The mountain post thaw. How is it?

[Juddah]

Was up the 12th and 13th, and had a blast in the soft snow, however in the back of my mind I was dreading the thought of the post thaw conditions.

So now that it's cooled back down to seasonable conditions, just how bad is it? Sheer ice? I assume even with snowmaking and some small hits of natural snow, we're looking at dust on crust for a long while.

I welcome any reports and firsthand experience.

[win]

The trails with snowmaking held up well. Some will need resurfacing and we turned the snowmaking back on yesterday. With cooler temperatures up high we have first been resurfacing Ripcord, Upper Organgrinder, parts of Upper jester and Downspout. We will then focus on lower organgrinder. middle jester, snowball, spring fling and lower hot shot. For the weekend we will also make more snow on Stein's and possibly Murphy's. Over at ME Which Way. Mainsteram and Northstar are where the biggest needs are for snowmaking. The natural trails will need 6-12 inches on top of a very firm base will get them back in shape. Patrol is shovellling on Castlerock to get it prepped for the weekend and the snow that is going to fall.

[Hawk]

Well that is a good honest anwser. Thank you. I guess this will hone my skills so I can be good an ready for Tahoe at the end of the month. See you all this weekend ;-)

[ReefBum]

Some pretty good skiing today on the trails that have had snow making. I thought Heaven's Gate was the place to be, with RC my pick of the day with some bumps and whales from the snow making. Birch was fun as well. Tried one natural snow trail and the cover was way too thin. They are making a lot of snow and hopefully we will get some natural stuff to keep things interesting.

[shadyjay]

Haven't been out since last Friday, with the exception of snowmaking the past 2 nights. Where it is not groomed and no snowmaking has taken place, it's a little slick. It's getting better, but still firm underneath. We've been making quite a bit of snow on Lower OG and it should be in great shape once it's groomed out.

If you're coming up this weekend and haven't been up in a while, use caution on those natural trails. Twist and Moonshine, for example, had many bare spots the other day. Now they're covered up under about 3-4" of snow. A foot+ of new snow would put us in good shape again, 2'+ would be better.

Just keep all that in mind when venturing out, espec if you go into the woods.

[Hawk]

With the wind holds and huge crowds, we did several skining advenures to the outback. The woods are very thin in places and with only a couple of inches of new to hide the uglies, lets just say it was technical and challanging at best. Please be careful when venturing out for your own sake.

On a side note, we were skinning up slidebrook and came across several snow boarders that went out there with no prior experience. They were looking for guidence. I almost sent them down to the brook on purpose but thought better of it. They had no Idea of what they were doing and just laughed it off. I pointed them in the right direction. I have been having this type of encounter alot this year. Maybe time for a rope at the top to ward off the casual snow rider. Just a thought.

[win]

The skiing on the trails with snowmaking is really good. Birch and Sunrise will be groomed our tonight as will Ripcord. We are blowing snow on Steins's all night and tomorrow, so there will be great skiiing under the guns tomorrow.

[Joe Dirt]

why no snowmaking love for Mt Ellen????

[skierdon]

why no snowmaking love for Mt Ellen????

My thoughts exactly.............. snowmaking trails were showing some bare spots last weekend and needed some fresh surface.

[win]

We will be doing a bit more even though we have exceeded the amount we budget annually. At LP we are focused on the spring trails in order to keep going through April. The base we have everywhere is really good, and we are counting on February and March to provide the natural snowfall than normally comes in these months.

[WWF-VT]

FWIW - snow making was in progress on Cliffs today

[Joe Dirt]

We will be doing a bit more even though we have exceeded the amount we budget annually. At LP we are focused on the spring trails in order to keep going through April. The base we have everywhere is really good, and we are counting on February and March to provide the natural snowfall than normally comes in these months.

Thanks win. That's what I figured. It's just tough as a ME Plus passholder to see snowmaking on Ripcord, Steins, Spring Fling, etc when at ME there is much more limited options for soft snow (the new snow on Which Way was much appreciated). I remember in past recoveries that the snowmaking team would hit one side of Elbow and even snake a gun through the woods to hit the rocks on Bravo giving more options.


FWIW - snow making was in progress on Cliffs today

Now that's what I'm talking about!!!! Hope to hit it tomorrow.

[beelze]

We will be doing a bit more even though we have exceeded the amount we budget annually. At LP we are focused on the spring trails in order to keep going through April. The base we have everywhere is really good, and we are counting on February and March to provide the natural snowfall than normally comes in these months.

You are kidding right? The amount of snow blown pre-Xmas week was hardly earth shattering and certainly not more than any other resort in VT or typical year. And then there was the 100 inches during and around the holidays... or was there? As noted by another, little attention to Mt. Ellen (as usual) but really, I've not seen that much going on at Lincoln either. A couple days off N. Lynx, Snowball and SFling busts whats left? And honestly, if I were a North only holder I would be fumed that you pumped your last dollars out on Steins - you didn't even cover up all the grass and dirt off the runout back to N.Ridge the last time there were guns on.

Working on the "spring trails" for April at the expense of Jan/Feb/Mar is .. crazy. Esepcially seeing we almost always hear about declining skier visits, the cost of being open in April, etc, etc. Arg! Blowing snow on Steins so there will be more slush on 4/14? Save the dough for the rest of *both* mountains for the places that need it now and in the next few weeks instead of gambling on lots of natural in Feb and Mar so a handful of people will have an extra w/e in April.

[Benski]

You are kidding right? The amount of snow blown pre-Xmas week was hardly earth shattering and certainly not more than any other resort in VT or typical year. And then there was the 100 inches during and around the holidays... or was there? As noted by another, little attention to Mt. Ellen (as usual) but really, I've not seen that much going on at Lincoln either. A couple days off N. Lynx, Snowball and SFling busts whats left? And honestly, if I were a North only holder I would be fumed that you pumped your last dollars out on Steins - you didn't even cover up all the grass and dirt off the runout back to N.Ridge the last time there were guns on.

Working on the "spring trails" for April at the expense of Jan/Feb/Mar is .. crazy. Esepcially seeing we almost always hear about declining skier visits, the cost of being open in April, etc, etc. Arg! Blowing snow on Steins so there will be more slush on 4/14? Save the dough for the rest of *both* mountains for the places that need it now and in the next few weeks instead of gambling on lots of natural in Feb and Mar so a handful of people will have an extra w/e in April.
The spring trails need more base so there is a added bonus for making snow on those trails.

[win]

Beelze, you need better glasses.

[WWF-VT]

FWIW - plenty of unhappy campers complaining about snow making at a Maine resort that is much more dependent on it....

http://community.sundayriver.com/forum/topics/snowmaking-2

[gostan]

There is a similar post over at Sugarloaf Today website. Let's all hope that February natural snow fall and snow conditions are better than January for all of the NE ski areas.

http://www.sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5760

[HowieT2]

There is a similar post over at Sugarloaf Today website. Let's all hope that February natural snow fall and snow conditions are better than January for all of the NE ski areas.

http://www.sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5760

Ahh this weather blows. Time to work on the bourbon part of my preseason goals.

[Soundrulz]

Following the radar, looks like all the rain (can I mention that word) missed most of SB. Here in Ontario, we got lots of it. Also see a good band of snow in behind this front. Here's to hoping things change after this! We are coming up for a week on Sunday.

[HowieT2]

Following the radar, looks like all the rain (can I mention that word) missed most of SB. Here in Ontario, we got lots of it. Also see a good band of snow in behind this front. Here's to hoping things change after this! We are coming up for a week on Sunday.

unfortunately I think the bulk of the precip is forecasted to fall tonight.

[DIRK PITTS]

History shows that the best early and late season skiing in Vermont is at Mt Ellen
Mt Ellen was called; “The King Of Spring” and for good reason Your Mother Nature rules

Anyone who has spent time skiing the Valley knows this and always looked forward to skiing the soft spring bumps on FIS and Exterminator as well as the other trails at Mt Ellen. After skiing, while soaking up the spring sun, beer flowed and the BBQ was great on the deck of the base lodge. A good time had by all

After acquiring Sugarbush, Win Smith, using his superior wisdom basically legislated that he now ruled and that by his decree, Lincoln Peak had the best early & late conditions. Why ?---- to support his real estate projects at Lincoln Peak.

The problem here is that Mother Nature really does rule. Nothing has changed accept of course pulling away of the support that Mt Ellen needs to function properly Mt Ellen is considered the weak sister, the outpost, out of sight & out of mind and a drain on the purse strings. GMVS gets more TLC than the people who loved to ski Mt Ellen and supported that ski area. Many of those people have left

Mt Ellen has great terrain, is a great place for a family and has a friendly atmosphere that Lincoln Peak simply cannot match. The best thing that could happen to Mt Ellen is for someone to buy it and run the operation as it should be

[Hawk]

I own at LP so I don't have much to say about the ME and being the King of Spring. All I know is that I have fun skiing both. Actually i think there are many other places that have a way better spring sking sceens. Hey it's his place and he does as he sees fit. Whatever as long as lifts spin. Your post will fall on deaf ears as all the other ones before you. Sorry.

[Roadkill]

Is there money left in the snowmaking budget to repair tonight's disaster?

[Hawk]

Is there money left in the snowmaking budget to repair tonight's disaster?

Good question Road Kill. Now that is the real question going forward.

I always hear the ME only people lamenting about the lack of attention. I hate to say it but if you got a full pass then you could ski where the skiing is best on any given day. I ski both with about a 70-30 split with ME on the 30 side. Quite frankly, I think that i would get bored of ME if I skied there any more than that. And as for spring skking, I like the continuous vert of Ripchord, Organgrinder, Stiens and Mall way better than the broken up vert of ME.

[HowieT2]

thaw over. good bye and good riddance.

fwiw-my take on the whole ME neglect issue. If there was demand for development at mellon, one would think it would happen. seems to me, its taking time to sell the 12 units they are building at rice brook. If there was more demand, they would have built the rest of the LP village project already. If there is money to be made building condos at mellon, someone would be doing it. I'm sure SV would like nothing more than to make some money at mellon and put some of it into new facilities there.

back to my snow dance.

[HowieT2]

thaw over. good bye and good riddance.

fwiw-my take on the whole ME neglect issue. If there was demand for development at mellon, one would think it would happen. seems to me, its taking time to sell the 12 units they are building at rice brook. If there was more demand, they would have built the rest of the LP village project already. If there is money to be made building condos at mellon, someone would be doing it. I'm sure SV would like nothing more than to make some money at mellon and put some of it into new facilities there.

back to my snow dance.

[SkiVideoGuy]

Maybe ME needs to be built out in a different way. Terrain Park is over there, why not build a super pipe and more terrain stuff and really make it a snowboard destination mountain? I don't board so that's not coming from my personal point of view but might be something viable. MRG is ski only, what about making ME snowboard only?

I'm not trying to start a fight, just throwing out marketing ideas.

OR

Given the proximity and potential connection to MRG, connect them. I know, tons of business stuff to figure out to make that doable for MRG but it would make ME more viable. Maybe make the interconnect for ME only passholders only? Just thinking out loud here.

Summer Potential - what summer activities would ME support that don't work so well at LP? Might there be a summer angle?

How would any of that affect or shape a residential development at ME? What would make bedrooms viable at ME?

[HowieT2]

I dont know. with the terrain park over there with its dedicated lift, it is a boarding destination already.

I was just commenting on the sentiment expressed above that the powers that be are stupidly neglecting mellon. I'm pretty confident that if they thought they could do something now to develop mellon, they would. and if there was anyone else in a position to do so, who wanted to, that would happen. as it stands, they have a lot of work to do over at LP.

[WWF-VT]

Mt Ellen gets a pretty good crowd of both skiers and snow boarders at the terrain park. The terrain park has gotten accolades from a few magazines and the staff has done a great job with all the jumps, rails and features this season. A superpipe is a big waste of snowmaking $$ and needs expensive equipment to maintain.

I am always amazed that all mountain pass holders will complain about lines at LP on holiday weeks and peak days but don't venture over to Mt Ellen where most lifts are practically ski on most days.

[Tin Woodsman]

As I asked before, is there actually land that Sugarbush owns that can be developed over at ME?

I'm pretty certain that Summit Ventures owns, at a minimum, the land where the parking lots sit at ME. I believe there are other plots further towards the South, sort of downhill and around both the bottom of Sunny D and the old terminus of Lower FIS. Just the parking lots alone, which are rarely if ever full even during the holidays, would suffice. Regardless, that's got to be 10-15 years off in the distance at least. First they need to achieve full build-out at LP with all phases of Rice Brook. If there is sufficient demand thereafter, I guess I could see some developments at ME but it won't ever rival the $100M + they have and will invest in LP Village base.

[Joe Dirt]

Good question Road Kill. Now that is the real question going forward.

I always hear the ME only people lamenting about the lack of attention. I hate to say it but if you got a full pass then you could ski where the skiing is best on any given day. I ski both with about a 70-30 split with ME on the 30 side. Quite frankly, I think that i would get bored of ME if I skied there any more than that. And as for spring skking, I like the continuous vert of Ripchord, Organgrinder, Stiens and Mall way better than the broken up vert of ME.

Hold on. Hawk, so what you are saying is that if I had gotten a full pass, I could ski anywhere? That's brilliant!!! Wish i had known that when i bought my ME pass.
I hate having to ALWAYS lament to the LP folk.


DANG

[win]

Sorry Dirk Pitts. It is not for sale. And yes, there is good real estate value their in the future.

[DIRK PITTS]

Sorry Dirk Pitts. It is not for sale. And yes, there is good real estate value their in the future.

ONE CAN ONLY HOPE!

Anyway, we vote with our $$$$$$$$$$$ and our dollars are no longer being spent at Sugarbush.

We are far from the only people who feel this way ! Most say nothing. I just expressed my frustrations here. It just seems that you are more interested in real estate development than supporting what at one time was a viable ski area and a very enjoyable outdoor experience.

Over & Out.

Dirk

[Xskier]

North is definitely set up much better for both Spring Skiing and the Apre ski experience that goes along with it, but if I owned a condo at South that is where i would want spring skiing to be. Even before Win owned the mountain there were many more condo's at LP.

[gostan]

ONE CAN ONLY HOPE!

Anyway, we vote with our $$$$$$$$$$$ and our dollars are no longer being spent at Sugarbush.

We are far from the only people who feel this way ! Most say nothing. I just expressed my frustrations here. It just seems that you are more interested in real estate development than supporting what at one time was a viable ski area and a very enjoyable outdoor experience.

Over & Out.

DirkHey Dirk,
Aren't you more interested in scuba diving and underwater adventures anyhow? Can I borrow your snorkel for this weekends storm?

[win]

Yes, people are voting with their $$$$$$$$$$. We have had more passholders in each of the past 8 years. Thank you!

[Hawk]

Hold on. Hawk, so what you are saying is that if I had gotten a full pass, I could ski anywhere? That's brilliant!!! Wish i had known that when i bought my ME pass.
I hate having to ALWAYS lament to the LP folk.


DANG
Interesting post dude. Sorry you felt slighted. Not my intension.

[Joe Dirt]

Interesting post dude. Sorry you felt slighted. Not my intension.

Not slighted at all.
Re-read your post, Captain Obvious.
You do know why people buy ME/MEplus passes right???

It's all good. I love LP and ME.
DANG!

[HowieT2]

Interesting post dude. Sorry you felt slighted. Not my intension.

Where you been?

[Hawk]

Not slighted at all.
Re-read your post, Captain Obvious.
You do know why people buy ME/MEplus passes right???

It's all good. I love LP and ME.
DANG!

Yes I do. I guess I don't understand why people buy a discounted pass and then are upset that they are getting something less. That is the deal after all with discounted passes.

[Hawk]

Where you been?

Lake Tahoe for 10 days. Great place out there. It was my first time. We had some bad Sh*# go down but that is a story for the Castlerock Pub some day. See you soon.

[Joe Dirt]

Yes I do. I guess I don't understand why people buy a discounted pass and then are upset that they are getting something less. That is the deal after all with discounted passes.


Fair enough Hawk. I may have been a little harsh in my initial replies. I apologise.
As a ME plus pass holder for 6 yrs, I have never heard any ME pass holder complain about LP being better/getting more attention than ME.
I certainly understand what I am buying. I think most do.
I actually have fun monitoring the daily trail reports for my 5 days at LP.
Oooooo....they groomed Ripcord.......special day at LP.
Oooooo....they made snow on Steins......special day at LP.
You get the picture.

But I do love ME.
And the SB team has done a great job putting a base on a number of ME trails.
I really appreciated the snow making on Cliffs. Such a great run.

I skied this p.m. at ME. Fast and firm on the lower half.
But an inch of creamy powder from top of NR down (not sure about anything off Summit, as I'm a NR lapper).
Bravo and Elbow were fun.
Any new snow will make things really fun.

All the best to the rest of your season.
I'm an optimist. I see us all doing laps on Steins in May.
DANG!!!!!

[Chewbarka]

Yes, people are voting with their $$$$$$$$$$. We have had more passholders in each of the past 8 years. Thank you!

Just wondering if when you refer to passholders do you mean season passholders or do you include day passes as well?

[win]

I was referring to those buying season passes. This year we have also seen a nice increase in people buying day tickets. I think the early December snow set the tone for the winter.

[win]

There will be a lot groomed for this weekend.

[southvillager]

There will be a lot groomed for this weekend.

That is good news. We have invited 3 different families up to stay with us over the vacation week. Nearly all of the guests are intermediate (at best) skiers that only ski 4 or 5 days per year. Groomed trail skiing is the only experience they take away.

[win]

Same grooming plan tomorrow as today. We are grooming Stein's first thing and then will be blowing snow on it, so it should be sweet first things in the morning.

Winds might be an issue tomorrow. Let's hope not. Will all the lift running tonight everyone was spread all over the mountain.