Welcome to the 2014/2015 Season

[win]

Welcome to our new winter season. We will be opening tomorrow for skiing. We were not quite ready today for a passholder appreciation day but you will find some nice skiing and riding tomorrow. I just took a run and was pleased with what our new HKD's put out. Tomorrow Downspout all the way down will be groomed through Coffee Run and Lower Organgrinder will have some nice fresh manmade powder. The first turns especially will be sweet.

Let me preempt some discussion about why we are only skiing from mid-mountain down tomorrow. The Heaven's Gate lift is still a couple of days away from being ready for public use.
As for inspection about two weeks ago. it was running beautifully both on the electric motor and the auxiliary diesel motor, Every 7 years a lift is required to do a load test unless major system changes have been made and then it has to be done at that point before the Tram authority will clear it for public use. We had not had a load test of Heaven's Gate for several years. When the inspector from the Tram Authority was here it ran perfectly on the electric motor but when we switched it to diesel it ran but just a bit slower that the code requires, so it did not pass. After eliminating all the other possibilities we called in Cummins Engine to take the auxiliary motor apart.. Unfortunately, their work schedule did allow them to get here for several days. They discovered that the fuel injection system was not working properly so they took it back to their shop to fix it. Unfortunately, the part the required to complete the job was not in any East Coast locations so they had to track one down out West and have in shipped to them in Springfield, MA and they couldn't get it up here in time for to get it installed and then inspected by tomorrow morning. We expect Cummins will have it installed in a day or two and then we have to get the Vermont Tram inspector back to do the load test again. Not sure he is willing to to it on a weekend but we will try. Then it should be in great shape for the season.

Thus, we will not be skiing Upper Jester but we changed the snowmaking priority to Lower Grinder to have that ready by tomorrow morning.

Despite this I think you will enjoy the first day, and I look forward to a great season.

[HowieT2]

Welcome to our new winter season. We will be opening tomorrow for skiing. We were not quite ready today for a passholder appreciation day but you will find some nice skiing and riding tomorrow. I just took a run and was pleased with what our new HKD's put out. Tomorrow Downspout all the way down will be groomed through Coffee Run and Lower Organgrinder will have some nice fresh manmade powder. The first turns especially will be sweet.

Let me preempt some discussion about why we are only skiing from mid-mountain down tomorrow. The Heaven's Gate lift is still a couple of days away from being ready for public use.
As for inspection about two weeks ago. it was running beautifully both on the electric motor and the auxiliary diesel motor, Every 7 years a lift is required to do a load test unless major system changes have been made and then it has to be done at that point before the Tram authority will clear it for public use. We had not had a load test of Heaven's Gate for several years. When the inspector from the Tram Authority was here it ran perfectly on the electric motor but when we switched it to diesel it ran but just a bit slower that the code requires, so it did not pass. After eliminating all the other possibilities we called in Cummins Engine to take the auxiliary motor apart.. Unfortunately, their work schedule did allow them to get here for several days. They discovered that the fuel injection system was not working properly so they took it back to their shop to fix it. Unfortunately, the part the required to complete the job was not in any East Coast locations so they had to track one down out West and have in shipped to them in Springfield, MA and they couldn't get it up here in time for to get it installed and then inspected by tomorrow morning. We expect Cummins will have it installed in a day or two and then we have to get the Vermont Tram inspector back to do the load test again. Not sure he is willing to to it on a weekend but we will try. Then it should be in great shape for the season.

Thus, we will not be skiing Upper Jester but we changed the snowmaking priority to Lower Grinder to have that ready by tomorrow morning.

Despite this I think you will enjoy the first day, and I look forward to a great season.

Thanks Win. Appreciate the info. Welcome back. and here's to a big big winter for all and much happiness all around.

Care to share how many (few?) early ups passes were sold????

[ThinkSno]

Yes, thanks for the update.

Question-- if it is a known fact that every 7 years (or when major changes are made) this test is to be performed, why did the inspection wait until 2 weeks before the start of the season, especially after having so many lift problems last season?

[win]

Yes, thanks for the update.

Question-- if it is a known fact that every 7 years (or when major changes are made) this test is to be performed, why did the inspection wait until 2 weeks before the start of the season, especially after having so many lift problems last season?



Because this is when Sky Trac finished their work and we could get the inspection scheduled.

[sglatham]

Thanks for the insight Win. It's only too typical of the challenges of the ski business that efforts to upgrade and improve a lifts performance end up causing a delay in its opening. It's also typical of bloggers - me included - to jump to conclusions without all the facts. Best of luck for a record season.

[Go Figure]

I look at it this way, with a $73 ticket for 1 1/2 ways down Saturday will be a pass holders day as no one in their right mind would pay that much.

[Dblshot]

Trail report showing no snowmaking at South. Please tell me that's not true with the great temps right now.

[Njski]

While it seems like Win has accepted the current circumstances as a valid excuse for no TTB skiing, one look at Facebook, AZ, and SJ would tell me that the public has not.
There is some serious damage control that needs to be done, starting with the $73 lift ticket. A superior product is out there for a lower price. That is economics 101, and I know SB is smarter than that.

[southvillager]

We are doing Killington tomorrow, $61 for top to bottom, 3 ways down, plus extras at the top. Looks like 5 lifts operating. Not bad.

[Zeke]

While it seems like Win has accepted the current circumstances as a valid excuse for no TTB skiing, one look at Facebook, AZ, and SJ would tell me that the public has not.



The problem is the "public that has not" is outnumbered by many that just don't care unless it was a vacation week. After looking on FB I saw 2-3 comments that were negative (unless they are deleting them). Win and SB know the die hards can get screwed over but will still go back for more, the dynamics are comparable to an abusive relationship.

[ahm]

SR has 4 lifts, w/6 or 7 distinct routes down (Cascades, punch, monday morning, right stuff, lazy river, am express, risky biz, etc) and the coverage is excellent with all lifts that have snow cover operating all for 49$ with 10$ off if you contribute to the foodbank drive. The snow quality yesterday was quite good. I am sure the bush will have the lift fixed sometime by the Tgiving weekend and maybe the rain on Monday will not hamper the install and additional snowmaking that will be laid down in support of the wknd skiers

[Hawk]

Google Killington 2 for 1 and you will find that all you need to do is sign up for the weekly blog and you get a 2 for 1 ticket and your cost is now $32 a day. You can also do this with multiple email addresses and get more 2 for 1's. Conditions today were outstanding and there were no lift lines with 5 lifts running including the superstar quad.

We are doing Killington tomorrow, $61 for top to bottom, 3 ways down, plus extras at the top. Looks like 5 lifts operating. Not bad.

[Zeke]

Google Killington 2 for 1 and you will find that all you need to do is sign up for the weekly blog and you get a 2 for 1 ticket and your cost is now $32 a day. You can also do this with multiple email addresses and get more 2 for 1's. Conditions today were outstanding and there were no lift lines with 5 lifts running including the superstar quad.

What was up with all the lift issues? K1 was down a while around lunch, rescue off Snowdon Quad, and other issues.

Surprised they offered an apology. Maybe some places should take note :roll:

[Hawk]

Not sure but we did lunch and when we cam out it was up again. Got plenty of runs in and there were many sugarbush people down there.

[Orca]

FYI, Costco has no-blackout, fully-transferrable tickets to Killington for sale. Three tix for $189.99 -- that is $63.33 per ticket. If you buy in Nashua or other NH location, there is no sales tax.
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[win]

We had a very good opening day. Mostly SP holders as is the norm this time of year and more than last year. The Quad Pack at $219 is $54.75 per day and they were used yesterday.

[gostan]

Warm temperatures for the second day of the season produced much softer conditions on what was open than yesterday's colder and icy Domino Chutes experience. If only my quads could have kept going all day today. Very happy to already have 2 more days in than last year.

[HowieT2]

Warm temperatures for the second day of the season produced much softer conditions on what was open than yesterday's colder and icy Domino Chutes experience. If only my quads could have kept going all day today. Very happy to already have 2 more days in than last year.

Good to hear! Gonna be a big big winter. U deserve it.

[Orca]

Hi, Win. Really glad to have you as a participant in the conversation!

Quad packs are great and your endeavors to grow the SB ski community are terrific. Thank you for investing in this fabulous thing that so many of us love. Sometimes our passion and love for SB clouds the fundamental perspective that you run a business — you do, and there are attendant economic realities that we consumers don't always fully appreciate.

I posted the K Costco offering as an option for consumers and as comparative alternative product for the greater ski community. Your point that Quad packs are a substantial value is appreciated. Maybe my posting raises questions about how to extend the reach of the SB product through new sales outlets. If so, all the better.

We here love Sugarbush as you do, but there are concerns that we consumers might reasonably bring up for discussion. The first, I’d venture is a lack of capital investment in the ski area's physical plant as compared to the other “bigs” in the northern New England states.

The two biggest areas each of Maine (SR and SL), New Hampshire (Loon and Cannon), and Vermont (K and Stowe) have installed 15 lifts since the the installation of the last new SB lift, the GMX in 2002-3. (Sorry, but the GMVS T-bar doesn't count.) Over half these lifts are high-speed offerings. That is an average of 2. 5 lifts per area. SB is just simply behind and the product shows it.

When folks get the sense that residential real estate is the focus, how can you blame them? We hear lots about Clay Brook and Rice Brook and now Gadd Brook, but where are the capital improvements that are available to the 99%? Maybe that is why people get the the notion that your are a real estate developer running a ski area as its catalyst.

Regardless, you run a business that is of keen interest to us devotees of the Mad River valley and its natural graces. Please know that we want the best for SB and vehemently root for the success of SB through your agency.

Count as an asset how much people care about your operation and your product.

Hoping for an AMAZING 2014-15 ski season!!!

[win]

Hi Orca

My reply did not post so I will try again. Thanks for you comments. Let me clarify one thing about real estate. 40 EB-5 individuals invested $20 million in Sugarbush. this was used primarily for improvements in the mountain. Funds we used to the expansion of the Gatehouse, the Farmhouse, the School House, snowmaking improvements and numerous other capital expenditures these past seven years. A portion was used to pay off the balance of the construction mortgage on Clay Brook. Any and all profits from the sale of CB units and Rice Brook and Gadd Brook go to the EB-5 investors and we received nothing until the 40 investors are paid. So far 10 of the 40 have been redeemed and we have a moral obligations to get them as much of their money as possible. They are at risk and the real estate market as you know was dead after 2007/2008 so they have been patiently awaiting a return.

As I have mentioned in previous communications since purchasing the resorts we have invested over $50 of equity in the resort. This does include the new GMVS express and Castlerock Chair but no the T-Bar. GMVS paid for that. In the past five years alone over $ 5million was invested in snowmaking improvements. Some like the new 351 guns are visible put new pipe like that from the Mad River Pond up the access road and from Van Loon to Mount Ellen and the new piple up Snowball and Spring Fling are not but equally important as are rebuilds of the motors and pumps. Out snowmaking system is in excellent shape now after years of deferred maintenance.

As far as the lift go, the $1.1 million we invested this summer has essentially rebuilt the electric systems at Heaven's Gate and Northridge as well as putting new drives in them and new communication lines. The new lift we are planning for is to replace Valley House and we are proceeding with the permitting of that.

Hope this helps. Have a great winter.

[gostan]

Happy day before Thanksgiving Storm. Just not quite far enough north to get the brunt of this storm.

[win]

Our guy this morning was savaing 5-8. Hopefully more! But cold temperatures are returning.

[cmoore]

This is a good resource... http://www.weather.gov/btv/stormtotalsnow

[Hawk]

Good to see that lift and trail report showing snowmaking on Upper Jester and Upper Organgrinder this morning. It will be good to ski something a little steeper this weekend. Nice 3 day stint coming up.

[cmoore]

very nice to see

[phin]

woot! blowin' snow over at north?

web cams are looking a lot better over the past 2 hours.

[win]

4" at my office at 3:30pm. Hoping to get 8-10" or possibly more by morning. If we do Upper organgrinder should be skiing. Will be blowing all night.

At ME we are blowing on FIS and Rim Run down past the fllats. A bit too warm to go lower until maybe Thrusday night or Friday.

[Tin Woodsman]

very nice to see

nice to see them hitting OG and Jester hard simultaneously. IIRC, that has been difficult for them in the past.

[HowieT2]

Tomorrow is going to be a heck of a day. Enjoy fellas. Happy holidays.

[HowieT2]

How much is down?

[Benski]

Is the snow dense. The snow falling in the southern berkshires is so thick 6 inches was sufficient to make a base.

[Ride Delaware ?]

It's denser snow but it isn't soaking wet. I would say there is at least 10" to a foot and possibly more. Production was pretty decent on OG today. The only rough spot was at the bottom where OG meets Downspout. They put several guns on there around noon. Lower OG bumps were very firm this morning, but were starting to ski nicely by the end of the day with the natural. Should be a great weekend.

[gostan]

This mornings early mountain ski report is showing a foot at the base. They do not yet have storm totals for upper mountain. I will try to be up early tomorrow after celebrating Thanksgiving with our 18 guests down in the lowlands west of Boston. A wonderful Thanksgiving to all here, there and everywhere!

[Hawk]

See you tomorrow Stan. There also may be a bit more snow tonight they are saying. From all accounts via some "soft" sampling, Upper OG is in great shape as of late yesterday. ;-)

[HowieT2]

I'm stuck at the inlaws until after an early dinner. Save something for me for tomorrow.

[Dblshot]

It was nice to be skiing today but so much ice!? Skied for several hours all over and not a snowmaker on the hill to be found. One gun dry the next one so wet and on the only route down from DS and HG during the day? Quality checks and gun runs would be nice.

[Benski]

I saw some snowmakers on gondolier. They are putting so much snow on that trail it looks like it will be ready tomorrow. I found the conditions on jester to be great considering how much traffic it got and organ grinder to be fine other then the oddly shaped moguls and annoying wales.

[WWF-VT]

Lower OG is an icy mess and overdue to be groomed

[angler]

Lower OG is an icy mess and overdue to be groomed

what else is new?

[shadyjay]

Turns today should be real nice. Guns were shut off on Lower DS/Lower Jester/Coffee Run shortly after midnight and it was groomed out early this morning. Most of Lower OG ran throughout the night and is still lit as of now. Probably won't be groomed just yet... it needed another dosing to sustain it through the upcoming "brief" warmup and the amount of snow we had on it previously wasn't enough to permit grooming. I suspect soon enough it will be groomed, but should be fun today. Domino Chute also saw some love last night. Gondolier is still some time from opening but the snow is definitely piling up. Same goes for First Time.

All for now.... it's almost 9am and almost my bedtime!

[southvillager]

We skied Saturday. We were late to the game, we got on the lift at 10:00. We took a run down Downspout, it was already skied off and terrifying, with sheets of ice separated by small piles of skiable snow here and there. Went right up to Heavens Gate, and did a few laps on Upper Jester which was in nice shape as usual, only one large ice patch midway. Beautiful and sunny and fun. But each trip on Downspout to get to the HG chair was harrowing. They seemed to be trying to get the guns going on Downspout, and some of the guns were making snow on the upper section, which helped a little. With nearly every skier on every run being funneled into that stretch of DS, it was a disaster, no fun.

We also did two runs on lower Organgrinder which was in nice shape, lots of bumps and snow. Guns going strong. Really fun. The little trip down Domino chute was a nightmare, typical dust on crust, skied off sheets of ice. Upper Organgrinder looked awesome, but our crew was not up to the challenge, but we heard many positive comments from others.

Service in CR Pub was good. The menu is improved. The food was better overall. Nachos were unimpressive. Prices are up a bit.

No lift problems that I was aware of.

Bottom line...it is no better or worse than last year.

[win]

Yes. Downspout is rough this time of year until more terrain gets open. Both Upper and Lower Grinder skied well. Shady Jay covered why it is not yet groomed. We have a bit of a roller coaster this week, but it doesn't look like we will lose a lot of what we have made. Our next move is over to Snowball and Spring Fling. With the new 10" diameter snowmaking pipe and the new HKD towers these trails will come in really fast so we hope you will be enjoying them next weekend.

[Hawk]

Conditions were as expected for this time of year. Not a lot they can do when the temps swing and we have a few rain days in between. Not a bad job by the snowmakers so I rate the skiing as pretty good. I took some time to go around and check the consistency of the snow coming out of the new guns. They do crank out a good amount of snow but it still seems that they are having issues with getting the mix right as there were random guns still very wet and others not so bad. Not sure of the solution there.

These new guns are supposed to use less air which I will take that as word. Some of us equated that to mean that they would have more capacity to use more guns. But I guess if your main purpose for upgrading the guns is to save energy then you will not run more guns and eat into the savings. This is just a thought I had as I watched the operation this weekend. I also heard from a few sources that they are having issues with water this year because of the lack of precipitation this fall. I have not seen the river and the pond recently since I stopped mountain biking in the valley and started skiing. If this is actually the case then we will be in for a long winter.

[win]

Hawk, it is a bit more complicated than that. This time of year we are pushing to get as many guns running as possible and you can get to where you run out of air. I think it was friday when I was skiing Downspout and three towers had just come on. They were really wet so I called that in and we had to back off and shut them down. So much depends on the temperature and the humidity which can change rapidly. Our goal is not to save money this time of year. We want to run the maximum amount of water through the system whenever we can. Our savings come from doing just that and getting more snow made with the same power. There are conditions when it is cold that we can be maximizing the water through the system using fewer than the total compressors we have. Also while we invested in these new low energy snow towers and Snow Logic guns, we still have to use some of the older equipment on trails like Upper Jester and middle Jester and Lower Downspout. Since they are less efficient they require more air. Where you will see the real benefit of this summer's investment will be on trails like Snowball and Spring Fling. With the new 10" diameter pipe and the new HKD towers those trails can probably be skied in 36-48 hours of snowmaking. Ripcord, Organgrinder and Downspout also have benefitted. Over at ME you will see the benefit on trails like Rim Run, Cruiser, Which Way and North Star.

With respect to water, Our permit allows us to withdraw an unlimited amount of water from the Mad River into our snow making pond whenever the river is flowing at a specified level or higher. We try to keep it full. A couple of weeks ago, rivers in Vermont were really low, but the snowfall then melt and the rains recently have brought the rivers up. Our pond is currently full and ready to pump water later today when the cold returns. Over at ME we have two sources of water that are permitted. We pump from the pond near Inverness which is almost always full and from the Van loon stream by the Fayston school.

[Hawk]

That is all good info Win. I was mainly talking about the new tower guns on lower organ grinder. Some were running really nice but a few were very wet. All in all it was good snow all the way down lower OG on Saturday. The new guns on upper OG look like they really sped up the process of getting the trail covered. From what I saw it only took 1-1/2 days. I guess we will really see what the system can do this week with a new main and new guns on Spring Fling. Watch out because people will want that as the standard once they see that product. I bet it will be the best snow on the hill. I didn't actually know that Precip in the valley was down this fall until I heard it on Friday. Hopefully this will be the last we hear of that.

[HowieT2]

two questions, was it me, or was heavens gate running a bit faster???? I wasnt timing it or anything, it just seemed a little faster than what I recalled.

also, were any towers added on the side of Ripcord??? it seemed like there were more than what I recalled from last year.

[shadyjay]

The towers on Ripcord that were replaced are from the bottom of Spillsville, up to the top of Ripcord/Paradise. I don't think there's more of them as I don't recall any hydrants being added. Perhaps it just looks like there's more since the new ones are shiny silver, while the old ones were brown and blended in with the trees. You'll definitely notice a few extra new towers on Snowball between Twist and Spring Fling. When the water line was replaced (along with its hydrants), a few new hydrants were added as well. I really can't wait to get that trail fired up - should come into it really well... especially if the wind is right!

[Plowboy]

Didn't have my camera with me.......Very impressive snowmaking cloud over the Bush today!!!!

[phin]

The bush posted a photo of the snowmaking cloud to facebook today.

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[HowieT2]

The bush posted a photo of the snowmaking cloud to facebook today.

177

sad, looked so much better this past weekend when everything was white.

[win]

When I first rode HG I thought the same thing but no it runs around 450 feet per minute same as last year. But it is much quieter and smoother which I think creates the iillusion. On windy days lifts are slowed to keep them running and not being put on windhold if at all possible so that can also create the feeling if you last rode it on a windy day. The entire electical system is new which accounts for the smoother and quieter ride. Also a new drive and rebuilt motors. There are more towers on Ripcord. WE have put them in place of where land guns were last yeare.

[phin]

its not even winter yet. good times ahead.

[HowieT2]

When I first rode HG I thought the same thing but no it runs around 450 feet per minute same as last year. But it is much quieter and smoother which I think creates the iillusion. On windy days lifts are slowed to keep them running and not being put on windhold if at all possible so that can also create the feeling if you last rode it on a windy day. The entire electical system is new which accounts for the smoother and quieter ride. Also a new drive and rebuilt motors. There are more towers on Ripcord. WE have put them in place of where land guns were last yeare.

Yes, I am not going crazy. Thanks, win.

[shadyjay]

Last night, we fired up Snowball/Spring Fling, so hopefully those will come in pretty quickly. Valley House Traverse and Lower Jester (which we call Middle Jester) was bare ground just 2 days ago and are now getting very close.

Stay tuned - good things ahead!

[win]

Today, we have snowmaking across Valley Traverse, down Snowball and Spring Fling to the base, the middle section of Jester and the Welcome Mat. They are blasting. Hoping the Fling will be ready on Saturday. Also winching all of Grinder tonight. at ME focus because of the temps is on the terrain park and finishing top of Inverness for GMVS. We are do pleased with the guns that we may purchase 20-30 more. There are a few towers that can still use them.

[Dblshot]

Middle Jester is good so then Murphy's and Birdland can get online quick and take load off LOG. I assume over to Gatehouse or up to Ripcord with temps? From the camera it looks like the wind is cooperating on Fling

[HowieT2]

Today, we have snowmaking across Valley Traverse, down Snowball and Spring Fling to the base, the middle section of Jester and the Welcome Mat. They are blasting. Hoping the Fling will be ready on Saturday. Also winching all of Grinder tonight. at ME focus because of the temps is on the terrain park and finishing top of Inverness for GMVS. We are do pleased with the guns that we may purchase 20-30 more. There are a few towers that can still use them.

I noticed that the fan gun that had been used in past seasons at the base by the super bravo is no longer there. Curious as to why. Was that a demo that was returned? are the new guns performing better than the fan gun?

[MntMan4Bush]

There was a fan gun on Saturday set up by the welcome mat (Kid slope) on Saturday. My wife noticed it right away and said. "Those are nice. What are they? Why don't we get more of those." She'd not on the forum and I just didn't have the heart to go into it.

[random_ski_guy]

I love the bush, but meanwhile down in the slightly warmer climate of Ludlow, Okemo (the snow kings) has 259 acres open with six lift pods. Jackson Gore opened today. That's damn impressive.

[Benski]

I've heard they cheated by leaving 1 side of there trails bare after making snow on it.

[Hawk]

Open trails is open trails. Cheating? I didn't know that there was governing body that had official snowmaking rules. LOL

[Benski]

think of the amount of terrain open like the pages of a book, the book with wider margins is probably physically the biggest.

[random_ski_guy]

think of the amount of terrain open like the pages of a book, the book with wider margins is probably physically the biggest.

Dude, are you serious in calling out Okemo's snow coverage in the trail count game?

Switching topics. Best set of webcams in the ski business?:
http://www.jacksonhole.com/mountain-info/cams/live-mountain-cams.html <--be sure to click on the full view to the the complete effect.

[Hawk]

Ya but when you are skiing only a couple of ways down, any added route makes a big difference. For instance I would take spring fling open any way they could instead of waiting for them to fully cover it side to side. I would not call that cheating. I would call that open!

[Dblshot]

At least Snowball/Fling will open tomorrow. I bet skiers right of Snowball will be bit thin. Big piles too I bet.

[Benski]

I agree that Okemo having so many trails open is great even with the massive bear patches. Just be aware that much of there advertised 260 acres of terrain has not had snow made on it and is not skiable.

Also tomorrow all of Jester, Spring Fling and the Welcome Matt will be open, increasing trail count to 16. with mellon closed and okemo inflating there trail count i think sugarbush has made more snow than okemo.

[random_ski_guy]

I agree that Okemo having so many trails open is great even with the massive bear patches. Just be aware that much of there advertised 260 acres of terrain has not had snow made on it and is not skiable.

Also tomorrow all of Jester, Spring Fling and the Welcome Matt will be open, increasing trail count to 16. with mellon closed and okemo inflating there trail count i think sugarbush has made more snow than okemo.


Killington can run at 12k gallons per minute, Okemo 8 to 9k. I'd be very surprised if the Bush has more than 6k of uphill capacity at the combined sum of both Mt Ellen and Lincoln. And so, given the capacity difference, its hard to see how Okemo could have less man made snow than the Bush.


http://vtskiandride.com/2014/01/19/snowmaking-the-art-of-damage-control/

[phin]

at the end of the day, it's still jokemo.

you cant buy vert! onto the valley!

[HowieT2]

If I remember correctly, I think the capacity is about 4000gpm at both lp and Mellon.

[Dblshot]

At these temps it's about the air capacity not water. Water becomes the limiting factor when it gets below 10'. K, Okemo, Hunter have huge air plants and rent compressors Nov-Jan. bush no longer rents, that was almost a trails worth of capacity.

[win]

We are about 6 million total at LP and ME. It is not true that air in the limiting capacity any more with the new low energy guns That used to be the case and why diesel generators were needed early in the season. We have been running near Max water at LP past few days which we have never done this time of year. When it gets colder we can actually use less than the three compressors and max out on water. You can see how fast Snowball and Spring Fling came in. We have a couple of fan guns and they get moved around.

[ducky]

Terrific skiing today whatever the cause and effect.

[HowieT2]

The early season snowmaking talk will die off if things go our way with this midweek system. Start the snow dance.

[Hawk]

No it won't. ;-) el nino winter dude. Cold followed by warm followed by cold. You'll see.

[Benski]

Upper Domino Murphy's bird land and spills are open. Is paradise ext closed or is that a mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tin Woodsman]

We are about 6 million total at LP and ME. It is not true that air in the limiting capacity any more with the new low energy guns That used to be the case and why diesel generators were needed early in the season. We have been running near Max water at LP past few days which we have never done this time of year. When it gets colder we can actually use less than the three compressors and max out on water. You can see how fast Snowball and Spring Fling came in. We have a couple of fan guns and they get moved around.
That's interesting. Great to see.

Is it safe to assume that the ASC era plan of connecting the systems to leverage the full capacity of air/water as needed is off the table now?


No it won't. ;-) el nino winter dude. Cold followed by warm followed by cold. You'll see.

Hawk knows his weather patterns - this is pretty much the pattern to expect in a year like this. Back end of year should be fun though if history is any guide.

[win]

Tin,

You are correct. That plan wouldn't make sense today.

Paradise extension was closed today,

I wasn't clear in last post. We have a bit over 6,000 GPM (gallons per minute) capacity cumulatively at LP and ME or approximately 8.6 million per day.

Hawk may be correct but as we saw yesterday a degree or two can make a huge difference. We were expecting sleet and rain in between the snow and it stayed snow all day. The forecast to next week is looking a bit better today too.

[HowieT2]

No it won't. ;-) el nino winter dude. Cold followed by warm followed by cold. You'll see.

Ok Debbie downer. I'm psyched to count snow in feet not inches.

[djd66]

Seriously dude,... You got to give it a rest.

[Hawk]

Give what a rest. My Opinion? Not a chance. It appears that most people on here have no idea what good snowmaking is because they have not experienced it. I have personally working in the industry and have seen a great operation do it's thing. Hey SB has done a good job so far. The little engine that could. They blow a couple of trails at a time and seem to have found the happy place with the system, i.e. not that many wet guns. But what I will not do is look through the rosey colored glasses that you guys do and say "everything is great", "nothing to see here". Compliments get handed out with the job well done, criticism gets hands out also, when it is valid. I do not have any criticism based on how they have handled this year so far. Nice job. But there are lots of factors coming into play this year as is the case in many years. Power, water, costs, weather, whatever. And when the huge temp swings happen as they do in many el nino years, what will be the response. I had enough of the hard icy conditions from last year. We will see. That is all I am saying.

I just want the best conditions for my money!!!!

[Hawk]

Yes Paradise extension was closed. They put up a rope at the bottom of spills and diverted everybody Across that upper cat track. I do not think it has a name but it is that first traverse that you hit when you ski the woods on the right of Spills.

Upper Domino Murphy's bird land and spills are open. Is paradise ext closed or is that a mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hawk]

Howie, your storm is looking pretty juicy. Looks like the temps will go up a little in the middle so we might get some sleety stuff. Definitely good for base building and filling in the cracks. On top of the stuff we already have, this will open up a bunch of stuff if this last weekend was any indication. ;-)

Didn't see you at the Sugar Bash. Big fun!

The early season snowmaking talk will die off if things go our way with this midweek system. Start the snow dance.

[HowieT2]

Give what a rest. My Opinion? Not a chance. It appears that most people on here have no idea what good snowmaking is because they have not experienced it. I have personally working in the industry and have seen a great operation do it's thing. Hey SB has done a good job so far. The little engine that could. They blow a couple of trails at a time and seem to have found the happy place with the system, i.e. not that many wet guns. But what I will not do is look through the rosey colored glasses that you guys do and say "everything is great", "nothing to see here". Compliments get handed out with the job well done, criticism gets hands out also, when it is valid. I do not have any criticism based on how they have handled this year so far. Nice job. But there are lots of factors coming into play this year as is the case in many years. Power, water, costs, weather, whatever. And when the huge temp swings happen as they do in many el nino years, what will be the response. I had enough of the hard icy conditions from last year. We will see. That is all I am saying.

I just want the best conditions for my money!!!!

No one said anything, good bad or indifferent about the snowmaking or your opinion of it. I was just optimistically looking forward to the storm, and u were kind of bah humbug about it. You've been kind of glass half empty. Cheer up, bro. I'm not foolish enough to think we r not going to see some challenging weather conditions this winter, but I don't want to get down about it.

[Hawk]

That was not directed at you dude. I know where your at. And just for fun I think I might have to react like some of the people on here. Stay tuned. ;-)


No one said anything, good bad or indifferent about the snowmaking or your opinion of it. I was just optimistically looking forward to the storm, and u were kind of bah humbug about it. You've been kind of glass half empty. Cheer up, bro. I'm not foolish enough to think we r not going to see some challenging weather conditions this winter, but I don't want to get down about it.

[random_ski_guy]

Tin,

You are correct. That plan wouldn't make sense today.

Paradise extension was closed today,

I wasn't clear in last post. We have a bit over 6,000 GPM (gallons per minute) capacity cumulatively at LP and ME or approximately 8.6 million per day.

Hawk may be correct but as we saw yesterday a degree or two can make a huge difference. We were expecting sleet and rain in between the snow and it stayed snow all day. The forecast to next week is looking a bit better today too.

6k GPM is pretty good capacity, more than I thought. What I always forget is that a good portion of that capacity is at ME where you have no plans (rightfully so) to open before mid December. Therefore, all that Nov/early Dec snow making is going on to be bottled up and unleashed all at once on Dec 20. It makes it tough for the early season trail count game.

[djd66]

Give what a rest. My Opinion? Not a chance. It appears that most people on here have no idea what good snowmaking is because they have not experienced it. I have personally working in the industry and have seen a great operation do it's thing. Hey SB has done a good job so far. The little engine that could. They blow a couple of trails at a time and seem to have found the happy place with the system, i.e. not that many wet guns. But what I will not do is look through the rosey colored glasses that you guys do and say "everything is great", "nothing to see here". Compliments get handed out with the job well done, criticism gets hands out also, when it is valid. I do not have any criticism based on how they have handled this year so far. Nice job. But there are lots of factors coming into play this year as is the case in many years. Power, water, costs, weather, whatever. And when the huge temp swings happen as they do in many el nino years, what will be the response. I had enough of the hard icy conditions from last year. We will see. That is all I am saying.

I just want the best conditions for my money!!!!

Hawk -

You seriously have to take a chill pill. Yes, I wear rosey colored glassed and my glass isnt half full - its over flowing! To be honest - I rarely comment on this board anymore - as it has become a joke of people bitching about basically everything. Is everything perfect? No - but if you think Killington has a better product - I would say you go ski there for a season. We have a storm coming that could make the skiing great - and all you do is go comment about how this year is going to be a shitty winter because of the so called elnino effect.

[Hawk]

Your right. Everything is great. I must take a pill. There is no way we could do better. We are perfect now. How foolish of me. Carry on. Sorry. :-)

[othripper]

hahaha.

[Tin Woodsman]

6k GPM is pretty good capacity, more than I thought. What I always forget is that a good portion of that capacity is at ME where you have no plans (rightfully so) to open before mid December. Therefore, all that Nov/early Dec snow making is going on to be bottled up and unleashed all at once on Dec 20. It makes it tough for the early season trail count game.

This pretty much nails it. 6K GPM would get them into, if not the big leagues, then at least a reasonable facsimile of same. The problem is that the 6k figure is pretty much mythical in that it is actually the combined sum of two completely separate systems at LP and ME. So when the rubber hits the road in the early season or after a thaw/freeze cycle, they can't focus on certain areas as needed and instead have to do the best they can with two, relatively small (for a resort its size) systems.

I guess I'll take Win's word for it that such an investment would no longer make sense. I'm not close enough to the numbers to have an informed perspective either way, though the output gap seems pretty stark outside in.

[Hawk]

Tinny, who needs numbers? We are all set!!! Mother nature is going to hook us up! We are good. Perfect in fact so stop stressing. I am going to do a little dance in my ulr costume and sprinkle some pixie dust and then in will snow. No need for snow making. Just chill doooood!


This pretty much nails it. 6K GPM would get them into, if not the big leagues, then at least a reasonable facsimile of same. The problem is that the 6k figure is pretty much mythical in that it is actually the combined sum of two completely separate systems at LP and ME. So when the rubber hits the road in the early season or after a thaw/freeze cycle, they can't focus on certain areas as needed and instead have to do the best they can with two, relatively small (for a resort its size) systems.

I guess I'll take Win's word for it that such an investment would no longer make sense. I'm not close enough to the numbers to have an informed perspective either way, though the output gap seems pretty stark outside in.

[Dblshot]

Valley House going to spin this weekend?

[gostan]

Looking good as Hawk says. But I am in Florida visiting with my 88 year old mother. I should know never to book a trip if JR has alao booked one. It always snows when he is away.

[Dblshot]

"Soft" opening for Mt Ellen this weekend for pass holders?

[win]

Tin,

The ASC plan doesn't make sense but there are other ways to increase water flow in the future. It will take some serious investment but less than the ASC plan. The Low Energy guns have enabled this. Essentially it is expanding the diameter of certain existing pipe and getting more booster pumps. Air is no longer the constraint. The perfect example is Snowball and Spring Flng where we put in new 10" diameter pipe this summer. This in combination with the HKD towers had the trails open after 36 hours of snow making.

By the way, the trail at the bottom of Spillsville is not an official trail on the map but one we refer to as Route 21. Route 22 is the one between Upper Griner and Upper Jesster.

Fingers crossed it will be all snow like last weekend.

May open Valley House chair this weekend since the Lodge and Wunderbar will be open. . We'll decide tomorrow based on available staffing. The lift is ready to go.

[Go Figure]

The crossover road from Spills is called 21 as in Tower 21 of the gondola. The agreement Claneil made to get the Mad River water states no connection of the systems can be made. Skiing on trails with active snowmaking is tough as there are few truly dry guns running and the trails that are done are hard as a rock. Wet storm/sleet will aloe some more trails to open which is good. Cold beer is good also.

[sglatham]

Whoever raised the point of this being an "El Nino" winter is technically correct but the implication is way off. What I mean is a typical El Nino winter is warm in the East with lots of back and forth, where the warm ups are very warm. The El Nino this year is weak at best, and a "Modoki" El Nino, which means the central pac zones are warmer than the area just off of South America. Modoki El Nino's have tended to be COLD in the East. Most of the analogs based on sea surface temperatures and other large scale/tele connection factors point to a colder than normal winter. The El Nino, as it is, may energize the southern jet, and hence forecasts for more snow too. As we have seen, the southern jet is active.

As for this week, I think the 'Bush will see some mix or even a brief change. But it will be after a significant dump and will be a major base builder. And then it should change back to snow and create a post-base-building powder day where just about everything is in play.

Enjoy.

And THINK SNOW!

[HowieT2]

Howie, your storm is looking pretty juicy. Looks like the temps will go up a little in the middle so we might get some sleety stuff. Definitely good for base building and filling in the cracks. On top of the stuff we already have, this will open up a bunch of stuff if this last weekend was any indication. ;-)

Didn't see you at the Sugar Bash. Big fun!

Wasn't up this past weekend.

[HowieT2]

Tin,

The ASC plan doesn't make sense but there are other ways to increase water flow in the future. It will take some serious investment but less than the ASC plan. The Low Energy guns have enabled this. Essentially it is expanding the diameter of certain existing pipe and getting more booster pumps. Air is no longer the constraint. The perfect example is Snowball and Spring Flng where we put in new 10" diameter pipe this summer. This in combination with the HKD towers had the trails open after 36 hours of snow making.

By the way, the trail at the bottom of Spillsville is not an official trail on the map but one we refer to as Route 21. Route 22 is the one between Upper Griner and Upper Jesster.

Fingers crossed it will be all snow like last weekend.

May open Valley House chair this weekend since the Lodge and Wunderbar will be open. . We'll decide tomorrow based on available staffing. The lift is ready to go.

By expanding the diameter of certain pipes, I assume you are referring to pipes on the mtn, since you recently replaced the pipes from the pond up to the mtn, no???
If that's the case, that would seem to be significantly easier and cheaper than connecting the 2 systems, not to mention actually increasing overall capacity as opposed to sharing it.
Are there legal restrictions or permitting necessary to increase the flow?

Hey hawk, you're in construction, you know anyone who can hook win up with some good quality 10" diameter pipe, cheap, pronto?

[angler]

Given the limitations of snowmaking between both mountains early season. I was wondering when the valley house chair gets replaced if it would make sense to concentrate the early snowmaking on the super bravo and valley house side to increase trail count and get people on more trails early season. Then move to the upper mountain where there is limited terrain and a funnel into deathspout Just a thought....

[Benski]

Given the limitations of snowmaking between both mountains early season. I was wondering when the valley house chair gets replaced if it would make sense to concentrate the early snowmaking on the super bravo and valley house side to increase trail count and get people on more trails early season. Then move to the upper mountain where there is limited terrain and a funnel into deathspout Just a thought....

higher elevation=colder temperature=better snowmaking conditions=less snow lost during thaws. Other than that your idea only changes were the snow is made.

[angler]

higher elevation=colder temperature=better snowmaking conditions=less snow lost during thaws. Other than that your idea only changes were the snow is made.
Not really, it opens more terrain and gives people more then one way down. I get the higher elevation but it gets old quickly when you only have a couple of trails open plus it gets icy early on. Anyway this is the time of year that the mountain falls behind the other mountains on trail count. They need to figure it out.

[southvillager]

I agree with Angler, Downspout to lower Downpsout to Coffee Run is not Sugarbush's best run. Back when there was a chair on Spring Fling, I think there was early skiing on that side. Racers edge and Spring Fling would be a great early option, and being wider trails than Deathspout, should hold up past 10AM on a busy day. My memories from the 80s is fuzzy, I think Spring Fling was also open late in the season with deep man-made. I need a hot tub time machine to know for sure.

[HowieT2]

I agree with Angler, Downspout to lower Downpsout to Coffee Run is not Sugarbush's best run. Back when there was a chair on Spring Fling, I think there was early skiing on that side. Racers edge and Spring Fling would be a great early option, and being wider trails than Deathspout, should hold up past 10AM on a busy day. My memories from the 80s is fuzzy, I think Spring Fling was also open late in the season with deep man-made. I need a hot tub time machine to know for sure.
Hence the name "spring fling"?

[Hawk]

Come on guys. Skiing is great! Mother nature is coming. We will all forget about this rough patch next week. I love downspout. Super good corduroy on that sucka. Keep the faith and we will be rewarded! Here at sugarbush we get snow from heaven not hoses. Oh, that's Targee. Sorry. Well maybe we should change our slogan.

[Hawk]

Yay Stan!!!!! Now that is some positive stoke.
Awesome Dude.

Looking good as Hawk says. But I am in Florida visiting with my 88 year old mother. I should know never to book a trip if JR has alao booked one. It always snows when he is away.

[djd66]

Come on guys. Skiing is great! Mother nature is coming. We will all forget about this rough patch next week. I love downspout. Super good corduroy on that sucka. Keep the faith and we will be rewarded! Here at sugarbush we get snow from heaven not hoses. Oh, that's Targee. Sorry. Well maybe we should change our slogan.



You remind me so much of an old cartoon I would watch as a kid - Guliver's Travels,... there was a character call Glum,... "we'll never make it,... we're doomed" For those of you that don't remember,... you got to watch the youtube clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqALm_rmM1g

[Hawk]

What do you mean. Everything is looking bright and awesome. No glum here. Can't wait for the snow to fall!

[win]

Go Figure and I must be skiing different mountains.

There are no restirctions pumping more water. The only restriction in withdrawing water from the Mad River when the flow is below the specified level.

With a new Valley lift it might make sense if the temperatures allow to open that pod firs and then work on the upper mountain. Early season you go where the temperatures allows. Downspout is a challenging trail so having options early on make for a better experience.

[southvillager]

With a new Valley lift it might make sense if the temperatures allow to open that pod firs and then work on the upper mountain. Early season you go where the temperatures allows. Downspout is a challenging trail so having options early on make for a better experience.

But then we would whine about the hike up to the Valley House. ;-) Kidding, of course. I think they used to run a magic carpet from the old base lodge up to the Spring Fling chair for a couple of years, as a shuttle type of thing. It was laid out along the pond skimming route. I think. Not sure. Maybe we hiked.

[SkiVideoGuy]

Hey, happy NorEaster people in VT. I'm in Bethlehem PA where it's raining. I live vicariously through the SB website. It's 12:50pm on Tuesday. Is there ANY snowmaking going on on-mountain? Website trail report says no. IF you are gonna have a website that indicates there is snowmaking going on, THEN please make it accurate. Whomever is at the bottom of the hill getting the updates from those doing the hard work, should be instantly updating the website. Don't like that idea? Don't have a website. Better yet, write code that links your snowmaking system to the website to take that person out of the loop. I'm 6 hours away. SB is where I go in VT. We stay with a friend at a condo on the access road and occasionally use the Eagles with our timeshare network. Get up there 2-3 times each winter.

Most of you are either locals or within an easy weekend drive and have a much much much more hands on view or SB. My view is via www.sugarbush.com. If you are going to have a website, make it accurate. Not seeing snowmaking on the 3/6 working webcams so maybe conditions do not support snowmaking. It's 12:56 and I just looked again. Can anyone better informed let someone from PA know if snowmaking and trail expansion is happening?

[Tin Woodsman]

Go Figure and I must be skiing different mountains.

There are no restirctions pumping more water. The only restriction in withdrawing water from the Mad River when the flow is below the specified level.

With a new Valley lift it might make sense if the temperatures allow to open that pod firs and then work on the upper mountain. Early season you go where the temperatures allows. Downspout is a challenging trail so having options early on make for a better experience.

Key text here is "when temperatures allow". While it would be great to get more terrain variety early season, the simple fact is that early season temps generally don't lend themselves well to making snow below 2500' all that often. Better solution, in a very narrow sense, would be to go ahead with that ASC-era plan to cut a run in that wide swath of north facing trees between Domino and Downspout, but there are significant externalities there.

Of course, the best solution would be to simply place early season at Mt Ellen where you can have a full, north facing pod open above 3000' and download on GMX. Not holding my breath on that though - we've gone over this before.

[Hawk]

Actually you remind me so much of Pollyanna!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pollyanna

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bhyKS_SWPM

But that is OK. Everything is great!


You remind me so much of an old cartoon I would watch as a kid - Guliver's Travels,... there was a character call Glum,... "we'll never make it,... we're doomed" For those of you that don't remember,... you got to watch the youtube clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqALm_rmM1g

[Hawk]

Hey, happy NorEaster people in VT. I'm in Bethlehem PA where it's raining. I live vicariously through the SB website. It's 12:50pm on Tuesday. Is there ANY snowmaking going on on-mountain? Website trail report says no. IF you are gonna have a website that indicates there is snowmaking going on, THEN please make it accurate. Whomever is at the bottom of the hill getting the updates from those doing the hard work, should be instantly updating the website. Don't like that idea? Don't have a website. Better yet, write code that links your snowmaking system to the website to take that person out of the loop. I'm 6 hours away. SB is where I go in VT. We stay with a friend at a condo on the access road and occasionally use the Eagles with our timeshare network. Get up there 2-3 times each winter.

Most of you are either locals or within an easy weekend drive and have a much much much more hands on view or SB. My view is via www.sugarbush.com. If you are going to have a website, make it accurate. Not seeing snowmaking on the 3/6 working webcams so maybe conditions do not support snowmaking. It's 12:56 and I just looked again. Can anyone better informed let someone from PA know if snowmaking and trail expansion is happening?

They were making snow around the gate house lift to open up the beginner terrain but if you look at the temps on that report, it shows that it might be too warm to make snow right now. That would explain the report showing no snowmaking.

I wouldn't worry about it. It's going to snow a ton this winter and we will not need the snowmaking. I know this because I was told this by people on this message board. Everything is great around here. Come and join the fun!

[ReefBum]

They were making snow around the gate house lift to open up the beginner terrain but if you look at the temps on that report, it shows that it might be too warm to make snow right now. That would explain the report showing no snowmaking.

I wouldn't worry about it. It's going to snow a ton this winter and we will not need the snowmaking. I know this because I was told this by people on this message board. Everything is great around here. Come and join the fun!I didn't see any snow making this morning when I was skiing but there were a number of guns bunched together that were not in use in the middle of lower Ripcord. Perhaps this is a part of the next phase?

Skiing has been great for this time of the year so hopefully the good mojo will continue.

[win]

It is 5pm here at Sugarbush. We shut down snowmaking this morning as the temperatures and humidity came up. The Cam's are live with a few seconds delay. The snow report on the web shows lifts and trails open, which are groomed and where snowmaking is occurring and is updated during the day as needed. The snowphone can also be called 802-583-7669 (snow).

We shut down snowmaking this morning as temperatures and humidity rose. Mother Nature is taking over. It is 32 as the base and 25 at the Summit so we should see some decent accumulation by morning, and I suspect Friday am will be even better. Temps may rise a bit but hopefully we will stay all snow. The forecast is dynamic though. Temperatures are going to be marginal down low through the weekend, so we will be moving up next to make snow on Ripcord at LP and Elbow and as far down as possible at ME. It should be a fun weekend and we will see lift and trail expansion at LP.

[Dblshot]

It's gonna be a zoo this weekend. Good for business though.

[southvillager]

Hopefully Snowball and Spring Fling will be groomed. Those whales are not too much fun for some of us. Is there a schedule for rolling them?

[Benski]

according to the snow report snowball and spring fling will be groomed and according to Facebook Facebook Castle rock is on the table for the weekend.

[ReefBum]

Heavy snow right now.....I'd say almost a foot at our house at 1,600 ft


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[random_ski_guy]

Sweet. Looks like its really bombing out. Heavy wet base snow - perfect to get the mtn open in a big way. Long term forecast has trended cooler too. Nice.

[HowieT2]

But then we would whine about the hike up to the Valley House. ;-) Kidding, of course. I think they used to run a magic carpet from the old base lodge up to the Spring Fling chair for a couple of years, as a shuttle type of thing. It was laid out along the pond skimming route. I think. Not sure. Maybe we hiked.
I remember that magic carpet . Went up to the level of the entrance to the valley house.

[HowieT2]

They were making snow around the gate house lift to open up the beginner terrain but if you look at the temps on that report, it shows that it might be too warm to make snow right now. That would explain the report showing no snowmaking.

I wouldn't worry about it. It's going to snow a ton this winter and we will not need the snowmaking. I know this because I was told this by people on this message board. Everything is great around here. Come and join the fun!

I feel I need to buy you a drink or three. Saturday? Shawn?
Spoke to a buddy today who flying out to alta tomorrow. Shitty week there. It will be what it will be.

[HowieT2]

What's the snow situation? Plowboy? Looks like it's dumping on the webcam.

[HowieT2]

This is good.


000
FXUS61 KBTV 100853
AFDBTV

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BURLINGTON VT
353 AM EST WED DEC 10 2014

.SYNOPSIS...
AN EARLY SEASON WINTER STORM WILL CONTINUE TO AFFECT THE REGION
TODAY INTO THURSDAY WITH SCATTERED TO WIDESPREAD SNOWS AND MIXED
PRECIPITATION. PRECIPITATION GRADUALLY WANES AND COMES TO AN END BY
THIS COMING WEEKEND AS HIGH PRESSURE BUILDS EAST INTO THE REGION.
TEMPERATURES WILL AVERAGE SOME 3 TO 6 DEGREES ABOVE NORMAL THROUGH
THE NEXT 7 DAYS WITH ARCTIC AIR REMAINING WELL NORTH OF THE AREA.

&&

.NEAR TERM /UNTIL 7 PM THIS EVENING/...
AS OF 353 AM EST WEDNESDAY...LONG-DURATION WINTER STORM CONTINUES
TO AFFECT THE AREA TODAY WITH "ROUND TWO" SLUG OF ADDITIONAL PCPN
PUSHING WNW ACROSS VT/NRN NY BY AFTERNOON/EARLY EVENING. MODELS
ALL CONSISTENT IN SHOWING THIS FEATURE AND THEIR TIMING/INTENSITY
APPEARS REASONABLE GIVEN A RATHER ROBUST REBLOSSOMING OF
CONVECTION ON THE NORTH WALL OF THE GULF STREAM SEEN ON IR IMAGERY
THIS MORNING. THERMAL PROFILES AGAIN QUITE TRICKY ACROSS
CENTRAL/WRN VT WHERE THE 925/850 MB 0C ISOTHERM WAFFLES ABOUT MOST
OF THE DAY/EARLY EVENING. FURTHER EAST PROFILES WARM CONSIDERABLY
SUCH THAT MUCH OF THE PCPN WILL FALL AS EITHER PLAIN RAIN OR A MIX
OF SLEET AND/OR ICE AT MID AND UPPER ELEVATIONS. ACROSS NRN NY
MAINLY ALL SNOW IS EXPECTED. ARRIVAL OF SECONDARY SURGE OF
STEADIER PCPN OCCURS ACROSS ERN COUNTIES BY LATE MORNING/EARLY
AFTERNOON...AND MID TO LATE AFTERNOON/EARLY EVENING FURTHER WEST.
GIVEN EXPECTED P-TYPE...PCPN AMTS AND TIMING HAVE OPTED FOR
SEVERAL HEADLINE CHANGES WITH THIS PACKAGE. FIRSTLY...ALL WINTER
HEADLINES WILL BE EXTENDED TO 11 PM TO ACCOUNT FOR LATER END TIME
OF STEADIER PCPN THIS EVENING. SECONDLY...WINTER STORM WARNINGS
HAVE BEEN LOWERED TO WINTER WX ADVISORIES ACROSS OUR FAR ERN VT
COUNTIES WHERE ANY ADDITIONAL LIGHT PL/FZRA ACCUMULATIONS SHOULD
BE MINOR IN THE WARMER AIR. ADDITIONAL SNOW ACCUMULATIONS RANGING
FROM 1-4 INCHES ACROSS CENTRAL/WRN VT AND THE SLV TODAY...WITH
HIGHER AMTS OF 4-7 INCHES POSSIBLE IN THE ADIRONDACKS WITH BEST
ACCUMULATIONS OCCURRING TOWARD LATER IN THE DAY OR EARLY EVENING.
TEMPERATURES REMAIN NEARLY STEADY UNDER NEUTRAL LOW LEVEL THERMAL
ADVECTION...GENERALLY UPPER 20S TO MID 30S.

&&

.SHORT TERM /7 PM THIS EVENING THROUGH FRIDAY/...
AS OF 353 AM EST WEDNESDAY...BY THIS EVENING SECONDARY SURGE OF
PCPN CONTINUES TO PUSH EAST TO WEST ACROSS THE FORECAST AREA WITH
ADDITIONAL LIGHT TO MODERATE SNOW ACCUMULATIONS POSSIBLE FROM
CENTRAL VT WEST. THERMAL PROFILES AGAIN TRICKY...BUT MODEL
CONSENSUS NOW SHOWING A GRADUAL COOLING OF THE PROFILE THROUGH
TIME SUCH THAT WE COULD END UP SEEING A SIMILAR SITUATION OF A
TRANSITION TO A PERIOD OF HEAVY WET SNOW JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE
OUTSIDE OF FAR EASTERN VT. THIS WILL HAVE TO BE MONITORED CLOSELY
GIVEN CURRENT POWER OUTAGES AND LOAD STRESSES OF HEAVIER/WET SNOW
ON AREA TREES/POWER LINES. WHILE CONFIDENCE LEVEL IS ONLY MODEST
FOR THIS OCCURRING IN VT...ADDL ACCUMULATIONS OF 2-5 INCHES APPEAR
LIKELY ACROSS OUR NRN NY COUNTIES OUTSIDE AREAS RIGHT ALONG LAKE
CHAMPLAIN. BY LATER TONIGHT STEADIER/HEAVIER PCPN CONTINUES TO
PUSH WEST AND WEAKEN ACROSS CENTRAL NY INTO THE EASTERN LAKE
ONTARIO REGION/SLV. SOME ADDL VERY LIGHT SNOW ACCUMULATIONS STILL
POSSIBLE BUT INTENSITY SHOULD BE LESSENING CONSIDERABLY. LOWS
REMAIN UNIFORM...MID 20S TO LOWER 30S.

BY THURSDAY INTO FRIDAY LARGE-SCALE UPPER LOW CONTINUES TO
DUMBBELL/ROTATE ACROSS CENTRAL/NRN NEW ENGLAND...ESSENTIALLY GOING
NOWHERE WHILE SLOWLY WEAKENING. WHILE SYSTEM SLOWLY FILLS PROFILES
ALOFT GRADUALLY COOL AS WARM THERMAL ADVECTIVE PROCESSES BECOME
SEPARATED FROM THE INNER CIRCULATION. THUS CLOUDY SKIES AND PERIODIC
EPISODES OF LIGHT SNOW/SHSN STILL A GOOD BET WITH ADDITIONAL
ACCUMULATIONS LIKELY ACROSS THE HIGHER TERRAIN. SOME BRIEF MIX WITH
RAIN POSSIBLE IN THE LOWER VALLEY LOCATIONS DURING MAX HEATING IN
THE EARLY/MID AFTERNOON. IN FACT...AS CENTRAL OF LOW TRENDS SLIGHTLY
EAST OVER TIME...MID LEVEL FLOW TRENDS LIGHT NORTHWESTERLY AND
BLOCKED SO SOME OF THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS WILL CONTINUE TO DO QUITE
WELL ON ADDL LIGHT SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...SOMETHING THE RESORTS SHOULD
BE QUITE HAPPY WITH. TEMPERATURES AGAIN REALLY GOING NOWHERE WITH
DAILY HIGHS IN THE 30S AND OVERNIGHT LOWS FROM 25 TO 30.

&&

.LONG TERM /FRIDAY NIGHT THROUGH TUESDAY/...
AS OF 353 AM EST WEDNESDAY...ON FRIDAY LATE EVENING THE UPPER
LEVEL LOW WILL BE CENTERED ALMOST DIRECTLY OVER VERMONT AND WILL
BE SLOWLY DRIFTING SOUTH MOVING INTO SUNDAY. WITH THE 700MB AND
500MB FLOW ORIENTED NORTH TO NORTH NORTHWEST THERE WILL BE
FAVOURABLE CONDITIONS FOR UPSLOPE SNOW SHOWERS IN THE HIGHER
TERRAIN OF THE GREENS AND THE ADIRONDACKS SO I KEPT IN CHANCE
WORDING OF SNOW SHOWERS IN THE GRIDS. RIGHT NOW BASED ON A
CONSENSUS OF MODELED QPF WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT 1-3 INCHES OVER
THE GREENS WITH 1-2 OVER THE ADIRONDACKS. IN THE CHAMPLAIN VALLEY
ACCUMULATIONS WOULD RANGE FROM A DUSTING TO MAYBE AN INCH. BY
SATURDAY THE UPPER LEVEL LOW WILL HAVE DRIFTED FAR ENOUGH OFF CAPE
COD THAT CHANCES FOR ANY ORGANIZED SNOW POTENTIAL WILL BE WEAK. IF
ANYTHING THERE MAY STILL BE SOME UPSLOPE SNOW SHOWER ACTIVITY OVER
THE SPINE OF THE GREENS BUT THATS A SMALL CHANCE RIGHT NOW.

[HowieT2]

A foot of wet dense base snow yesterday. More on the way before the weekend. We may not be riding the castlerock lift, but me thinks it likely we'll be skiing it Saturday.

[Hawk]

Got a text from people that skied last night. They said that there is more than a foot of good quality snow at the top. As you go down it gains density and moisture. There is about a foot at the bottom. Looks like more snow for the next two days off and on. I am headed up Thursday. Hope to see you this weekend.

[angler]

For you're viewing pleasure,

http://www.grindtv.com/action-sports/snow/post/cody-townsends-ski-line-insane-ever/

[Hawk]

Whaaaaat!

[angler]

I know, really? Has a serious set of balls thats all can say.

[HowieT2]

ropes dropped on paradise and moonshine amongst others. if paradise is in play today, castlerock should be open, at least for hiking, by the weekend with another 6-12" between now and then. good times fellas.

fwiw-quite busy on the webcam for midweek.

radar says its snowing but webcam says not.

[ducky]

Know of two people who skied briefly but left (both advanced: one skier, one rider). Heavy and dense. Great for base building and should groom out well. Sleeting currently at 1:00. Get your yellow wax on.

[Hawk]

According to the SB Facebook page CR will be open tomorrow.

ropes dropped on paradise and moonshine amongst others. if paradise is in play today, castlerock should be open, at least for hiking, by the weekend with another 6-12" between now and then. good times fellas.

fwiw-quite busy on the webcam for midweek.

radar says its snowing but webcam says not.

[Hawk]

Your web cam is now lit up also.

ropes dropped on paradise and moonshine amongst others. if paradise is in play today, castlerock should be open, at least for hiking, by the weekend with another 6-12" between now and then. good times fellas.

fwiw-quite busy on the webcam for midweek.

radar says its snowing but webcam says not.

[Hrdstrt]

Schools were cancelled today, so that could explain some of the extra bodies at the hill today. We had at least 14" at my house in Waitsfield, where waterbury received an inch or two. This was probably the heaviest and most wet snow that I remember. It rarely accumulates that much when it is that wet. Definitely good base building snow.
If you have the means to be able to avoid shoveling, take advantage of it. Make sure to clear your roofs, again it's quite heavy.

[Ride Delaware ?]

I'll post an actual TR with pictures later, but I can confirm that at 1,700' there was about 10". The wetness and density at the base compacted it down, but it never switched to rain. There was about 14" at the mid station and up. It was frozen mist and sleet from 11-2, but as I was cleaning my car off it changed over to snow and it is still dumping. Looks like we avoided the niar. Expecting another 4"-8" tonight with more tomorrow and Friday. It is excellent base building snow, but there's next to no float. It's tough to push through and is packing well. With the temps on the horizon being just around freezing before dropping into the 20's, this sets us up very well for being off piste during the next dump. Birdland (upper 2/3) and Murphy's had great coverage with just some small thin spots. I know what's under the snow on Paradise and wasn't willing to test that out yet.

[Benski]

Why isn't lower paradise open yet and why is gatehouse not opening tomorrow.


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[shadyjay]

My guess on the Gate House side: still waiting to push out the piles from the snow we made on Pushover, Sugarbear Road, Easy Rider, etc. Piles need some cure time before pushing out. As of last check (Monday night), some piles on Sugarbear Road were in the 10-20' high range. Not easy for beginners to get by, let alone anyone (or anything) else for that matter. Since Gate House is the primary beginner area, you want that groomed before opening.

Plenty of other terrain open, however. The Rock opens at 10am tomorrow. Everything on Bravo side open.

[WWF-VT]

Why isn't lower paradise open yet and why is gatehouse not opening tomorrow.


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You're asking why no Gate House opening while the SB web site says Castle Rock chair is planned to open tomorrow?

[Benski]

You're asking why no Gate House opening while the SB web site says Castle Rock chair is planned to open tomorrow?

Yes. It seemed a little odd. Thanks Jay for the explanation.

[HowieT2]

Snow report anyone?

[shadyjay]

Entire mountain and village lost power between 4:30 and 7:30pm on Wed night after several late afternoon surges. Was watching the sky light up red, green, white, orange, red. Very heavy snow.

Gonna try to make my season debut tomorrow before work... yes, I'm running VERY late this year!

[HowieT2]

10" sweet

[djd66]

10" sweet


+1,... or should I say +12,... skiing will be fricken awesome this weekend!

[HowieT2]

+1,... or should I say +12,... skiing will be fricken awesome this weekend!

What, what, what, what
What, what, what, what
What, what, what, what
What, what, what, what
What, what, what, what
What, what, what, what
What, what, what, what
What, what, what, what

I'm gonna pop some tags
Only got twenty dollars in my pocket
I - I - I'm hunting, looking for a come-up
This is fucking awesome

[vonski]

The grass on the hill behind the lodge is gone. That is a beautiful sight.

[HowieT2]

and this from today's BTV AFD

ROKEN RECORD FORECAST THEN CONTINUE INTO FRIDAY/FRIDAY NIGHT AS
UPPER LOW CENTER GRADUALLY DROPS SOUTH AND EAST OFFSHORE WITH MOIST
NORTHWESTERLY FLOW REMAINING ATOP THE REGION FOSTERING SCT/NUMEROUS
SHSN ACROSS THE NRN/NRN MTNS. COVERAGE WILL TEND TO BECOME MORE TIED
TO THE TERRAIN OVER TIME WITH GRADUAL DRYING EXPECTED IN THE LOWER
ELEVATIONS. WHILE ACCUMULATIONS WILL BE RELATIVELY LIGHT IN ANY
GIVEN 12-HR FORECAST PERIOD...I WOULDN`T BE SURPRISED TO SEE
ADDITIONAL 3-DAY TOTALS ACROSS THE NRN MTNS IN THE 6-12 INCH
RANGE...2-5 INCHES IN THE NRN VALLEYS...AND TRACE TO 2 INCHES IN THE
SOUTHERN VALLEYS. TEMPERATURES REMAIN SEASONALLY COOL AND UNIFORM
FRI/FRI NT WITH HIGHS/LOWS VERY SIMILAR TO TODAY/TONIGHT.

[win]

South Villager, I think your question was answered. We did groom Snowball and Spring Fling before the snow but it will need to be winched with all that is on it. Will do by the weekend. The piles are let to dry before grooming. If you do it too soon it will be boiler plate for the season.

Gatehouse is opening tomorrow and Castlerock did open today and 10am. We schedule the GH lift to open this weekend and that is how maintenance is scheduled and how the upgrade work was scheduled as well. All is complete and lift is being inspected by the State today. We are looking to see 100% open at LP this weekend. It should be a great opening at ME next Friday as well.

Looks like we will continue to get a bit of snow into Saturday and temps are a bit cooler so the snow is lighter. The human grooming yesterday also helped a lot.

[teleo]

Will 100% include village double chair sat? My daughter wants a couple runs there to remember how to ski. Otherwise I might have trouble getting her out:-(

[Benski]

Will the valley floor bus be available to pick up at the bottom of slidebrook. Going to be a sick weekend.


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[shadyjay]

First hand report from my first day out of the season:

WOW.... that's all I have to say... WOW

Didn't make it to Castlerock or even Heaven's Gate, as I felt content with all the terrain open off Bravo. First run was Downspout to get back into the groove. Felt confident for Birdland and Lower Birdland. Lower Birdland was sublime. Nary a waterbar or a rock to be found. Confidence was high at that point. Murphy's next. Same thing, although a spot or two I think I did "hit bottom". Domino was perfect. Stein's was even better. Snowball/Fling was a dream. Only waterbar I found was at the bottom of Racer's Edge. Lots of happy faces and smiles all around today. No bad terrain out there anywhere. For this time of year, coverage is excellent. Snow that fell last night (10") was a LOT lighter than Tuesday night's. Needless to say, I think we came away with quite the net gain that has set up the natural trails with a good base (that heavy wet snow) and the 10" on top of that led to a mid-winter condition feel out there.

That should be incentive enough, for those having any doubts on coming up this weekend.



And since the buses are all running (except Mt Ellen shuttle, but I think the Valley floor bus does stop there), I don't see why they wouldn't pick anyone up "along the route".

[Hawk]

No it will not. Plus it is still too early for that.

Will the valley floor bus be available to pick up at the bottom of slidebrook. Going to be a sick weekend.


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[phin]

The buses were running last weekend. Was the Valley Floor bus not one of them? I could've sworn I saw it.

[Hawk]

Until they are running between the two mountains, they do not stop at slide Brook. Either way you can go ahead and try. With 3 friends out last year with various broken bones due to skiing the woods to early, you will not find me there.

[phin]

Until they are running between the two mountains, they do not stop at slide Brook. Either way you can go ahead and try. With 3 friends out last year with various broken bones due to skiing the woods to early, you will not find me there.


Personally I'll be staying out. But shit people have been skiing lew's line since thanksgiving weekend so I'm guessing slide brook will getting it's fair share of love this weekend. You can't fix stupid.

[HowieT2]

No it will not. Plus it is still too early for that.

40" settled snow depth for off piste. not there yet, but getting closer. that being said, I might dip a toe in carefully this weekend.

[Hawk]

It's not 40" halfway down slide brook. That is all I am saying.

[Benski]

I assumed it would be too early. I was hoping the bus would not be running so fewer people will ski it. If it snows again by next week that could be a good thing. I would not go there unless I knew christmas tree woods are either good or skied off.

[ReefBum]

It was like a western powder day today.....everything was incredible and stuff was not getting skied off. Castlerock was amazing.....can't believe all the snow that was in play. The wet snow from a couple of days ago really set up a solid base.

[Dblshot]

What is the power situation in the Valley? Lots of outages? Not worried about the lifts per se but showing up to a dark cold house.

[Benski]

I heard the plows were overwhelmed by how dense the snow was.

[HowieT2]

What is the power situation in the Valley? Lots of outages? Not worried about the lifts per se but showing up to a dark cold house.

We were out but back on now. Heard there is a lot of tree damage.

[HowieT2]

It's not 40" halfway down slide brook. That is all I am saying.

I meant, 40" is what is necessary.

[phin]

There were a couple trees down completely blocking the southbound lane on 100 going through Granville gulf and bunch of low hangers going north.

Beer, vape, bed, ski.

[Hawk]

No you can't . LOL

[Hawk]

The snow pasted everything up here. It stuck to everything. Trees bending over all over the place. Power was out at the condo but back up now. Signs that our plow guy had a real hard time also. This is just want the doctor ordered.

[HowieT2]

The snow pasted everything up here. It stuck to everything. Trees bending over all over the place. Power was out at the condo but back up now. Signs that our plow guy had a real hard time also. This is just want the doctor ordered.

We got a note that they had to use bucket loaders to move the snow it was so heavy.

[Dblshot]

Anyone go 12A over the gap? No issues?

[Hawk]

Nope. No issues except the corners were a little slick. Headed out now. Woo hoo!!

Anyone go 12A over the gap? No issues?

[gostan]

What is anybody going to have to complain about this weekend?😀

[HowieT2]

MRG opened today. I wonder if that has any significant impact on crowds at SB???

[Dblshot]

Alcohol service. :)

[Hawk]

Don't provoke me Stan.....I mean.....I know Right.


What is anybody going to have to complain about this weekend?😀

[Hawk]

I would say no. Not that many of the MRG skiers come to SB and on opening weekend at MRG very few SB skiers will go to MRG. My guess is the numbers tomorrow will be pretty good but not a crush. People are Christmas shopping and still doing other things. Plus if everything goes well, we will have all our lifts at Lincoln. They shoveled out the VH double today and were running it. Looks like that will run. North links is a mystery. I did not see it running but that is not to say that they didn't work on it. Here is my prediction - there will be some scattered lines but not that bad. Today was packed powder and I think the first half tomorrow will be nice and then the ware and tare will show up on the natural trails from the volume.


MRG opened today. I wonder if that has any significant impact on crowds at SB???

[Benski]

North links opens at 10. I think this is one of the worst weekends of the year since the crowded have started come but Ellan is closed.


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[sglatham]

My compliant is not being at Sugarbush! And it's all Win's fault too! I am sure he conspired to have my various family obligations all come this weekend! Can you believe that? What a bastard!

[Orca]

Heavens Gate is down on maintenance delay on another prime Saturday.

Reality is defined by cause and effect relationships overlaid with random occurrence. In the short run, one cannot easily separate out the random events from those driven by the structured patterns that are governed by cause and effect. However, as maintenance issues continue to accumulate with regularity, it is beginning to stretch credulity that those maintenance issues are "unlucky" random occurrences. The breakdowns increasingly appear to be a pattern that is the result of real underlying root causes. No one should be under the illusion that things will get better until those root causes are identified and remediated. I am hopeful that management is not under that illusion.

[gostan]

What is anybody going to have to complain about this weekend?😀

Obviously, I wrote a bit too soon with Heaven's Gate on hold & North Links on delay. Notwithstanding, the skiing conditions are magnificent.

[Njski]

What is anybody going to have to complain about this weekend?��


Heavens Gate is down on maintenance delay on another prime Saturday.

Reality is defined by cause and effect relationships overlaid with random occurrence. In the short run, one cannot easily separate out the random events from those driven by the structured patterns that are governed by cause and effect. However, as maintenance issues continue to accumulate with regularity, it is beginning to stretch credulity that those maintenance issues are "unlucky" random occurrences. The breakdowns increasingly appear to be a pattern that is the result of real underlying root causes. No one should be under the illusion that things will get better until those root causes are identified and remediated. I am hopeful that management is not under that illusion.

[volklmantras]

Heavens Gate is down on maintenance delay on another prime Saturday.

Reality is defined by cause and effect relationships overlaid with random occurrence. In the short run, one cannot easily separate out the random events from those driven by the structured patterns that are governed by cause and effect. However, as maintenance issues continue to accumulate with regularity, it is beginning to stretch credulity that those maintenance issues are "unlucky" random occurrences. The breakdowns increasingly appear to be a pattern that is the result of real underlying root causes. No one should be under the illusion that things will get better until those root causes are identified and remediated. I am hopeful that management is not under that illusion.

Along with HG chair down, there is apparently a no more skinning/hiking allowed at Mt. Ellen, at least that's what I was told by the Sugarbush rep as I had made my way up from the base at 12:00pm today.....told that because Castle Rock had been "torn up" from folks skinning up no one was being allowed to skin up Mt. Ellen....as they had been able to do for years past......the hits just keep on coming.......told to go ski at South....well, I can't get to the summit by chair at South so how bout you let me make my own way up there??

Oh and when I went to season ticket office to pick up my pass for the year, no one in that office had heard of any NO HIKING policy on Mt Ellen....nice job spreading the word corporate wide...such a joke....

Looking forward to the day when I pay for a season pass at a mountain that doesn't have a summit chair go down on a weekly/daily basis and has an uphill skier policy....this is getting old.

[Hawk]

Dude, I am gong to say this once again. Instead of marching up to the base and walking by all the hard working mountain people getting ready for next weekend, try going the path less traveled. The whole skinning issue has been out there forever. Enter north from the route less traveled. I will leave the creativity up to you. I bet you have more success. Rules are for people who follow rules!

As you were.....

Along with HG chair down, there is apparently a no more skinning/hiking allowed at Mt. Ellen, at least that's what I was told by the Sugarbush rep as I had made my way up from the base at 12:00pm today.....told that because Castle Rock had been "torn up" from folks skinning up no one was being allowed to skin up Mt. Ellen....as they had been able to do for years past......the hits just keep on coming.......told to go ski at South....well, I can't get to the summit by chair at South so how bout you let me make my own way up there??

Oh and when I went to season ticket office to pick up my pass for the year, no one in that office had heard of any NO HIKING policy on Mt Ellen....nice job spreading the word corporate wide...such a joke....

Looking forward to the day when I pay for a season pass at a mountain that doesn't have a summit chair go down on a weekly/daily basis and has an uphill skier policy....this is getting old.

[Hawk]

I can understand the frustration on this one but believe it or not I can't blame the mountain. The report I got was that one of the wheels on the towers somewhere failed so they have to replace it. They had the part so they had to bring the part up Climb the tower and replace the wheel. In my opinion this is not something that could not have been caught and it does occur at every mountain. The lift was down for half a day.

I will chalk this up as HG is jinxed.

Heavens Gate is down on maintenance delay on another prime Saturday.

Reality is defined by cause and effect relationships overlaid with random occurrence. In the short run, one cannot easily separate out the random events from those driven by the structured patterns that are governed by cause and effect. However, as maintenance issues continue to accumulate with regularity, it is beginning to stretch credulity that those maintenance issues are "unlucky" random occurrences. The breakdowns increasingly appear to be a pattern that is the result of real underlying root causes. No one should be under the illusion that things will get better until those root causes are identified and remediated. I am hopeful that management is not under that illusion.

[win]

One of the Tower was hit hard my snow from one of the towers. The wind shifted during the night and froze a sheave wheel. It opened and ran for about a half an hour and then an alert patroller riding the lift felt the chair running roughly and called for an inspection. When the tower was climbed our mechanic saw that the sheave had been damaged by the ice should to be replaced. On further examination they realized that all four had been damaged and should to be replaced. While the lift could have run that would have been risky and could have resulted in a de-roping. So the right call was made to replace all four. It takes about 30-40 minutes to replace a sheave so that was the cause for the delay yesterday. Heaven's Gate has essentially been rebuilt except for the metal and has been running beautifully.

North Lynx was a huge effort to get ready because of the heavy snow on all the chairs and the ramps and the prior day we said the lift would open at 10am which it did.

The two final overhauls are occurring on Sunny D and Northridge. Like Heaven's Gate Northridge is essentially being rebuilt by Dopplemayr - new drive, new communications line and new electronics,
The custom communications lines were over two weeks delayed in shipment from Europe so Dopplemayr has been working overtime to try to catch up and have it ready on time.

[sglatham]

Better to hear the bloggers bitch than to de-rope. Gotta be safe first.

[Orca]

Thanks for the update, Win. We all hope that your capitalization of the lift systems pays dividends in decreased down time and increased safety margin.

Nature has given Sugarbush a wonderful start to the season. May trends continue!

[Hawk]

Absolutely right! Would not want to be on a chair that the cable falls off. I have seen video of that and it does not look very fun. It sort of looks like a chair on a bungee chord. if you don't hit the ground you get severely tossed around.

BTW - people on message boards are not referred to as Bloggers. A blog is a very specific posting that is maintained by one person. Like Win's Word or the Stoke exchange. Those are Blogs. This is a message board, we are a community. Everybody has the right to post, comment or whatever.


Better to hear the bloggers bitch than to de-rope. Gotta be safe first.

[Hawk]

BTW we went to Mad River Glen on Sunday. I think it had to be one of my best days there in a long time. There was no one there. We skied top to bottom and got right back on the singe. Coverage was excellent and everything was open except upper Paradise. I can't remember coverage that good this early.

[win]

I am really happy to see our neighbor open this early. They had a tough start last year. This storm was great for them. Glad you are spreading the word Hawk.

[gostan]

Win
Speaking about openings, is Mt. Ellen's opening scheduled for this Friday or this Saturday? Website states that Mt. Ellen park opens on Friday the 19th, but is silent on opening of balance of moutain. The conditions at Lincoln peak were fabulous this past weekend. Thx.

[shadyjay]

Win
Speaking about openings, is Mt. Ellen's opening scheduled for this Friday or this Saturday? Website states that Mt. Ellen park opens on Friday the 19th, but is silent on opening of balance of moutain. The conditions at Lincoln peak were fabulous this past weekend. Thx.

Per this afternoon's snow report:

Get excited for this weekend! Mt. Ellen will be opening Friday, December 19th, while Sunny D and the Slide Brook Express are scheduled for Saturday, December 20th. If temps stay cold we're hoping we can be 100% open for the weekend.

With that, I'm guessing Friday what we won't have is Sunny D, including the park. If it's a "soft" opening, it just very well may be GMX and Summit and possibly North Ridge. Saturday, it's looking like everything will be open. 100% is the plan. I'm guessing conditions will be pretty sweet over at Ellen.

But forget Ellen for the moment: conditions continue to be pretty sweet at Lincoln. For those who were out today, if you didn't make it to Heaven's Gate, you were missing out. It was like 3 different mountain weather zones out there: cold on the lower half, mid mountain had some fog, and the upper 2/3 of Heaven's Gate was basking in 40 degrees of an inversion, under a bluebird sky and soft snow. The conditions on Ripcord were sublime. I also found Upper OG and Spills to be VERY enjoyable as well. Worst visibility I found was over on the Valley House side. Snowball was like riding through the fog. But very enjoyable.

I've never seen a non-holiday weekday with so many people taking pics at the top of Heaven's Gate. I'll post one a bit later on, but it was quite the view, with the mountain peaks poking out beneath a sea of clouds and fog.

[phin]

after staying away from heaven's gate since friday, it was a real treat to ski it today.

[HowieT2]

Skied hg before and after the outage Saturday. The visibility was nill. Worst I can recall. Benski said paradise was good. Didn't try going up there Sunday.

[ReefBum]

Per this afternoon's snow report:


With that, I'm guessing Friday what we won't have is Sunny D, including the park. If it's a "soft" opening, it just very well may be GMX and Summit and possibly North Ridge. Saturday, it's looking like everything will be open. 100% is the plan. I'm guessing conditions will be pretty sweet over at Ellen.

But forget Ellen for the moment: conditions continue to be pretty sweet at Lincoln. For those who were out today, if you didn't make it to Heaven's Gate, you were missing out. It was like 3 different mountain weather zones out there: cold on the lower half, mid mountain had some fog, and the upper 2/3 of Heaven's Gate was basking in 40 degrees of an inversion, under a bluebird sky and soft snow. The conditions on Ripcord were sublime. I also found Upper OG and Spills to be VERY enjoyable as well. Worst visibility I found was over on the Valley House side. Snowball was like riding through the fog. But very enjoyable.

I've never seen a non-holiday weekday with so many people taking pics at the top of Heaven's Gate. I'll post one a bit later on, but it was quite the view, with the mountain peaks poking out beneath a sea of clouds and fog.
Ditto on HG as the place to be yesterday. Snow was great as were the views!

180

181

182

183

184

[Benski]

Skied hg before and after the outage Saturday. The visibility was nill. Worst I can recall. Benski said paradise was good. Didn't try going up there Sunday.

The fog was only an issue on og and ripcord.


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[win]

Yup. My fault :-)

[HowieT2]

what is falling from the sky?

[Hawk]

It's that other stuff that no one likes to say. Just in time for my vacation. But everything it great. Happy Happy. Joy Joy.

[HowieT2]

It's that other stuff that no one likes to say. Just in time for my vacation. But everything it great. Happy Happy. Joy Joy.

my offer stands. besides, will be followed by upslope fluff tonight.

[Hawk]

We will see Rabbit. We will see.

[bumpcrasher]

After reading today's snow report, I must ask...is the North Ridge Chair broken again??
Was looking forward to Mt. Ellen's opening tomorrow but may go elsewhere if the North Ridge Chair is down.

[ducky]

From Win's Word:

At North Ridge, that is also the case. The two communications lines are new--these connect the top terminal with the bottom and carry all the electronic impulses. So, too, are the drive and the electronic circuit boards in the terminal. We hired lift manufacturer Dopplemayr to perform this work. Unfortunately, the custom communications lines manufactured in Europe were over two weeks late in arriving, setting Dopplemayr’s schedule back. They have been working overtime and as fast as possible and now expect to have everything ready for the Tram Authority’s inspection early next week. It is disappointing that they could not meet the goal of having it ready this Friday, but the delivery of the line was beyond their control. Because of this, we will be allowing any Mt. Ellen passholder to ride Slide Brook and ski Lincoln Peak until the work on North Ridge has been completed. The Slide Brook lift is scheduled to spin on Saturday and then every day (weather permitting) until Mt. Ellen closes the last Sunday of March. Sunny D will also begin operation for the season on Saturday. - See more at: http://www.sugarbush.com/blogs/wins-word/our-recent-storm-and-mt-ellens-opening-400#sthash.eLVvAF8K.dpuf

[Dblshot]

Bummer. Wasn't that a Poma originally? Did Dopplemayr move it in '95 so it became a hybrid? I hope it can be running soon, one of the best lifts at SB.

[Tin Woodsman]

Bummer. Wasn't that a Poma originally? Did Dopplemayr move it in '95 so it became a hybrid? I hope it can be running soon, one of the best lifts at SB.

Agree. Arguably the 2nd best across the two mtns behind only CR for me. Get to access the best of what Ellen has to offer in one, short, digestible lift ride.

[Benski]

Bummer. Wasn't that a Poma originally? Did Dopplemayr move it in '95 so it became a hybrid? I hope it can be running soon, one of the best lifts at SB.

I have heard the same thing. Also from what I have heard when they moved the north ridge, they had a box of "spare" parts and that was when the lift started braking down. Hope it works this time.
When did sugarbush start these lift projects?

[HowieT2]

We will see Rabbit. We will see.

more reason for you to cheer up. from win

As you know, we added a significant number of new low-energy snow towers and guns at both mountains over the summer. We have been so pleased with the results that we have purchased another 63, and are installing them this week.

[Njski]

A suggestion for Win; I think the live web-cams on your website are great, and you are to be commended for showing the lift corrals, (because sometimes the crowds/herds can be quite scary!), but it would be great if you had a few more showing the actual skiing. Focus them on a popular trail perhaps. Gives us a better idea of the conditions as opposed to the wait at the lifts.

[Benski]

Also there should be a valley house cam so we can compare lines between the valley house and bravo.

[Dblshot]

The HG camera pointing up Downspout would provide some entertainment.

[Hawk]

I totally disagree. I like the cameras the way they are. With the SB App you can peak at the cam on busy days and know if lifts are shut down, open, line size. It has saved us or helped us on many occasions. Nothing worse than going to a lift and finding out it is not running or the line is 30 minutes long. If anything just add cameras.

[Njski]

I totally disagree. I like the cameras the way they are. With the SB App you can peak at the cam on busy days and know if lifts are shut down, open, line size. It has saved us or helped us on many occasions. Nothing worse than going to a lift and finding out it is not running or the line is 30 minutes long. If anything just add cameras.

Hawk, you don't disagree. That is exactly what I am suggesting. Add a few more to show both the lift lines, and the skiing.

[Hawk]

Your are right. Sorry I misunderstood. Somehow I thought you wanted to just change the point of view. Carry on.

[gostan]

Eating lunch @ CRP... Tried to open up with My Ellen this am, but. GMX was not running so I headed back to Lincoln.. I understand that GMX was frozen.. I decided not to wait for the blow dryers to do their thing.

[win]

Yes, icing caused about a two hour delay in getting GMX open. We will be looking next summer at some more cams on the mountain. Didn't get to it this year.

[HowieT2]

Where was everybody this weekend?
Felt like old times.
Got in plenty of woods before the xmas eve rinsing.

[Hawk]

Skiing was great over at Ellen yesterday. We did a few runs on North Linx and then headed over. Looks like our timing was pretty good. Coverage and conditions at ME were mid winter. We did multiple runs on Black Diamond, Bravo, Exterinator, Cliffs and Encore. I had Brand new skis and came out with not a scratch on the base. Now that is my definition of Mid season conditions.

Skiing today. Looks to be no one here. It will be nice to get one more day before the onslaught. Headed home for 72 hours of Chistmas and then back up!

I just hope that the mountain plans to be very aggressive with the recovery plan. I don't know what is up with Christmas and new years in NE. Someone must have really pissed off the higher powers. Does anybody know the last winter when we didn't get a warm up and R*#@???? Some of you old timers must know.

[sglatham]

While there was an epic thaw pre-Christmas last year, the actual holiday period had a snow storm with a second one following on Jan 2nd. If you're question is when was the last time there were mid winter conditions with no rain over the entire holiday period then someone else will need to answer because my guess is that is something that happens once a generation.

[HowieT2]

the xmas new years week is notoriously bad. we actually had been lucky before last season. IIRC '10, '11 and '12 we had good conditions.

[HowieT2]

Skiing was great over at Ellen yesterday. We did a few runs on North Linx and then headed over. Looks like our timing was pretty good. Coverage and conditions at ME were mid winter. We did multiple runs on Black Diamond, Bravo, Exterinator, Cliffs and Encore. I had Brand new skis and came out with not a scratch on the base. Now that is my definition of Mid season conditions.

Skiing today. Looks to be no one here. It will be nice to get one more day before the onslaught. Headed home for 72 hours of Chistmas and then back up!

I just hope that the mountain plans to be very aggressive with the recovery plan. I don't know what is up with Christmas and new years in NE. Someone must have really pissed off the higher powers. Does anybody know the last winter when we didn't get a warm up and R*#@???? Some of you old timers must know.

the temperatures after the r%^&*n don't look all that great for snowmaking.

[Dblshot]

Hopefully it will stay soft and not hard freeze. What a weekend, no crowds, ski right onto CR chair.

[win]

Last weekend was busier that this weekend normally is but with the mountain open 100% everyone was spread out. We got a surprise 3" last night so skiing this morning was really nice and it is a bit colder than forecasted. Looks like rain begins tonight with the heaviest tomorrow night. Fog and wind won't help. It begins to cool down slowly on Friday, so the wet may get better absorbed. There won't be great snowmaking temps for a few days but we are hoping the base we have will hold up well enough to groom things out starting Thursday night or Friday. Once temps return we will see where to prioritize snowmaking at both LP and ME. I am hoping we can finish Sleeper and Snowball and Racers Edge and Stein's without having to go back and replenish a lot of trails. But we will see. At ME we want to finish the Park and Which Way and get to Cliffs and hopefully not have to back track too much.

Two Christmases ago was the year of the Moose and we had great skiing until the very end of the month as I remember.

[Njski]

What's the story with GMX? I see it was delayed opening, then closed today. Not sending the right message after last year's Christmas debacle.
No GMX and no North Ridge = No summit access at Mt Ellen

[Plowboy]

"Eye On The Sky: Looking back through the records at the Fairbanks Museum, it has rained or snowed on 67 of the past 120 Christmases, but snowed on only 31 of them. So there is some type of rain or snow on half the Christmases, and just rain about 25 percent of our Christmases. Not uncommon, it would appear.
-Mark"

[The Poacher]

My family is coming up Sunday for the week, I am curious how well the snowpack held up? I'm guessing not well since the snow report yesterday said 100% open today and it is really 67 trails. Also, is there any update on Northridge? Is this really going to be 2 years in a row with the best lift at North not running over xmas week?

[The Poacher]

I didn't like the tone of my last post. I am still super pumped to come up to the Valley again and 70 or so trails is still better than many Xmas weeks, especially after this rain. However, I am very disappointed I am spending another year discussing the lifts over xmas ham.

[Orca]

Merry Christmas day to everyone!

Does anyone have any theories on the following discrepancy: SB is reporting a season total of 80" and MRG is reporting less than 60"? I have a very hard time believing that a difference of over 20" could be real. Anyone with any historical sense for systematic over/undercounting snowfall?

[Benski]

Sugarbush opened a month before Mad River and is a little higher in elevation.

Yesterday was like spring skiing. There was still plenty of snow on what natural snow trails. Even did the natural half-pipe without a problem.

The rain is already gone but north lynx in on windhold.

[Orca]

Sugarbush opened a month before Mad River and is a little higher in elevation.

Yesterday was like spring skiing. There was still plenty of snow on what natural snow trails. Even did the natural half-pipe without a problem.

The rain is already gone but north lynx in on windhold.

SB opened earlier than MRG, but I am pretty sure neither place waited until they were open to start counting snow accumulations -- so I doubt that explains it.

Stark Mountain is slightly shorter than the SB peaks, but not significantly enough to account for a gross disparity in snowfall.

[HowieT2]

I think they do count snowfall by season.

[win]

We start counting snowfall around November 1st when our snowmaking begins. I am not sure when MRG starts.

We did get a lot of rain last night, but the mountain held up better than I feared. All of the trails where we have made snow are in good shape. We kept the groomers off them last night with the exception of Pushover to let the moisture drain out of the snow and will only start grooming with the second shift tonight to get as much moisture out of the snow as possible before we put machines on the mountain. Therefore, we will have fewer groomed trails that normal tomorrow but the temperatures are going to be in the 30s so the snow should be soft as least mid-mountain down. We will probably open with about 80 trails and after Patrol does their check, I suspect more with open. We will make snow tonight on part of Upper Jester and Upper Organgrinder at LP and on Upper Rim Run, Panorama and Looking Good at ME, That is probably as far down as we can get with the forecasted temperatures. Tomorrow will be a heavy grooming plan.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Think cold and snow!

[HowieT2]

Nrx is running. Thankfully.

[win]

I think I jinxed it. Around 1pm the small motor that cools the main motor blew a fuse. It looks like the motor will have to be replaced. Trying to find one now. It is a quick fix once we find a new motor. Hopefully, we can find one today.

[win]

We found a motor and going to pick it up now. It will get installed tonight or early in the AM with goal of having it open on time tomorrow.

[gostan]

Win
The entire mountain operations crews should be commended because the skiing this morning was great.

[win]

Thank you, Stan. They are frustrated with the weather but really trying to do the best they can. I road in a groomer last night up to ALLYN'S and was impressed with the snow depth on trails like Downspout. Last night's rain was more than the forecast so we are keeping the natural terrain closed today to try to keep as much as possible. We lost the snowpack on the SB roads so we can't run that until we get more snow. At least temps for snowmaking starting this afternoon look really good for several days. Motor on NRG in being installed as of this post 9:16 am.

[chrisinvermont]

Win, just wanted to toss this out here. I have a mount Ellen plus pass and Friday night I made plans to ski south based upon the snow report that stated NRX was still down and we were able to ski south. When I got off my first ride up bravo I got your email about NRX being open and MT Ellen pass holders needed to be at north. None of the lifties scanning tickets could tell us if we were using one of our 5 days. I emailed this morning and your great customer service staff confirmed I was charged a day and credited it back.

Given the late notice of NRX being open it would be nice if you credited everyone back the day. Not sure it's many people but it would be great if they don't all have to email to get the credit. On a related note, I'm not sure if it's possible but it would be great to get the first snow report of the day up by 6:30 when I head out from Burlington. Sometimes they are updated but often I don't see them until I'm already onsite.

Thanks for coming back here this year and providing real time updates. Also thanks for all the upgrades this year, hopefully NRX will get the kinks worked out soon. I know that lift was a mess of different parts from different manufacturers and it needed the work.

Chris

[win]

Thanks, Chris. You were the second that brought this to our attention and your idea of crediting the ME Plus people who skied here the other day is a good one. I should have thought of it myself. Many thanks.

We do try to get the snow report out early but it is tough to get it by 6:30am. We do try to have it out before 7am. The motor that cools the pain motor is totally new so that should last for years. All the parts are now Dopplemayr, so that will be a huge improvement.

Win

[arc1]

Soooo, where are the snow guns? Only enough for 2 runs on LP?
Nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[skivter0310]

So is North Ridge chair going to be closed all day today? I thought that the updates would at least be done after the holidays??


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[Dblshot]

I can understand Sunrise and Sleeper for additional terrain off GH and NL, but only two trails? I would hope with all the marketing of new towers they would be in resurface mode and putting down 4-6" on a trail and moving to the next. 4-6" of dry snow....Lower Snowball/Racers Edge could use some love. Fling is starting to look like Downspout. Mtn Ops been dealt a tough hand this week, lots of Tums and Pepto being consumed I'm sure.

[win]

As the temps come down we are moving down the mountain and will use the maximum water we can. Focused on Sunrise and Sleeper and with use any extra water available in that area when temps are low enough. NR is scheduled to open. Hopefully soon. They is a circuit fault on the emergency brake they are chasing down. There are likely to be some bugs like this for a bit will the new electronics that were installed.

[win]

NRX opened. We identified that there was irregular voltage getting to the drive. Having Dopplemayr back first thing the AM to check and make sure it is corrected properly.

[win]

Further Update. It is still experiencing reset issues. Now we think it is in our brand new drive that Dopplemayr installed this summer. Needless to say, this is very frustrating and I am not at all pleased with Dopplemayr right now. They did put one of their top guys on a plane from Salt Lake. The lift is running but if it stopped again and we could not get a reset we would have to evacuate it on the diesel which takes a lot of time on this lift because of its length. Rather than put our guests at risk of that today, we are running it continuously and continuing the diagnosis and hopefully have it all figured out by tomorrow.

We do have three choices for our new Valley House lift, so how this turns out may influence my decision on the new lift.

On top of that Sunny-D had to been shut down tomorrow. We seem to have a problem in the gear box, So it is being opened up. Hoping it is just the bearing which is an easy fix. This is a real inconvenience to those using the park and also to those looking for good beginner terrain off of Sunny-D.

I really do apologize to all for these inconveniences. Hopefully, we get everything out of the way now.

[Dblshot]

Win- the honest updates are much appreciated. Hope you get the issues resolved quickly.

[Orca]

Thank you, Win. This problem is harder on you and Sugarbush Ops than anyone else.

[ducky]

Excellent updates, Win. Appreciate the honesty even if not such good news for now.

[win]

Thanks. My team is really bummed. They pride themselves on giving everyone a great experience.

Doppllemary tells us they are confident they know what the issue is and their guy will be here first thing in the morning to fix it. So we are expecting to have NRX running in the AM even though it may be delayed. Hopefully, I did not jinx things with this post.

Sunny-D will not run tomorrow and until we get the gear box open we will not know what the extent of the damage is. Tom Kerr who does repair work all over the world and is intimately familiar with Sunny-D was on the scene today and will let us know tomorrow what the fix is.

[arc1]

[emoji107]

[gostan]

Who cares if the lifts don't work when the snowmaking is so utterly pathetic?
Compared to any any other comparable mountain its a sad joke . Most are at about 50% snowmaking.
I've bought passes for my family for 20 years. I'm done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Freedom of speech....Freedom of choice........Ski ya somewhere else. 😢

[The Poacher]

I love Sugarbush so much, but the constant lift problems have become the expectation. And yes, the snowmaking right now is weak. By the way, I work on motors, and to find irregular voltage at this stage is flat out amateur hour.

[Njski]

Slow steady growth is the way to go, and win is to be commended for a smart business sense. However, one must remember that like a house, this whole thing is built on a foundation (skiing infrastructure), and that foundation is cracking.
I used to check the ski report to see how many trails will be open. Now I have to make sure important lifts are not down. Getting a reputation is easy, losing it is much harder.

[HowieT2]

I don't know motors, but it seems to me that after making a concerted effort to refurbish the lifts and those very same lifts having problems, the conclusion is unavoidable that the people running the lifts don't know what they're doing. Maybe I'm wrong, but my impression is that the lift issues became acute last season following the departure of the experienced lift mechanics. All lifts have issues from time to time. That's why every mountain employs lift mechanics. It used to be when an issue arose, it would be addressed and the lift would be running in short order. Now, it seems every time there's a glitch, a motor gets blown out or a gear needs to be replaced and its a major issue. I hate to be dissing on the current crew of mechanics. I'm sure they are nice hard working people. And I may be totally wrong. But that's what it looks like to me.