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HowieT2
03-21-2016, 04:13 PM
So, Ive been thinking, and I know I shouldnt do too much of that, but FIS is a signature trail at Mt Ellen and they make snow on it and groom it, but most of the time, it really kind of sucks despite the effort. Sure, there are days when the snow is soft and the bumps are just right, but couldnt it be better. Maybe if it were narrower or split in two with a section of trees in the middle.
what says you all?

Dblshot
03-21-2016, 04:34 PM
It is rarely groomed, the past couple weeks is the most i remember it being groomed in 20 years. i think some really wet snow got made and it turned into a glacier. I like skiing it but i always do Rim Run first and shoot up the bottom and check it out. Just like looking up Steins from Bravo. Trees in the middle will get destroyed by snowmaking. Maybe cut some lines in the trees further down Upper Rim Run, it still pretty steep but shorter.

Another trail to skiers right of Black Diamond would be sweet but i think that is forest service land up there.

Benski
03-21-2016, 06:48 PM
FIS could definitely be made narrower since most of sugarbush's snowmaking trials are narrower than FIS. Since I think FIS still has old guns which probably are going to be replaced soon, they could be replaced with guns that are further to the left and trees could be planted on the right side of the guns. I would space the trees enough that this area of reclaimed forest becomes a glade. I like the idea of adding a trail to the right of black diamond. I would prefer a narrow trial similar to Rumble. It would probably be a good idea to combine these changes and propose the trial narrowing as a tradeoffs.

I would also be for narrowing upper ripcord and putting a tree island on snowball on the left at the headwall, where its a double fall line. I would like to know why the section of organ grinder above heavens gate has not grown in. It seems pretty useless and not good for the environment.

The green line is the boundary of the national forest.

Ride Delaware ?
03-22-2016, 08:29 AM
Are you sure of the accuracy of that line? Even when the National Forest had a sign on the lift tower, it was at tower 8, which is the intersection of Rim Run and Looking Good. Traditional thinking has been everything above Rim Run is National Forest, while everything below is Sugarbush.

southvillager
03-22-2016, 09:06 AM
Aren't all steep trails with snowmaking at Sugarbush unskiable and frozen solid 80% of the time? I'm thinking Steins, Organgrinder, Ripcord, even Waterfall. Even after grooming, they are toast by 10AM. It makes no sense to me. Is it like that elsewhere?

I have no knowledge of grooming technique, but the grooming seems superficial compared to other hills, like they are not going deep enough. There is much more deep and loose snow on groomed steeps at other places I ski.

Ride Delaware ?
03-22-2016, 09:57 PM
That line looks pretty correct after looking on Google maps. Can anyone confirm this, as I have heard from many sources that it begins at the bottom of Black Diamond up. Was there a land swap here? Some type of agreement? It's hard to believe all my sources were off.

Benski
03-22-2016, 10:34 PM
That line looks pretty correct after looking on Google maps. Can anyone confirm this, as I have heard from many sources that it begins at the bottom of Black Diamond up. Was there a land swap here? Some type of agreement? It's hard to believe all my sources were off.

Factcheck in google earth with google maps is not a fact check.

cdskier
03-22-2016, 11:28 PM
This was the boundary back in 2008 supposedly. The purple box is where Sugarbush has a Special Use Permit for the USFS land at the top of ME.
309

In terms of changes to FIS, does anyone know how easy it would even be to attempt to grow new trees on FIS? That elevation and exposure would be pretty tough on new vegetation, especially in the middle of the trail to split it in two. I don't mind FIS the way it is. At times it skies well. The width of the trail adds to the character in my opinion.

Adding a new trail to the right of Black Diamond would be interesting though and at one time that was an idea that was around. It would be nice to have another option off the top of ME. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to get approval for that though these days...

Ride Delaware ?
03-22-2016, 11:28 PM
Factcheck in google earth with google maps is not a fact check.
I'm not following, unless you're quoting the sources you cross referenced. I know maps isn't perfect, but it at least coincides with yours. Are we speaking the same thing?

WWF-VT
03-23-2016, 09:05 AM
I would also be for narrowing upper ripcord and putting a tree island on snowball on the left at the headwall, where its a double fall line.

"Headwall" and snowball should not be used in the same sentence

WWF-VT
03-23-2016, 09:09 AM
Aren't all steep trails with snowmaking at Sugarbush unskiable and frozen solid 80% of the time? I'm thinking Steins, Organgrinder, Ripcord, even Waterfall. Even after grooming, they are toast by 10AM. It makes no sense to me. Is it like that elsewhere?



80% might be a little bit high but you aren't too far off in your estimate

Benski
03-23-2016, 10:21 AM
I'm not following, unless you're quoting the sources you cross referenced. I know maps isn't perfect, but it at least coincides with yours. Are we speaking the same thing?

They were both made by google therefore they both probably have the same mistakes.

HowieT2
03-23-2016, 02:24 PM
This was the boundary back in 2008 supposedly. The purple box is where Sugarbush has a Special Use Permit for the USFS land at the top of ME.
309

In terms of changes to FIS, does anyone know how easy it would even be to attempt to grow new trees on FIS? That elevation and exposure would be pretty tough on new vegetation, especially in the middle of the trail to split it in two. I don't mind FIS the way it is. At times it skies well. The width of the trail adds to the character in my opinion.

Adding a new trail to the right of Black Diamond would be interesting though and at one time that was an idea that was around. It would be nice to have another option off the top of ME. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to get approval for that though these days...

I'm no arborist, but there are trees at that elevation, so I would think, if you plant them, they will grow. I just think the trail is unnecessarily wide. narrow it down with some trees and maybe the snow doesnt get so damned icy and boiler plate.

agree that a trail to right of black diamond would be a great addition.

dustyroads
03-23-2016, 03:36 PM
I'm no arborist, but there are trees at that elevation, so I would think, if you plant them, they will grow. I just think the trail is unnecessarily wide. narrow it down with some trees and maybe the snow doesnt get so damned icy and boiler plate.

agree that a trail to right of black diamond would be a great addition.


One thing I love about skiing in British Columbia was the steep slopes with nicely spaced pine trees. Although, they had the powder to make it special.

HowieT2
03-23-2016, 07:21 PM
One thing I love about skiing in British Columbia was the steep slopes with nicely spaced pine trees. Although, they had the powder to make it special.

Yeah, those trees out there are perfectly spaced. Like someone intentionally set them up for skiing.
About to book cat skiing at Valhalla for next year.

ducky
03-24-2016, 07:03 PM
Maybe it will be groomed this last weekend?

ThinkSno
03-24-2016, 09:45 PM
How about Win installs a magic carpet right up the middle for the whiNY skiers?

Benski
03-24-2016, 10:08 PM
How about Win installs a magic carpet right up the middle for the whiNY skiers?

You are the whiniest one in this thread.

ThinkSno
03-24-2016, 10:16 PM
You are the whiniest one in this thread.

Really, how do you figure that?

I skied FIS last Friday & didn't complain.

In fact I spoke with Win out on the hill & commended him on a fine job this season.

ThinkSno
03-24-2016, 10:26 PM
But sure, let's plant trees on FIS, and then close the trail for the next 10 years while they mature.

HowieT2
03-25-2016, 06:18 AM
But sure, let's plant trees on FIS, and then close the trail for the next 10 years while they mature.

Relax, man. Just talking about some stuff. No need to get your panties in a bunch. And who said anything about closing the trail for a decade?

cdskier
03-25-2016, 08:36 AM
And who said anything about closing the trail for a decade?

You wouldn't necessarily need to close the trail, but you would probably need to rope off an area around the trees while they grow in for at least a few years to help protect them when they are young.

djd66
03-25-2016, 12:28 PM
I'm already excited about next year,.. i think we are going to get so much snow - all the trees will be covered and the place will be one big giant snow field :)

HowieT2
03-28-2016, 07:51 AM
ironically, had the best bump runs of the season on FIS yesterday. Good line skiers left.

Ride Delaware ?
03-28-2016, 11:21 PM
FIS progressed throughout the day on Sunday. Early on, only the far skiers left bump line was soft enough to ski due to the sun exposure. Throughout the day it progressed until the sun softened to about the halfway mark. It was really soft and quite fun. It's a shame it ended as soon as it hit spring form, but now we have Stein's to enjoy.

pcampbell
04-04-2016, 05:15 PM
Did they re-open Mt Ellen this past weekend? I feel like I read they were doing that but then couldn't find any info on it.

Wednesday march 30 - Was a beautiful day but the snow was very firm in the morning. Best view around.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1476/25863038480_860f4a11be_b.jpg

cdskier
04-04-2016, 05:33 PM
Did they re-open Mt Ellen this past weekend? I feel like I read they were doing that but then couldn't find any info on it.

If they did it was the best kept secret ever and private invite only!

pcampbell
04-04-2016, 05:57 PM
If they did it was the best kept secret ever and private invite only!


haha
maybe i was looking at a page from last year

pcampbell
04-05-2016, 12:45 PM
Be careful if you go skinning

It's all good (Dust on chunky ice) til the end of Cruiser.

Then dust on rocks and dirt and gravel below cruiser.