to save 2 minutes per run?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pinnoke]

Just spent first day of several upcoming at Big Sky. Same system as Sugarbush. Nothing negatively affected. Great day!

[arc1]

SB really needs to get on board with it. Lines flow so much better, no empty chairs, etc.
Maybe more importantly, this year, especially lately, I've found the folks manning the guns to be a really poor reflection on the mtn. Not only barely acknowledging people, but seem surly and bitter. Not a good customer interface at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Northerner]

RFID is the way to go. I think there is some misunderstanding, just because you have an RFID card doesn't mean that there are no humans scanning them, especially at the bottom lifts. There is usually still human interaction making sure you are not a 40 year old trying to use a kids' pass.

What I love about the card is that you can refill it so easily, if you decide to ski another day or come back for another weekend. You can usually pay for your lift ticket online and be ready to ski the second you get to the base of the hill. No ticket booth, line, etc.