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View Full Version : Win Smith Bloomberg Interview



gostan
03-06-2014, 06:15 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-05/summit-s-smith-sees-good-year-for-sugarbush-ski-resort-audio-.html?cmpid=yhoo

Go Figure
03-06-2014, 10:38 AM
*** Please note: Slide Brook Express Quad is on a maintenance delay and will open as soon as possible. ***

ducky
03-06-2014, 09:40 PM
I rode the Slide Brook yesterday. It was fine.

Ride Delaware ?
03-07-2014, 08:30 AM
*** Please note: Slide Brook Express Quad is on a maintenance delay and will open as soon as possible. ***
It opened around 10:40. Not sure what the issue was.

win
03-10-2014, 12:30 PM
Yes, it was an RPD fault and opened at 10:46. An RPD is a Rope Pulley Device. There are on all sheaves to make sure the haul rope is going through the sheaves properly. They are exposed to the elements and they wear out or can be torn easlily It is a very quick fix but requires climbing the tower.

MntMan4Bush
03-11-2014, 08:57 AM
Back on topic. Pretty good interview. Good pitch for under 30's pass and stuff. Dumb question on their part to ask about $168 lift tickets as it's not comparable to the region and shows they didn't fully do their research, but made Win's comments about $50 tickets that much more stand out.

The comment on last year versus this year being down 9% YTD. That surprises me. Is that 9% as strictly looking at revenue? If so is it revenue for tickets only or inclusive of Food & Beverage? Or is it 9% profit and figuring in factors like more lift maintenance required for more downtime and more snowmaking (though much less than anywhere else. Sorry. Can't let it rest). Just curious if one only arm/segment of the business dipped due revenue or if the issue was more an offset of increased expenses. I had thought that this year we broke the record for skier visits in a single day twice (or maybe 3 times). Granted those are spikes in volumes and may not represent a seasonal trend, but it seems the more days where records are broken the more likely it isn't coincidence and overall visits must be up.

Lastly a suggestion as it relates to skier demographics dropping off. The under 30 pass came out which addresses one need, but the comment on pricing out middle America is true. I remember a few years back I was changing my boots by a ticket window and a guy bought tickets for his family of 5 for the weekend and rentals for all of them for both days. If I was wearing a monocle it would have surely fallen off. Of course I front load my expense with buying gear and season passes so to me on a day I had spent $0 it was an extreme, but I tried to multiply that in my head for as many days as I get in and figured I'd need to get a job replacing Bill Gates who as far as I know holds the job of being super rich.

In any case as a recent skiing dad the kids ski free with a season pass is great. Awesome policy and I tell everyone I know with kids. A few will likely do it but not yet because they don't have the same motivation and the kids are too young to be worth it to them. But last year, and even this year with him being 2, I find it a big challenge to just get out there. I mean I'm too dumb to know that it's way too much work for a few runs with him, but I see it as an investment and the sooner he is independent so will I be. With a second one on the way I'm going to have to be legally retarded to attempt it in the first few years, but I will. Because I am. At least about skiing.

My point is that I would have loved to see a significantly reduced rate for child care for people with a season pass. If the mountain said that they would watch my kid for a half day (3 hours) while I ski then that would have been awesome. I mean they will, but it's insanely expensive on top of everything else. You can buy 8 day packs, but they run $840. If when I bought a season pass they said would you like the infant/toddler upgrade for $300 more and it included 10 half days I'd have probably put one on my pass and one on my wife's without even thinking about it. When he gets to the mini bear age he may ski free with me outside of the program, but that's a lot of money and it will be decision time. I mean I already have him doing cork 1080s off a kicker in a zipper line so good luck trying to up sell me that you can do better.

So you did research and found that there was a lessening number of skiers between 20 and 30. I haven't spent a lot of time researching, but I would guess that you lose a fair amount of people between X and Y regardless of age, but only as a result of them having kids. Some people just aren't quite as dumb as I am by trying to force it to work. I figure once you lose them then it probably takes a long time to get them back, if at all. And if you don't get them back then they probably don't take their kids as often who don't grow up loving the sport as much and then when they get to 20 and 30 years old your numbers are down.

Just a thought. Add a component to season pass holders for kid care and kid programs. You'll be probably one of the few ski mountains that do, but families will flock to you. There are a few people like me that will fight through whatever obstacle is put in front of me to ski. I see fellow parents at the mountain. I'm guessing though that more people who would otherwise stay skiers just give up because it's too much. Childcare is prohibitively expensive for many so the alternative is to not utilize it. If parents got a few hours of free time together a day at a reasonable price I'm sure many would jump on the opportunity. As a result people stay skiers, their kids start skiing early and become addicted and as they get older the skier visits increase as opposed to decrease overall.

Fourwide
03-11-2014, 09:49 AM
MM4B wrote..."The comment on last year versus this year being down 9% YTD. That surprises me. Is that 9% as strictly looking at revenue? If so is it revenue for tickets only or inclusive of Food & Beverage? Or is it 9% profit and figuring in factors like more lift maintenance required for more downtime and more snowmaking (though much less than anywhere else. Sorry. Can't let it rest). Just curious if one only arm/segment of the business dipped due revenue or if the issue was more an offset of increased expenses. I had thought that this year we broke the record for skier visits in a single day twice (or maybe 3 times). Granted those are spikes in volumes and may not represent a seasonal trend, but it seems the more days where records are broken the more likely it isn't coincidence and overall visits must be up."

Whether Win is referring to revenue or profit, it's likely that skier visits are either flat or down, despite the quad packs.

MntMan4Bush
03-11-2014, 10:20 AM
Not necessarily. You can't assume skier visits are down based on anything he said. They may in fact be, but you'd only be making a guess. From on mountain observations it feels like the opposite (which could have been a factor of lifts being open/closed of course), but the record was set/broken at least twice this year for single day visits.

It is entirely possible to have skier visits be up, but have less profit due to more snow making (I believe Win indicated they spent more than ever before this season. Again in my opinion not enough still to keep up with regional competition) or for increased expenses due to lifts breaking and work and parts for them. You could also break it out by F&B versus visits/tickets. It could be that people showed up and after a frustrating day with the lifts said forget it and went home and not to the bars so possibly more people during the day, but less money because they left earlier than usual.

Without data we are all just guessing.

Fourwide
03-11-2014, 01:41 PM
OK, that's all possible, but your earlier posts (and those of others on this board) remarking on increased skier visits remain...guesses.

HowieT2
03-11-2014, 04:16 PM
as for skiing in general. I saw a report not too long ago (I will try and find it and post it) that alpine skiing has been declining. But that was taken out of context because there was a huge increase in Freestyle skiing. The total numbers are not going down.

HowieT2
03-11-2014, 04:30 PM
here ya go.

http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/02/falling-popularity-downhill-skiing/357940/

Hawk
03-11-2014, 08:54 PM
Skier visits are up from last year. That comes from my friends at the lift ticket office. So not a guess. Unless they are lying. But even if I didn't hear that from them, it is totally obvious that there are more people here this year. Easily.

ThinkSno
03-11-2014, 09:34 PM
Back on topic............

My point is......I would have loved to see a significantly reduced rate for child care for people with a season pass. If the mountain said that they would watch my kid for a half day (3 hours) while I ski then that would have been awesome. I mean they will, but it's insanely expensive on top of everything else. You can buy 8 day packs, but they run $840. If when I bought a season pass they said would you like the infant/toddler upgrade for $300 more and it included 10 half days I'd have probably put one on my pass and one on my wife's without even thinking about it.......There are a few people like me that will fight through whatever obstacle is put in front of me to ski...............Anyways, wifey and I both have season passes. He skis free. That's great. So I figure I'd swing in and try and get him a pass with his picture as a memento for his first season skiing and a reminder when he's older of his skiing lineage. Picture is snapped. "That will be $30
Sorry if my next comments fall on deaf ears, but seriously-- was it not your choice to have kids? Quit complaining, off topic.

djd66
03-11-2014, 11:38 PM
Sorry if my next comments fall on deaf ears, but seriously-- was it not your choice to have kids? Quit complaining, off topic.

++++++1

Seriously dude,... Quit your bitching about the 30 bucks. Your kid will ski for free until he is 12 under your pass, no other area in N.E. has this offer.

MntMan4Bush
03-12-2014, 07:04 AM
++++++1

Seriously dude,... Quit your bitching about the 30 bucks. Your kid will ski for free until he is 12 under your pass, no other area in N.E. has this offer.

Please read my original post. I almost had a much different response to you until I saw how he quoted me.

ThinkSno did some digging to combine a much older post of mine with a current one and call it a qupte. Talk about out of context. I haven't mentioned the $30 pass once since I started that thread and had no intention of doing so now (hence why I didn't) Please take back your. :) I'll accept that you were confused by ThinkSno's massaged "quote" from me. I wish I had the time to search around and stitch together a paragraph of select sentences of everything people have said. ThinkSno must work for someone's political campaign. In fact if you read my actual post in this thread I say how awesome my kid skiing for free is and how I market that like crazy with anyone who has ever skied and now has a kid.

ThinkSno - Kind of wishing your parents made a different choice myself right now. The only reason it's off topic is because you pulled a quote of mine form another topic/thread. Kind of douchy in my opinion but hey. My point is that if Win is so concerned about loosing a demographic of skiers (which he mentioned in the interview) to reduce a season pass to $300 for an individual then I am suggesting there is another demographic that drops off as well and that is people with kids. By reducing daycare costs he could potentially get the 2 adult full price passes, plus F&B and whatever as opposed to just the one skier for $300 and their F&B footprint. Some people may never make it to a point to utilize the kids skiing free because they drop out of the game year one and it's harder to get back in sometimes when you get out of a routine. Lucky for you that's not me. I'm here to stick around if for no other reason than to make sure you don't miss me good buddy.

MntMan4Bush
03-12-2014, 07:29 AM
Let me give it a shot:


"Sorry if my next comments fall on deaf ears, but seriously".......“I really like”……..”MntMan4Bush”……“I did a”…….”double-double”………..”When I saw”……..”him”……”driving Win’s Porsche.”…….. “Again my observation”……….”retrospective apologies”……”to him”……….”MntMan4Bush” …………”is my favorite.”......."Quit complaining".........."everyone"........"I'm"......."Off topic".

Wow that was nice. And completely in context.

To be honest I was going to go another route using some choice quotes of yours that included "double meat" and "notice that flagpole", but I figured I'd be nice and keep it clean so we could all enjoy a little smile.

ThinkSno
03-12-2014, 09:13 AM
Very nice.

Apologies if I quoted out of order, but I did at least, quote accurately. I also understood your point(s) in several posts, but they were overshadowed by all the cost-of-child-rearing complaints found within those different posts. I didn't really have to do any digging, I just happened to read through your really really really really long rants while working for someone's political campaign. If pointing that out is "douchy" why does anyone bother reading/writing anything on this board?

A few less whiny parents & their little angels on the slopes leaves more snow for the rest of us.

Hawk
03-12-2014, 09:41 AM
I think the Douchbaggery level on this board it a direct result of some or most of the people actually feeling that they are not having a great season. I mean the combo of Weather, mechanical issues, percieved snow making issues, etc. has made me feel a bit down.
Compaired to past years this year I consider the worst of the last 10. That is me. I bet some on here will say it was one of the best. That is how it goes.

Fourwide
03-12-2014, 11:20 AM
Posting etiquette--don't post anything that you wouldn't be willing to share face to face.

MntMan4Bush
03-12-2014, 11:41 AM
For the record I quoted accurately as well. All the words in quotes you used at some point. I just assumed that at some point you would have also ordered them as I did.

Really long rants = really bored me at work.

Don't remember bringing up any non-ski related child rearing complaints. Feel free to quote me if I did. I'm sure you will. Ergo they are relevant. You went on a tirade about the Porsche event and how Jeeps would have been more appropriate. We all have our objectives in mind. Mine happens to be my kid now. Mine also was a revenue related comment. More parents = more money as most come in pairs. Sustainable because as kids get older and enjoy the sport they will in turn continue in it. You can have your snow too so we both win unless you're ripping on Pushover Chute very often. I chose/am able to spend to meet the costs. One such perk of doing so is being able to talk about it. It's the universal law of being a consumer. Everyone on this thread does it any time they bring up an issue. Feel free to skip over any posts where you see my name as initiated if you like. I won't be hurt.

Happy to say anything I've said here to anyone who will listen. Though I don't think anyone has said anything out of line that would warrant wasting valuable time at the bar rehashing or getting into a pissing contest. Hawk knows who I am and can point me out. Maybe we can enjoy a beer in peace. I'm in the CRP quite a bit. You might even be able to pick me out based on my posts. I'm the douchebag with a kid.

Fourwide
03-12-2014, 11:58 AM
MM4B wrote: "I'm the douchebag with a kid."

Funny! You'd be lost in the crowd at Stratton or Stowe's RitzSpruce Peak!

MntMan4Bush
03-12-2014, 12:10 PM
Good one. I guess it would be like saying I'm the guy wearing a dumb looking hat and at a hipster convention. Not that they'd attend.

s_angel0
03-12-2014, 01:24 PM
i'll chime in on the kid issue......mine are 5 & 7, we have paid our SB daycare dues then micro/mini/sugar bear dues....$270 to have both kids in ski school for one day. But here's my rant: you must pickup by 3pm!! Doesn't even allow time for one apres ski drink!! C'mon! Why can't pickup be 4 for one of the most expensive ski schools in NE? Ok, i'm done. Now can someone please PM me the location of the BC secret stash so that we can enjoy some new-to-us woods this weekend? TIA!

Fourwide
03-12-2014, 02:59 PM
SB daycare, CRP annex?

ducky
03-12-2014, 03:20 PM
Why aren't you folks out skiing? It is fantastic today. Woods are terrific. All normal chairs are running. My only gripe is they have taken away the single's lines at GH and Bravo during the week. Now we have to wait 1-3 minutes instead of getting on a chair with somebody else and meeting someone new.

Hawk
03-12-2014, 03:32 PM
I think you need a real job Ducky. Geeze don't taunt us like that. We may have to show up! :-)

HowieT2
03-12-2014, 04:39 PM
Why aren't you folks out skiing? It is fantastic today. Woods are terrific. All normal chairs are running. My only gripe is they have taken away the single's lines at GH and Bravo during the week. Now we have to wait 1-3 minutes instead of getting on a chair with somebody else and meeting someone new.

Oh I feel horrible about those atrocious lift lines during the week I see on the webcam from my desk at the office. Must be brutal.

Anyway, I don't think anyone is going to have to hunt for secret stashes this weekend. Come git sum.

I just hope I can get out of my driveway tomorrow morning.

Hawk
03-12-2014, 06:41 PM
See you Friday Howie. Got any bright ideas?

HowieT2
03-12-2014, 07:48 PM
See you Friday Howie. Got any bright ideas?

Yes, actually I do. We'll talk.

mountainsider
03-13-2014, 07:09 AM
For those complaining about the 3PM pick up, I treasure the memories of skiing with my boys the last hour of the day. At 17 & 19 now, we seldom see them at the mountain except for when they are hungry.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

win
03-13-2014, 04:16 PM
My comment at the time is that our day skier visits were down 9% from last year and overall we are down about 5%. Last year we had an unusually snowy December and thus the strongest start ever. The latter part of December and January this year were not great and thus our skier visits declined. February is making up for some of this, but we are still down in total vistis about 5% from last year. Don't know who "the firend" is but he/she is mistaken. The reason that may surpirse you is that Cassterock and the woods opened later this year and more people were congregated in less acreage.

HowieT2
03-13-2014, 09:24 PM
My comment at the time is that our day skier visits were down 9% from last year and overall we are down about 5%. Last year we had an unusually snowy December and thus the strongest start ever. The latter part of December and January this year were not great and thus our skier visits declined. February is making up for some of this, but we are still down in total vistis about 5% from last year. Don't know who "the firend" is but he/she is mistaken. The reason that may surpirse you is that Cassterock and the woods opened later this year and more people were congregated in less acreage.

Thank you. That's what I was saying. The mtn can handle increased traffic if all the spokes of the lift system are operating. When they're not, you get lift lines. So all the speculation about quad packers clogging up the mtn, is flat out wrong.

Fwiw-win, I'm kind of puzzled why you are being quite about the vh lift replacement. If it's happening this year, one would think you'd want to get the word out. And if it's not happening this year, one would think you'd similarly want to manage any expectations.

jwt
03-13-2014, 09:49 PM
Thank you. That's what I was saying. The mtn can handle increased traffic if all the spokes of the lift system are operating. When they're not, you get lift lines. So all the speculation about quad packers clogging up the mtn, is flat out wrong.

Fwiw-win, I'm kind of puzzled why you are being quite about the vh lift replacement. If it's happening this year, one would think you'd want to get the word out. And if it's not happening this year, one would think you'd similarly want to manage any expectations.

He did Howie, not sure I read it here or somewhere else, but the general comment was it could happen next season or three years from now, all depends on the powers at the NFS- his comment was they submitted and it is now out of their hands.

Based on extreme environmentalism over the past couple of decades, expect later. Pentagon was built in 18 months , and the Hoover Dam came in 3 years early.

Progressive politics, not free-market enterprise, is the issue.

Hawk
03-15-2014, 08:01 AM
I will obviously not say who said that. I am not buying it also. Quad packs have boosted the visits. Drink the cool aid its your choice.

ml242
03-15-2014, 09:06 PM
My comment at the time is that our day skier visits were down 9% from last year and overall we are down about 5%. Last year we had an unusually snowy December and thus the strongest start ever. The latter part of December and January this year were not great and thus our skier visits declined. February is making up for some of this, but we are still down in total vistis about 5% from last year. Don't know who "the firend" is but he/she is mistaken. The reason that may surpirse you is that Cassterock and the woods opened later this year and more people were congregated in less acreage.

If the mountain is down 5% from last year in a very poor snow year (imo) and last year had the most skier visits in SV history (correct?), doesn't that still make this year a relatively good one financially?

Fourwide
03-18-2014, 08:20 AM
Hawk wrote: "Skier visits are up from last year. That comes from my friends at the lift ticket office. So not a guess. Unless they are lying. But even if I didn't hear that from them, it is totally obvious that there are more people here this year. Easily."

Hawk was wrong. Skier visits down 5%. Some of you might guess a bit less and wait for numbers?

MntMan4Bush
03-18-2014, 12:46 PM
Interesting that it's down 5%. A couple follow up questions (I enjoy looking at numbers)

1) I assume that is overall and not focused on any particular day of the week or weekend only. Last year being a snowier year to start with (though my memory could be off. They all blend into one) there may have been more people inclined to come up on week days,make 3 day weekends, etc. So as a total skier visits may be down because that didn't happen as much. How does it compare for Saturdays only, when most people would feel the effect?

1b) The point was brought up that because of lift issues and some terrain not open due to conditions it would feel more crowded, especially how our mountain is set up. I would agree with that and perhaps that is all. But I do know we broke a couple single day visit records this season so it can't all be perception.

2) Skier visits are down, but what about revenue? How many more quad packs were sold this year compared to last? Since you get the $ up front for quad packs the skier visits may not have a direct impact on revenue (though indirect due to F&B). Just curious. Obviously you don't have to share numbers with us, but it is neat to know. Despite all our b&tching here we do want the mountain to be successful and profitable. It may also be a sign of things to come for the spring. It used to be a ghost town after Feb break. Now there may be a bunch of people sitting on tickets that waited to use them and were patient and we're going to see more people later in the year.

Fourwide
03-18-2014, 02:27 PM
Win wrote: "My comment at the time is that our day skier visits were down 9% from last year and overall we are down about 5%." I'd guess that a "day skier" is anyone who didn't buy a pass of any type (and likely including a quad pack as a "pass," as they're also prepaid). He doesn't appear to be making a distinction between weekdays and weekends. So, pass sales have offset the drop in day visit sales, which makes sense, as the passes serve as a form of insurance (to both seller and buyer). Good question re. revenues. I'd guess that gross revenues are down, but by less than 5%, but profit perhaps down by between 5-10% (reflecting the increased costs Win also noted).

MntMan4Bush
03-18-2014, 04:08 PM
I'm not sure I'd agree with that logic. I think a day skier visit is a unique scan of a pass, season ticket, day ticket or otherwise in any given day. So it would be agnostic about what type of pass. Just logging the number of people year to date which could be less, but if we just looked at Saturdays perhaps it is more (or perhaps not). It also would not infer about revenue. In fact we'd need a lot more to do that. I mean if they sold 30k quad packs last year and 60k this year (just throwing a random number) then revenue woudl be up. Well possibly since maybe some quad packs were former day ticket or season ticket holders. We just don;t know the numbers well enough to guess in an educated way either way. That's why I was curious.

Fourwide
03-19-2014, 08:27 AM
OK, I see your point. Skier visits overall down 9%, something else "overall" (perhaps total revenue?) down 5%. Regardless, this year appears to be a down year to date.

HowieT2
03-19-2014, 08:38 AM
OK, I see your point. Skier visits overall down 9%, something else "overall" (perhaps total revenue?) down 5%. Regardless, this year appears to be a down year to date.

my understanding is that what Win said was that skier visits were down 9% at the time of the interview, but 5% as of his addressing the issue here.

Fourwide
03-19-2014, 09:53 AM
OK, thanks.