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View Full Version : Mud season road conditions



HowieT2
04-03-2014, 07:54 PM
What's the current status of the dirt roads?
Last Saturday west hill was a disaster. Mud bog up to the hubs.

Ride Delaware ?
04-03-2014, 09:22 PM
I haven't been down them, but I heard today that they are the worst they have been so far, so it can't be any better. There's a bunch of snow on the sides of the road, so I think it's going to be awhile before they totally clear up.

lpy
04-04-2014, 06:56 AM
Still cold enough for everything to firm up overnight. By 10 or 11am though, the dirt roads get soft and messy.

Hawk
04-04-2014, 07:49 AM
Any reports on Roxbury gap Road for tonight. I am thinking that it is a mess and Bethel Gap may be better.

Go Figure
04-04-2014, 10:09 AM
Any reports on Roxbury gap Road for tonight. I am thinking that it is a mess and Bethel Gap may be better.

It's not great on the back roads, ours turns to a sea of mud everyday. Do what most locals do and avoid any unnecessary travel on backroads, even to save a few minutes.

lpy
04-04-2014, 01:24 PM
Bethel Mt. Road is the way to go. Roxbury gap is OK in the morning but messy by afternoon.

Hawk
04-04-2014, 01:35 PM
Thanks people.

shadyjay
04-04-2014, 03:54 PM
Or avoid the mtn roads altogether and just take 107->Blackmer->100.

West Hill was soupy around noon by the golf course.

Hawk
04-05-2014, 07:34 AM
Bethel gap was fine. Saw a bunch of deer. No moose for Howie though.

HowieT2
04-05-2014, 08:23 AM
Bethel gap was fine. Saw a bunch of deer. No moose for Howie though.

I still haven't seen one.

West hill road was mushy last night but seems to be firming up a bit.

Hawk
04-05-2014, 08:28 AM
When you headed out Howie. I guess I will see you on the VH lift. Only thing loading right now.

HowieT2
04-06-2014, 06:47 AM
West hill road got graded last evening.

El Bishop
04-10-2014, 02:54 PM
Roxbury Gap, Bethel Mtn or Exit 9 tonight?

HowieT2
04-13-2014, 06:11 PM
West hill was much improved from last weekend.

Hawk
04-14-2014, 06:57 AM
Is Roxbury calming down yet? We skipped it yesterday. I would bet with all the warm temps this week, things will calm down.

noski
04-16-2014, 12:44 PM
Is Roxbury calming down yet? We skipped it yesterday. I would bet with all the warm temps this week, things will calm down.

Roxbury is closing their side of the Gap road beginning at 9am on Thursday 4/17. It will be closed for about 2 weeks, unless it dries up sooner. Follow progress on the Chamber's Facebook page: www.Facebook.com/madrivervalley

Hawk
04-16-2014, 01:46 PM
Thanks Noski. I had heard that things were knarly up there.

djd66
04-16-2014, 02:36 PM
Not sure if the people in Vermont know about this - but they invented this thing called pavement. Us flatlanders have been using it since I bought my first Model T. All the money I spend in property taxes up there and they still don't have major roads paved. What do they do with all that money?

HowieT2
04-16-2014, 03:50 PM
Not sure if the people in Vermont know about this - but they invented this thing called pavement. Us flatlanders have been using it since I bought my first Model T. All the money I spend in property taxes up there and they still don't have major roads paved. What do they do with all that money?

grading the dirt roads?

noski
04-17-2014, 06:10 AM
grading the dirt roads?

It is less expensive to maintain a good dirt road than a paved road. Also, with roads of the pitch and grade we have, I would never live on it. A few weeks of mud beats a crumbly paved road any day. Give me a good gravel road with deep ditches, especially in the marginal weather/freezing rain. Glazed pavement with a 9% grade is a recipe for an accident.... Gravel roads have grip. But, we appreciate your contribution to our infrastructure (it's being put to good use!)

MntMan4Bush
04-17-2014, 08:01 AM
I tend to agree that the dirt roads have better grip in adverse conditions, but I found it curious that they paved he Warren side at the steepest pitch of the Roxbury Gap Road. Of course I'm not an engineer so there is likely good reason, but just found it strange that it is all dirt except there.

Hawk
04-17-2014, 08:28 AM
I was told that the pavement was put there when the whole slope started to fail. I guess the pavement helps in this case.

Anyway we pay taxes in Warren so that money would not be applied to Roxbury in the case of the Roxbury gap. that is the side that is shut down.

jwt
04-17-2014, 11:23 AM
It is less expensive to maintain a good dirt road than a paved road. Also, with roads of the pitch and grade we have, I would never live on it. A few weeks of mud beats a crumbly paved road any day. Give me a good gravel road with deep ditches, especially in the marginal weather/freezing rain. Glazed pavement with a 9% grade is a recipe for an accident.... Gravel roads have grip. But, we appreciate your contribution to our infrastructure (it's being put to good use!)

Agree with Susan's appraisal of dirt - tougher on cars in one respect, but it keeps one on the road in ice better than pavement. I would challenge her take on 'good use' as the state budget is consistently over spending and under performing in revenue.

Of the roughly $5+B in spending I believe about 35% of that comes from the Washington. $50M-$70 M is the consistent overspending ( IMO) and maybe under taxing in other folks opinions.

Low unemployment is a bright spot.

With local taxes very high - especially if you are not a resident - does tend to bring in only higher income folks , but that is the locals choice - and despite my dismay at that - it's a free country and I can 'move'.

Only about 650,000 people in the state so how else are they going to raise revenue? We do have I think almost 30 states whose budgets are far better off in terms of balancing and some have rebated taxpayers. Imagine. And they are no where near as pretty or as close to large population centers like NY/CT/MA/Montreal.

All about peoples choices.

ducky
04-17-2014, 02:17 PM
Agree with Susan's appraisal of dirt - tougher on cars in one respect, but it keeps one on the road in ice better than pavement. I would challenge her take on 'good use' as the state budget is consistently over spending and under performing in revenue.

Of the roughly $5+B in spending I believe about 35% of that comes from the Washington. $50M-$70 M is the consistent overspending ( IMO) and maybe under taxing in other folks opinions.

Low unemployment is a bright spot.

With local taxes very high - especially if you are not a resident - does tend to bring in only higher income folks , but that is the locals choice - and despite my dismay at that - it's a free country and I can 'move'.

Only about 650,000 people in the state so how else are they going to raise revenue? We do have I think almost 30 states whose budgets are far better off in terms of balancing and some have rebated taxpayers. Imagine. And they are no where near as pretty or as close to large population centers like NY/CT/MA/Montreal.

All about peoples choices.

The difference between resident and non-resident tax rates is in flux and changes every year. Last year, resident rates in Waitsfield were higher than non-resident.

HowieT2
04-17-2014, 06:08 PM
The difference between resident and non-resident tax rates is in flux and changes every year. Last year, resident rates in Waitsfield were higher than non-resident.

That's interesting. How is that?

I just got got clobbered by the tax man in ny. Same thing almost everywhere.

djd66
04-17-2014, 06:56 PM
It is less expensive to maintain a good dirt road than a paved road. Also, with roads of the pitch and grade we have, I would never live on it. A few weeks of mud beats a crumbly paved road any day. Give me a good gravel road with deep ditches, especially in the marginal weather/freezing rain. Glazed pavement with a 9% grade is a recipe for an accident.... Gravel roads have grip. But, we appreciate your contribution to our infrastructure (it's being put to good use!)


I hate to sound like a wise ass,... BUT with this logic, it would be even less expensive to not maintain the dirt roads or all paved road. Sorry - but i could not help myself. I drive down Lover's Lane in Northfield - that road is always a mess. i just don't understand why these roads don't get paved. It would also be cheaper not to resurface Rt. 89 - but that gets paved because it make sense and because i pay a ton of taxes. I'm sure there are locals in Northfiield that have to drive this road + the gap all the time and have unnecessary wear + tear on their cars as a result.

Benski
04-17-2014, 07:03 PM
I hate to sound like a wise ass,... BUT with this logic, it would be even less expensive to not maintain the dirt roads or all paved road. Sorry - but i could not help myself. I drive down Lover's Lane in Northfield - that road is always a mess. i just don't understand why these roads don't get paved. It would also be cheaper not to resurface Rt. 89 - but that gets paved because it make sense and because i pay a ton of taxes. I'm sure there are locals in Northfiield that have to drive this road + the gap all the time and have unnecessary wear + tear on their cars as a result.

paving is very expensive. after a few years there would be potholes that would need repair.

HowieT2
04-17-2014, 08:47 PM
Speaking of which, is the access road being repaved? I recall some talk of that. Most of it is fine, but there a re few sections in need of some love.

ducky
04-18-2014, 05:57 AM
That's interesting. How is that?

I just got got clobbered by the tax man in ny. Same thing almost everywhere.

The resident (homestead) tax rate in Waitsfield is $1.3848, the non-resident rate is $1.3618. In Warren resident s pay $1.3469 while non-residents pay $1.4344. Either way, the difference is not anywhere near as large as some second-home owners claim it to be on this forum and in Waitsfield is the opposite.

http://www.state.vt.us/tax/pdf.word.excel/pvr/txrpdfs/Waitsfield.pdf

http://www.state.vt.us/tax/pvredtaxrates.shtml

HowieT2
04-18-2014, 06:23 AM
The resident (homestead) tax rate in Waitsfield is $1.3848, the non-resident rate is $1.3618. In Warren resident s pay $1.3469 while non-residents pay $1.4344. Either way, the difference is not anywhere near as large as some second-home owners claim it to be on this forum and in Waitsfield is the opposite.

http://www.state.vt.us/tax/pdf.word.excel/pvr/txrpdfs/Waitsfield.pdf

http://www.state.vt.us/tax/pvredtaxrates.shtml

Is that for all residences, or is there a difference between a house and condo/coop?

Hawk
04-18-2014, 07:19 AM
I hate to sound like a wise ass,... BUT with this logic, it would be even less expensive to not maintain the dirt roads or all paved road. Sorry - but i could not help myself. I drive down Lover's Lane in Northfield - that road is always a mess. i just don't understand why these roads don't get paved. It would also be cheaper not to resurface Rt. 89 - but that gets paved because it make sense and because i pay a ton of taxes. I'm sure there are locals in Northfiield that have to drive this road + the gap all the time and have unnecessary wear + tear on their cars as a result.

I agree that sometimes the dirt roads are a total drag. But I can see how the local municipalities do not want to fork over a huge nut to pay for these road projects. It would mean taking out a loan and paying interest to finance the project and then paying it off. It is much easier to budget monies each year out of the running capital budget to maintain dirt. Also these towns are small and quite. If the road gets paved then it becomes a speed way and traffic increases. The dirt slows people down and limits the traffic. I've heard that people living around that area of West Hill prefer that the road stay dirt.

The recent interstate 89 re-paving was completed as part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. It was one of those "Shovel Ready" projects that the stimulus package paid for. Yes taxes paid for it but not local or State taxes and if they didn't do that work, your taxes would not have changed anyway.

HowieT2
04-18-2014, 08:57 PM
I don't know the economics of dirt v. Pavement, but I know paving is expensive. My driveway at home is about 500' long and just to have that repaved was a fortune. I can only imagine the cost to build a road from scratch. I think I recall hearing that repaying the access road was 3-4m dollar project.
My house also sits off a gravel road that the town has to re gravel every few months. We prefer the gravel to pavement as it prevents idiots from speeding on it.
Also, my in laws live in the berkshires in Massachusetts and their roads are dirt too. However, they aren't far from the ct border and the dirt roads that cross over the border are paved on the ct side.

ducky
04-18-2014, 08:57 PM
Is that for all residences, or is there a difference between a house and condo/coop?

That's how the tax rate is calculated for all real estate. No difference between house or condo, that's already in the assessed value.

Looks to be a nice ski weekend!

HowieT2
04-18-2014, 09:01 PM
And btw-they dumped rocks on some of the worst sections of west hill just north of Lincoln gap. Would have been nice if they had also smoothed out said rocks as they are much bigger than gravel, but I guess they were going for the au natural look.

ReefBum
04-20-2014, 05:57 AM
And btw-they dumped rocks on some of the worst sections of west hill just north of Lincoln gap. Would have been nice if they had also smoothed out said rocks as they are much bigger than gravel, but I guess they were going for the au natural look.

I saw that as well.....hopefully the worst is behind us on West Hill!


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