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gostan
02-01-2014, 12:53 PM
I m sure that the new Spring Triple promotion will receive many positive accolades from the many Season Pass holders who have had so many good things to say about the Quad Pack promotion. I think tht the Quad Pack is a great promotion, and that the Triple Play may be a tougher sell unless the conditions and weather change in Februry,

angler
02-01-2014, 06:22 PM
They are becoming the dollar store of the green mountains.

ahm
02-01-2014, 06:44 PM
Spot on analogy..........it could be the new moto..............ski cheaper here...............

Hawk
02-02-2014, 09:05 AM
I thought is was "Stand in line here"

angler
02-02-2014, 07:00 PM
We can change the name to $ Mountain.....

Go Figure
02-02-2014, 09:29 PM
We can change the name to $ Mountain.....

It already is $ mountain. The only area getting any real attention is the Clay Brook Resort Area. New paint for the Village Chair '12 and new pads this summer. Meanwhile look at North Lynx with chairs that haven't seen paint since they were swinging in the wind on Northridge and a terminal with factory paint from '85. But when potential Rice Brook buyers are walked from the Rice brook sales office at the Farmhouse to the sight all they see shiny well maintained lifts well manicured lawns[outside service now after mountain employees were fired] and flowers. In the summer north looks like a NELSAP candidate.
Quad/three packs, program brat weekend line cloggers do not matter to the Clay Brook Elitists as they get early ups and all day linecuts while the 2nd class skiers slog through the line like standby ticket holders. Why go to HG on a powder day to wait 30 minutes for some fresh snow when the hoards of Clay Brookers and adventure blazers swarm inat 8:59 and take the fresh seats. After cutting for an hour and a half. Remember many of you backed win when he said "there is plenty of powder for non clay brook when public loads".
It's the 1% takeover.
Bravo was having false start issues all morning and will likely shit the bed[on a powder day] again in the near future.

Mt St Pipier
02-02-2014, 10:07 PM
It already is $ mountain. The only area getting any real attention is the Clay Brook Resort Area. New paint for the Village Chair '12 and new pads this summer. Meanwhile look at North Lynx with chairs that haven't seen paint since they were swinging in the wind on Northridge and a terminal with factory paint from '85. But when potential Rice Brook buyers are walked from the Rice brook sales office at the Farmhouse to the sight all they see shiny well maintained lifts well manicured lawns[outside service now after mountain employees were fired] and flowers. In the summer north looks like a NELSAP candidate.
Quad/three packs, program brat weekend line cloggers do not matter to the Clay Brook Elitists as they get early ups and all day linecuts while the 2nd class skiers slog through the line like standby ticket holders. Why go to HG on a powder day to wait 30 minutes for some fresh snow when the hoards of Clay Brookers and adventure blazers swarm inat 8:59 and take the fresh seats. After cutting for an hour and a half. Remember many of you backed win when he said "there is plenty of powder for non clay brook when public loads".
It's the 1% takeover.
Bravo was having false start issues all morning and will likely shit the bed[on a powder day] again in the near future.

ClayBrookers shouldn't be cutting at HG. It's limited to Bravo and Gatehouse. If it's going on, they should be tossed.

Benski
02-02-2014, 11:07 PM
I don't think they are so cheep. Most mountains have some sort of "special deal."

bumpcrasher
02-03-2014, 07:11 AM
Awesome--yet another $50 lift ticket deal--similar to the Quad Pack to make Saturdays at Lincoln more unbearable.

If the mountain is making $$, how about throwing some towards the Mtn Ops Guys at Mt Ellen?? On most days, they have to deal with numerous mechanical failures on North Ridge and the Summit Quad. On Sunday, they were racing to fix both lifts as they were both broke for only around an hour. Pretty impressive considering the conditions of the lifts they are trying to keep running!

angler
02-03-2014, 08:53 AM
I was using "$ Mountain " as a metaphor. They will do anything to bring in dollars without giving back to the experience on the mountain. There seems to be a lack of consideration towards pass holders. If you want to have deals then make sure you have an infrastructure to support it. Like lifts that work, snowmaking, day lodges that function and the list goes on and on. With these so called " deals" the season pass holders experience is diluted and the loyalty to the mountain is disregarded to say the least.

ahm
02-03-2014, 09:22 AM
The writing is so on the wall folks. It has been trending down from an infrastructure standpoint for years. As loyal SB skiers, it is time you ask yourselves if it truly the right hill for you. It is a fantastic hill when the snow is good and the sidecountry is just fantastic, but when it comes to infrastructure investment for skiing (which is not condos, and not baselodges) there is precious little................

flakeydog
02-03-2014, 09:35 AM
and I thought you meant this:

win
02-03-2014, 02:33 PM
I have not been on this thread for a while and may not be back for awhile as it really does get tiring listening to some of this misinformation. Here are the facts. We have put $50 million into the mountain since purchasing and that does not include any real estate development.

Hawk
02-03-2014, 04:29 PM
I think if you parse through all the ranting you will find that the infrastructure they are refering to is snowmaking system and the lifts. No one is questioning the upgrades to the base area. I love the new base area. But if you subtract the gate house, farm house and School house with all the landscaping and walkways, how much was spent on the lifts and snow making? The only upgrades to those two items have been those new guns, a couple groomers and minor maintenence to the lifts?

angler
02-03-2014, 05:11 PM
Really, thats mature. Not sure you are hearing our criticism through your defensiveness.

HowieT2
02-03-2014, 06:15 PM
Wow, what bitchfest. I've been out in bc. Pretty happy with the outcome. Let's hope we can get some luck this week, score some goods, get some terrain open and stop whining. Embarrassing.

gostan
02-03-2014, 06:36 PM
Wow, what bitchfest. I've been out in bc. Pretty happy with the outcome. Let's hope we can get some luck this week, score some goods, get some terrain open and stop whining. Embarrassing.Howie, I completely agree. I would be more vocal about it, but due to my "no yet start of the season" it is not something I feel comfortable jumping in on.

Where in BC did you go.

gostan
02-03-2014, 06:48 PM
I think if you parse through all the ranting you will find that the infrastructure they are refering to is snowmaking system and the lifts. No one is questioning the upgrades to the base area. I love the new base area. But if you subtract the gate house, farm house and School house with all the landscaping and walkways, how much was spent on the lifts and snow making? The only upgrades to those two items have been those new guns, a couple groomers and minor maintenence to the lifts?Hawk, Win seems to be saying $50M invested since Summit Ventures purchased the mountain (that is a lot of years) "and that does not include any real estate", so I take that to mean that this number does not include Claybrook, Gatehouse, Farmhouse and Schoolhouse.

HowieT2
02-03-2014, 07:33 PM
Howie, I completely agree. I would be more vocal about it, but due to my "no yet start of the season" it is not something I feel comfortable jumping in on.

Where in BC did you go.

Skied a couple days at whitewater. Great mtn but it hadn't snowed in 2 weeks and conditions were challenging (u should have heard the locals complaining). Then we lucked out, got snow and 3 days of insane cat skiing out of Ymir.

Benski
02-03-2014, 08:03 PM
I think if you parse through all the ranting you will find that the infrastructure they are refering to is snowmaking system and the lifts. No one is questioning the upgrades to the base area. I love the new base area. But if you subtract the gate house, farm house and School house with all the landscaping and walkways, how much was spent on the lifts and snow making? The only upgrades to those two items have been those new guns, a couple groomers and minor maintenence to the lifts?
They also installed the gmx.

gostan
02-03-2014, 08:55 PM
I am sure that there are others here who have more facts, but Summit purchased in 2001. My recollection is that there was a huge amount of deferred maintenance that was just not undertaken by ASC. The dollars add up quickly.

MntMan4Bush
02-03-2014, 10:12 PM
Excellent. So people who are waiting in long lines, further bloated by lift closures and poor snow making, which in turn forces more bodies into the same queues, should just sit back and enjoy it all.

Easy to dismiss things by calling it embarrassing or people whiners. That's a good solution. Really solves the problem. I feel better already. (Passive aggressive responses are my favorite. I think they're the funniest.)

HowieT2
02-03-2014, 11:07 PM
Excellent. So people who are waiting in long lines, further bloated by lift closures and poor snow making, which in turn forces more bodies into the same queues, should just sit back and enjoy it all.

Easy to dismiss things by calling it embarrassing or people whiners. That's a good solution. Really solves the problem. I feel better already. (Passive aggressive responses are my favorite. I think they're the funniest.)

I'm just trying to enjoy the winter. I came back to this board and the complaints appeared to my to be expressions of frustration. You feel the need to complain, go right ahead. Rock on. You want to ski elsewhere, it's a free country. I don't have to agree with it, nor do I have to bring myself down by looking at the glass half empty. I don't have the money to own a resort so there's not much I can do to address these complaints, other than go somewhere else and I don't want to do that.

Fwiw- IMHO, you're waiting in lines because only the snow making trails are open which is no ones fault but Mother Nature. The snow making trails are all open, so I fail to see how inadequate snow making has anything to do with your complaints. And none of u are giving any credit to the investments that have been made in the snowmaking system (one may validly debate whether they should have invested in fan guns as opposed to efficient nozzles, but to say they haven't invested at all, is just nonsense) The talk about not renting compressors is proof positive that these complaints are not based on facts or any knowledge of the current state of the system.
The oldest lift and most in need of replacement is being replaced by a new quad. This should go a long way to addressing the crowding/line issues. I doubt it's a coincidence that this is happening upon the completion/sale of the rice brook development. Claybrook got us the new gatehouse, schoolhouse and farmhouse. Rice brook, the new valley house quad. Further development, I suspect will lead to further on mountain upgrades. If you want to have a serious discussion, where that investment should go, I'm all for it. Personally, I'd like to see increased lodge/bar capacity at lp, either through a new lodge or a revamped valley house. I think that's what should be next on the list.

angler
02-03-2014, 11:17 PM
Howie, I completely agree. I would be more vocal about it, but due to my "no yet start of the season" it is not something I feel comfortable jumping in on.

Where in BC did you go.

Really? Please tell me what you like about long lift lines, slick conditions because of poor snowmaking, boat loads of people from the quad pass, triple pass and lifts that are breaking down on a regular basis.

Go Figure
02-03-2014, 11:26 PM
I am sure that there are others here who have more facts, but Summit purchased in 2001. My recollection is that there was a huge amount of deferred maintenance that was just not undertaken by ASC. The dollars add up quickly.

Spring 1995 a seed was planted in a womb during a weekend romp which resulted in a child being born in the fall.
Many gifts were presented before the birth.
A pond was built and bathwater pumped to the top of the hill where it was pressurized with copious amounts of air to make fluffy white snow. [many of you don't remember the days when south had 15% snowmaking coverage, none on OG, Sleeper, Birch and Sunrise to name a few] Bravo for the people to get to the new fluffy manmade and moving the old to the new.[no more couple of weeks a year poma up the newly named Morningstar, when your riding North lynx think about this lift as Bravo with the Northridge double towers.] Fluffy, like stick your pole 16" into the MM snow fuffy.
A Gate[house] to unleash the crowds on the snowy new trails previously barely skied when accessed by a nearly condemned 300' per minute double[ride the Village double, close your eyes and feel the experience of the old Gatehouse{not quite as long, but you get the idea}] Don't forget the hour wait for a 3 minute run.
A long beautiful ride through the "brook" to ski both mountains without taking your skis off 7 days a week. Also provided a couple of "chutes that attract quite the # of poser side country skiers in the same brook.Of course we have the buses that were paid for by ASC, but are now subsidized around 80%+- by taxpayer dollars under the guise of "public transportation".
In 2001 it was time for the child to go to preschool. At this point the child was sent to boarding school where it has been for the last 13[thirteen] years.








It's really time to stop blaming Les Otten for the mountains problems. Soooooooooo many of the newbys around here have no idea of how run down things were prior to ASC buying the hill. I have been here since Roy was driving the bus, so I have an idea. Who remembers The Gallery?

Go Figure
02-03-2014, 11:34 PM
The lift that is currently past due for replacment is NorthRidge, well past it's sell by date. The Village chair should be replaced by a HSQ to take the micro blazers and families with toddler off gatehouse so the lift doesn't keep stopping for 1.5-2 minutes a whack to pick up, move to the loading area, help put the skis back on, little kids [3 or4 yo]that fall off the ramp.
Also HG and Summit are more important than VH and past due.

MntMan4Bush
02-04-2014, 08:32 AM
It is my opinion and I'm glad you feel I'm allowed it. However just because you disagree doesn't make everyone else a whiner or create a need to focus on the individuals as opposed to the mountain. If you think the mountain is great back it up. Tell me about the tons of man made snow you've skied on. How smooth it was and how quick the lift lines were. How it feels like old times. Win hears compliments to his face and he heads off in a certain direction. That's because people are being polite or don't feel comfortable telling him what they really think. The internet gives the opportunity for anonymous feedback, but because of that it is usually honest. When a liftie asks me how my day is. Why should I complain to him? He's freezing his butt off working while I'm skiing. It';s not his fault. "Having a great day. Thanks." With a smile. He deserves it. When asked on a forum where you can speak freely and the other party is also sitting behind a desk in the warmth reading it? Game on.

I would also have to disagree with which lift is in most need. I keep seeing people say the Valley D shuts down a lot or is on wind hold a lot. I honestly can't remember a time that it was, but I admit perhaps I have selective memory. That's a low lying fixed grip double that doesn't get above the trees. I've seen caution tape on broken chairs. I've seen all of the other lower mountain lifts closed and hiked up to it to do reverse traverse to get to HG which was on wind hold so I could be first in line on a powder day when it did open. Now VD may not be the most pretty lift and perhaps this offends Ricebrookers so it's gotta go. (Personally I like the old school look) However the lifts that need to be looked are are the ones that break down all of the time. Looking at you North Ridge. Could there be a less reliable chair? I'd count on Lucy holding the football for me to kick before I'd count on NR. That thing is made of paper mache.

Again my memory could be slipping but I thought the new lodge (farmhouse) came first. Then Claybrook. Claybrook did not bring the new lodge though maybe it was done because no one would pay the asking prices for Claybrook if the lodge was a giant tent. What I mean is that the revenue for Claybrook did not pay for the lodge. Again thought I would be wrong here. It's been a while.

Bad snowmaking doesn't make lines? Did you ski on OG that weekend SB and GH went down? It was glass. Un-edgeable. Like only the kind you can find when the snow that was made on it ages ago was like spraying a water cannon. Ripcord? Only slightly better. As the day went on and it finally started snowing it actually got pretty good. Imagine that. Snow on a trail made the conditions better. What I'm saying here though is that HG was so bad that no one was skiing it which forced people to other lifts and made the lines even longer. Down goes GH again. Let's get in the SB line. Down goes SB.

Yes. natural snow trails not being open exasperate the problem. Agreed. However it also helps highlight there are issues. Every year we go through a "snow making sucks" thread. Then mother nature comes in and bails out the Bush. We're all happy and skiing and everyone forgets about how bad the snow making is. Add in the quad packs this year, longer lines, more lifts breaking, and a stingy mother nature and the problems are in your face an unavoidable.

Plowboy
02-04-2014, 09:02 AM
Who remembers The Gallery?
The Gallery was the restaurant in the Sports Center

How bout the Red Nose Room?

Roy ran a tight ship(bus), the owners(and management) until ASC did nothing, then Les....more or less gave us 90% of the new lifts and snowmaking. But, installed used snowmaking pipes and skimped on lift maintenance. I won't throw out rumors or hear say about SV, but I do know that other then new paving(after 20+ years) and paint not much gets done @ ME all summer.

IMO the NR, HG or VL should be replaced first!! The North Ridge Chair has been a POS since day 1!!!

Now....Bring on the SNOW.....it will make most of us grin ear to ear when we ski some of the best terrain in the East...and if some don't like it....there are plenty of other places to ski or ride.

chrisinvermont
02-04-2014, 09:29 AM
I have not been on this thread for a while and may not be back for awhile as it really does get tiring listening to some of this misinformation. Here are the facts. We have put $50 million into the mountain since purchasing and that does not include any real estate development.


I recently read the article on your book that was in 7 Days (sorry i haven't read the actual book). I find it interesting that the gist of the book appears to be that you saw the writing on the wall at Merrill Lynch and were ignored and shut out by those in charge. Seems like you are taking the same attitude with SB, unless it is praise you don't want to hear it or change anything. I have held out on the bitchfest but there is actual valuable criticism and feedback that you are getting here and now you want to take your ball and go home.

I'm glad you put $50 million into the mountain but where did that go if not to real estate? I am guessing when you state excluding real estate, you are excluding claybrook and ricebrook which were real estate development but including the base area development which would be infrastruture to the ski area and not a real estate development project. The real issue is that while $50 million is great, perhaps it should have been more to keep up with other areas. If it should have taken $75 million to recover from ASC ownership and to keep up with other local resorts, then bragging about the $50 million isn't so great.

You may not hear it Win but I have heard from many locals that ski around VT and NH and people are increasing frustrated with SB. Some of these folks are SB passholders but alot of them ski various areas each year and compare. A friend who is a shop owner subidized passes to SB this year for employees when in the past they did that for Stowe. Everytime I ski with him at SB this year he is not pleased with the conditions and wonders if they should have stayed at Stowe. They will probably return to Stowe next year. These are employees in the ski industry and you have to know they are telling customers and friends the same thing.

Please stay around and keep us updated. I have had a SB pass for almost 10 years now and have no desire to switch ski areas. Read between the hysterics and find the valuable feedback you have been given and use it to your advantage.

southvillager
02-04-2014, 10:25 AM
Let's be fair a lot of work has gone into the mountain recently. I am not sure, but I think Summit Ventures replaced the Castlerock chair. Replaced a chair at ME. Replaced the water pipe from the pond. Replaced the pond after Irene. Built the base lodges at LP. Bought some guns and 3 or 4 groomers. Opened up loads of awesome glades. I think that may add up to $50M.

The question I have is whether that sum is enough for the product to remain competitive to other major ski areas. Maybe ownership should take a ride to Okemo, Stowe or Jay on a busy Saturday and check out the conditions and lines. Maybe they should sample their own product on a busy Saturday after the dust is skied off. After waiting in line like those of us with only a season pass.

In another thread about snowmaking, someone asked how can we possibly improve snowmaking since we have 100% coverage on snowmaking trails. Simple...create a surface that is skiable for intermediates after 9:30 on a Saturday on blue trails. Seriously, it is as simple as that. That is a very, very low bar, but a goal that is rarely if ever reached. Make the place skiable. Get rid of the perma-whales with their horrendous sheets of ice on trails like Lower Organgrinder and Snowball. Make the cruising trails into cruising trails. So people can actually cruise. Take a few minutes and watch the customers try to ski down Snowball in the section just after the entrance to Moonshine. It is a disaster, they cannot ski it. Watch those same folks try to ski Downspout, same deal. Or the end of the traverse. It is a nightmare. I enjoy Paradise and Castlerock, etc., but the majority of my guests and friends just want skiable blue cruisers. And I really like to rip at high speeds on a nice groomer. I'm 50, in a few short years I will be limited to less difficult trails. It would be nice if they were fun to ski, rather than skied off "dust on crust".

I'm betting that more improvements will come. More tickets sold means more revenue, and then larger budgets for infrastructure. I can't imagine that management is trying to create a brand around low quality product at a low price. Right now, cheap tickets, lift lines, and surface conditions are pointing in that direction, but I think it is temporary.

angler
02-04-2014, 11:39 AM
The question I have is whether that sum is enough for the product to remain competitive to other major ski areas. Maybe ownership should take a ride to Okemo, Stowe or Jay on a busy Saturday and check out the conditions and lines. Maybe they should sample their own product on a busy Saturday after the dust is skied off. After waiting in line like those of us with only a season pass.

In another thread about snowmaking, someone asked how can we possibly improve snowmaking since we have 100% coverage on snowmaking trails. Simple...create a surface that is skiable for intermediates after 9:30 on a Saturday on blue trails. Seriously, it is as simple as that. That is a very, very low bar, but a goal that is rarely if ever reached. Make the place skiable. Get rid of the perma-whales with their horrendous sheets of ice on trails like Lower Organgrinder and Snowball. Make the cruising trails into cruising trails. So people can actually cruise. Take a few minutes and watch the customers try to ski down Snowball in the section just after the entrance to Moonshine. It is a disaster, they cannot ski it. Watch those same folks try to ski Downspout, same deal. Or the end of the traverse. It is a nightmare. I enjoy Paradise and Castlerock, etc., but the majority of my guests and friends just want skiable blue cruisers. And I really like to rip at high speeds on a nice groomer. I'm 50, in a few short years I will be limited to less difficult trails. It would be nice if they were fun to ski, rather than skied off "dust on crust".

I'm betting that more improvements will come. More tickets sold means more revenue, and then larger budgets for infrastructure. I can't imagine that management is trying to create a brand around low quality product at a low price. Right now, cheap tickets, lift lines, and surface conditions are pointing in that direction, but I think it is temporary.

I think you are spot on. My question is why should we think this is temporary? There is no evidence to support this assumption. IMO the small changes they did to the mountain equates to putting oil in your car. Minimum requirement! I was at Stowe the other day and three different sets of people on three consecutive lift rides told me they use to be season pass holders at SB and switched because of all the reasons that have been discussed on this forum. Its hard to believe that management is not aware of these problems. The attitude is, like our mountain the way it is or go somewhere else. All anyone has to do is go to the other mountains you mentioned to witness the improvements that have been made and they will realize that SB is far behind the competition on many levels. Whats really disheartening is the attitude "I have not been on this thread for a while and may not be back for awhile as it really does get tiring listening to some of this misinformation."
Are you serious you own a business, you don't like hearing the truth so you are going to put your head in the sand and ignore it? Couldn't believe I read that. So for that and multiple other reasons I am not as hopeful as you.

Go Figure
02-04-2014, 12:25 PM
Watch the Bravo webcam. More of the crappy swales of snow from the low-e guns. If you watch skiers go over them they do not make a dent in pile. This is "fresh frozen" product from last night. Same junk behind the lodge. The footprints are frozen snapshots as the guns were shut off and the pile of "snow" set up like a brick.

The Tree, Little Johns was a fun place.

ThinkSno
02-04-2014, 12:28 PM
I am not sure, but I think Summit Ventures....Replaced the pond after Irene.

Simple...create a surface that is skiable for intermediates after 9:30 on a Saturday on blue trails. Seriously, it is as simple as that. That is a very, very low bar, but a goal that is rarely if ever reached. Make the place skiable. Get rid of the perma-whales with their horrendous sheets of ice on trails like Lower Organgrinder and Snowball. Make the cruising trails into cruising trails. So people can actually cruise. Take a few minutes and watch the customers try to ski down Snowball in the section just after the entrance to Moonshine. It is a disaster, they cannot ski it. Watch those same folks try to ski Downspout, same deal. Or the end of the traverse. It is a nightmare. I enjoy Paradise and Castlerock, etc., but the majority of my guests and friends just want skiable blue cruisers. And I really like to rip at high speeds on a nice groomer. I'm 50, in a few short years I will be limited to less difficult trails. It would be nice if they were fun to ski, rather than skied off "dust on crust".

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, but if the pond was damaged due to Irene, wouldn't insurance cover that?

A possible solution to poor snow years could be to follow other southern NE ski area snow management-- temporarily close trails throughout the day & groom them back into shape.

Hawk
02-04-2014, 12:47 PM
I have to admit I forgot about a few of those items. You are right. One thing, I do not think that lodges are considered realestate as you do not sell them. They are infrstructure but the breakdown needs to come form Win. We can only speculate.


Let's be fair a lot of work has gone into the mountain recently. I am not sure, but I think Summit Ventures replaced the Castlerock chair. Replaced a chair at ME. Replaced the water pipe from the pond. Replaced the pond after Irene. Built the base lodges at LP. Bought some guns and 3 or 4 groomers. Opened up loads of awesome glades. I think that may add up to $50M.

The question I have is whether that sum is enough for the product to remain competitive to other major ski areas. Maybe ownership should take a ride to Okemo, Stowe or Jay on a busy Saturday and check out the conditions and lines. Maybe they should sample their own product on a busy Saturday after the dust is skied off. After waiting in line like those of us with only a season pass.

In another thread about snowmaking, someone asked how can we possibly improve snowmaking since we have 100% coverage on snowmaking trails. Simple...create a surface that is skiable for intermediates after 9:30 on a Saturday on blue trails. Seriously, it is as simple as that. That is a very, very low bar, but a goal that is rarely if ever reached. Make the place skiable. Get rid of the perma-whales with their horrendous sheets of ice on trails like Lower Organgrinder and Snowball. Make the cruising trails into cruising trails. So people can actually cruise. Take a few minutes and watch the customers try to ski down Snowball in the section just after the entrance to Moonshine. It is a disaster, they cannot ski it. Watch those same folks try to ski Downspout, same deal. Or the end of the traverse. It is a nightmare. I enjoy Paradise and Castlerock, etc., but the majority of my guests and friends just want skiable blue cruisers. And I really like to rip at high speeds on a nice groomer. I'm 50, in a few short years I will be limited to less difficult trails. It would be nice if they were fun to ski, rather than skied off "dust on crust".

I'm betting that more improvements will come. More tickets sold means more revenue, and then larger budgets for infrastructure. I can't imagine that management is trying to create a brand around low quality product at a low price. Right now, cheap tickets, lift lines, and surface conditions are pointing in that direction, but I think it is temporary.

HowieT2
02-04-2014, 01:25 PM
It is my opinion and I'm glad you feel I'm allowed it. However just because you disagree doesn't make everyone else a whiner or create a need to focus on the individuals as opposed to the mountain. If you think the mountain is great back it up. Tell me about the tons of man made snow you've skied on. How smooth it was and how quick the lift lines were. How it feels like old times. Win hears compliments to his face and he heads off in a certain direction. That's because people are being polite or don't feel comfortable telling him what they really think. The internet gives the opportunity for anonymous feedback, but because of that it is usually honest. When a liftie asks me how my day is. Why should I complain to him? He's freezing his butt off working while I'm skiing. It';s not his fault. "Having a great day. Thanks." With a smile. He deserves it. When asked on a forum where you can speak freely and the other party is also sitting behind a desk in the warmth reading it? Game on.

I would also have to disagree with which lift is in most need. I keep seeing people say the Valley D shuts down a lot or is on wind hold a lot. I honestly can't remember a time that it was, but I admit perhaps I have selective memory. That's a low lying fixed grip double that doesn't get above the trees. I've seen caution tape on broken chairs. I've seen all of the other lower mountain lifts closed and hiked up to it to do reverse traverse to get to HG which was on wind hold so I could be first in line on a powder day when it did open. Now VD may not be the most pretty lift and perhaps this offends Ricebrookers so it's gotta go. (Personally I like the old school look) However the lifts that need to be looked are are the ones that break down all of the time. Looking at you North Ridge. Could there be a less reliable chair? I'd count on Lucy holding the football for me to kick before I'd count on NR. That thing is made of paper mache.

Again my memory could be slipping but I thought the new lodge (farmhouse) came first. Then Claybrook. Claybrook did not bring the new lodge though maybe it was done because no one would pay the asking prices for Claybrook if the lodge was a giant tent. What I mean is that the revenue for Claybrook did not pay for the lodge. Again thought I would be wrong here. It's been a while.

Bad snowmaking doesn't make lines? Did you ski on OG that weekend SB and GH went down? It was glass. Un-edgeable. Like only the kind you can find when the snow that was made on it ages ago was like spraying a water cannon. Ripcord? Only slightly better. As the day went on and it finally started snowing it actually got pretty good. Imagine that. Snow on a trail made the conditions better. What I'm saying here though is that HG was so bad that no one was skiing it which forced people to other lifts and made the lines even longer. Down goes GH again. Let's get in the SB line. Down goes SB.

Yes. natural snow trails not being open exasperate the problem. Agreed. However it also helps highlight there are issues. Every year we go through a "snow making sucks" thread. Then mother nature comes in and bails out the Bush. We're all happy and skiing and everyone forgets about how bad the snow making is. Add in the quad packs this year, longer lines, more lifts breaking, and a stingy mother nature and the problems are in your face an unavoidable.

I really am sorry to hear about your bad experiences. As I said, I was away the last 2 weekends and so didnt have to deal with both SB and GH being down (however, my wife and kids were up skiing and didnt report any such fiasco). I'd imagine that would be quite the shit show. Otherwise, I have been around and skied about 15 days and havent had a problem with the conditions other than the gnar that mother nature stuck us with in January. I dont ascribe the conditions to poorly executed snowmaking but to the fact that for a month we have been alternating between temps 20 below zero and rain. one can choose to blame the management for this, but personally I think that is misplaced.

As far as on mtn improvements, your recollection is faulty. Claybrook was built at the same time as the new gatehouse. The farmhouse and schoolhouse a year or two afterwards. perhaps you dont recall, but those lodges were a priority for capital improvements at the time. If there is any criticism to be leveled with respect to them, it is that they should have built the schoolhouse bigger with a cafeteria that could accommodate all the kids, such that they wouldnt be crowding up the gatehouse.

With respect to the valley double, I dont think that has much impact on the experience of the majority of skiers, other than beginners taking lessons. someone posted above that it should be replaced with a hsq which, given the length of the lift, is not necessary at all. Regardless, that lift is being moved and I assume refurbished in the process.
As for the Northridge, my experience has been that since they had dopplemyer come in and rework it, its been reliable the last few seasons. It was a disaster before that, but my understanding is that those issues were resolved. Dont know what's going on there this year, but I was under the impression that the NRX did not need to be replaced.

Bottom line is, we have had a horrific stretch of weather impacting conditions and operations. I understand everyones frustrations. I too would like to ski some good snow, in the woods and do what I love to do. and I think this forum is a good place for constructive criticism, but it seemed to me that the complaining above was more in the nature of venting frustrations and tossing blame grenades at the management.

chrisinvermont
02-04-2014, 01:32 PM
One thing, I do not think that lodges are considered realestate as you do not sell them. They are infrstructure but the breakdown needs to come form Win. We can only speculate.

True, we need Win to break it down. I work nationally in real estate development so when I parse Wins comment that it doesn't include real estate development, the key word is development. Clay brook and rice brook are what I would consider real estate development as they were developed and sold for profit. The lodges I would not consider a development in a real estate sense, they are infrastructure for the ski area and essentially required for a ski area. The base lodges aren't sold to others.

If the $50 million doesn't include the base lodges then they must have hired Bob Kiss to manage the upgrades because it sure doesn't look like $50 mil in lifts and snow making as discussed earlier. So far we have identified GMX and Castlerock lifts and some snowmaking guns, part of which was funded by GMVSS.

HowieT2
02-04-2014, 01:38 PM
I think you are spot on. My question is why should we think this is temporary? There is no evidence to support this assumption. IMO the small changes they did to the mountain equates to putting oil in your car. Minimum requirement! I was at Stowe the other day and three different sets of people on three consecutive lift rides told me they use to be season pass holders at SB and switched because of all the reasons that have been discussed on this forum. Its hard to believe that management is not aware of these problems. The attitude is, like our mountain the way it is or go somewhere else. All anyone has to do is go to the other mountains you mentioned to witness the improvements that have been made and they will realize that SB is far behind the competition on many levels. Whats really disheartening is the attitude "I have not been on this thread for a while and may not be back for awhile as it really does get tiring listening to some of this misinformation."
Are you serious you own a business, you don't like hearing the truth so you are going to put your head in the sand and ignore it? Couldn't believe I read that. So for that and multiple other reasons I am not as hopeful as you.

The problem with what you are arguing is that, putting aside anecdotes of people on a lift at stowe, skier visits, season ticket sales, blazer participation has been going up significantly. So the fact is that the mtn is growing and people arent leaving as you say they are. and the people of the MRV chose a long time ago, not to go the path of large scale development like Stowe, ktown, stratton etc. so you can't expect to have the same funds for capital improvements. and I dont want to speak for Win, but what do you want him to say in response to "the mtn sucks, snowmaking sucks, the lifts suck, the crowds suck" which is basically what was being said.

MntMan4Bush
02-04-2014, 01:44 PM
Fair enough on my memory of when the Farmhouse was built. As I said I didn't really recall the timing of it all. Feels like a long time ago and kin of blends together. I'd agree with your statement that the cafeteria is a bit small and add so is the CRP and it also feels like a dungeon, but after enough drinks I hardly notice/care. It's the way it is now and not much can be done about it.

However if it was built the same time as Claybrook, then unless pre-sales of Claybrook units covered both the expense of Claybrook itself and the Farmhouse it may not be fair to say that Claybrook funded it. Again I could be wrong, but I think it was likely an investment to make Claybrook more attractive. For the price of a unit at Clayrbook I'd be pretty steamed if I shelled that out and then had such a nice condo sitting next to such a crummy lodge with a tent extension for the cafeteria.

I think we are in agreement of the VD. It doesn't have much of an impact. I will further add that it almost never goes down. That is why I, and others, question why that is the lift that is being replaced and focused on when so many other lifts have service issues. I have to respectfully, and if need be disrespectfully (I'll do it), disagree about NRX. That lift has always been terrible. The last few years included and especially again this year. Nothing was resolved. Dopplemeyer handed them a broomstick handle and told them when you hear a rattle poke this up above to put the line back on track. Saw them doing it. Best fix ever. Made me feel real secure and confident in the reliability while riding it. (Alright probably wans't what Dopp told them, but it's what they were doing)

Mother nature has handed out some bad cards, but that's kind of the point. Other mountains, in the same snow bands, given the same cards, have performed remarkably better because they have a solid snow making infrastructure that they invested in and produce quality snow. When we get weather like this we can sit around and blame mother nature and wait for her to change her mind on what season it is, meanwhile skiing garbage, or we can do something about it and make good snow so the paying customers can enjoy their experience. That decision lies with management so the blame should too. If all other mountains were crippled right now offering the same icy garbage then I wouldn't have any argument.

HowieT2
02-04-2014, 01:52 PM
Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, but if the pond was damaged due to Irene, wouldn't insurance cover that?

A possible solution to poor snow years could be to follow other southern NE ski area snow management-- temporarily close trails throughout the day & groom them back into shape.
I think thats a good suggestion. They did that a couple years ago when they would groom north lynx at lunchtime.

I dont think insurance covered the snowmaking pond from irene. At least that is what I recall. I dont know why, but I think it cost them close to 1m.

Hawk
02-04-2014, 02:49 PM
Howie, I share the frustration of what Mtnman is saying. I will agree with the basic evaluation. The place has been crazy busy since Christmas and the lift stopages didn't help. It is my opinion that it is the result of the 4 packs. That opinion is shared by every last one of us that come here all the time. Take it for what it is, an opinion. We also think that the increased skier visits from 4 packs, consistant problems with lifts and sub par snow making will destroy the reputation of the resort.

I guess I shouldn't care. eventually we will have the place back to ourselves. It's just a waiting game. ;-)

sglatham
02-04-2014, 02:53 PM
So I had been surprised that Win hadn't chimed in on these threads lately. Now I am surprised that he did so in the manner that he has. Uncharacteristic of him.

Fact of the matter, as the saying goes, when the tide goes out you find out who is naked. In this year (so far) of a natural snow low tide, the 'Bush is naked when compared to the competition. And in a competitive world, that is all that matters. The rest is noise........

Fourwide
02-04-2014, 04:34 PM
The problem with what you are arguing is that, putting aside anecdotes of people on a lift at stowe, skier visits, season ticket sales, blazer participation has been going up significantly. So the fact is that the mtn is growing and people arent leaving as you say they are. and the people of the MRV chose a long time ago, not to go the path of large scale development like Stowe, ktown, stratton etc. so you can't expect to have the same funds for capital improvements. and I dont want to speak for Win, but what do you want him to say in response to "the mtn sucks, snowmaking sucks, the lifts suck, the crowds suck" which is basically what was being said.

Very good point, Howie. There's definitely room for improvement, but Win has put a ton of $$ into the mountain and will continue to do so. Many of the criticisms voiced in this thread are fair, but (as was noted at the start of this discussion), it's a great mountain and getting better. I definitely agree with the point re. improving conditions for the intermediate skier. So, let's be patient, let ownership continue to develop what certainly appears to be a sound plan, put some more snow on those icy whales, and pray for snow (and Northridge)!

angler
02-04-2014, 11:46 PM
The problem with what you are arguing is that, putting aside anecdotes of people on a lift at stowe, skier visits, season ticket sales, blazer participation has been going up significantly. So the fact is that the mtn is growing and people arent leaving as you say they are. and the people of the MRV chose a long time ago, not to go the path of large scale development like Stowe, ktown, stratton etc. so you can't expect to have the same funds for capital improvements. and I dont want to speak for Win, but what do you want him to say in response to "the mtn sucks, snowmaking sucks, the lifts suck, the crowds suck" which is basically what was being said.
I'm not saying that everyone is leaving SB for other mountains. I was sharing my experience to point out that the contributors on this forum are not the only ones to feel this way. What you said about skier visits, blazer participation, season ticket sales, quad packs, ect ect...goes right to the heart of what we have been saying. The infrastructure of SB is not up to the task of providing a quality skier visit when the mountain is not subsidized with natural snow. What we are doing is comparing other mountains in the same band width as SB. In doing so, SB falls short in keeping up with their competition. I don't think we should give SB a get out of jail card (for free) because there has been a lack natural snow. Just the opposite they should be aggressively upgrading the lift systems and snowmaking to keep up with the times. If you want to use another word besides suck, we can. The mountains infrastructure when it comes to snow making, and lift system is below par with other mountains that SB is competing with. I would like Win to acknowledge the obvious, while discussing the 3- 5 year plan to address the issues at hand instead of saying what he said. One would think with all his business experience he would have the ability to overlook form to hear the substance of what we are saying.

HowieT2
02-05-2014, 08:05 AM
I'm not saying that everyone is leaving SB for other mountains. I was sharing my experience to point out that the contributors on this forum are not the only ones to feel this way. What you said about skier visits, blazer participation, season ticket sales, quad packs, ect ect...goes right to the heart of what we have been saying. The infrastructure of SB is not up to the task of providing a quality skier visit when the mountain is not subsidized with natural snow. What we are doing is comparing other mountains in the same band width as SB. In doing so, SB falls short in keeping up with their competition. I don't think we should give SB a get out of jail card (for free) because there has been a lack natural snow. Just the opposite they should be aggressively upgrading the lift systems and snowmaking to keep up with the times. If you want to use another word besides suck, we can. The mountains infrastructure when it comes to snow making, and lift system is below par with other mountains that SB is competing with. I would like Win to acknowledge the obvious, while discussing the 3- 5 year plan to address the issues at hand instead of saying what he said. One would think with all his business experience he would have the ability to overlook form to hear the substance of what we are saying.

Well said. And I agree that there are capital investments that need to be made to maintain a good experience. My impression of the beginning if this thread, though, was that everyone was venting frustration and there really wasn't a way to respond.
Fwiw, like I said, I haven't been around the last 2 weekends, and with slidebrook out of action, haven't been to mt Ellen more than 3-4 days. But my son has been working ski patrol over there every weekend, and he said the nrx hasn't been a problem since they fixed the issue that arose before Xmas. So I am at a loss to understand all the complaints about it on here.
As for snowmaking, seems to me all the snowmaking trails are open so there is no issue with the volume of snow they are producing. Hawk will tell me that the "quality" of the snow is crap, but I'm not qualified to render an opinion about that do I'll skip the debate.

Also, hawk, I don't know how many more people have been lured to the mtn by the quad passes. EVery one I know who purchased, was coming regardless. I do know that skier visits are up, but I don't know that the quad passes have induced a significant increase. Anyone know the numbers???

Hawk
02-05-2014, 08:56 AM
I have asked this question and from People who work at the mountain and from my own inquiries arond the mountain there is no denying that the quad packs have increased the skier visits. I do not know the numbers but have heard that is was significant. It's funny you say that becase everyone i know and everyone I have talk to that has a paper ticket confirmed to me that they bought a quad pack so I feel that my obsevation is correct.


Well said. And I agree that there are capital investments that need to be made to maintain a good experience. My impression of the beginning if this thread, though, was that everyone was venting frustration and there really wasn't a way to respond.
Fwiw, like I said, I haven't been around the last 2 weekends, and with slidebrook out of action, haven't been to mt Ellen more than 3-4 days. But my son has been working ski patrol over there every weekend, and he said the nrx hasn't been a problem since they fixed the issue that arose before Xmas. So I am at a loss to understand all the complaints about it on here.
As for snowmaking, seems to me all the snowmaking trails are open so there is no issue with the volume of snow they are producing. Hawk will tell me that the "quality" of the snow is crap, but I'm not qualified to render an opinion about that do I'll skip the debate.

Also, hawk, I don't know how many more people have been lured to the mtn by the quad passes. EVery one I know who purchased, was coming regardless. I do know that skier visits are up, but I don't know that the quad passes have induced a significant increase. Anyone know the numbers???

MntMan4Bush
02-05-2014, 08:59 AM
As for snowmaking, seems to me all the snowmaking trails are open so there is no issue with the volume of snow they are producing. Hawk will tell me that the "quality" of the snow is crap, but I'm not qualified to render an opinion about that do I'll skip the debate.



The mountains we are comparing to do not just make the bare minimum to open a a trail. Or perhaps that's not a fair statement to SB. Rather once a trail is open they continue to blow snow on the trail throughout the season so the user experience is enhanced with soft snow under foot. They do so even after snow storms, but especially when the season is off to a poor start. They had their guns out weeks ago. They never put them away. SB on the other hand blasts snow to open a trail, says it's open then turns the guns off and stores them for the season. If the trail starts to get bare early they will turn them back on again, but only to blast some wet glob that will freeze and be harder to thaw and make it more resistant to weather changes, but not be very good to ski on.

So while 100% of snow making trails are open the mountains we are comparing to do not just blow snow to open. They blow snow to ski on throughout the season. When mother nature is kind we hardly notice the difference except for the start of the season, but then soon everyone forgets these threads (look them up. Every year. Same time. Then they stop though snow making didn't change) when SB gets bailed out with some storms. That is the "quantity" issue we are referring to. Just being open is the lowest bar to set. Back when there wasn't a ton of people at the mountain that may have been enough since it didn't get skied off so easily. Plus how can you justify the cost if the money isn't coming in. Now that visits are up, the money is in and mountain is not keeping up. You don't need to see exact numbers to know. Last year the record for skier visits was broken TWICE. This year they broke it again already.

For "quality" I'm sure Hawk has a lot to add on how snow is made, gun types, ratios, etc, but as a skier if you ski some of our local competitors then ski ours you can tell from the user experience. There is no comparison. It's not even close. Hell, if Killington is making poor quality snow and ours is the best as it is written in the books of how to make snow then I wish we would degrade the snow being made at SB. Then we should go out, find the person who wrote this book and send them skidding down OGs ice wall in their underwear.

HowieT2
02-05-2014, 09:03 AM
Another thing to point out is that the way the lift system is set up is kind of unique. At lp, it is a hub and spoke system. This works great for us regulars when the whole system is running, because we don't have to go down to the base to ride the quads. I think this is better than the way other mountains have it, where you have to go all the way down to the base to get a lift to the top. But when one or more of the upper mtn lifts aren't running, like castle rock hasn't because of the lack of natural snow, it places an increased burden on the base quads such that you have increased lift lines. So what's an advantage in normal operations becomes a liability when there is an issue with one or more of the spokes.
What can the mtn do about that? Increase uphill capacity from the base, which is exactly what they are doing with a new vh quad. Am I the only one who thinks this will be a huge improvement and precisely what is needed to address the lift line issue.

chrisinvermont
02-05-2014, 09:54 AM
he said the nrx hasn't been a problem since they fixed the issue that arose before Xmas. So I am at a loss to understand all the complaints about it on here.

NRX was down at least 2 days last week, maybe 3. It was even mentioned in the snow report that they were trying to get it up and running.

s_angel0
02-05-2014, 10:35 AM
Curious as to why quad packs are receiving the brunt of the complaints...what about the 4-20s passes? not as significant an impact?

HowieT2
02-05-2014, 10:53 AM
I have asked this question and from People who work at the mountain and from my own inquiries arond the mountain there is no denying that the quad packs have increased the skier visits. I do not know the numbers but have heard that is was significant. It's funny you say that becase everyone i know and everyone I have talk to that has a paper ticket confirmed to me that they bought a quad pack so I feel that my obsevation is correct.

Yeah but that doesn't mean those people are skiing at the mountain because of the quad pack. I have personally 5-6 friends who bought quad packs, but they were going to ski the mtn regardless. They are saving some coin, and sv is getting cash flow, but I don't know how many skiers it's adding. I'm sure it's some, no denying that, but not sure how significant. Skier visits in General have been going up, before the quad pack. They certainly have nothing to do with increasing season ticket sales and blazers.
I think the definitive number is skier visits, and while that has risen, I don't know that the rate of increase changed dramatically with the introduction of the quad packs last year. And when looking at the numbers, remember that they also introduced the 420s pass at the same time and that was popular.

And growth is good if the infrastructure is built to handle it. So we get a new quad next season, and then I'd bet they build another phase of real estate and a new lodge/improved valley house.

And it's snowing, so it's all good fellas. Perchance castle rock is open this weekend??? I'd be happy with a hike over.

Go Figure
02-05-2014, 12:34 PM
Bravo is down yet again. Valley house spinning.

So it's all good fellas.

jwt
02-05-2014, 01:11 PM
Yeah but that doesn't mean those people are skiing at the mountain because of the quad pack. I have personally 5-6 friends who bought quad packs, but they were going to ski the mtn regardless. They are saving some coin, and sv is getting cash flow, but I don't know how many skiers it's adding. I'm sure it's some, no denying that, but not sure how significant. Skier visits in General have been going up, before the quad pack. They certainly have nothing to do with increasing season ticket sales and blazers.
I think the definitive number is skier visits, and while that has risen, I don't know that the rate of increase changed dramatically with the introduction of the quad packs last year. And when looking at the numbers, remember that they also introduced the 420s pass at the same time and that was popular.

And growth is good if the infrastructure is built to handle it. So we get a new quad next season, and then I'd bet they build another phase of real estate and a new lodge/improved valley house.

And it's snowing, so it's all good fellas. Perchance castle rock is open this weekend??? I'd be happy with a hike over.

'Next year'? I bet we don't see that until 16/17 season - the environmental issues ( I know, there are really none) and the permitting process ( regulation) have probably quadrupled since Slide Brook was conceived - and if anyone recalls, that took a huge amount of time from application to useable.

We have people on this list concerned with one or two trees getting iced or cut by skis - when the entire ski industry takes up maybe .5% of all federal land MAYBE less! So when you have paid position in both state and federal government whose job it is to make these things tough to do - 2 years from application is not out of the question.

I just can't imagine why they don't extend it down to below VH and be rid of the gridlock. I know there are buildings we all want to save, but that walk up keep the lines at SB longer. Even the old Spring Fling chair base would be an improvement.

I've mentioned this a long time ago, but with a 5 year plan outlined, why not sell bonds from those of us who live or have second homes here to fund the build out? Seems K-Mart did that in the 80's with success ( although I am not certain of that) - they were selling 10 or 15 yr. bonds and paying a low rate of return plus lifetime or 10 yr. passes. . . . . . . . .. . .

Go Figure
02-05-2014, 02:07 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDD, Valley House has shit the bed, have a nice walk to HG from the base.

Go Figure
02-05-2014, 02:26 PM
'Next year'? I bet we don't see that until 16/17 season - the environmental issues ( I know, there are really none) and the permitting process ( regulation) have probably quadrupled since Slide Brook was conceived - and if anyone recalls, that took a huge amount of time from application to useable.

We have people on this list concerned with one or two trees getting iced or cut by skis - when the entire ski industry takes up maybe .5% of all federal land MAYBE less! So when you have paid position in both state and federal government whose job it is to make these things tough to do - 2 years from application is not out of the question.

I just can't imagine why they don't extend it down to below VH and be rid of the gridlock. I know there are buildings we all want to save, but that walk up keep the lines at SB longer. Even the old Spring Fling chair base would be an improvement.

I've mentioned this a long time ago, but with a 5 year plan outlined, why not sell bonds from those of us who live or have second homes here to fund the build out? Seems K-Mart did that in the 80's with success ( although I am not certain of that) - they were selling 10 or 15 yr. bonds and paying a low rate of return plus lifetime or 10 yr. passes. . . . . . . . .. . .

Lift was never promised for next year and I have not seen any notice of Local or Act 250 permit apps yet.
The gridlock clusterfuck would increase if another lift loaded from the same spot. Open your eyes and take a good look at the space. Also the Spring Fling site is an even longer walk. How about the unfit folks skiing remember to turn right onto Coffee Run or left when they see the Valley House lodge. Otherwise it is a quick <minute walk up the hill. It would also [if this crappy Steins spring skiing stays the norm] make a decent spring venue[if they wouldn't make you leave the skiing and go to GH/CRP for food and drinks.
You can all forget the early Summit V dream of tearing down the Valley House as the reality that the Gate House is way too small to accomodate the crowds. They also squandered the best real estate available for a new base lodge [like a gate house lodge you can see gatehouse trails from] with the sprawled out farm and school Houses. Only spot left is in front of the Village Double and with only a fixed grip triple for this spot it would be a pain in the foot for all of the folks who can't walk uphill as it is.[ya know to struggle back up to gatehouse lift after a burger and fries]

No intelligent investor would buy ski area bonds. And look what happened to most of the "lifetime" pass holders at Killington [and here for that matter].

ThinkSno
02-05-2014, 04:01 PM
AAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDD, Valley House has shit the bed, have a nice walk to HG from the base.

Interestingly the SB webcams are all frozen too....

angler
02-05-2014, 07:26 PM
Today is a perfect day to use as a example of what is wrong here. First real powder day and 2 out of three base lifts are down. On another note went to Stowe today and they were blowing snow on trails while it was puking snow. This is what we have been talking about Howie. A mountain that is committed to giving the best product as possible.

Go Figure
02-05-2014, 07:57 PM
Snowmakers here got laid off this week.

angler
02-05-2014, 09:31 PM
Snowmakers here got laid off this week.
And there you have it, .............

HowieT2
02-05-2014, 09:52 PM
'Next year'? I bet we don't see that until 16/17 season - the environmental issues ( I know, there are really none) and the permitting process ( regulation) have probably quadrupled since Slide Brook was conceived - and if anyone recalls, that took a huge amount of time from application to useable.

We have people on this list concerned with one or two trees getting iced or cut by skis - when the entire ski industry takes up maybe .5% of all federal land MAYBE less! So when you have paid position in both state and federal government whose job it is to make these things tough to do - 2 years from application is not out of the question.

I just can't imagine why they don't extend it down to below VH and be rid of the gridlock. I know there are buildings we all want to save, but that walk up keep the lines at SB longer. Even the old Spring Fling chair base would be an improvement.

I've mentioned this a long time ago, but with a 5 year plan outlined, why not sell bonds from those of us who live or have second homes here to fund the build out? Seems K-Mart did that in the 80's with success ( although I am not certain of that) - they were selling 10 or 15 yr. bonds and paying a low rate of return plus lifetime or 10 yr. passes. . . . . . . . .. . .

U might be right, but the application appears to contemplate starting work this spring. Slidebrook was a brand new lift line 2 miles across forest service land. This is just the replacement of an existing lift on private property. U can't really compare replacing a simple relatively short lift, with installing and cutting a lift line for the longest chairlift in the conus. There can't really be any objection to installing the lift, but we shall see.

I agree about bringing the lift down to the base level. The only reason I can think of, is that they have plans for the structure that is in the way. When they were first designing the base, before they built clay brook and gatehouse, the plan was to eliminate the valley house and bring the lift down by the super bravo. That changed when they decided not to demolish the valley house. I sure hope they have some plans for the valley house, because it needs to be updated so it can be better utilized.

HowieT2
02-05-2014, 09:56 PM
Today is a perfect day to use as a example of what is wrong here. First real powder day and 2 out of three base lifts are down. On another note went to Stowe today and they were blowing snow on trails while it was puking snow. This is what we have been talking about Howie. A mountain that is committed to giving the best product as possible.
Can't argue with that.